QUOTE(Skidd Chung @ Apr 28 2015, 10:44 PM)
3 days is not enough to make a mod?Apparently many of the USD 99 mods are made in less than 1 day. Yet, is it even possible people are so stupid to pay 99 bucks. I meant quality mods aren't made in 3 days.
The market has no time to expand and attract? Sorry, the workshop wasn't launched 3 days ago. It has been there for A LONG TIME. Even during its pre-paid era, the quality is so much worse compared to Nexus. Its so obvious as to why.Market was only there for 3-4 days. Workshop is just a collection of mods. What is lacking is the data or market to look into to see if it was worth the effort to make new mods for the market to be sold. Is the audience ready to pay so and so for this etc. There is no data to analyse if the mod market is a feasible scene to invest in.
There is no data or market transactions to observe, no one knows if the market is big enough to venture into. Apparently Valve already examined the market, before making a statement that they don't know what they were doing. You can head to the announcement page, and read for it yourself.They had the data for CS:GO and DOTA2. It is a major success. They pitched the idea to Bethesda to see if they are interested in the idea. Their data is solid. Community content creation sparked an entire industry of professional modders that put their creation up for scrutiny to be accepted in game as an item to be traded. The modders made a living on these creations and their share is 25%.
Potential is when the market stays up and let people start making new mods to be soldApparently despite all the potentials
a) stolen items were sold
b) subpar quality mods were sold (again, look at the quality check post)
c) somehow contradicts your statement that 3 days is not enough.Again the problem of implementation rather than concept. Implementations I agree was haphazard and too little was done to police it at least in an official sense. A green light pre-listing would be better. It certainly can be improved to ensue the markets success.
New complete, original mods that is not piggy bagging on someone else assets. sorry, care to explain how this works? Because right now in Skyrim, I can think of NO METHODS as of such. Please elaborate, because you made the statement, the onus is on you to prove such a thing can be done. I'm already thinking of Chesko's "fishing mods". Sorry, not to say fully independent mods don't exist, but I fail to see how Chesko in paid version would even find ways to make a brand new FNIS, a brand new SKSE into his mod without breaking other mods. Again, the ball is on your feet.I did put some examples of original songs, new voice overs. When I said not piggy bagging, it means instead of using SKYUI creators unofficial patch, they make their own patch integrated with the mod. They don't borrow assets that belongs to other mods.
Market forces has not decided on the potential mods the market can attract. "Lord GabeN" disagrees. He even posted in reddit "earning 10k, but losing 1m is stupid business". He said that, not me. The market has spoken. You make 10k, but lose 1million. How can you justify that as a GOOD business move, please explain. That is not market forces, that is just a PR disaster. Gabe said in 3 days, 10k in transactions happen. But it was disproportionate to the amount of complains he receives that is increasing the traffic in his company email system. The 1 million is not actual figures, just a figure to compare the difference.
You don't need passion for Skyrim or any game to be able to contribute, you just need the talent and incentive to do so. [/colory
[COLOR=red]And then, what happens? People pirate, copy, steal your work, post it as a free, and you can do NOTHING. Did Steam did anything to protect their modders? NO. Did Bethesda did anything? No. They censor, censor, censor and plug their ears and scream "la la la la la" while the shitstorm raged. How would that even contribute to modders even making mods, as of matter of fact, there were modders on Nexus that hid their files out of GENUINE FEAR that their mods would have been stolen, and that fear is not unfounded when there were NUMEROUS stolen mods and again, Valve-Bethesda DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
Please tell me how is this an incentive? You are absolutely right on this point. Since there is no proper response on how this can be managed, a lot of talents would be discouraged to put their work up for sale if it can be pirated. More DRM perhaps? Hopefully not but definitely something has to be done to prevent this.
I never denied the shenanigans of Valve, from its banning of users to censorship.Pretty ironic statement given the poor examples (or lack of thereof) to even justify how users and modders even benefit.How is it ironic statement? I never defended Valve for the treatment of its customers or the bad policy of 7 day market bans.
I am for a market driven mod where the incentives of providing paid content would entice future professional talent to invest and make quality mods for the users.
Modders get paid for their work.
Users get a bigger selection of mods to their liking.
Paid incentive will attract higher talents to invest into mods.
If you want quality mods and support, you have to be ready to pay for it. The market will show how much the audience is ready to pay for it when more mods hit the market. As the market grows, so does the user base and the modders themselves.
More mods, more users, more content.
sorry, i can never agree that paid mods = more mods.
Yet, is it even possible people are so stupid to pay 99 bucks. I meant quality mods aren't made in 3 days. Exactly, so how can you guarantee that mods that takes more than 3 days to make are quality mods? Mind you, the mods that are posted up in the paid market, there were those that were necroed right after inactive development. They were given a month's time in notice (as very clearly evident in Chesko's letter). So one month equates to 2 code change in SKYUI, which then proceeded to get behind a paywall that's USD 1.00. That's USD0.50 per code updated, with no additional functionality on top of the still some things broken in SKYUI. That's expensive, and does not bring quality. So where's the quality?
They had the data for CS:GO and DOTA2. It is a major success. They pitched the idea to Bethesda to see if they are interested in the idea. Their data is solid. Community content creation sparked an entire industry of professional modders that put their creation up for scrutiny to be accepted in game as an item to be traded. The modders made a living on these creations and their share is 25%.and yet you said they had no data. So what are you basing your arguments on?
Again the problem of implementation rather than concept. Implementations I agree was haphazard and too little was done to police it at least in an official sense. A green light pre-listing would be better. It certainly can be improved to ensue the markets success.Even if its green-lighted like the greenlight alpha access scam on Steam, there is no guarantee that the mods are of high quality. In the 7 days grace period, nobody can actually even access the files, and despite things were stolen, it was only viewable after the 7 days assuming you purchased. They screwed up on the implementation, they screwed up on the concept. One game's success does NOT dictate as a success for another game, in this case Skyrim.
I did put some examples of original songs, new voice overs. When I said not piggy bagging, it means instead of using SKYUI creators unofficial patch, they make their own patch integrated with the mod. They don't borrow assets that belongs to other mods.Sorry, did you know that when you sign up for Steam Workshop upload, you're basically signing off everything to Valve and Bethesda, right?
That means, you cannot claim copyright, you cannot claim ownership. With nothing, how can you say those assets are yours when you've signed over EVERYTHING. that's right, repeat after me, EVERYTHING. That's in their TOS.
That is not market forces, that is just a PR disaster. Gabe said in 3 days, 10k in transactions happen. But it was disproportionate to the amount of complains he receives that is increasing the traffic in his company email system. The 1 million is not actual figures, just a figure to compare the difference. I still see it exactly as market forces, because the market reacted so strongly that Valve lost MORE money trying to patch up the shitstorm over the cash they earnt, and quickly realised that they aren't earning anything. Therefore the market HAS SPOKEN NO PAID MODS, ON ANY GROUND, EVER!
You are absolutely right on this point. Since there is no proper response on how this can be managed, a lot of talents would be discouraged to put their work up for sale if it can be pirated. More DRM perhaps? Hopefully not but definitely something has to be done to prevent this. Of course this is a fact. So it just proves that PAID MODS = FAIL, and should not be implemented in any way. It is a capitalistic MYTH. THIS IS NOT THE WAY FORWARD.
Users get a bigger selection of mods to their liking.
Paid incentive will attract higher talents to invest into mods. You see, yet again you're stating one thing, and then the other which doesn't correlate. With the 3 day example of so much theft, people actually closed up their mods, not willing to sell, let alone share. The amount of mods actually SHRANK. HIGH QUALITY ONES. So how can you say that users get bigger selection of mods, when original mod authors are already closing, forcing users to pay for BROKEN SHITTY MODS which are WAY OVERPRICED? What "selection" is there? NO SELECTION, NO CHOICES. This point has been talked so much the dead horse is already beaten so many times. IT just doesn't work and will NEVER advance the modding scene.
If you want quality mods and support, you have to be ready to pay for it. The market will show how much the audience is ready to pay for it when more mods hit the market. As the market grows, so does the user base and the modders themselves.
More mods, more users, more content.apparently we didn't even have to pay, so why create something to pay just to satisfy the minority few? Let alone, the fact that we managed to kill off a cancer in Skyrim, that is PAID MODDING.
If your PAID modding is just limited to arts and songs, i'm sorry, that's just too limited of a mod. Look at games like Sleeping dogs. Their only mod is just a re-skin, even when people tried to pay, all they get is a low quality re-skin. Is that even worth paying? I don't think so. Are the skins in MOBA like LoL, HoTs, worth paying? questionable but I still don't think so that it would advance the modding scene at all. In the case of DoTA, the only thing it has accelerated is making Valve richer at the expense of the users.
in fact that you said the people who bought the USD99 apple are stupid, I would say the same for those who bought the skins in DoTA. But what makes the point that paid modding is not the way to go, is that in the case of Skyrim, anyone can make a CRAPPY skin (its quite easy apparently) and yet nothing can be done to halt these subpar quality items. NOTHING.
So how can Paid modding be good? THe answer is obvious: IT NEVER DOES.