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> Smoking in public, Malaysians think it's their right

zamorin
post Nov 17 2018, 09:19 PM

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QUOTE(Sammie7 @ Nov 17 2018, 09:17 PM)
I was talking about smoking all the while. Indeed I didn't realize you were only focus on vaping. My apologies.

But vape got nicotine?
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You can get vape juice with or without Nicotine. it ranges from 0 mg to 24 mg. Another thing is it has no second hand smoke issues like cigarettes.

Anyway this is a long term study by the National Health Service (UK):

https://www.nhs.uk/news/heart-and-lungs/lon...landmark-study/

Long-term vaping 'far safer than smoking' says 'landmark' study

Conclusion

This cross-sectional study aimed to assess whether there are differences in levels of nicotine and toxic chemicals in cigarette smokers, and former or current smokers who are also long-term users of e-cigarettes or NRT.

E-cigarettes are designed for users to inhale nicotine without most of the harmful effects of smoking. There has been much discussion over the benefits of vaping over conventional smoking methods and this is the first long-term study assessing these effects.

The main findings are not that surprising – former smokers who have now switched to using e-cigarettes or NRT only have significantly lower levels of toxins than those who continue to smoke regular cigarettes.

However, the study has limitations.

while attempts were made to control for confounders, it is possible that other unmeasured factors are influencing the results
this was a self-selected sample and therefore findings may not be generalisable to the whole population of former or current smokers
indirect exposure to cigarette smoking could not be accounted for in this research
the study is not able to assess the comparative effectiveness of NRT or e-cigarettes as aids to smoking cessation
The findings of this study do appear to reassure that use of e-cigarettes and nicotine replacement therapy – while continuing to provide nicotine – can reduce exposure to toxic chemicals that can lead to cancer in cigarette smokers.

However, this is only if you completely stop smoking – using e-cigarettes or NRT while continuing to smoke won’t help.

Smokers who want to stop smoking can get help from NHS stop smoking services, which can reduce their risk of smoking-related disease and death.

This post has been edited by zamorin: Nov 17 2018, 09:26 PM
amir.asyraf
post Nov 18 2018, 01:09 AM

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QUOTE(zamorin @ Nov 17 2018, 07:11 PM)
Source: Nicotine Vs Caffeine/Sugar. The other 2 ingredients in vape juice are food addictives found in many common food items - Propylene Glycol (PG) and/or Vegetable Glycerin (VG) and flavoring.

Nicotine No Worse Than Cup Of Coffee - Report

https://news.sky.com/story/nicotine-no-wors...report-10349589

BTW Nicotine is not harmful, it is only addictive (its the 2nd most addictive substance known I think)...like caffeine.
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Haha you've got to be shitting me. sky.com? By source I mean actual, credible, academic source. A paper or a journal, not an article.

And it says there NO WORSE than caffeine, not in any way 'healthier'.

Also, nicotine IS harmful, not just addictive. I can't believe anyone can just spout an uneducated statement like that.

This post has been edited by amir.asyraf: Nov 18 2018, 01:20 AM
lowya
post Nov 18 2018, 09:38 AM

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QUOTE(zamorin @ Nov 17 2018, 03:08 PM)
WTF? They must be kidding. This is the smoking zone in Penang. If they are going to do this, chances are smokers are most likely going to ignore such zones.
[attachmentid=10109201]

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well done Penang! rclxms.gif
zamorin
post Nov 18 2018, 10:00 AM

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QUOTE(amir.asyraf @ Nov 18 2018, 01:09 AM)
Haha you've got to be shitting me. sky.com? By source I mean actual, credible, academic source. A paper or a journal, not an article.

And it says there NO WORSE than caffeine, not in any way 'healthier'.

Also, nicotine IS harmful, not just addictive. I can't believe anyone can just spout an uneducated statement like that.
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To repeat (you claim the article is not credible yet you use its conclusion):

QUOTE(zamorin @ Nov 17 2018, 09:04 PM)
Sky can't be trusted to state general facts about caffeine/nicotine now?
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Go learn English. I said it's safer than drinking coffee not caffeine and I specifically listed caffeine and sugar separately because I thought those who are not well versed in English will not get easily confused. That didn't help you though.

Did you miss out the other study that I posted done by the National Health Services (UK)?

Go get yourself educated about Nicotine before posting rubbish. It is only as harmful as it is addictive. Common food stuff we eat everyday are also addictive like sugar and caffeine but you wouldn't consider that harmful when it is more not less harmful and you discount the positive benefits of Nicotine like; Some studies suggest that nicotine may improve memory and concentration.

There are no such benefits when it comes to sugar.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/...cotine-all-bad/

Psychologists and tobacco-addiction specialists, including some in world-leading laboratories in Britain, think it's now time to distinguish clearly between nicotine and smoking. The evidence shows smoking is the killer, not nicotine, they say.

"We need to de-demonize nicotine," said Ann McNeill, a professor of tobacco addiction and the Institute of Psychiatry, Psychology and Neuroscience at King's College London, who has spent her career researching ways to help people quit smoking.

This post has been edited by zamorin: Nov 18 2018, 10:29 AM
zamorin
post Nov 18 2018, 10:30 AM

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QUOTE(lowya @ Nov 18 2018, 09:38 AM)
well done Penang!  rclxms.gif
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You gonna support something built for smokers that most smokers won't be inclined to use? In other words; wasting tax payers money.
amir.asyraf
post Nov 18 2018, 01:42 PM

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QUOTE(zamorin @ Nov 18 2018, 10:00 AM)
To repeat (you claim the article is not credible yet you use its conclusion):
Go learn English. I said it's safer than drinking coffee not caffeine and I specifically listed caffeine and sugar separately because I thought those who are not well versed in English will not get easily confused. That didn't help you though.

Did you miss out the other study that I posted done by the National Health Services (UK)?

Go get yourself educated about Nicotine before posting rubbish. It is only as harmful as it is addictive. Common food stuff we eat everyday are also addictive like sugar and caffeine but you wouldn't consider that harmful when it is more not less harmful and you discount the positive benefits of Nicotine like; Some studies suggest that nicotine may improve memory and concentration.

There are no such benefits when it comes to sugar.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/...cotine-all-bad/

Psychologists and tobacco-addiction specialists, including some in world-leading laboratories in Britain, think it's now time to distinguish clearly between nicotine and smoking. The evidence shows smoking is the killer, not nicotine, they say.

"We need to de-demonize nicotine," said Ann McNeill, a professor of tobacco addiction and the Institute of Psychiatry, Psychology and Neuroscience at King's College London, who has spent her career researching ways to help people quit smoking.
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1) I didn't use the article to support any conclusion. What are you even talking about? I was pointing out the article in no way stated it was healthier, as opposed to what you stated.

2) You did not "specifically listed" caffeine and sugar separately.

Your word:

QUOTE
Source: Nicotine Vs Caffeine/Sugar.


Well-versed in English my ass.

3) Your sky.com 'source' refers to the caffeine in the coffee, not the coffee itself. Obviously you only read the headline and the summary.

4) Your NHS source:

Again, articles are not valid source.
It wasn't done by NHS at all.
It's a cross-sectional study. In the world of scientific evidence, that's weak and holds very little ground. Cross-sectional studies are only a step above animal trials.

5) Again, an article. Scientific American is NOT an academic source! Can't even find citation or reference to any study.

No shit taking safe dose of nicotine is not harmful. You can take any poison in the world in safe dosage. "Nicotine is safe as long as you take it in safe dosage" No shit you can take cyanide in safe dosage and not die.

6) Since you can't figure out what would be a valid source:

Harmful effects of nicotine - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4363846/
Drugs of abuse and blood-brain barrier endothelial dysfunction: A focus on the role of oxidative stress - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4794105/
A Report of the Surgeon General - Nicotine - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK294308/ (Book, but is loaded with citations)
The effects of nicotine on human fetal development. - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27297020



saikia2046
post Nov 18 2018, 01:47 PM

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[eyes start to tear, and suddenly their noses start to run]


Kiasu level can fight singaporean. If cigarette smoke can cause eyes to tear, don't walk outdoor, because car exhaust smoke lagi power until sky also can become blur.
zamorin
post Nov 18 2018, 02:17 PM

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QUOTE(amir.asyraf @ Nov 18 2018, 01:42 PM)
1) I didn't use the article to support any conclusion. What are you even talking about? I was pointing out the article in no way stated it was healthier, as opposed to what you stated.

If you thought the article was not credible, then why quote it?, here:
QUOTE(amir.asyraf @ Nov 18 2018, 01:09 AM)
And it says there NO WORSE than caffeine, not in any way 'healthier'.
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QUOTE(amir.asyraf @ Nov 18 2018, 01:42 PM)
2) You did not "specifically listed" caffeine and sugar separately.
I did, I specifically separated the 2 of the main harmful things in coffee among others (Caffeine/Sugar):
QUOTE(zamorin @ Nov 17 2018, 07:11 PM)
Source: Nicotine Vs Caffeine/Sugar. The other 2 ingredients in vape juice are food addictives found in many common food items - Propylene Glycol (PG) and/or Vegetable Glycerin (VG) and flavoring.
--------------------------------------
QUOTE(amir.asyraf @ Nov 18 2018, 01:42 PM)
3) Your sky.com 'source' refers to the caffeine in the coffee, not the coffee itself. Obviously you only read the headline and the summary.
Yes, that is just Nicotine Vs Caffeine and the issues of sugar excluded and you are obviously assuming.
---------------------------------------
QUOTE(amir.asyraf @ Nov 18 2018, 01:42 PM)
4) Your NHS source:

Again, articles are not valid source.
It wasn't done by NHS at all.
It's a cross-sectional study. In the world of scientific evidence, that's weak and holds very little ground. Cross-sectional studies are only a step above animal trials.
Bullshit, that is specifically a long-term scientific study with 25+ years of clinical trials. The longest study ever done on this issue. Cross-sectional studies are weak? and the Institutions/Researchers that did the research are not valid as a source? They listed their source in that article:

The study was carried out by researchers from a number of institutions, including University College London, and the Roswell Park Cancer Institute and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (both in the US). Funding was provided by Cancer Research UK.

The study was published in the peer-reviewed journal: Annals of Internal Medicine.


The study, involving 181 smokers or ex-smokers, has been described as "landmark" as it is thought to be the first (or at least one of the first) looking at long-term vaping outcomes in "real world" users. Previous studies of this kind have mainly relied on laboratory equipment, or animal research, to estimate the long-term effects of e-cigarettes.

QUOTE(amir.asyraf @ Nov 18 2018, 01:42 PM)
5) Again, an article. Scientific American is NOT an academic source!  Can't even find citation or reference to any study.
Any evidence you have to contradict the article in Scientific American?
QUOTE(amir.asyraf @ Nov 18 2018, 01:42 PM)
No shit taking safe dose of nicotine is not harmful. You can take any poison in the world in safe dosage. "Nicotine is safe as long as you take it in safe dosage" No shit you can take cyanide in safe dosage and not die.
That was my point. The comparisson was between Nicotine Vs Coffee (Caffeine and sugar) NOT unsafe levels of Nicotine Vs Coffee or vice versa.
QUOTE(amir.asyraf @ Nov 18 2018, 01:42 PM)
6) Since you can't figure out what would be a valid source:

Harmful effects of nicotine - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4363846/
Drugs of abuse and blood-brain barrier endothelial dysfunction: A focus on the role of oxidative stress - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4794105/
A Report of the Surgeon General - Nicotine - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK294308/ (Book, but is loaded with citations)
The effects of nicotine on human fetal development. - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27297020
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You do realize the comparison was between Nicotine and coffee? The dangers from Nicotine in cigarette are insignificant compared to the other chemicals and carcinogens found in cigarettes including Carbon monoxide, Tar, Arsenic, Ammonia, Acetone, Toluene, Methylamine and 2000 over other chemicals and that is backed up by NHS and the scientific body. I am not even including the other positives like replacement agent for cessation of smoking by making it safer (ie:-vaping), negating the powers/profits of Big tobacco to dictate policies etc. For any studies done on the harmful effects of Nicotine, you can find the same studies on caffeine and sugar. From your own source:

Sugar Industry and Coronary Heart Disease Research

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5099084/

Sugar consumption, metabolic disease and obesity: The state of the controversy
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4822166/

Caffeine Effects on the Central Nervous System and Behavioral Effects Associated with Caffeine Consumption
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK202225/

This post has been edited by zamorin: Nov 18 2018, 03:22 PM
lowya
post Nov 19 2018, 07:35 AM

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QUOTE(zamorin @ Nov 18 2018, 10:30 AM)
You gonna support something built for smokers that most smokers won't be inclined to use? In other words; wasting tax payers money.
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yes, cause the law will take care of those you described.
zamorin
post Nov 19 2018, 08:40 AM

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QUOTE(lowya @ Nov 19 2018, 07:35 AM)
yes, cause the law will take care of those you described.
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Then we are kind of safe plus there are many ways to smoke without being detected. Just look at the smoking zone in Penang. How likely is it that there is only one smoker there? The others are obviously not using it.

This post has been edited by zamorin: Nov 19 2018, 08:41 AM
TiramisuCoffee
post Nov 24 2018, 12:36 PM

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Vaping also ban la!

https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2018...ping-in-public/
mgen
post Nov 24 2018, 09:00 PM

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Smoking is an addiction that is corrosive on lungs and other organs. It is very hard to give it up. And dramatically when the smoker wants to do so, that is the time s.he gets overcome by smoke-induced illnesses from years of puffing. The first sign is out-of-breath; the second, chest pains; the third, weakening eyesight.

And i am just writing this so that 'mgen' is last poster in first four topics.

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