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cannyeo
post Mar 24 2015, 09:38 AM

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QUOTE(MeToo @ Mar 23 2015, 07:27 PM)
1. Dont bother about my current salary, we discuss what they are willing to pay me to get me.
2. If you gonna adjust to a +10/15% of my current salary. Good luck in recruiting me, infact good luck in recruiting ANY talents at all.
3. If someone will jump company for 10%, I'm not sure if the new company should want them.
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You either sound like a C-level executive or you've never hire anyone before.

No offence intended.
SomaCruz89
post Mar 24 2015, 10:20 AM

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Normally HR ask for the payslips to verify and calculate your base, fixed allowance, contractual bonus, performance bonus...then offer you 15-20% more
MeToo
post Mar 24 2015, 10:52 AM

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QUOTE(cannyeo @ Mar 24 2015, 09:38 AM)
You either sound like a C-level executive or you've never hire anyone before.

No offence intended.
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Um.. I'm not sure what C-Level is according to your interpretation. I only report to the MD, not the Chairman... that makes me M-Level exec?

The last time I moved to a new company, it was about an 80% jump in salary though. I pity those who need to find a new job for 10%, I (maybe my industry?) kinda average more then 10% annualy in increment...


thoyol
post Mar 24 2015, 11:01 AM

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QUOTE(cannyeo @ Mar 24 2015, 09:29 AM)
Thumbs up for you! You explain so well! heres a

user posted image
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Thanks!! wink.gif wink.gif
thoyol
post Mar 24 2015, 11:20 AM

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QUOTE(knwong @ Mar 23 2015, 05:39 PM)
Liz Ryan article is very empowering for the candidates but it also doesn't highlight the limitation for the company. I believed at her level, most of the position that she been hired for is for Director/Head role which you can bargain for what you want. But for the remaining 90% of the talent pool in the market, it doesnt represent the reality of the hiring practice.

Like what @cannyeo said, in Malaysia either you join a SME, startup or top management level, you are dictated by the norm of hiring practice. Provide the docs for proof.
cannyeo
post Mar 24 2015, 11:35 AM

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QUOTE(MeToo @ Mar 24 2015, 11:52 AM)
Um.. I'm not sure what C-Level is according to your interpretation. I only report to the MD, not the Chairman... that makes me M-Level exec?

The last time I moved to a new company, it was about an 80% jump in salary though. I pity those who need to find a new job for 10%, I (maybe my industry?) kinda average more then 10% annualy in increment...
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C-level stands for Chief level. In a normal organisation hierarchy, CEO is the MD. Unless its an investment entity, you have CEOs below MD no 1, 2, 3.

Those who call themselves MD are the founder/owner/shareholder/stockholder of the company. Those titled C-executive are under payroll.
TSHappyHampers
post Mar 24 2015, 01:04 PM

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Hmm... during job applications, HR already asked for current and expected salary, and when go for interview ask to bring along latest payslip usually.

Does HR usually need to call current employer before or after offering the job or after sign offer letter ?

QUOTE(thoyol @ Mar 24 2015, 09:20 AM)
Why HR asked for payslip? It is as a proof for the payment that you been receiving/claimed to receive. I as a HR personnel received tonnes of false claims on candidates salary. Some lump in their non contractual bonus, their medical, their additional EPF, their OT, their travel allowance, their claim in their salary. Is it justifiable?

First, lets understand about the mechanism of salary structure. Each company has a placement/budget in the market salary benchmark. Either they are a @P50 (average paymaster - 50% of the market), @P75 (top 25% paymaster) or @P90 (top 10% paymaster). Each company must set their salary bracket based on their strategy and they have to adhere to it in order not to burst their manpower budget.

Company also have an internal benchmark in order to ensure that an internal equity is not disrupted by hiring a new person. Imagine you have 10 people with 5 years of experience, earning RM 5k in your company and suddenly the manager hire a new person with similar years of experience but earning RM 7k.

People do share about salary irregardless how much we emphasize about P&C of it. Don't you think it will cause an uproar?

2nd - Don't be worried about your payslips copy. You indicate your expectation earlier in your CV and if the company is willing to accommodate to your expectation, they will call you in. A good recruiter will be able to tell if the company able to afford you or not instead of sending you blindly for the interview. The recruiter need to indicate to the hiring manager about the candidate expectation as they supposed to perform the first round of interview with the candidate.

3rd - If you already provide your expectation, passed the interview, fit the bill but your expected salary is higher compared to the rest? This is where HR use your payslips to justify to hiring manager/management on either upgrading your level/position/job grade for a higher salary. You negotiate your salary during the interview or after the interview with HR.

4th - For reference check, normally HR don't check about salary as it is mainly about performance/work related issues. Furthermore HR don't normally call the other company HR for reference unless there is a red flag in your CV/documents such as falsifying documents. HR usually called your ex-supervisor/manager/colleagues to check about your performance.
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This post has been edited by HappyHampers: Mar 24 2015, 01:11 PM
cannyeo
post Mar 24 2015, 01:33 PM

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QUOTE(HappyHampers @ Mar 24 2015, 02:04 PM)
Hmm... during job applications, HR already asked for current and expected salary, and when go for interview ask to bring along latest payslip usually.

Does HR usually need to call current employer before or after offering the job or after sign offer letter ?
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It depends, if there's some information they would like to verify themselves, they will call your current employer prior to the interview.

Case Scenario 1 (True Story):
There was a candidate once apply for the position - Senior POS Consultant. He has a good employment track record according to the CV, but when I call to his current employer. The HR told me this person has been terminated due to thievery(He stole an Iphone from his CO-worker, the HR scheduled a SPOT CHECK and found the phone in his car).

For high level position, especially those that pays 5 figure, we will definitely call your past employers. For MNCs, its their SOP to do reference check, you cant avoid, some treat it as a formality, but for some its a necessity.

HeReLiSm
post Mar 24 2015, 02:05 PM

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QUOTE(thoyol @ Mar 24 2015, 09:20 AM)
Why HR asked for payslip? It is as a proof for the payment that you been receiving/claimed to receive. I as a HR personnel received tonnes of false claims on candidates salary. Some lump in their non contractual bonus, their medical, their additional EPF, their OT, their travel allowance, their claim in their salary. Is it justifiable?

First, lets understand about the mechanism of salary structure. Each company has a placement/budget in the market salary benchmark. Either they are a @P50 (average paymaster - 50% of the market), @P75 (top 25% paymaster) or @P90 (top 10% paymaster). Each company must set their salary bracket based on their strategy and they have to adhere to it in order not to burst their manpower budget.

Company also have an internal benchmark in order to ensure that an internal equity is not disrupted by hiring a new person. Imagine you have 10 people with 5 years of experience, earning RM 5k in your company and suddenly the manager hire a new person with similar years of experience but earning RM 7k.

People do share about salary irregardless how much we emphasize about P&C of it. Don't you think it will cause an uproar?

2nd - Don't be worried about your payslips copy. You indicate your expectation earlier in your CV and if the company is willing to accommodate to your expectation, they will call you in. A good recruiter will be able to tell if the company able to afford you or not instead of sending you blindly for the interview. The recruiter need to indicate to the hiring manager about the candidate expectation as they supposed to perform the first round of interview with the candidate.

3rd - If you already provide your expectation, passed the interview, fit the bill but your expected salary is higher compared to the rest? This is where HR use your payslips to justify to hiring manager/management on either upgrading your level/position/job grade for a higher salary. You negotiate your salary during the interview or after the interview with HR.

4th - For reference check, normally HR don't check about salary as it is mainly about performance/work related issues. Furthermore HR don't normally call the other company HR for reference unless there is a red flag in your CV/documents such as falsifying documents. HR usually called your ex-supervisor/manager/colleagues to check about your performance.
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Good explanation thumbup.gif
TSHappyHampers
post Mar 24 2015, 02:12 PM

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Of cos we cannot let our current employer knows that we are actively finding job elsewhere and attending interviews , and not to jeorpadize our current job and employee relationship with the current employer... So its not a good idea to let potential employer to call out current employer HR to check, let say our current job is junior/senior executive positions earning around RM3k to 5k.

QUOTE(cannyeo @ Mar 24 2015, 01:33 PM)
It depends, if there's some information they would like to verify themselves, they will call your current employer prior to the interview.

Case Scenario 1 (True Story):
There was a candidate once apply for the position - Senior POS Consultant. He has a good employment track record according to the CV, but when I call to his current employer. The HR told me this person has been terminated due to thievery(He stole an Iphone from his CO-worker, the HR scheduled a SPOT CHECK and found the phone in his car).

For high level position, especially those that pays 5 figure, we will definitely call your past employers. For MNCs, its their SOP to do reference check, you cant avoid, some treat it as a formality, but for some its a necessity.
*
This post has been edited by HappyHampers: Mar 24 2015, 02:15 PM
thoyol
post Mar 24 2015, 02:22 PM

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QUOTE(HappyHampers @ Mar 24 2015, 02:12 PM)
Of cos we cannot let our current employer knows that we are actively finding job elsewhere and attending interviews , and not to jeorpadize our current job and employee relationship with the current employer... So its not a good idea to let potential employer to call out current employer HR to check, let say our current job is junior/senior executive positions earning around RM3k to 5k.
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Normally I will only conduct the reference check after they signed the offer letter but before their date. I also have a clause to state that the status of the offer is depending on reference check results. Why is it done later after they signed the offer letter? To avoid jeopardizing the candidate employment by calling the employer without any firm offer. At least once they signed the offer letter, I as the future employer is firm in our decision to hire him/her.

So far out of hundreds of offer that I churned out, I only retract 1 - 2 offer due to bad reference.
TSHappyHampers
post Mar 24 2015, 02:26 PM

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If the current employer or the boss not happy with the person resigned, they can give bad reference and offer retracted... how ? The employee suffer job loss.

QUOTE(thoyol @ Mar 24 2015, 02:22 PM)
Normally I will only conduct the reference check after they signed the offer letter but before their date. I also have a clause to state that the status of the offer is depending on reference check results. Why is it done later after they signed the offer letter? To avoid jeopardizing the candidate employment by calling the employer without any firm offer. At least once they signed the offer letter, I as the future employer is firm in our decision to hire him/her.

So far out of hundreds of offer that I churned out, I only retract 1 - 2 offer due to bad reference.
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This post has been edited by HappyHampers: Mar 24 2015, 02:27 PM
birdman8
post Mar 24 2015, 02:33 PM

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QUOTE(thoyol @ Mar 24 2015, 02:22 PM)
Normally I will only conduct the reference check after they signed the offer letter but before their date. I also have a clause to state that the status of the offer is depending on reference check results. Why is it done later after they signed the offer letter? To avoid jeopardizing the candidate employment by calling the employer without any firm offer. At least once they signed the offer letter, I as the future employer is firm in our decision to hire him/her.

So far out of hundreds of offer that I churned out, I only retract 1 - 2 offer due to bad reference.
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this is my own opinion only....
the employer should not call the present employer but the one before the candidate current employment....unless suspect of something wrong in current employment.
also, it is not good to call reference at the end of final interview/ job offer time...if subsequent retract due to bad reference outcome, not only it is wasting candidate time, but also the senior management or director who has spend their precious time 2 conducted the final interview and already make out their mind to take in this candidate.
i think the best time to do the reference check is before the final interview or after the first/ second interview.
hr has been paid for doing that anyhow.

This post has been edited by birdman8: Mar 24 2015, 02:37 PM
thoyol
post Mar 24 2015, 02:42 PM

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QUOTE(birdman8 @ Mar 24 2015, 02:33 PM)
this is my own opinion only....
the employer should not call the present employer but the one before the candidate current employment....unless suspect of something wrong in current employment.
also, it is not good to call reference at the end of final interview/ job offer time...if subsequent retract due to bad reference outcome, not only it is wasting candidate time, but also the senior management or director who has spend their precious time 2 conducted the final interview and already make out their mind to take in this candidate.
i think the best time to do the reference check is before the final interview or after the first/ second interview.
hr has been paid for doing that anyhow.
*
yup, thats why I said I dont really call HR of the other company unless there is a 'red flag' about the candidate. Reference check is done based on referee provided by the candidate.
moomoosky
post Mar 24 2015, 02:56 PM

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how long it takes for hr background check ?
knwong
post Mar 24 2015, 02:59 PM

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I have few questions, with a payslip:

1. Why limits the candidate from getting a >50% jump in the next job search

2. How do company compensate a candidate which only draws $1 yearly salary in his/her last job, but receive huge dividend and stock options with the previous company

3. With average pay of only RM300 per month, how to hire bright candidate from 3rd world country such as Bangladesh or Burma try to gain entry into our job market

This post has been edited by knwong: Mar 24 2015, 03:51 PM
TSHappyHampers
post Mar 24 2015, 03:50 PM

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On job application form, do we require to write down our current office telephone number ?

QUOTE(thoyol @ Mar 24 2015, 02:42 PM)
yup, thats why I said I dont really call HR of the other company unless there is a 'red flag' about the candidate. Reference check is done based on referee provided by the candidate.
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thoyol
post Mar 24 2015, 03:59 PM

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QUOTE(moomoosky @ Mar 24 2015, 02:56 PM)
how long it takes for hr background check ?
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background check depend on the type of background check and the turnaround time agreed with the Background Check agencies. Normally background check is done by external party as it involved police report, finance report and etc. Last time when I done 1 for manufacturing company, it took roughly 1 - 2 weeks to get the result.
cannyeo
post Mar 24 2015, 04:33 PM

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QUOTE(moomoosky @ Mar 24 2015, 03:56 PM)
how long it takes for hr background check ?
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If its done by me, 15 minutes at most. Its a guided check, yes, "guided".

For criminal record check, we need to go through PDRM or third party vendors. Tedious process, normally my clients wont want to do it as it cost alot.
cannyeo
post Mar 24 2015, 04:39 PM

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QUOTE(HappyHampers @ Mar 24 2015, 03:12 PM)
Of cos we cannot let our current employer knows that we are actively finding job elsewhere and attending interviews , and not to jeorpadize our current job and employee relationship with the current employer... So its not a good idea to let potential employer to call out current employer HR to check, let say our current job is junior/senior executive positions earning around RM3k to 5k.
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Like i said, it depends. I only did it because that candidate FFK 3 times and I helped him to reschedule 2 times, and the interview was with GM of a renowned company. It made my client so distress, i almost want to cry.

Well, now that his past records is out there, he is still lurking in lowyat looking for jobs since December 2014. GG this guy.

100 % of my candidate's reference check is done during job offer stage. My client will indicate that "they are ready to offer". Just except this POS Consultant.

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