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 LYN Catholic Fellowship V01 (Group), For Catholics (Roman or Eastern)

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feynman
post Apr 20 2015, 09:50 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Apr 18 2015, 09:02 PM)
Ten Things Every Catholic Should Know About Marriage
April 15, 2015 by Fr. Dwight Longenecker

There is so much confusion about love and marriage in our church.
So here are ten things every Catholic should know about marriage.

1. Marriage is something given by God - Marriage is not a social construct or a romantic idea. Marriage is not a sentimental occasion or the chance for a great party. Marriage is not something we made up either as individuals, a tribe or a society. Marriage is given by God. The beginning of the Bible shows man and woman together by God’s design. This was affirmed by Jesus Christ, human society, common sense and the universal experience of the human race. Marriage might have taken slightly different forms in different societies, but the essence of marriage–a man and woman together to complete one another and be united for life is a universal given.

2. A Valid Marriage is Between one Man and one Woman - Marriage is forged from the natural order. Men and women fit together. They fit together to make love and make babies. Two men or two women can love each other and that love can be a good and beautiful thing, but this is called friendship. It’s not marriage. Friends do not have sex together. That’s something husbands and wives–men and women do. Therefore, even if society makes laws that contradict this obvious truth, a marriage cannot take place between two people of the same sex.

3. Marriage is a lifetime commitment - For Catholics, marriage is for life. If you are validly married to a person you are married to that person until one of you dies. If you separate from that person you are still married to him or her. If you obtain a civil divorce, in the church’s eyes, you are still married to that person. If the marriage is valid you are married for life. If you are separated or divorced you cannot marry another person because that would be adultery which is a serious sin. You also cannot make love to another person because that too would be adultery.

4. For a marriage to be valid the man and woman must both be free to marry - You can’t marry someone who is already married.

5. For the marriage to be valid the man and woman must understand the nature of marriage and make their vows with full and willing consent - For all sorts of reasons people get married, but they either do not truly understand what they are doing or they have not made full and willing consent. If there are any circumstances or intentions which limit their ability to make full, mature and willing consent the marriage could be invalid.

6. For a marriage to be valid for a Catholic some other obligations must be fulfilled - A Catholic also has to be married according to the proper “form”. The proper form is that they must marry another Catholic in a Catholic church according to a Catholic ritual and officiated by a Catholic priest or deacon. If you’re a Catholic you can’t be married in a Las Vegas wedding chapel or on the beach or the mountaintop chapel at your local Baptist camp. You can’t be married by the Lutheran pastor or the Episcopal priest. You can’t choose a church according to which is prettiest. However, if there is good reason for a Catholic to be married to a non-Catholic or in some other place by another minister it is possible to ask the bishop for permission to dispense from the proper form. If you are a Catholic and you have not been married according to proper form then the marriage is probably invalid and you could probably receive a decree of nullity.

7. A decree of nullity is not a “Catholic divorce” -  A marriage can be declared null or non existent by the competent church authority. After due investigation the authority may decide that a marriage never existed. This could be because of lack of form–the Catholic was not married in a Catholic Church to another Catholic by a Catholic official according to a Catholic rite. It could also be because one of the partners was not free to marry or because for complicated reasons, one of the persons was not able to make a valid marriage.

8. A decree of nullity has nothing to do with the quality of the relationship - You can’t apply for a decree of nullity because your husband has turned out to be a stinker or your wife is unfaithful. You said “for better or for worse” remember? A decree of nullity doesn’t have anything to do with what is happening in the marriage itself. Instead it is a decision based on whether or not a marriage was validly contracted in the first place. The reasons for the problems within a marriage might have existed at the point of marriage and may mean the marriage is invalid, but the actual fact of difficulties within a marriage–even if they are severe–are not the basis on which a nullity is decided.

9. For Catholics Marriage is a Sacrament  – Marriage is not just a fairytale romance in which a man and woman fall in love and live happily ever after. In addition to the romance and erotic love, marriage is a sacrament. What is a sacrament? It is a sacred mystery in which the physical aspect of life becomes a channel of divine grace. In other words, through the physical aspects of married life–everything from making love to making breakfast, making money or fighting and making up–can be a connector to the divine life. That’s why we say marriage is given by God and we can’t tinker with the basics of what marriage actually is.

10. Marriage is part of the mystery of Christ and his church - In the Old Testament God said he would come and be the bridegroom of his people. Jesus used nuptial imagery many times in his teaching. He called himself “the bridegroom” and his followers “the bride.”  St Paul said husbands should love their wives “as Christ loved the church”. He uses nuptial imagery repeatedly to talk about the church which is “the bride of Christ.” This means that our human marriages connect us with the mystery of Christ and his church. It is through the sacrament of marriage that we learn what God’s love is like. It is through the mystery of marriage that we experience the unity a believer is to have with Jesus Christ himself.

This is why the Catholic Church cannot tinker with marriage, because when we change the definition of marriage we change our understanding of our salvation. When we change the definition of marriage we change our understanding of Christ and his church. When we change marriage we therefore change our relationship with God.

This is also why the Catholic Church is opposed to anything which hurts or breaks marriage. This is why we are down on adultery, fornication, co habitation, homosexuality, masturbation, prostitution, pornography, divorce, re-marriage, bigamy, sexual abuse, rape, artificial contraception, artificial conception and anything else that breaks the precious and eternal sacrament of marriage.
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A bit too dogmatic. Marriage is sacred but point 6 sounds like canon law rather than anything spiritual or faith based.

It's like must bow 3 times when you pass the river or it will be null. What? If one take vows in the presence of God, then it should be valid. An episcopal priest also has apostolic succession, so does an orthodox priest not in communion with Rome.

The problem with catholic church is sometimes that it has too much laws and regulation that were deduced and inferred from theological and basically neglect and lose sight of what truly matters that is faith in the Lord. This preoccupation has only given ammo to other chrstians communities and atheists to shoot down the catholic church. Why do you think Francis is doing the most simple of things like dining with the homeless than to sit and write a 100 page essay on the nature of the flesh that none of the laity can actually understand? Theology we need but for the masses, it's not theology but the faith in the saving grace of God.

This post has been edited by feynman: Apr 20 2015, 09:55 PM
feynman
post Dec 24 2015, 12:35 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Dec 23 2015, 03:12 PM)
"Silver and gold have i none"- Acts 3 

Maybe not poor . But they did not build empires of wealth.  "Sell all you have and follow me"? 
Certainly they are not  dressed as radiantly as the popes and seated on thrones as such, of whom Roman Catholics claim descended from Peter.

Blessings are to help the poor. Why keep them in the Vatican? Why adorn themselves while there is starvation in the world? Feed them. Sell the gold and help the world. That's the teaching of scriptures. Not hoard the wealth and dress in them like the pharisees of old.

Abraham, Jacob and Job were not new testament institutions of Jesus whom claimed traditional heritage.

There are many more traditions which are in conflict with scriptures. But suffice, wealth is an issue here with the popes and Vatican.

Do you subscribe to this pope's statement?
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aiyoyo....

The catholic church is one of the largest charitable organisations in the world.....as big or bigger than the red cross in coverage and penetration.

In case you didn't know....priests are bound by the vows of poverty...they only have pocket money for the day, and all live through the charity of their communities.

The current pope...he's a jesuit, that guy is broke as fuck. He's the last person that any robber should rob. All the blings you see anywhere, is not his. It's property of the community.

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feynman
post Apr 13 2016, 04:02 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Apr 13 2016, 02:51 PM)
Before the Bible was written (NT), all was handed down via Tradition. The authority of the Church also comes into place, such as as who defines the canon of the Bible. It is none other than the Church. Scripture in Christianity is unlike the belief of the Muslims which claimed that their scripture was brought by an angel direct to their prophet. Surely you guys know this, right?
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Some people are ignorant....

They don't know that the 12 apostles don't have what we regard as the bible when they started the ministry.....

All they knew was that some jew died and did not stay dead. It is this experience that sustained them even to their painful deaths.

It is this same experience that they shared with those who have not known that jew that eventually defined the canon.

Note, I am not calling faith here......if you see someone who died but did not stay dead and come and chill with you for another 1.5 months after the supposed death, it's hardly call faith. It's real experience. Some real shit they saw in their lives....so much so that they were willing to die for it. Berani kerana benar.
feynman
post Apr 13 2016, 04:08 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Apr 13 2016, 04:02 PM)
Why would my denomination matter.

Well, the fact that denomination is so important tells me that tradition matters to you more then the actual word of God.
The central theme of all denominations are the same.

So your interpretation of the bible is based on the Catholic exegesis and not through your own spiritual understanding. No wonder.

I guess you have no choice but to agree then with the current pope's view on homosexuality and evolution.
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own spiritual understanding.....i suppose the it will be equally valid to understand scripture from a JW own spiritual understanding
feynman
post Apr 13 2016, 08:43 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Apr 13 2016, 04:15 PM)
I never indicated that.
What I am trying to say is that one's interpretation of scriptures should not be limited to a particular denomination biasness.

And JW is not recognize because their central doctrines differ to the central theme.
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QUOTE(shioks @ Apr 13 2016, 06:27 PM)
You are actually putting tradition and church above the Bible.

Book of Revelation 22:18-19 says "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book.  If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.  And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Apr 13 2016, 06:34 PM)
He forgotten that there is the old testament.

Everything that the apostles said are often compared with the scriptures. If the apostles said something that contradicts the scriptures(Old Testament), they will probably not be taken seriously. The old testament and the new testament has to sync. The traditions has to sync with the scripture. But then, in the catholic system, tradition has to be followed even if it does not sync with scripture.

He seems to think that people can just invent the traditions and people just follow those traditions blindly.
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To be fair, go take a deeper look of what tradition plays in Christianity.

The written Word Of God doesn't appear from thin air, if I was a contemporary of Paul, I would not have a "bible" which I could read at home. I only have the tradition and the faith from which these people have witness. Moreover, there are actually more than 4 gospels, besides Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, many gospels attributed to Peter, Judas, Thomas etc were written and yet only 4 made it into the "bible". Which smart alec decided about these 4 and not the rest?

If Scripture is read without the light of tradition.........then, there will be a lot of things that you shouldn't do...... you must not eat shellfish and if you are a woman, you should stfu.

It's probably apparent to you all that the main beef that muslims have against christians is that the bible is corrupted because it has so many translations and yadda yadda. True that, but they do not realise that christians scripture wasn't a fax from God to one of those apostles, it was a tedious canonisation process guided by tradition, a tradition that spread from word of mouth from the first apostles down to the ones who "decided" on which gospels "get into the bible" This tradition is grounded in that faith and experience that sparked when that jew died and didn't stay dead.

You also have to understand that it was tradition that squashed gnosticism, marcionism, Arianism and other "non-catholic" beliefs. This was a time where there wasn't a bible, how did the christians then "win" the battle when there wasn't an agreed bible to quote from? Why the trinity? and why not Jesus being the love child(as the result of piap piap) of God whom you call as the Father? If I was greek I would by Jesus as a love child of Jehowah...well since zeus has a lot of children.....but what put a stop to this belief?

I only ask that you be fair and study the role played by tradition before accusing "catholics" to be mad. Btw, catholic in Chinese means public...........essentially, it's the public faith. As far as the eastern and oriental orthodoxies are concerned, they agree on the pivotal role that tradition plays. Their dispute with Rome are largely confined to some theological and christological aspects.

The people who have problem with tradition appears to be those who find their roots from Western Christianity, post 1600s.

So be fair and consider, don't let egos get the better of us.

This post has been edited by feynman: Apr 13 2016, 08:57 PM

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