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 LYN Catholic Fellowship V01 (Group), For Catholics (Roman or Eastern)

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de1929
post Apr 16 2015, 10:18 PM

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post Apr 16 2015, 10:23 PM

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post Apr 16 2015, 11:05 PM

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post Apr 17 2015, 12:06 AM

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de1929
post Apr 23 2015, 09:34 AM

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QUOTE(Jedi @ Jan 26 2013, 04:55 PM)
wow  thumbup.gif  thank you for sharing!
call me a rebel, but
I believe Holy Spirit guides us and teaches us, through private revelations for us, which brings us DEEPER INTO THE GOSPEL, but Revelations can be private through life experiences of a man, for example of Apostles.

Matthew 16:18 - Jesus established and protects His Church

Matthew 28:20 - Jesus promises to be with His Church always

John 16:13 - The Holy Spirit guides the Church into all truth

1 Timothy 3:15 - The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth

Matthew 18:17-18 - If someone refuses to listen to the Church cast him out

Matthew 28:18-20 - The Churches authority is Jesus' authority.

1 John 4:6 - Anyone who knows God listens to the Church

Luke 10:16 - He who rejects the Church rejects Christ

Matthew 16:19 - The Church has power to legislate

Acts 15:28 - Decisions of the Church are decisions of the Holy Spirit

60, 000 $$ question. 2 Thessalonians 2:15 and based on life accounts of the apostles, mainly the Preacher to the Gentiles, St Paul, also shows us that we must be obedient. Therefore when we rely on Holy Spirit, we also must remain within the Body, His Bride.

We should be humble, and obedient, and open ourselves fully to God. That is what I wanted to share..without discussions intended, bec it is not a general christian topic and I agreed with our bro unknown warrior not to pursue. (however I wish for a unity of denominations and Church)
I believe.

That is the primary way of getting in touch with God, someone who loves us so much thinking about us every second.

Prayer is the oxygen of my soul - St Padre Pio

Not only we can give thanks, praise and worship, whatever we ask, if according to His Will, will be given to us, and it always happens. God never disappointed me even once. He loves me, and us, even though we are sinners, and as I am a student, even though I could not preach like a pastor does (yet), even though I have little time to help others, prayer alone, is what God desires and makes us pleasing in His eyes.

i.e one of my life experiences: I remember once, He told me, prayer alone suffices, when I prayed for our beloved country Malaysia, esp of the political situations, and that to ask the Lord, look not upon our sins, but at the hunger and cold they suffer, and a voice in my head said: My Child, I will be merciful to them. Know that it is your prayer and the citizens of Malaysia that uphold the world (Malaysia).

God desires our prayers, bec our prayers changes the world, unbeknowingly to us, to other people. Without prayers, for example, our political ministers could fare worse, and would be more corrupt in their senses in ways we cannot imagine. That is why I believe, God says 'it is us who uphold the world', He is being merciful, and loving , as His Divinity is, flowing graces upon us, even though Hurtful as it is to Him, flowing off rock to certain people. Therefore, we should encourage each other to pray  smile.gif
*
Jedi, in case you "awake"... here is a catholic thread fyi...

de1929
post Apr 23 2015, 09:54 AM

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QUOTE(Jedi @ Feb 7 2013, 12:03 AM)
The source is something you always resent (all the councils of the Church - this is from Vatican II), but very well,
from Catechism of Catholic Church

The Different Kinds of Sins

1852 There are a great many kinds of sins. Scripture provides several lists of them. the Letter to the Galatians contrasts the works of the flesh with the fruit of the Spirit: "Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God."127

1853 Sins can be distinguished according to their objects, as can every human act; or according to the virtues they oppose, by excess or defect; or according to the commandments they violate. They can also be classed according to whether they concern God, neighbor, or oneself; they can be divided into spiritual and carnal sins, or again as sins in thought, word, deed, or omission. the root of sin is in the heart of man, in his free will, according to the teaching of the Lord: "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a man."128 But in the heart also resides charity, the source of the good and pure works, which sin wounds.
The Gravity of Sin: Mortal and Venial Sin

1854 Sins are rightly evaluated according to their gravity. the distinction between mortal and venial sin, already evident in Scripture,129 became part of the tradition of the Church. It is corroborated by human experience.

1855 Mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man by a grave violation of God's law; it turns man away from God, who is his ultimate end and his beatitude, by preferring an inferior good to him.
Venial sin allows charity to subsist, even though it offends and wounds it.

1856 Mortal sin, by attacking the vital principle within us - that is, charity - necessitates a new initiative of God's mercy and a conversion of heart which is normally accomplished within the setting of the sacrament of reconciliation:

When the will sets itself upon something that is of its nature incompatible with the charity that orients man toward his ultimate end, then the sin is mortal by its very object . . . whether it contradicts the love of God, such as blasphemy or perjury, or the love of neighbor, such as homicide or adultery.... But when the sinner's will is set upon something that of its nature involves a disorder, but is not opposed to the love of God and neighbor, such as thoughtless chatter or immoderate laughter and the like, such sins are venial.130

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."131

1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."132 The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.

1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God's law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart133 do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.

1860 Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. the promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.

1861 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God's forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ's kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.

1862 One commits venial sin when, in a less serious matter, he does not observe the standard prescribed by the moral law, or when he disobeys the moral law in a grave matter, but without full knowledge or without complete consent.

1863 Venial sin weakens charity; it manifests a disordered affection for created goods; it impedes the soul's progress in the exercise of the virtues and the practice of the moral good; it merits temporal punishment. Deliberate and unrepented venial sin disposes us little by little to commit mortal sin. However venial sin does not set us in direct opposition to the will and friendship of God; it does not break the covenant with God. With God's grace it is humanly reparable. "Venial sin does not deprive the sinner of sanctifying grace, friendship with God, charity, and consequently eternal happiness."134

While he is in the flesh, man cannot help but have at least some light sins. But do not despise these sins which we call "light": if you take them for light when you weigh them, tremble when you count them. A number of light objects makes a great mass; a number of drops fills a river; a number of grains makes a heap. What then is our hope? Above all, confession.135

1864 "Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin."136 There are no limits to the mercy of God, but anyone who deliberately refuses to accept his mercy by repenting, rejects the forgiveness of his sins and the salvation offered by the Holy Spirit.137 Such hardness of heart can lead to final impenitence and eternal loss.

In conclusion, for me,

Mortal sin = is when I sin consciously and feel guilt

Venial sin = is when I sin unconsciously and I dont feel guilt nor even know that I sin

Mortal sins separate us from God's grace (temporarily) until we ask forgiveness from God  - for protestants, directly, for catholics - we go through priests, and is necessary before we receive Holy Communion

Because receiving Eucharist (to us real presence of Body and Blood) with mortal sin brings death.
1 Corinthians 11:
Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. …For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself.
Where are we told to confess sins to a priest ?
(as u understand with which something we cant agree on, which is keeping of apostolic tradition, rejected by pros, but I still would provide biblical source why we go through priests for Mortal Sins, without discussion as it only brings disagreement)

1 John 1 in WHOLE context

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

......

Note in verse 3 You fellowship with us and OUR fellowship is with the Father and Jesus

understanding here is important to the role of Persona Christi in forgiving of sins. Lets continue with the rest of the chapter knowing the setting at the beginning

......

5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

........

Now we have the confession of sins mentioned in verse 9....But How?....You are already told Felowship with us as we fellowship with The Father and Jesus.

as to whether the Apostles were Priests (Bishops as well)

Mark 2:26
How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?
Amen smile.gif
very well, lets discuss, my fellow bro defender of Christendom.

Now If this is true, I still wonder why many people (and you included) say Catholic err, because many authors have ran through the Scriptures in its Original Form and have agreed on what was written, was inspired by Holy Spirit until 1500s , up came Zwingli Calvin who also claimed to be inspired by Holy Spirit and offered otherwise?

Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth not Confusion? We are talking about deposit fidei, not what the corrupted men (popes who warmonger, childsexabuse) did, but the Faith of the Church as a whole.

1) why Protestants still reject Hail Mary Full of Grace as Mary conceived without Original Sin.

For example, KJV Bible (dictated by men) uses Pleres Charis

History of KJV Bible and most English Bibles today who followed:
Francis Bacon was in possession of the Bible for a year before it was publicized. It was Bacon who put all of the Shakespearean prose in the KJV. Bacon was a student of John Dee who spent his life conjuring demons and creating practices of willing possession that would later be used by Bacon who started the order of the rosy cross( Rosecrusians).
He also studied how spirits can influence inanimate objects. With the help of king James, Bacon started the first Masonic lodges in England.
God knows what he done to the Bible..
But the original Bible Scripture was written in Koine Greek, not Plain Greek : Kecharitomene - Ke is Perfect Present Tense, full of grace before conceived.

2) Catholics engage in endless praise of Mary.
Luke 11:27-28
And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

The Woman in the crowd says "Blessed is the womb that carried you and the breasts at which you nursed." The greek word for womb is pronounced koyleeah and the word for breasts mastos. That the woman is blessing Mary's maternity of Jesus is inescapable.

So, why does Jesus disagree?
11:28 He replied, "Rather, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it."

rath•er
(rā th 'ər, rä' th ər)

adv.

i) With more logic, wisdom, or other justification.
ii) More readily; preferably: I'd rather go to the movies.
iii) More exactly; more accurately: He's my friend, or rather he was my friend.
iv) To a certain extent; somewhat: rather cold.
v) On the contrary.
(rā' th ûr', rä'-) Chiefly British Most certainly. Used as an emphatic affirmative reply.

Protestants imply that Jesus is using definition #4, on the contrary, but that is not at all the case. Jesus is actually using a term that denotes agreement with the woman to an extent, but showing emphasis on Mary's obedience rather than her maternity.

The exegesis of the word bears this out unmistakably.

The word rather, in this passage, is translated from a greek word pronounced menoongeh. This word is a conjunction of the words men (to affirm), oon (accordingly) and gheh (which denotes emphasis).

It is very clear that Jesus is not saying "not 'A' but 'B'" but is, in fact, saying, "yes 'A' (men) and (oon), even more than that (gheh) "B".

So, to paraphrase....

Woman: Blessed is your mother for carrying you and nursing you.
Jesus: Yes, but more blessed are those who hear the word of God and obey......

Huey - the Greek word for "rather" is "menounge." Menounge really means "Yes, but in addition," or "Further." Jesus is saying, yes my mother is blessed indeed, but further blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it. Jesus is encouraging others to follow Mary's example in order to build up His kingdom.

So, Jesus is, in essence, saying "Yes, she is blessed for her motherhood, but most because she heard and obeyed.

Of course, what Jesus says of Mary, implicitly, is what Elizabeth says explicitely;

Luke 1:45 Blessed are you who believed that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled."

Mary is praised by both her cousin and her Son. In fact, the Holy Spirit allows Mary to even say of herself "All Generations will call me blessed". If you are not praising Mary, it is Protestants who stepped out with Scripture, not us.
It depends on how you view this word 'It is finished'

Many Christians lapse back into old life and take the Sinners Prayer and one confession believing they will be saved.

Wrong. Baptism is not valid when one , also takes it lightly without understanding or discerning what is that lifetime Sacrament he went through.

Please state in the Bible where Christ took upon Himself our sins on the Cross, AND THE PUNISHMENT AND REPARATION DUE FOR THOSE SINS.

Christ atones for our sins, true. Fully. Completely.

But we now owe our salvation to His Sacrifice, which means we are indebted to Him to avoid sin, or make reparation to Him for sin since He atoned for our sins.

We CANNOT assume He both atones and renders satisfaction for the debt due. His atonement is clear. Reparation for the debt of sin is not clear, and I say ABSENT in the Bible. You believe this out of necessity, because you can't be justified by faith alone if reparation (deeds) are due to God for the debt we owe Jesus for His atonement. You also believe this because you reject Sacraments, because, hey, if you are already saved, you don't need Sacraments. It is a logical fallacy of circular logic.

so we must live by Christ, and His Grace, and not obstinate in our errors.

Faith, hope, LOVE. St Paul reminded us. Jesus COMMANDED us.

Pax.
*
yeeck This is jedi opinion about Catechism of Catholic Church. Should be compatible with roman catholic. just delete if it's not compatible biggrin.gif
de1929
post Apr 23 2015, 11:52 AM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Apr 23 2015, 11:36 AM)
Why are you resurrecting old threads?
*
to bring as many catholic as possible to this tered.
de1929
post Apr 29 2015, 09:08 PM

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QUOTE(mobileapps @ Apr 29 2015, 08:51 PM)
...
curious, if protestants are off from the catholic church, why do their apostles creed say they believe in the holy catholic church?  hmm.gif
...
*
apostle creed was created much much earlier before protestant was born.
de1929
post Jun 15 2015, 07:10 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Jun 15 2015, 06:20 PM)
Yeah, it is indeed a special grace to be able to die fortified with this sacrament.
*
yeeck, just curious, do you have any website that we can study more about catholic in structured manner ? structured meaning not magazine nor book nor youtube biggrin.gif
something similar to christian bachelor of theology university courses.


de1929
post Jun 17 2015, 09:01 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Jun 16 2015, 10:19 AM)
You can start with any officially approved catechisms. For something formal, there's always the seminary smile.gif
*
seminary is common name lahh brader biggrin.gif...
http://www.stssabah.org/ i don't think that seminary is catholic

any seminary example approved by vatican ?

QUOTE(khool @ Jun 16 2015, 10:26 AM)
If you are truly curious and would like to find out more, just head down to the nearest Catholic Church and enrol in the RCIA course.
*
ah... i found online... can check the validity ?
http://www.wakingupcatholic.com/waking-up-...-resources.html

-- both of u... many thanks biggrin.gif

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