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 Honda S2000 fan please in, -=Honda S2000=-

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sleepwalker
post Oct 5 2006, 02:50 PM

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QUOTE(kev da man @ Oct 5 2006, 12:56 PM)
RM160K ++
2.0 dohc VTEC
RWD
9k rpm redline
weedy torque, but 220bhp

get the GT model, hardtop instead of the cloth top
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You don't need to mention weedy torque.. the moment you say VTEC.. it also means weeedy torque.. ahhahaha..
sleepwalker
post Oct 5 2006, 05:01 PM

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QUOTE(tunertoobe @ Oct 5 2006, 03:43 PM)
It has good torque. HOWEVER!!!!
It only arrives at over 7000rpm.  laugh.gif
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We were referring to the weeedy torque at 7000RPM. Anything below that is too low to even consider as weedy...
sleepwalker
post Oct 5 2006, 05:02 PM

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QUOTE(andymillenium @ Oct 5 2006, 03:54 PM)
i thinks is around 6000rpm...where VTEC kicks in....  thumbup.gif
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We were actually refering to the weedy max torque.. hahaha.. can you say '3000rpm turbo torque"? hahahah..
sleepwalker
post Oct 5 2006, 05:07 PM

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QUOTE(tunertoobe @ Oct 5 2006, 03:59 PM)
I checked, 207Nm at 7500rpm.

I think what Honda is trying to do is, make as much torque and make them last as long as possible at higher rpms. This way, the can make 240hp from 2 litres.

Eventhough Vtec kicks in at 6000rpm, the torque needs dometime to build up. That's what I think.
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That is not what Honda is trying to do.. that is what Honda HAS to do to make power. All NA engines produce power based on how high they can get their RPM to max out. The only reason why Honda can make over 200HP is due to the fact they can keep engine efficiency up at high RPMs without compromising lower RPM with their VTEC system. They have no choice. RPM X Torque = power. Typical example would be F1 and motorcycle engines... the high RPM makes all the power.

Americans take the easy way out.. BIG DISPLACEMENT...


sleepwalker
post Oct 5 2006, 05:10 PM

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QUOTE(sidewinder1009 @ Oct 5 2006, 04:29 PM)
Yeah it was originally introduced in the States. But I read in Wikipedia that Honda decided to make the 2.2 liter model the only S2000 they produce from now on.  sad.gif

Honda Singapore carries the S2000. But all I ever see here are Mazdas, Mitsubishis and Subarus.
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There is no point carrying it in Malaysia. It's just a matter of economics and 'supply and demand'.

If they bring in the S2000, there is no demand for it from people who can afford it. Those people who demand it cannot afford it. So there's no economics here. Hence no S2000.
sleepwalker
post Oct 5 2006, 05:59 PM

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QUOTE(tunertoobe @ Oct 5 2006, 05:35 PM)
They kinda tricked the engine into making that HP.  laugh.gif  But a little correction, RPM is a small factor into making HP, it is torque.

I agree with you, "They HAVE to do it" to get 120hp/litre.  laugh.gif
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A little correction.. RPM is not small factor, it works together with torque. A B18C has about the same torque as a 4G93 1.8 Putra but it produces more power because it can produce the torque at a higher RPM. So this I do not consider as a small factor in making HP, in fact, it has everything to do with making POWERRRRR...

120HP/L is nothing without the torque, which makes the Honda one of the most difficult cars to drive. Torque is more important in making a car driveable. HP is good only in a straight line which unfortunately, roads aren't built that way.

This post has been edited by sleepwalker: Oct 5 2006, 06:02 PM
sleepwalker
post Oct 5 2006, 09:22 PM

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QUOTE(tunertoobe @ Oct 5 2006, 07:48 PM)
Weh, this is turning into a physics thread.  laugh.gif
Still I will stick to my opinion, RPM is a "small" factor. When they calculate HP, it's torque that they measure. However, RPM is not "that" small, sorry for not clearing that out. I meant that it was like a "supporting cast". Without it, the story won't make sense.

Imagine an engine aking 50 foot-pounds at 4000rpm. That's 38hp. Now how bout making 55 foot-pounds at 3500rpm, 37hp, only 1 hp less but you get the benefit of higher torque and better in-gear accelaration. Honda played around with torque to get the 120hp/litre. It's an old trick learned in motorsports. So in conclusion, high RPM is important but is useless when the torque dies off to easily(which torque tends to do at high RPMs).

Anyways, I'm scared woh, running out of topic.  sweat.gif
Ok, our opinion is your, and mine is mine, leave it at that and lets help the threadstarter buying an S2000.  wink.gif
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Yes you are running out of topic.. and you use the word torque as thought it is some magic figure that you can pull out of the air. Please give me the formula for HP calculation that does not require multiplying it with torque and RPM.

Honda engines have no torque because you can't produce torque out of a small cc engine and they need the high RPM to produce the power. We are talking about Honda engines here. The VTEC system is nothing more than very wild cams at high rpm in order to maintain sufficient engine efficiency so that torque does not drop. Torque drops when the volumetric efficiency of the air flow drops, as there is not enough air to burn the fuel since the valves are opening and closing so quickly and air can't get into the engine fast enough.

However, running wild cams at low RPM produces another problem, which the VTEC solves by switching to a milder cam to minimise the overlapping of the intake and exhaust valves.

If you can read between the lines above, you'd notice that I've been talking about engine RPM all these while. I can give you 500 foot pounds of torque but it would not be much use if you can't use it above 1500RPM. Maybe you have a different understanding of the relation of torque, RPM and HP than I do.

And Honda didn't play around torque to get the power, they played with RPM. Their torque figures are typical of what a normal engine of similar capacity would produce, they made sure that they can keep the SAME torque figure (notice the keyword SAME) but run it at higher RPM.

How much torque an engine can produce depends on it capacity aka displacement and methods of induction (NA or forced).

This post has been edited by sleepwalker: Oct 5 2006, 09:24 PM
sleepwalker
post Oct 5 2006, 10:26 PM

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QUOTE(nerd nation @ Oct 5 2006, 10:03 PM)
Could you explain more on these points? Did you mean honda engines have lower torgue compared to other engines of the same displacement?
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Yes and no. Honda engines do not produce any more torque than a similar capacity engine. However, Honda has less usable torque compared to most engines of similar capacity as they produce the torque further up the torque curve. The engine feels like there's no torque because most the time you can't use it until you rev the engine till almost redline. That's why the ride feels 'torqueless' (if there's such a word).
sleepwalker
post Oct 6 2006, 07:51 AM

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QUOTE(phunkydude @ Oct 6 2006, 12:19 AM)
ermm...``did you mean... the torque graph is flat from , for example.. 0k-6k rpm..
then after 6k rpm...  the torque curve... goes up high..`` ?
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It's not flat, the torque curve continues to climb all the way over 6k, just that it takes so long to get the max torque. The torque curve does not jump like turbo cars, which is why the VTEC kick is more noise than G force when compared to the turbos.
sleepwalker
post Oct 6 2006, 07:52 AM

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QUOTE(hk_trading @ Oct 6 2006, 07:37 AM)
I have seen a lot of DC5 around PJ and KL area but S2000 which is very rare. This lovely baby is it hard to get in Malaysia or there is some other reason ?  wink.gif
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If you read the first page, you would have the answer already. All sportsters have the same problem, not just the S2000

Quote from my own reply in previous page.

"There is no point carrying it in Malaysia. It's just a matter of economics and 'supply and demand'.

If they bring in the S2000, there is no demand for it from people who can afford it. Those people who demand it cannot afford it. So there's no economics here. Hence no S2000."
sleepwalker
post Oct 6 2006, 07:54 AM

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QUOTE(farique @ Oct 6 2006, 07:37 AM)
I believe this video will give u hint..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmfPFwWS0AM

one word. crazy.
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Don't be fooled. This is not VTEC. It's called NOS. Even the most powerful VTEC, the NSX does not perform like that and they don't look like they are in a NSX.

This is what we have been discussing all these while, the lack of torque. I've been in many modified B18Cs and no matter how fast the RPM needle climbs, the car is not pulling the Gs. Then we look at it again, the super fast moving needle is helped by the usually super short gear ratio to counter the low torque, so the fast moving needle is more of an illusion... if you can call it that.. ahhaa..

This post has been edited by sleepwalker: Oct 6 2006, 07:57 AM
sleepwalker
post Oct 6 2006, 07:59 AM

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QUOTE(egiewan @ Oct 6 2006, 12:10 AM)
Well, like Jeremy Clarkson said "You buy a car with your heart" wink.gif This car is surely a headturner, and goes too. Maybe it ain't up to par with the bigger boys in turbo form but hey, can always tweak here and there what laugh.gif The S2000 is not a bad performing car...the performance is 'just right'...get me or not? smile.gif
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I have nothing against the S2000 but a car that looks like that should be faster. Much faster. However, the S2000 does handle very well, there is no doubt about that.
sleepwalker
post Oct 6 2006, 06:51 PM

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QUOTE(egiewan @ Oct 6 2006, 06:02 PM)
Haha...if I ever own a S2000, I wanna mod like this drool.gif
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHVCyj4GqPo...related&search=

Considering the price of a new S2000, sorry to say, I'd rather have an Evo or an Impreza. The S2000 should be priced slightly lower like the MX5 to gain more buyers. My 10 cents smile.gif
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The S2000 cost more than the MX5, by miles. Can't remember how much. I have to go back to watch the best motoring episode on MX5/S2000. I know they had a stupid race where the more expensive the car, the further back they start. They move the car back by 1 meter for every 10000 yen. So the S2000 started at 136 meters behind the old MX5 and almost 100 meters behind the new MRS. So you can guess the price range of the S2000 when compared to the Mazdas.
sleepwalker
post Oct 6 2006, 08:54 PM

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QUOTE(tunertoobe @ Oct 6 2006, 07:25 PM)
But I also hear/read from reviews that if you have VTEC, you can't do much to it, like turbocharging and such. Only simple ehaust and air intake modifications and such. Because forced induction defeats the purpose of having VTEC.
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It can be done, just that the local tuners get it all wrong. The power of VTEC, high RPM and wild cams for efficient air intake while turbos compliment the lower the RPM range. People always say that turbos run out of breath at high rpm, that's not because of the turbine but caused by the cams as turbos have lower cam profile to minimise the overlapping of the valves.

So for optimum power, a low boost turbine (around 0.6 bar) plus mechanical modification to increase the RPM even further up would be the best option for VTEC turbo setups. Unfortunately some local tuners think that bigger is better and ends up running high boost without any spectacular results. Most probably it's easier and cheaper to increase the boost than to increase the RPM while maintaining engine reliability.

This post has been edited by sleepwalker: Oct 6 2006, 08:54 PM
sleepwalker
post Oct 9 2006, 04:41 PM

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QUOTE(Cahill @ Oct 9 2006, 02:25 PM)
all credit must be given to Honda for making one of the most powerful NA engine.  rclxms.gif
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You need to rephrase that. The did not make one of the most powerful NA engine. They made one of the most powerful power to capacity ratio engines.

 

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