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 Traders Kopitiam! V7

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gark
post Mar 30 2015, 05:12 PM

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QUOTE(Boon3 @ Mar 30 2015, 03:46 PM)
LOL!

You cannot see the similarities meh?

Both from the plastic industry....
Both making more money from properties.....

My opinion?
Said before last time jor.....

tongue.gif
*
Ada meh? tongue.gif

Enlighten me.. notworthy.gif
gark
post Mar 31 2015, 10:08 AM

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QUOTE(holybo @ Mar 30 2015, 06:19 PM)
properties still can do? In fact, many developments can't really sell much..
*
Rumah mampu milk should be ok lah... RM 250K onli..

U want? tongue.gif
gark
post Mar 31 2015, 10:15 AM

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QUOTE(Boon3 @ Mar 30 2015, 07:50 PM)
LOL!!!

Ada meh? what?
LOL!

Aiyaaa... you should know what...
few years back...
companies like Scientex la... I Bhs la.... fitters la.... all also jumped into property sector what....

yeah... and some of them did good....
like Scientex....

but here lies the problem....
as a stock...
how exactly does investors see the company?
I remember the rocket company RHB listed them as a jewel under the consumer sector not too long ago....
doh.gif
LOL!

That's the problem right?
It's known to be a top player in the plastic and packaging sector...
but then....
the bulk of the profits now comes from the property....

one of the comments made .... by me.... last Sep...

user posted image

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


so my feelings still the same...
it's rojak....

now.... whatever and however good.... the plastic industry do ......
the impact is not there......... err.... like mosquito bite.... (small one la... lol) .....

and the risk?
if property earnings slide......
it will really show.....

so if you ask me.....
i don't quite see the point....

no matter how good it does....
it probably will not get its due recognition....
yeah.... I doubt it will even trade at 16x pe.....

and where does it leave me?

errrr......... tongue.gif
*
LOL.. thanks for the honest opinion.

Yes, I do not favor the property segment too much.. but its property is cheap (under skim mampu milik) so I think will more or less will be stagnant. The current property arm already have like RM 630 mil unbilled sales (House sold, not completed), enough for profit recognition on for the next 2-3 years.

In fact this company is also winding down it's property launches and it's boosting it's plastic line. It first foray into the commercial plastic line in early 2014 by acquisition of GW Plastics BHD AND Seacera Polyfilms, (at the height of oil price rolleyes.gif ) now looks like good foresight no?

The next 5 years of growth will not come in properties, as the company only plan to launch small amounts of it in 2015 (~150 mil). Commercial plastics will be engine of growth for now ...

Rightly or wrongly.. lets see how it goes since have been holding it for so long already.. nod.gif

This post has been edited by gark: Mar 31 2015, 10:23 AM
gark
post Mar 31 2015, 10:21 AM

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QUOTE(Boon3 @ Mar 31 2015, 08:53 AM)
this is screen shot from Scientex's latest profits....

It's plastics .... actually did worst when compared to 2014....

user posted image
*
Yes.. by going into commercial plastics, they have a margin erosion. Why do you think those company want to sell at the first place? laugh.gif

Plastics is like gloves, you need capacity to make money.. laugh.gif They have recently upgraded GW Plastics PE line from 1K MT to 4K MT. They are going to increase Seacera's 500 MT BOPP capaicty to 5K MT.

tongue.gif
gark
post Mar 31 2015, 10:38 AM

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QUOTE(Boon3 @ Mar 31 2015, 10:25 AM)
hehe.... no problems ...just talking ma...
not an issue who is right or wrong.... tongue.gif

anyway....
if....
the company is winding down in its property launches.... and boosting its plastics ....

and .... using latest Q numbers as a guide...

user posted image

where profits from plastics is 32 million and profits from properties is 72 million...

this means....
the company is downsizing....
its money source.... sweat.gif

and if that's the case....

can the plastics cover the 72 million profit from its properties section?

if the answer is no....

don't you think there's a chance that future earnings might even be lower?
*
Depends.. if the management can grow the commercial plastics in time to catch up.. then yes. Otherwise they will fail. Current plastics sale of 13.6k MT/month (After recent expansion of 1K in Dec 2014), after expansion in 2017 AND is the sales meets target then total sales will be 25k MT (all expansion in commercial plastics). IF margin is the same, then profit will double. For example most of the BOPP films currently used in Malaysia is imported, due to the small size of local players... this is an opportunity IF they can grasp it. laugh.gif

Profit from plastics increased in 2Q15 at RM 17.4 mil vs 1Q15 at RM 16.0 mil...from the new PE film expansion.

For property the profit is already locked in form the huge unbilled sales. This gives them time to grow other source of revenue.. for the property slowing down it might not be the case unbilled sales stand at 640 mil vs 534 mil in mid 2014. means sales are still growing faster than revenue recognition. rclxms.gif

This will not be a short term counter... no catalyst for the mean time until the new plants are UP. tongue.gif

Anyway I happy for someone to give opposing views.. letting us see from different perspective thumbup.gif

This post has been edited by gark: Mar 31 2015, 10:46 AM
gark
post Mar 31 2015, 01:01 PM

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QUOTE(Boon3 @ Mar 31 2015, 11:26 AM)
I did see the q2 improvement from q1.... tongue.gif

But you know me...
I compare the numbers with the previous year...

Anyway..the main issue for me is the company is rojak.

As such...
Hard to see it trade at a higher pe valuation... tongue.gif

Unless of course....
You find the wok man.

lol
*
Not much catalyst for higher PE.. unless the plastics division is a runaway success.. but not likely.

The PEG ratio is quite however low 0.5 to 1.0 ...

At RM 6+ .. no wok is big enough.. tongue.gif

OR high time to issue BI (lots of retained earnings)... BUT only benefit short term only.. laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

This post has been edited by gark: Mar 31 2015, 01:07 PM
gark
post Apr 2 2015, 11:13 AM

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QUOTE(Carls_Nemesis @ Apr 1 2015, 07:49 PM)
gark goh, can recommend any nice examples of 2 plantations stock(palm) for comparing? wan to look into it, the maturity, growth of tree etc
*
You can try compare TSH to Felda lol...

Go compare the following..

1. Tree profile (Average age, distribution of maturity)
2. Remaining Landbank to be planted
3. Yield / Ha
4. Oil extraction rate

To get all those info you must do some digging of documents/reports .. tongue.gif

This post has been edited by gark: Apr 2 2015, 11:18 AM
gark
post Apr 2 2015, 11:16 AM

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QUOTE(Boon3 @ Apr 2 2015, 08:55 AM)
LOL!

Dude, me not an investment adviser laaaaa......
could you understand what the summarized term sheet is saying?
*
I though you are .. hmm.gif
gark
post Apr 2 2015, 11:30 AM

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QUOTE(Boon3 @ Apr 2 2015, 09:08 AM)
then.... don't you think it's dangerous to consider this as an investment? tongue.gif

anyway...
Firstly, note what kind of structured warrant this is...

it's a non-collateralised european style CASH SETTLED warrant...

expiry date: MAR 2016. (life a bit long tongue.gif)

structured warrant price is offered at 15 sen.

conversion price is 1.80.

BUT note.... this is a 2 for 1 conversion ratio.

THIS one very snakey.

why kind these bloody bank put a 1:1 deals?
by putting a 2:1 or 5:1 ....
it's snakey ...
cos sometimes many times...
people do not read the fine print...

so all things equal....

if you get at 15 sen...
you need two to convert...
ie... 30 sen.

conversion price is 1.80.

total = 1.80 + 0.30 = 2.10.

Jaya tiasa trades at 1.64.
you are losing the bet already.....

if you bet based on conversion, you need Jaya Tiasa to trade past 2.10 by Mar 2016 to make money.  sweat.gif

BUT....

if you bet based on mother share move, warrant move...
hell yes....
if warrant moves to 0.17 ....
your profit is already damn bloody good. laugh.gif
*
This is the calculation for the above using black-scholes calculator.. with time value of money.. laugh.gif

Shows intrinsic value 0 sen, theoretical value is 6 sen but market price should be 10 sen.. tongue.gif

This post has been edited by gark: Apr 2 2015, 11:35 AM


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gark
post Apr 2 2015, 11:32 AM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Apr 2 2015, 11:22 AM)
Dig liao but no understand, dig for what laugh.gif
*
People wan to learn mah... if dun understand i can help explain .. tongue.gif
gark
post Apr 2 2015, 01:27 PM

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QUOTE(zDarkForceSz @ Apr 2 2015, 12:00 PM)
still x faham...  doh.gif
*
Then you better not play all these call warrants.. tongue.gif tongue.gif

Or ask pinky.. he certified accountant.. laugh.gif

This post has been edited by gark: Apr 2 2015, 01:29 PM
gark
post Apr 2 2015, 01:28 PM

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QUOTE(Boon3 @ Apr 2 2015, 12:02 PM)
LOL!!!!

If you insist...
You can always pay me..........

I give special discount just for you.....
Less 6%.....

biggrin.gif
*
No problem.. name your price.. flex.gif

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

gark
post Apr 13 2015, 02:53 PM

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22*9 is back in action.. gogogo back to 1.20.. rclxms.gif
gark
post Apr 14 2015, 10:15 AM

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QUOTE(Boon3 @ Apr 13 2015, 03:53 PM)
doh.gif

laugh.gif

I also want...

try put 3 into 2 ...... can fit?

laugh.gif
*
Haha it's actually &a&... about time actually.. tongue.gif

Look at the massive gap between the son and mother...

The 30% holding in son actually > than total cap of mother..

Mysteries of the stock market. laugh.gif

last time sold off some at 1.20, picked back below .80 tongue.gif

This post has been edited by gark: Apr 14 2015, 10:17 AM
gark
post Apr 14 2015, 10:44 AM

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QUOTE(Boon3 @ Apr 14 2015, 10:36 AM)
laugh.gif

You need to give better riddles next time....... tongue.gif
mother market cap ~ 655 million
susi market cap? 2.49 billion....

what mystery?

LOL!
I don't like to play with mothers..... ( doh.gif ..... doesn't sound right somewhere ...... )
*
The mystery is that .. why is the mother placed so low.. tongue.gif

Not consistent with other mothers mah.. got some discount ok understood lah.. but priced below son's holding? rclxub.gif

Anyway lets see how it goes... been holding for some time already. laugh.gif


gark
post Apr 14 2015, 10:50 AM

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QUOTE(Boon3 @ Apr 14 2015, 10:46 AM)
tongue.gif

Yup.... and you know I know....
such stock sure attract you one.
LOL!
*
I hope they sell off susi.. then payday will come. laugh.gif
gark
post Apr 14 2015, 11:00 AM

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QUOTE(johnnyzai89 @ Apr 14 2015, 10:55 AM)
which stock is this ah? tongue.gif
*
Danger stock for punters... tongue.gif

And dont have boons seal of approval.. laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
gark
post Apr 15 2015, 11:57 AM

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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Apr 15 2015, 10:35 AM)
Not consolidation meh today blink.gif

*log in check*

Manaada.jpg mad.gif

Ooh...it's Unker gark's James Bond of the century shocking.gif
*
Public bank gave a report.. undervalue company..net cash RM 80 mil etc etc laugh.gif

QUOTE
Given its i) strong balance sheet, ii) higher-than- average earnings margin (net margin is about 9% vs its peers' 3-4%), iii) more attractive dividend yield and iv) established track record, we think the company's existing businesses are significantly undervalued. Assuming a 20% discount to the industry average PER of 15x for its packaging business while also taking into account the net cash position of RM80m, the company's fair value should be worth of RM2.19, significantly higher than the current price level of RM1.38.


PBB gave a high TP.. not my TP ah! tongue.gif

Low volume tho.. upside might not last. wink.gif

Full report here.

This post has been edited by gark: Apr 15 2015, 12:00 PM
gark
post Apr 15 2015, 11:58 AM

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QUOTE(wankongyew @ Apr 15 2015, 10:39 AM)
Oil price slowly creeping up again.
*
About time! flex.gif
gark
post Apr 15 2015, 12:48 PM

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Today is a good day.. rclxm9.gif

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