No the Title is right, You can't argue with Galatians 4:30.
LYN Christian Fellowship V09 (Group)
LYN Christian Fellowship V09 (Group)
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Mar 4 2015, 02:45 PM
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#121
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No the Title is right, You can't argue with Galatians 4:30.
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Mar 4 2015, 02:53 PM
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#122
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nvm.
This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 4 2015, 03:03 PM |
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Mar 4 2015, 02:54 PM
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#123
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nvm.
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Mar 4 2015, 02:56 PM
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#124
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nvm.
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Mar 4 2015, 02:57 PM
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#125
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nvm.
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Mar 4 2015, 03:34 PM
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#126
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Nvm.
This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 4 2015, 05:18 PM |
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Mar 4 2015, 05:24 PM
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#127
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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 4 2015, 05:18 PM) Lets qualify this. Actually, the HS is our tutor, not the Law. Not Anymore. Keyword is Until in ver23. First of all i do not say to uphold the law. The law is still in effect as far as a tutor is concerned. however, there is NO justification by upholding to the law. Its only faith in Christ by Grace which reconciles us back to God. Likewise the law is a tutor to those who are not yet in Christ. However, if we sin, the law is the tutor which directs us to christ. It does not save us by upholding it. Hope that's clear. What was the problem at Galatia which Paul was trying to address? Its about justification by upholding the law. Gal 2 16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of [n]the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of [o]the Law; since by the works of [p]the Law no [q]flesh will be justified. Then Paul goes to expound Faith and grace through Christ Gal 3 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by [c]hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun [d]by the Spirit, are you now [e]being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you [f]suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works [g]miracles among you, do it by the works of [h]the Law, or by [i]hearing with faith? Purpose of the law 9 Why the Law then? It was added [ac]because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the [ad]agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made. 20 Now a mediator is not [ae]for one party only; whereas God is only one. 21 Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness [af]would indeed have been [ag]based on law. 22 But the Scripture has shut up [ah]everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. [B]24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. The Paul uses allegory of Abraham, sarah and Hagar to show sonship or heir. Allegory is a form of extended metaphor, in which objects, persons, and actions in a narrative, are equated with the meanings that lie outside the narrative itself. The main gist of this passage is not casting out as you put it BUT "For the son of the bondwoman shall not be an heir with the son of the free woman.” Its about being an heir of promise. The whole Gal 4 chapter is about sonship or heir of the promise. Paul is quoting this “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, For the son of the bondwoman shall not be an heir with the son of the free woman.” from Gen 21 10 Therefore she said to Abraham, “Drive out this maid and her son, for the son of this maid shall not be an heir with my son [d]Isaac.” To inherit what God promised, you need to cast out the system of the Law and go by Righteousness of Faith. This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 4 2015, 05:29 PM |
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Mar 4 2015, 05:32 PM
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#128
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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 4 2015, 05:28 PM) there was never a system to begin with. Oh there is. The Whole Covenant is to be cast out, if you don't agree, you're going against Scripture. Sorry. Its in your imagination. Grace was already in the OT as i showed you The problem is you want to put grace vs law thing. Law was never meant to save. So there is nothing to replace or kick out because the purpose of the law was not to save! The law is not a tutor? Are you reading gal 3? Until the coming of Christ, go read it, it's in Galatians 3. When you received Christ, if you live by the spirit, against those fruits there is no law. |
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Mar 4 2015, 05:41 PM
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#129
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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 4 2015, 05:35 PM) Again you dont understand clearly what Paul is trying to bring across. Nothing wrong with the Law against unbelievers. But for believers, it is something you cannot hold on to. Its the wrong idea of justification by law, not law per se, understand? There is NOthing wrong with the law, only the wrong application of it with regards to righteousness. In context to the believers, It's not only in wrong application or justification but Faith is also made void via the Law and the promise becomes of no effect, the Law bring death and nullify Christ. Many areas that Believers cannot rely on even as a yard stick, call it whatever you want. You will die spiritually if Law is the tutor, rather than on Grace of Christ. This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 4 2015, 06:34 PM |
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Mar 4 2015, 05:43 PM
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#130
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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 4 2015, 05:38 PM) See here Paul says the law does not invalidate a covenant The Covenant of the promise of Inheritance given to Abraham's Seed. One Seed. Read that carefully, Bro. The Law does not invalidate the promise in that covenant.17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise. 18 For if the inheritance is [aa]based on law, it is no longer [ab]based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise. Because the promise was never meant to be based a law anyway. When Grace came, Christ removed every curse from the Law. With that being said; What this kicking out is for Believers to cast out the dependence of the Law for inheritance. That is what it means in the typology of Hagar and Sarah. You cannot have both. Look at verse 18. For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise. Then look at verse 16 "to seeds" referring to not just anyone. So in summary if you want to inherit God's Promise, it come by Faith and the Bible emphasize Through One Seed who is the Grace of God, here is where you as a believer, you need kick out that law mentality and look to Grace (Christ). Cast it out, why? Because God will have no part of it. He told Abraham, Listen to your wife. It has spiritual meaning, not just about on the surface "slave". This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 4 2015, 06:43 PM |
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Mar 4 2015, 06:48 PM
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#131
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You know, come to think of it, we're both saying quite close to same thing, Only difference is the terms that YOU don't like.
But if you calm down and think about it, it is. I use the word Kick Out, which is really Cast Out. But why do you incite me for an argument prophetjul? Is it because it gives you some form of satisfaction? You really have issues in your life for 50 years old. Really Stupid IMO. I don't really like to go into another long argument with you because it's really not my cup of tea doing this. Can you find another "victim" for your own sadistic pleasure in life? I'm done talking with you. Iron Sharpen Iron? Rubbish IMO. This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 4 2015, 06:53 PM |
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Mar 5 2015, 08:44 AM
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#132
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QUOTE(tinarhian @ Mar 4 2015, 08:41 PM) unknown warrior VS prophetjul Nah I'm done. I'm not going into another round, waste of time IMO. Really WASTE. Referee: De_Luffy Cheerleader: kron_ka I don't know what's going on between you two. Who's right here? Moses came with the Law. Jesus came and nullify the Law, replacing it with Grace of God. Is that it? QUOTE(yaokb @ Mar 5 2015, 06:50 AM) That's because you don't know the history. It's been that many years. We should be going out there sharing the gospel. Not hunting down believers as a ministry. This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 5 2015, 08:44 AM |
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Mar 5 2015, 08:53 AM
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#133
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Mar 5 2015, 09:23 AM
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#134
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QUOTE(bananajoe @ Mar 5 2015, 09:12 AM) no la pehkay & unknown warrior, i was a born again christian. 12 years back, i was a hindu. IMO. it's better not to try to differentiate, we are all believers in Christ, difference by understanding of doctrine.my wife was catholic before she converted to Christianity. Denominations is not what the Lord Jesus would want anyway. QUOTE(bananajoe @ Mar 5 2015, 09:14 AM) Same thing. My only point is to cast our the thought of dependency on the law. It's quite hard (really) for most Christians. We can say it but our actions subconsciously has this propensity for the law. Under the new covenant we are to inherit from the promises of God effortlessly by Faith. But because of the confusion between law and grace, most of us don't inherit. |
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Mar 5 2015, 12:24 PM
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#135
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Mar 5 2015, 02:33 PM
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#136
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QUOTE(yaokb @ Mar 5 2015, 01:45 PM) Like I said, I don't know what is the problem, lol, at one point of time, I ignored that fella to avoid all this conflicts but you know what?So he's a thorn in the flesh? And we are to deal with it how........? A good question for reflection would be, WHY is there such a reaction from inside us? He was not satisfied with that, continue to instigate and provoke me for a respond by calling me a woman (lol) and quoted Bible scripture on Woman not allowed to preached or teach yada yada. This old Man has issues in his life, you don't know the history. There's more, but lazy to disclose. Whatever it is, it stops here. Not casting my pearls to swines. This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 5 2015, 02:37 PM |
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Mar 5 2015, 04:43 PM
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#137
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QUOTE(kron_ka @ Mar 5 2015, 04:26 PM) hey guys wanna ask about prayer? Make sure if you do this, continue seeking Him for an answer. somebody taught me to pray...when David was persecuted by Saul..he prayed "why this happen to me???". Is it ok...when we pray we can ask God "why why, why you do this to me?". Don't just cry out then give up, avoiding contact with God, it will be pointless then. |
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Mar 5 2015, 06:59 PM
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#138
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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Mar 5 2015, 05:04 PM) Truth is, I didn't really want to come back but when you & luffy encouraged me to come back, I encouraged myself in the Lord to even post what God impressed upon my heart and guess who Satan sent to attack?, The Usual. Sigh. It's always like that. Sons of the Slave (Law) will always attacks Sons of the Free (Grace). That's written in Galatians 4:29, as what happened. Whether you uphold Moral or Ceremonial Law it's still the Law. When you Acknowledge this, you nullify Grace. You'll see who respond to this and you'll recognize the whirlwind. QUOTE(kron_ka @ Mar 5 2015, 05:09 PM) Good point...I really want to seek Him for the answers. Yes it's okay. What gives you'll catch God by surprise with what you're about to say?Right now I am very unclear. Yay, its ok to ask God "why why why".... Btw, do you know the verse David said that to God? Get what I mean? This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 5 2015, 07:03 PM |
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Mar 5 2015, 07:18 PM
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#139
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QUOTE(kron_ka @ Mar 5 2015, 07:08 PM) No la, its just that if I say "Why this and Why that - because i wanted badly to seek God for the answers".....would not be construed as blaming God, right? Bro, this Education Qualification dilemma that you're bring up, it really depends on our effort in studying, it's has nothing to do with God withholding you from excelling. God will never do such a thing.Do you believe in providence? Ok I give you some examples......for eg...a person when he was a kid studied accountancy...didn't understand what he was learning...he studied hard but his results were all "pass"...while his other friends did past year questions...all got "credits" and distinctions". Then when he took up jobs...he got lower salaried jobs..while his friends all got better jobs, result from being accelerated from good results. By the time he reached certain age..all his friends had surpassed him. But presently he began to understand what he studied at uni because he could put his studies into practice, but he doesn't understand why his understanding of the accountancy subject was withheld from him, whereas his fellow classmates understood better. So he prays to God and ask "why why, did you not reveal to me the meaning of accountancy??? Why? Now I have substandard jobs compared to my friends? God please help to show me that all things were done for the betterment of my life???" Something like this la? So do you think that God did these things for a reason or is it because of our disobedience? Anyways blessings on this world is nothing compared to the blessings of eternal life, right? But never the less it doesn't mean you cannot look to God and start trusting that he is the one who provides all our need through various means. He is our very GREAT Reward back in the days of Moses until Today. Problem is, we keep looking to our own ability to gather wealth, through our education, skills, connection, what not. That has always been the stumbling block to believing God for providence. This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 5 2015, 07:19 PM |
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Mar 5 2015, 07:30 PM
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#140
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QUOTE(14-9-2015 @ Mar 5 2015, 07:10 PM) dear brounknown warrior Why do you think God can use people like me? Someone who never think much about the OT laws, is not perfect as vile as that dying thief and has many flaws and yet our Heavenly Father answers my prayers.if u post ur devotionals in here, then isn't it natural to accept scrutiny & even correction sometimes? i've been following since V05 & jul has been pretty decent in the way he debates ur posts. maybe u are greatly offended whn ppl correct u? his doctrinal explanations have been concise & very understandable. i'm pentecostal like u guys too i'm probably just the 2nd person in here to say this, but u DO have an obsession with GRACE vs LAW, to the point whr ur interpretations ermmm......can sometimes sound off by quite a bit actually.........at least to me. perhaps its got somethg to do wif how u view biblical teachings, due to ur conversion frm a Buddhist background(years ago)-----> Christianity i'm a 2nd-gen Christian, so i've got no such experience at all. GRACE & LAW have always been pretty clear cut to me. i do give u lots of credit though, for teaching correct stuff majority of the time dun angry I'll tell you why. Grace. God wants his people to change their mindset that only certain type of qualified "spiritual class" of high level "Christians" can do this. To Come to Him as they are and To be able to receive effortlessly from GOD! If it happen to me, it can happened to anyone who comes to God understanding that his Grace is more than sufficient. Not the Law. |
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