Adrianocy,

Check the investment thread. Someone claim that the fee is very high for this investment option and you get better return with FD since there is NO fee.

Dreamer

Doremon,

The problem with doing unethical and illegal stuff is you only need to get caught ONCE. Then, you go to jail and your whole life is destroyed. Is it really worth it??

Reputation is one of those thing that you may not think it worths something. But, as soon as you lose it, you will know how valuable it is. You and your family will live with it for the rest of your life.

Dreamer

P.S.: There is a significant difference between being selfish and stupid versus selfish and smart. You may not care about others aka selfish. But, doing unethical and illegal stuff is just plain stupid. Is the reputation of your whole life only worth a few thousand dollars?? That is stupidity. If it is a few million s dollars and you do not have to work for the rest of your life, it might worth the risk.


This post has been edited by dreamer101: Oct 5 2006, 08:39 AM

Doremon,

<< Cara A - Gunakan dividen untuk bayar semula pinjaman

Hasil pengiraan saya menggunakan software Optimoney, jika dividen 7% setahun atau RM 7,000 itu dibayar semula kpd bank untuk mengurangkan baki pinjaman anda, loan ASB anda dijangka selesai dalam masa 7 tahun 6 bulan dengan jumlah pembayaran penuh hampir RM 120,827 (termasuk deposit RM5,000 dan dividen RM7,000 yg dibayar semula setiap tahun)

Ini bermakna, anda terpaksa membayar RM 120,000 untuk mendapatkan RM 100,000 selepas 7-8 tahun. Untung atau rugi?

Jika anda labur RM 731 ke dalam ASB setiap bulan selama 8 tahun pun, simpanan anda akan menjadi RM 94,260. Campur deposit RM 5,000 yang disimpan untuk 8 tahun juga, nilai pelaburan selepas 8 tahun adalah RM 8,590.

Total nilai pelaburan anda = 102,850. Dah lebih RM 100,000 dah.>>

You put in 5K and take a 95K ASB loan. You take the dividend to pay off the loan. You only actually ONLY put in RM8,590 across 8 years. But, you get $102,850 after 8 years.

How many percents of return is that?

Please tell me why a Bumi cannot be rich with scheme like this?? And, there are very few bumi that invest up 250K at ASB. They only need 5K to start.

Dreamer

P.S.: The calculation is simpler than that. As long as the ASB's dividend rate is higher than the ASB loan, you get positive cash flow aka you get more money. So, you should take as much ASB loan as possible and buy ASB up to the max. Then, use the positive cash flow to pay off the ASB's loan earlier.


This post has been edited by dreamer101: Feb 12 2007, 03:33 AM

Mucklampir,

1) It is ONLY 5K plus 1 years payment to start. Read the article again. You use the dividend plus a bit more to pay each month. If you delay buying the car and suffer for one year, you have the money.

2) Who cares how much the bank makes?? The KEY question is how much you make.

<< once i meet someone who received 'letter' from the bank becoz unable to make monthly payment(i dont know his fate now). it is still a loan afterall >>

3) Most likely, the person spent the dividend as opposed to using the dividend to pay the loan.

4) Yes, it is riskier than FD.

5) Do not buy car until you can afford it. Do not buy house until you can afford it. Do not get married until youc an afford. Do not have kids until you can fford it. It is always your choice.

Please explain to me how a non-bumi can get rich with the same kind of limitations and no easy money making scheme like ASB. They do (5).

Dreamer

1) Who say so?? What other investment scheme has BETTER return than this?? Tell me one.

2) You are FORGETTING a very simple fact. You are only putting in 20K. And, you earn 10K per year out of those 20K. What other kind of investment give you that kind of return?? You have to be a loan shark to get this kind of return.

3) A lot of people are getting rich from this. They just choose not to tell you.

4) Of course, this will only works if you have the discipline of NOT spending the dividend.

The KEY question is do you believe that the ASB dividend rate will always be higher than the ASB loan interest rate. If you do, this is free money for you.

Do the calculation a few times. Do NOT blindly trust anyone.

Dreamer

---

Added on February 13, 2007, 12:09 pmWhen you had faced starvation before, you know that everything is a choice.

Dreamer

---

Added on February 13, 2007, 12:36 pmActually, if you really use ALL your dividend to pay the loan, the loan is pay off in less than 10 years!!!

So, you put in 20K and you get 20K every year for 100% return per year.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Feb 13 2007, 12:36 PM

1) Go back to original post. Dividend from ASB is higher than monthly payment of ASB loan. So, you can pay down the principal every year. You can pay off the loan in less than 10 years. That gives you a return of 20+%.

2) It is pointless of argue about whether it is enough to be rich. Why each and every bumi do not have at least this 200K of free money?? The non-bumi definitely DO NOT has this free money. So, bumi can be richer with this scheme. Why this is NOT happening? I will take this money any time if I can.

The bottom line conclusion is very simple. It is very easy for bumi in Malaysia to have up to 200K worth of asset. And, this has been available for the last 30 years.

Dreamer

mucklampir,

1) It is YOU who is taking the ASB loan. So, you could make sure that you ONLY take the ASB loan that allow you to pay off the loan earlier.

2) Who say you must take a 200K loan?? It can be 50K, 100K or even 10K?

3) You confused yourself with a lot of unnecessary numbers. It is actually very very simple.

You take a loan to buy X. X giver your dividend rate of 7%. The loan interest rate is 6%. So, X is paying you (7% -6%) = 1% every year. It is a positive cash flow. As long as dividend rate is higher than loan interest rate, this investment give you money every year.

So, if X is 200K, you get 200K * 1% = 2K more each year.

4) Monthly payment is depending on term of the loan ( 10 year, 20 years, 30 years). You could make the term of the loan as long as possible (30 years) so that you have low monthly payment and your annual dividend check is big enough to cover the monthly payment. As long as (1) is satisfied, eventhough the term is 30 years, you could payoff earlier if you have more dividend.

5) We have NOT even factor in the bonus that you get from ASB every year. The return is even higher.

6) You should setup a separate A/C where the monthly ASB loan is paid automatically. Every year, you deposit your dividend check into this A/C. Then, you do not have to do anything for one more year. It is fully automatic. Just forget that you have this money.

If you are uncomfortable with this scheme, just buy ASB and re-invest the dividend every year. But, you are leaving free money on the table.

There is ONLY one KEY question. Will the ASB dividend rate higher than the ASB loan interest?? That is all. Monthly payment is determined by the term of the loan.

Dreamer

P.S.: ASB used to give dividend rate of 14%. Do your parent buy ASB?

P.S.2: I learned this from Kiyosaki's books. Instead using the formula for real estate as shown in the book, I am using this for stocks, unit trusts and mutual funds.

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Feb 13 2007, 10:01 PM

So, the bottom line is

Is the dividend rate higher than the total cost of the loan (loan interest plus insurance)?? If it is, take as much loan as possible and make the monthly payment lower than the dividend payment by making the term of the loan as long as possible.

If dividend rate is NOT higher than the total cost of the loan, do not take the loan. Just invest with your own money. This is negative cash flow. The loan take more money out of you than what you get from ASB.

This is my opinion. Redo the calculations to confirm what I am saying.

Dreamer

raidersx7,

Your spreadsheet need to be adjusted. The dividend that a person collected every year is used for the ASB loan payment. It is NOT used to buy more ASB. If a person has the money to pay the ASB loan every year, the person would never need to take to loan to begin with.

Dreamer

ejleemy,

There is a special loan for buying ASB.

Dreamer

ah_suknat,

<<is it possible if i can use my investment in ASB worth 100k to take up a loan for another 100k?>>

Why do you need to do that?? All you have to do is to take a ASB loan to buy 100K of ASB and use that 100K worth of ASB as collateral. You do not need upfront money to buy ASB.

Please tell me why bumi cannot be rich with this kind of ASB scheme. Remember in the old days, the ASB dividend is 14% per year.

Dreamer

---

Added on September 12, 2007, 10:17 amYes. But, it can be no money down and it is higher risk for the bank.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Sep 12 2007, 10:17 AM

Bullshit.

ah_suknat,

The reason why ASB is worth investing in because it is BUMI only while the rest of the ASX is not. Due to NEP, 30% of public listed companies need to have 30% BUMI holding. And, a lot of time, those companies are instructed to sell those 30% holding to ASB. This does not applies to other ASX.

So, ASB is making a lot of money because of NEP. It is EASY to be rich if you are BUMI. The dividend used to be up to 14% per year. You could take a ASB loan (let's say interest rate of 9%) and collect 14% dividend and earn 5% in return. It is FREE MONEY. You do not have to put up your own money. Imagine collecting 5% on 200K for FREE. That is equal to 10K per year.

Nowaday, ASB is still a good deal but less so since more people are sharing the same pool and there are less companies to collect 30%. 50% of KLSE is GLC and GLIC owned. Companies choose not to invest in Malaysia or listed outside of Malaysia.

Dreamer

ah_suknat,

It is up to you and how strongly do you feel about NEP. And, ASB is a good deal now. It may not be in the future. I boycott all 90+% companies. I do not invest on any of those companies because

A) It is morally wrong.

B) They are not good long term investment. There are TOO MUCH political risk.

Dreamer

All,

It is SO SIMPLE that it only take common sense to figure this one out. As long as you understand simple plus and minus, you can know this.

If the bank loan you money at 6.9% and ASB pay you dividend of 7%, you make (7% - 6.9%) = 0.1% every year. This does not take into account of bonus and so on. This is FREE MONEY. You put NOTHING in and you get 0.1% of the whatever loan amount you take. And, if you are discipline enough to do not spend the dividend. Eventually, you will get the ASB free and clear.

The ONLY question that you need to ask is will the ASB dividend ALWAYS HIGHER than bank loan rate?? If yes, you take the ASB loan.

In the old days, the ASB dividend rate was 14% while ASB loan only at 9% to 10%. There is NO REASON why a BUMI cannot be rich in Malaysia with FREE MONEY from ASB.

Dreamer

ejan_,

To make a FAIR and CORRECT comparison , if you take a 10K loan, you do not have to pay RM307 every month.

After the first year, you could have take the 7% dividend = RM700 to pay the loan. So, in the second year, you only put in (RM307 X 12) - Rm700 = ?? ..

Ditto for year 3. Know how to calculate properly.

So, taking a 10K loan versus paying RM307 every month is NOT the same.

The bottom line is VERY SIMPLE. Is the ASB dividend rate higher than your ASB loan rate?? If yes, it is FREE MONEY. You could use the dividend to pay the interest and after a few years, you get the ASB with little money down.

Dreamer

ah_suknat,

Just make sure that if the ASB's dividend rate went down, you still get the ASB. If it is, you make money out of nothing.

Dreamer

---

Added on January 12, 2008, 9:41 amejan_,

You are making money with other people's money and you complain?? With loan, you are making money with other people's money. As long as ASB loan rate is higher than ASB dividend rate, you make money.

<<with loan, dividend is shared with bank.>>

With loan, you could buy more ASB.

<<Without loan, dividend is totally ours. >>

Without loan, you buy less ASB.

<<What if dividend low and BLR high? >>.

That is the risk that you take.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Jan 12 2008, 09:41 AM

Oops!!! You are RIGHT. So, someone is actually reading my post and do some thinking on the side :-)

Dreamer

ah_suknat,

It is actually VERY SIMPLE. Since out of all those ASx, only ASB is BUMI ony, the public companies' 30% can only go to ASB as define by NEP. So, ASB can do those exclusive deal where "BUMI ONLY" is the requirement.

Dreamer

ah_suknat,

BTW, he forgot to tell people that his 12% to 15% is based on after deducting 4% to 5% aka 96% to 95% of the invested amount. For ASB, it is based on 100% invested amount.

So, it is NOT an apple to apple comparison to begin with.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: May 19 2008, 07:49 AM

themattock,

1) It is 200K per person. So, you can put 200K in your name, 200K in your wife's name, 200K in each child and so on.. I do not know what is the age limit for ASB.

2) It is much better if you do not withdraw the dividend from ASB. Then, your principal in ASB will increase above 200K.

3) So, keep some of your money in FD and use that for your living expense while the principal in ASB is growing by 7% to 8% per year.

4) For inflation hedging, buy a house a to live and you will eliminate a large component in housing cost. It may be worthwhile to pay off any loan with high interest rate. By saving 6% to 7% interest payment, it is the same as earning 6% to 7% except safer.

5) It is more complicated than this.

A) What is your monthly living expense?? At least 3 to 6 months should be in FD.

B) In retirement, you probably want to have 1 year to 2 years of living expense in FD.

6) What is your medical insurance coverage?? How old are your children?? Do you need to pay for college?? Are you going to Haj?

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Sep 8 2008, 09:45 AM