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 The Official Lowyat.NET Sintua Thread, A thread on Chinese folk religion.

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SUSredisthcan
post Nov 26 2015, 10:01 PM

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QUOTE(Haylo @ Nov 26 2015, 09:18 PM)
Another question. If a ghost harmed me and I die, can I take revenge?

For example, the ghost in Ju-On movie is a very unreasonable one. If I were to encounter a ghost like that, and she killed me. When I die and become a ghost, can I exert revenge against her ?
For example rape and kill her and hang her ghost head for all other evil ghost to see so that they will know what comes to them if they fuck wit mortal beings?

Then I become like Punisher, lawful neutral. Ghost bounty hunter vigilante and kill all evil ghost but at the same time, avoiding hell official from catching me.

Is this possible?
I am not joking, I entertain these kind of thought when I read about Chinese religion. I cannot find someone else to answer my question seriously.
*
The ghost from Ju On has a great deal of power, built up over a long duration.

A freshly dead soul like you would not last a minute against her.

Contrary to what most people think, becoming a ghost does not grant you any special abilities, at least not immediately.

These have to be developed, which takes considerable effort and time.

To become a hypothetical 'ghost vigilante', you will probably require centuries of cultivation.

The Hell deities do not take kindly to vigilantism, at any rate.

And you don't want to deal with them when they mean business.
SUSredisthcan
post Nov 27 2015, 07:11 AM

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QUOTE(wonglokat @ Nov 26 2015, 10:43 PM)
hi nachsider,

Informative and it helps that you articulate the concepts well. I'm not a believer in this but the thread (and the whole folk religion) is interesting.

I'd like to know what the view is among sintua's adherent regarding the universality of the deities/ghost when it comes to the dead from other parts of the world. 

I've read a few pages back regarding the medium who channeled and spoke in some ancient form of Chinese and did trigger this question that I have.

Pleasant evening.
*
Hi Wong, much obliged for your compliments. I hope to keep this thread informative and entertaining. biggrin.gif

In a nutshell, sintua states that everybody goes to the same afterlife, regardless of country, creed and colour, and that people of different cultures may perceive the same gods slightly differently.

Let me give you a fr'instance.

Where death gods are concerned, Chinese folk religion has the Black and White Brothers (me in the picture, by the way tongue.gif).

user posted image

Haitian Vodou has Baron Samedi.

user posted image

Celtic mythology has Ankou.

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Korean mythology has the Jeosung Saja.

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Why is it that these death gods, each of whom come from very disparate cultures seperated by thousands of miles, are all grim dudes who wear dark clothing and hats? shocking.gif
SUSredisthcan
post Nov 27 2015, 09:56 AM

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Who are the Dragon Kings?

The Long Wang/龙王 or Dragon Kings are reptilian deities who are commonly associated with the watery element and dwell in bodies of water such as oceans, rivers and lakes - each such locale is said to have a Dragon King residing within, along with his retinue of soldiers and officials, all of whom correspond to marine animals (crab troopers, turtle courtiers, prawn guardsmen, crocodile generals, fish footmen and so on).

They are said to control the weather (particularly rainfall) and the tides, and are therefore petitioned by farmers during times of drought, by fishermen during times of coastal storms, and so on.

Four major Dragon Kings (the Dragon Kings of the Eastern, Western, Northern and Southern Oceans) are considered the 'kings among kings' of their society, and rule over all the rest.

Here are photos of a Dragon King in statue form and being channeled by a medium...

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... plus photos of some of his minions.

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Interestingly, the ancient Aztec people worshiped an aquatic reptilian deity called Tlaloc, who also controlled rainfall.

Compare the Chinese Dragon King and Tlaloc; the similarities are VERY striking. shocking.gif

user posted image

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SUSredisthcan
post Nov 27 2015, 04:25 PM

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QUOTE(dp82 @ Nov 27 2015, 03:41 PM)
Wow! All the while i thought he exist in the movie only...
*
The Monkey King was being prayed to LONG before Wu Cheng En wrote Journey to the West. wink.gif
SUSredisthcan
post Nov 29 2015, 06:57 PM

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QUOTE(Haylo @ Nov 27 2015, 05:44 PM)
You meant Hanuman? Can you do a write up on Sun Wukong and Piggy? Can help clear up our misunderstanding of them all this time due to TVB Drama.
Hanuman and the Chinese Monkey King are not the same monkey.

A write-up on the Monkey King will be very long and I'm not sure if I have the time to do that, at least not now.

Ask specific questions about specific issues and I will give you specific answers.
SUSredisthcan
post Nov 29 2015, 07:01 PM

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QUOTE(dragynraken @ Nov 28 2015, 05:12 PM)
Only Sandy the 3rd brother & the dragon turn to horse is not real but who knows.
*
All of them are real, after a fashion.

And none of them. wink.gif
SUSredisthcan
post Dec 1 2015, 12:38 AM

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QUOTE(feynman @ Nov 30 2015, 11:43 PM)
How about Shangdi, 上帝. ?

What do you know about 上帝?
*
I'm assuming you are referring to whomever created the universe.

The original progenitor.

As per Chinese folk religion, he has long since departed for places unknown, leaving the management of his creation to the various gods and goddesses who are his subordinates.

He is more or less irrelevant now.
SUSredisthcan
post Dec 1 2015, 08:56 PM

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QUOTE(feynman @ Dec 1 2015, 08:16 PM)
What more can you say about this entity?

As recent as the Qing Dynasty, Shangdi was worshipped by the emperor at the Temple of Heaven.....and the Qing Dynasty lasted for about 300 years with the Mandate of Heaven so.....the departure shouldn't be to far back. no?

Can a kedai sembahyang cina make a 神位 for shangdi?
*
Nothing much else, to be honest. Like I said, he is largely irrelevant now that he is long gone, and therefore doesn't interest me all that much. All evidence is that he is/was a very hands-off creator who wasn't too particular about making his identity well-known.

You cannot use that event as a gauge of when the departure occurred, lol. People knocking on the guy's door doesn't necessarily mean he has been at home anytime recently.

Most prayer material shops produce altars to the Heavenly Hosts in general (see below); these Heavenly Hosts could conceivably encompass Shang Di, so such altars really should suffice.

user posted image
SUSredisthcan
post Dec 1 2015, 09:21 PM

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QUOTE(Haylo @ Dec 1 2015, 07:56 PM)
Where does Sakyamuni(Buddha) comes into play in Sintua? What is Buddha's position? Are there any Sakyamuni mediums?

Since 天篷元帥 is one of the 9 emperor, where does piggy come from if he is not 天篷元帥?

When you had a chat with Tua Li Ya Pek, did you ask him what Sun Wukong did in hell? Did he mess up hell during his wild days?
Sakyamuni is the supreme leader of the Buddhist pantheon. Chinese folk religion accords him the same degree of respect as it does the Jade Emperor. The highest ranking Buddhist entity whom mediums channel is Guan Yin, so no - there are no Sakyamuni mediums.

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As per the earliest version of his legend, Piggy was the anonymous chauffeur/charioteer of Lady Dou Mu, the mother of the Nine Emperors. She fired him for being drunk on duty and making an ass of himself, following which he was expelled from Heaven and born into the mortal world as a pig-half-man. This legend has its origins in the fact that Dou Mu's familiar animal is the boar, and she is often depicted as either riding a boar or riding in a chariot drawn by several boars.

user posted image

The Monkey King's exploits in the realm of the dead are very well documented and really do not require any further elucidation. I try not to re-open old wounds when I have chats with deities; the hatchet has been long buried and that is that.

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SUSredisthcan
post Dec 1 2015, 10:50 PM

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QUOTE(simonhtz @ Dec 1 2015, 10:41 PM)
Hi guys,

I hope this is the correct channel for me to ask my question here.

I just invited guan yin to my new place and initiated a new home ritual. My wife and I are only staying through the weekends. Cabinets, Internet and TV are not in yet, so there's isn't much of a incentive staying at our new place. We do, however drop by every alternate day to burn incense for guan yin.

This has been going on for a while. Fast forward next year, I'm relocating to Singapore for work. I foresee I won't come back so often here. My wife will stay back, but I foresee she will be joining me over in Singapore. So, what we do with guan yin.

Coming back and burn incense every weekend, would that suffice to keep guan yin happy? Any frequency that I can be absent from my home without invoking ill-feelings with guan yin?

Additinal info, I'm atheist. I'm doing this so that my wife and her family will be at ease.
*
Hello Simon, this is, indeed, the correct place to ask your question. smile.gif

Guan Yin is the Goddess of Mercy - a compassionate and understanding deity.

She has a big heart, and is most definitely NOT the sort of person who will grumble or grouse about something so petty as people not burning incense for her at a specific time.

While dropping in once a week to offer her incense is certainly acceptable, let me tell you that it is definitely possible to move her to Singapore with you.

Go consult whomever helped you invite her home regarding the necessary rites to do this.

You have kept a very admirable commitment to her thus far, especially considering that you are an atheist - more so than many self-proclaimed devotees, as a matter of fact.

Much respect to you. notworthy.gif
SUSredisthcan
post Dec 2 2015, 10:39 PM

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QUOTE(Haylo @ Dec 2 2015, 09:41 PM)
Nachtsider,

I just saw another thread talk about third eye. They saw ghost roaming around. Those are the one that hell police are trying to catch?

Also, do you have a starter pack for ghost hunter vigilantism/bounty hunter?

For example, third eye(to see ghost), the cobra whip, the wooden sword, bagua, talisman and amulet?

I know I sound really sohai asking all this question but I am serious, these are the questions I have been asking myself since I was child.
*
Some of the spirits visible to those with the second sight are those who have yet to be collected by the Hell deities, yes.

As for 'ghost hunter vigilantism' - c'mon, man, don't be daft.

Leave stuff like this to the professionals, and NEVER try to activate your second sight.
SUSredisthcan
post Dec 2 2015, 10:47 PM

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QUOTE(dragynraken @ Dec 2 2015, 10:45 PM)
Not all roaming spirit can be catch. Spirit have a lot levels and they may reside in different plane or different dimension. Some wandering spirit can be even more powerful than ghost police. So having sacred weapon doesn't mean you can win any fight.
*
Such beings tend NOT to be the souls of dead people.
SUSredisthcan
post Dec 2 2015, 11:06 PM

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QUOTE(dragynraken @ Dec 2 2015, 11:02 PM)
Do they catch non human dead soul?
*
They come to collect anyone or anything that has died a natural or scheduled death.

Those who die unnatural or premature deaths may not necessarily come to their attention and may thus go uncollected, at least initially.
SUSredisthcan
post Dec 2 2015, 11:37 PM

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QUOTE(dragynraken @ Dec 2 2015, 11:11 PM)
Which mean accident, being killed or suicide they dint come?
*
Not always.

Hence the fact that the ghosts of such victims sometimes continue to linger.
SUSredisthcan
post Dec 3 2015, 11:15 AM

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QUOTE(Zozi @ Dec 3 2015, 10:55 AM)
Finally finished reading phew! Good thread, thanks for sharing the library of good info here. Definitely an eye opener and should serve those whom are interested well.

I just have some questions, out of curiosity and some questions are based on my own faith and its interpretation of things, just wanna see your opinion on this.
1) After a person dies, they will all go to hell to serve their punishment and then reincarnate or somewhat get ascended to heaven right ? My question is, are all newborns , result of reincarnation ? If so, the rising number of population today, would it mean that some newborns are from "New" souls? Thank you.

2) I am a shamanist and in our belief, there are several realms after death. Those who subscribed to other faiths will end up on "The other side of the river" and will be subjected to their faith's law, whereas we, will return to this world as a spirit guarding the nature, or reborn as a tree. This is why Shamanist takes great care and pride about nature and its creation. My question is, do the hell deities also collect souls outside their devotee's territory ? Lets say a Caucasian passed away in USA right now, will the black and white brothers be there ? Will they be communicating with the soul in English or will the soul remember its roots in Hokkien ? Thanks.

3) TS, with your vast experience in witnessing trances, can you share with us a few memorable questions asked by devotees and the deity's answer to them ? (I am really curious about this, I am sure some of you are too) . Thanks.

4) Some temples in Thailand, supposedly buddhist temples, has urns containing young unborn souls. I have heard they remain in the temple so that the monk's prayers can help them attain peace. Do the hell authorities actually allow this ? Thanks.
Hello Zozi, glad you've enjoyed the ride thus far. It's far from over, mind you, so keep hanging on tight and stay tuned. biggrin.gif

1. Not all newborns are the result of reincarnation; fresh souls can and do get produced. That being said, bear in mind that animals can be reborn as human beings and vice versa.

2. Take a look back here:

QUOTE(nachtsider @ Nov 27 2015, 07:11 AM)
In a nutshell, sintua states that everybody goes to the same afterlife, regardless of country, creed and colour, and that people of different cultures may perceive the same gods slightly differently.

Let me give you a fr'instance.

Where death gods are concerned, Chinese folk religion has the Black and White Brothers (me in the picture, by the way tongue.gif).

user posted image

Haitian Vodou has Baron Samedi.

user posted image

Celtic mythology has Ankou.

user posted image

Korean mythology has the Jeosung Saja.

user posted image

Why is it that these death gods, each of whom come from very disparate cultures seperated by thousands of miles, are all grim dudes who wear dark clothing and hats?  shocking.gif
*
The message that I'm imparting is that EVERYONE goes to the same Hell regardless of colour and creed, and that the death gods from different cultures are actually the same guys, perceived differently. As for methods of communication, bear in mind there are such methods that completely transcend spoken words, language and dialect. Linguistic barriers simply do not exist in the unseen realm.

3. One of my favourite exchanges went as follows. A devotee asked a Chinese Hell deity about who created Heaven and Earth, how long it took for the universe to be made, whether or not dinosaurs were part of the equation, if evolutionary theory held any water, and so on.

His reply was epic: "How the heck should I know? I'm just the guy who collects the souls of the dead." tongue.gif

4. This is only permitted under very exceptional circumstances - e.g. if the guardianship is performed by authorised religious specialists/clergy, and for good reasons, e.g. to heal traumatically deceased souls of their anguish. 'Ownership' of such entities by private individuals, particularly for shady purposes such as 'luck enhancement' and the like, is akin to slavery/forced labour and highly illegal.
SUSredisthcan
post Dec 3 2015, 11:22 AM

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QUOTE(dp82 @ Dec 3 2015, 10:09 AM)
Can share more details about King Yama of hell?
*
Take a look back here:

QUOTE(nachtsider @ Jan 14 2015, 07:30 PM)
The Chinese Hell is divided into Ten Courts/地狱十殿. The First Court is where souls are judged for their wrongdoings, the Second to Ninth Courts are where souls undergo penance or punishment for their misdeeds, and the Tenth Court is where souls are sent to be reincarnated after they serve their sentences.

Courts 1-9 each have two levels, totalling 18 - the Eighteen Levels of Hell/地狱十八层. Each level is very vast, akin to a huge complex of correction facilities, prison cells and torture chambers. The lower numbered Courts/Levels are like low-security facilities, for minor offenders, and the higher numbered Courts/Levels are like maximum-security facilities, for the worst offenders. Court Nine/Level 17-18 would therefore be a much worse place to be in than Court Two/Level 3-4.

Take note, however, that not all penance involves blood, gore and violence. Minor misdeeds may be addressed with tasks such as studying/reproducing holy texts, or terms of servitude under a deity or deities. Also, punishments always take into consideration the context/circumstances of a misdeed. Judgement is eminently fair.

Each Court is presided over by a Judge with a kingly rank - a King of Hell/阎罗王. The leader of the Ten Judges/Ten Kings holds the title of Imperial Magistrate/阎罗天子 - he is none other than the legendary Justice Bao/包公大人.

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There is no single 'King Yama' - rather, there are ten 'Yama Kings' or Kings of Hell/阎罗王, also known as the Ten Judges.

That being said, the entity whom most people usually refer to when they say 'King Yama' is the leader of the Ten Judges, who rules over the Fifth Court of Hell.

He holds the title of Imperial Magistrate/阎罗天子, and is none other than Justice Bao/包公大人, the legendary judge who went down in history for his impartiality and detective skill.

user posted image

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SUSredisthcan
post Dec 3 2015, 07:38 PM

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QUOTE(dragynraken @ Dec 3 2015, 05:49 PM)
There is taoist talisman that can use for activation when carry it. So far they use it to locate the entity or for fight. They also advice normal human don't do it or ask for it.
*
Using a talisman to see ghosts is not the same as activating your second sight.
SUSredisthcan
post Dec 3 2015, 07:47 PM

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QUOTE(PhakFuhZai @ Dec 3 2015, 12:24 PM)
how is the sintua, buddhism, taoism, and even the japanese shinto mingling with each other? i mean not the believers themselves, but rather at the belief's level

as they have tremendous area of overlapping in these few faiths, albeit with slightly different interpretations regarding certain areas
There is some overlap between sintua, Buddhism and Taoism, in that sintua reveres a number of entities that Buddhism also reveres (e.g. Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva) and Taoism also reveres (e.g. the Nine Emperor Gods).

However, sintua interprets and reveres these entities in different ways from their originating faiths (personifying Avalokitesvara as Guan Yin, for instance, and stating that the Nine Emperor Gods were incarnated as humans at one point).

Sintua also has unique elements of its own - it reveres entities that Buddhism and Taoism either do not acknowledge or pay very little attention to (e.g. Na Zha, Zhong Kui, the various Hell deities, Datuk spirits and so on), and incorporates ritual procedures that neither Budhism nor Taoism perform (e.g. channeling the gods through spirit mediums).

Orthodox Buddhism and orthodox Taoism regard a number of sintua practices to be heretical, if not outright the work of the devil.
SUSredisthcan
post Dec 3 2015, 07:55 PM

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QUOTE(dp82 @ Dec 3 2015, 07:05 PM)
Didnt know Justice Bao serves hell..
*
You do now. smile.gif

He has always been a major player in the realm of darkness.

user posted image
SUSredisthcan
post Dec 4 2015, 03:48 PM

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QUOTE(Wolves @ Dec 4 2015, 01:58 PM)
But then you got a big problem. In buddhism, to achieve enlightenment, you need to cultivate yourself and one of the effects are to achieve that said feats. So, in other words sintua does not encourage its believer to seek enlightenment? if they do, then why tell ppl not to activate the second sight when its one of required and preferred effects? This is where i start to think "feel" funny. That is what i think la.
*
Since when is activating the second sight a prerequisite to attaining enlightenment, or an effect of such? rclxub.gif

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