Why not? From that particular standpoint (being based upon myths), it's really no worse than any other faith.

This post has been edited by nachtsider: Feb 6 2015, 02:51 PM

Erm, okay. But why would people worship a myth?

Why, you ask?

Take a look at some of them.

A pair of hard-drinking, chain-smoking undead policemen who go around collecting the souls of the newly dead, and subduing evil spirits.

A magic monkey who is virtually indestructible, capable of 72 different transformations, wields a collapsible cudgel and is able to fashion virtually anything from his hairs, including an army of clones who can do his bidding.

A mystic knight-errant who wields a magic whip that transforms into a ferocious giant cobra, flies through the air with the aid of fiery roller skates and roams the land, righting wrongs and fighting injustices.

That's METAL, dude.

Face it - the Chinese gods are pretty darned cool.

Err...what you've just described is how a football fan would have behaved to anything to do with football. But you don't see football being treated as a religion, no?

Have you been to Brazil?

Nope. I know they are fanatics, but football is only a type figurative/metaphorical religion per se.

And I don't think people will consider defining a mere metaphor as an actual religion.

Come, Let me shed some wisdom on this topic for you. As i had mentioned before, i am not sin tua people. I am more of what they called a person with too much time to find out things to learn. This toad has sparked my curiosity a few year ago as i am moving into the business field. I actually owned one facing my cashier. For its origin and legend, I will use the wikipedia and the link is as follow:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jin_Chan

The toad is called chan chu. However, there are other names for it as well. As for its summary, It is not a sin tua religion but more of a feng shui part. Chan Chu was originally a human, a wife of the 8 immortals in the chinese god mythlogy. This 8 immortals were mentioned in sintua religion as well. Anyway, due to women's "sin", the women is turned into a toad and a few centuries later, the toad was seen with liu hai, a chinese alchemist (or doctor if you wish to call him that way). Liu Hai learned the secret of immortality from this chan chu and it is fabled that he had been using chan chu to "travel" instantly (as in teleport) all over the place. On a side note that the wikipedia did not mention is that chan chu has a large thirst for water and therefore always escapes and run away to drink water and liu hai will use a string of "gold coins" just to lure it back. This has been shown by today's statue of chan chu whichs always have a string of gold coins around its mouth.

Now we go back to the relevence of chan chu to feng shui. it is a symbol for wealth and prosperity in feng shui. It is used to fetch wealth as well as to protect them as seen on its statue by standing over "treasures". It also has the ability to dispel bad lucks. On the reason why your grandfather has such a device and the timing of the toad facing which direction, you have to know chan chu's characteristic.

There are some do(s) and dont(s) for chan chu. as said on the wikipedia, it should not face the doors. The rational behind this is that chan chu appears once in a "blue moon" (ie seldom/rare) and if it appears, it will bring wealth and luck. So if you put them facing the doors, it will "run away" with your wealth and luck. Hence, "do not let it escape" analogy. The exception this is if you put it facing your garden with no doors in sight. A lot of people place this toad facing their garden with a small pond with no gates or door at sight. As mention above, chan chu has a large thirst for water and likes to stay around water sources. It is said that chan chu works best if you let it "roam" around but do not let it escape. Therefore, the third thing to remember is you should let it roam around and therefore it should be placed close to the floor. If you place it too high, the toad might be afraid to hop down and therefore might not have any effect. Place it close to floor so it can hop down and roam around to find money and then bring back to the "house".

By that, it should explains that your grandfather's house has that kind of device. During the day, the device face outside into the garden to let it go out and roam around to find money/wealth and by the evening, the toad's direction is changed so the toad will come back with the day's finding and let it stay in the house while protecting the wealth. This is also shown by having the toad standing on heaps of treasure and with the coins in its mouth.

Another few ways to use it is like what i do. I put it on the floor hidden from plain sight and facing the counter not very far away. But all those are more of fengshui than actual religion issue. I found out all these details a few years back and these are what i still remember of it.

Edited for Joey Christensen benefit to read. I hope you will not scold me again. thousand apologies.

This post has been edited by Wolves: Feb 7 2015, 11:40 AM

i think i need to step in here before you two start to quarrel hmmm... nachtsider means no harm and maybe did not elaborate enuf for you to understand... let me try to shine a torch or two here... all these "myths" beings... or so called "deities".. or "god" by some.. they were all once a human and accomplised great feats or virtues.. that the "higher beings" deitified them.. and gave them relevant "jobs" to what their are capable of when they are mortal.. and these mortals has touched ppl of the world when they are still alive.. think of it as a hero to common ppl.. so out of respect they sort of "pay respect" or if you want to called it.. idolize or worship.. the point is not all "idolised" humans get deitified.. these are rare exceptions and they had "shown" in their own way they still influence the earth..

anyway.. all these good mortals that has been "Deitified" are of good virtue.. they show devotion and stuff.. by "worshipping" them.. it reminds us that we should be "good"... i think that is the biggest point of it.. you dont see ppl "worship" "deities" that ask you to kill around do you? or act as prostitute? or do bad stuff? no right? thats the point of it.. and what they are actually doing.. well.. as far as i can see is "pay respect" to these beings.. just like we would to an elderly ppl like grandparents? we visit them.. feed them.. feast with them.. accompany them.. talk to them... and so on and so forth.. and when in trouble we find them.. ask for help.. they try within their means... bla bla bla... to me... its just that.. OF COZ sin tua religion got MORE stuff like parade and stuff... but lets put it this way.. the deities are not "young" plus they are "deities".. they deserve MORE RESPECT and have been doing their JOB for the benefits of humans? so i think those are more or less justified for them since they been doing a lot of stuff for a very very very very very long time and ... as i say.. just as a sign of showing respect to them? and each of them have some slight differences.. like everybodies grandparents have some slight differences? well.. thats all i think lar.. dunno if you can accept this explanation...

This post has been edited by Wolves: Feb 6 2015, 05:14 PM

Wolves As much as I love to read, but seriously, you really need to learn paragraphing and avoid littering with a lot of ellipses in your wall of text .

Reading your postings caused severe headache for me and in the end, I just skip reading your posting entirely.

sorry, i wish to make some correction. First you mention buddism and the indian prince is "Siddhārtha Gautama, or AKA Buddha". I would like to correct the buddha part. It should be AKA Buddha Shakyamuni. There is more than one buddha and he is one of them. Secondly I agree with most part of your explaination except the last few paragraphs.

As I mentioned, people who actually contributed to humanity and touches the heart of the "Angels/God/Spirits" whatever you call them will be deitified. And another attributes you should not forget is these "people" will influences the earth as in they will return and continue to "help" the people of this world. a lot of people get idolized and "pay respect" to. But it doesnt mean all of them is deitified. I hope you get what i mean. and through constant "returning" to the world and helping the people in this earth, their influences does not perished like the other idolised but not deitified people. and as time after time has tested its "existence" of such deitified spirits, it evolves into the so called sintua religion. and i do not believe the last sentence at all. but that is my understanding and i could still be wrong.


my apologies, i will tried my best here to do as you said master. please forgive me. old habits die hard you know

This post has been edited by Wolves: Feb 7 2015, 11:10 AM

Joey Christensen. I have edited the post about the chan chu for your ease of reading. I apoligise again for its raw and unrefined formed. I will not edit the rest though as I think its too hard for me plus I doubt people will go back to re-read all of it

Erm...You don't have to do so. Maybe the subsequent postings (hereafter). Nevertheless, it's a good effort.

Satanism and the recent resurgence of Norse paganism would disagree with you.

nachtsider your thread is indeed very interesting.

May I please request you to explain the various prayers, offerings and rituals during Chinese New Year, so that those who are reading can gain great benefits from it.

Interesting.

Does the Sintua folk religion also answer questions in regards to the grey areas of morality, where things aren't as simple as black and white, and right and wrong?

善恶分明, telling good from evil and right from wrong, is a slogan that the Chinese Hell deities are renowned for.

Being the spiritual police force and judicial system, it is their job to carefully examine such matters and pass the fairest possible judgement or implement the most just solution.

You know what they say - evil triumphs when good men do nothing.

A verdict of 'justifiable homicide' would probably be passed.

You mean the Sintua folk religion teaches that it is okay to murder a person, as long that murder results in the salvation of more lives?

What if the person who is being murdered is innocent?

Look at you, shifting those goalposts, lol.

Didn't you say that five lives were hanging in the balance because of this person?

That hardly makes him innocent.

I will say that he will then raise this sort of question: