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 Fully BF but low birth weight, can formula milk help?

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powdersnow
post Jan 6 2015, 09:43 AM

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I think we r missing the fact that formula milk can never replace breastmilk. 2 major ingredients that cannot be replicated: Antibodies and hormones present in breastmilk. The hormones in breastmilk produced at night are important to regulate baby's circadian rhythm. When baby is infected with something, he transfer the infection to mother thru breastfeeding, and by the next feed the mother produces and transfer the antibodies back to the baby.

Go to a lactation consultant if u r very determined to continue breastfeeding. Let the consultant check ur latching. Sometimes baby does not latch right and does not get enough calories from feeds, hence low weight gain. But this comes with other signs such as very frequent feeds, explosive green poo, gassiness etc.

My baby is 7 weeks old and feeds 10-15mins per breast hourly. At night he wakes to feed every 2 o 3 hrs. Early on he was 20-30mins per breast.
powdersnow
post Jan 6 2015, 10:45 AM

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On the contrary, breastfeeding babies consume n need much less milk to be satisfied (19-30oz up to 6mths). It is also impossible to pump out milk to see how much bb consumes as bb is much more efficient than breast pump. As you do not know the exact amount a bb needs, and by the fact that bottle fed babies always overfeed, you would never know how much to supplement ur bb. Hence when bb is fed formula, he will be full and skip his next supposed breastfeed. Automatically, when he does not empty the breast, the breast signals the body to produce less milk (so ur breast will not burst) and so ur supply will drop.

Similar to bad latch o breastmilk oversupply (when u overpump) overfeeding on formula (as babies harder to be satisfied on bottle compared to less milk from breast and so will consume more than he needs) will produce lactose overload (milk spitting, gassiness, explosive poop). U will need to control the amt he feeds.

Formula feeds affect breastfeeding. Eg. When u breastfeed 25oz today n he wants 26oz n cries but u pop him a bottle of 2oz so he consumes 27oz n is full hence skips the next feed. Automatically full breast signals body to produce 24oz. The day after, bb cries bcos he only gets 24oz and u giv 3oz instead, hence drop in supply.

The right way to deal when bb wants increase in supply is to encourage him to empty the breast more. When bb wants 26oz, let him nurse more often, letting him empty the breast after 25oz signals to the body to produce more. So let him suckle and nurse more when he cries. By the next day o the day after the body would hav increased supply and he will return to normal nursing frequency.
powdersnow
post Jan 6 2015, 10:53 AM

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Also note that WHO produces 2 types of charts: For breastfed and the other for formula fed babies. Make sure ur Dr knows which chart he is using. If he doesn't know this, u need to change ur doctor.
powdersnow
post Jan 7 2015, 11:02 AM

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QUOTE(supersound @ Jan 6 2015, 07:27 PM)
For sure using pump won't be accurate. But that can serve as guide how much milk you can produce. That's why certain pump having variable speed. You can use minimum and see how much and maximum how much.
Babies can keep on sucking until they give up sucking, this is very bad. Have to know that, breast milk contains 88% of water.
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Formula milks similarly contain 80% water. But both milks have high caloric content even with high amounts of water. Need to stress here again breast is still best.

Babies that give up sucking is due to bad latch as you can never fully empty a breast. Firstly a breast can never be empty as when the breast is empty more milk will be produced immediately. Even with good latch by baby and breast compressions, the breast can at max empty 75-80%, and in this case the breast speeds up production to keep up with demand.
powdersnow
post Jan 7 2015, 09:37 PM

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QUOTE(supersound @ Jan 7 2015, 11:14 AM)
Emmm, depending on how many scoops used and how much water per session. Mine are always put extra 5ml of water.
I never said before that breast milk are not good, infact it is the best in this world. Sadly, my wife refuse to breast feed our baby.
Your theory may work for mothers on last generation, not current generation. Some mothers really can't produce enough milk(or can I say they are lazy?)
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5ml does not seem much, but for unaware mothers here, formula feedings are very specific. Not following the exact measurements specified by the formula manufacturer will affect baby. Additional powder leads to constipation while overdilution leads to to lower caloric weight and nourishment per feed, hence affecting baby's health.

No, it is not a theory neither is it mine. It is a fact that even with a good latch and breast compressions, u will never fully empty a breast. Ie. There is such thing as mothers not producing enough milk, however it is EXTREMELY RARE.

The more common case is that the nursing mother is being told by their mothers, MIL, doctors, nurses, pediatricians, husbands etc that their baby did not put on enough weight, and that they do not have enough milk. Rather than being confident abt her breastfeeding, the mother is so afraid of failure of breastfeeding, she will always think and be told she does not have enough milk.

Look at your former classmates, did everyone grow and gain weight at the same pace? Then y would u expect ur child to grow at the same rate?

Mothers are not lazy either, all mothers love and would do their best for their baby.

Get books, seek info online. One book I recommend: Carlos gonzalez breastfeeding made easy.

My bb is fully bf w no pumping, but my MIL n FIL hav told me to go to warehouse sale and purchase formula milk in bulk for bb.

Bf requires confidence w urself as a mother. To believe that evolution preserved the ability for women to develop breasts to nourish ur bb, if it were such a failed mechanism, then obviously it would be evolved out as no bb would hav survived. We were after all, not like men whose breasts they were born w but did not develop. Our breasts developed and have worked to feed so many generations since the birth of mankind.
powdersnow
post Jan 10 2015, 06:22 PM

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Using a breastpump too is misleading. None are accurate. Only bb is. Counting diapers is a helpful guide enough. If u r so obsessed w how much a bb takes, get the bb weighing scale, weigh each time before he feeds, after feeds, poo.. pee..

But ask urself this: Do u know how much spoonfuls of food u take everytime u eat? How much do u know u need? Do u take 100g o 150g vege? What vege type? Type of meat? Do u eat the same amt for breakfast, lunch, dinner, supper, tea, buffet? No, u only eat till ur tummy is full. N if ur bb falls asleep all the time after u bottle feed him might b bcos he was having Christmas dinner n is now sleeping it off!

Similar to bb. Breastmilk is impossible to measure bcos the calories (amt of fat) in breastmilk change according to bb's feeding pattern. Ie: He gets to choose: Frequency of feeds (every half hr, one hr, two..), length of feeds (2mins, 45mins) and one or both breasts. The amt of fat (hence caloric weight) in breastmilk increases w the amt of breastmilk consumed. The last breast he emptied will also have higher amts of fat. Which is more filling? 150g fruit o 150g meat? U will need to consume more fruits to feel full. So, bb gets to choose: More skim milk (foremilk) or lesser amts of the more filling full cream (hindmilk).

What is the best measure? Ur bb. Is he happy? Did he lose weight? Did he gain weight? 200g only? But he did didn't he? So if u ate just enough to survive, would u gain weight? If u r concerned, ask the doctor to do blood tests: If he is normal, happy, hitting dev milestones then obviously even with 200g weight gain ur bb is healthy. The growth chart shows weights of HEALTHY CHILDREN. It is interpreted as so n so percent of bb at tis weight r healthy. So even at 5th percentile, it is interpreted as 5% of TOTAL babies (so many, whole malaysia ald how many bb) r healthy at tis weight. It is only used as a heads up guide for Dr. Is there anything wrong? Well it's the Dr's job to find out isn't it? N y would u force him to eat more than he wants? U will b teaching him to eat more than he needs. That's y babies who breastfeed hav lower risk of obesity.

If bb healthy, ie latches on well, pees n poos well, happy, u hear swallowing sounds, but later cries, fusses, goes on n off on breast:
-most often: Overtired. Why r u trying to feed me? I am tired n want to sleep not feed! Some bb still sleep 14-16hrs, plus half hr nursing every 2hrs would be abt abt 12-14x nursing is total abt 7hrs nursing + 16hrs sleep = 23hrs.... no wonder all he wants to do all day is just nurse and sleep!
-if he wants more milk he simply latches on more frequently to order the breast for more milk. The breast is his slave.
-he fusses at one breast offer him the other (he wants full cream dun wan skim milk now)
-he is full (why is mommy trying to force me to eat more?! Argh!)
-he is alrd so good at getting a lot of milk in short time (2mins n sleeps for 2hrs) why does mommy keep forcing me to take more?

Older babies after 3mths r smarter at rejecting bottles (why doesnt it smell like mommy?) while younger ones will take anything u throw at them.
powdersnow
post Jan 10 2015, 07:35 PM

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Btw if bb milk spits, vomits. It might be reflux, or u might need to consider u r overfeeding him.

Pumping occasionally leads to oversupply, baby consumes too much watery foremilk bcos he tries hard to get the amt of calories he needs (eg trying to get full on fruits) but bb stomach is only such a size so vomits as a result. But this comes w other signs as well.
powdersnow
post Jan 13 2015, 04:14 PM

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Accusing specialists like that are just stereotyping. Dismissing specialist opinion without proper argument may backfire on you instead, bcos contrary to what u think, the specialist was right to say that it is normal for bf babies not to poo for up to 20days.

If you have constipation for 20days do u think u can sit quietly and go on normally?

For a breastfed bb who is happy n healthy except for not pooing for 20days, on day 20th, his poo is just the same as before. Yellow, mustardy poo. Breastmilk is a natural laxative after all.

What goes in must come out does apply, but not so accurately, bcos as baby still wets 6-8diapers (sometimes less bcos older bb bcome good at holding it in but diapers r heavy) he can stop pooing for a no of days and still have soft poo at the end. If he has constipated, he will have hard poo and even so will show signs of discomfort quickly.

We poo bcos we have waste products, substances that cannot be digested or used by the body. Breastmilk is special such that it is able to be completely digested by baby. So as bb's digestion system matures, he digests n takes in everything in the breastmilk completely, causing no waste (no poo) to be left/created. He poos probably bcos he consumed more milk than his body needed (body just took the what they needed from the excess milk) and therefore waste created.

Formula fed bb still produce waste bcos formula was made w cow's milk. Formula is created by treating cow's milk w enzymes to break down the protein in cow's milk bcos these proteins are dangerous to kidney's of bb under 1yr old. Also with the addition of vitamins and minerals added to formula milk tat r not absorbed by bb hence poop.

Interesting to note here it was bcos formula fed bb in the past used to suffer scurvy, rickets and other diseases that caused Dr to recommend solids to be introduced early at 6 mth. This blanket guideline was and is still incorrectly used for breastfed bb. As breastmilk is a COMPLETE FOOD (bb cereal, formula milk is not complete food still lacking nutrients) this should not apply so strictly as the only need is a possible lack of iron post 6mths, tis is only minimum as plenty of bb can have iron stores up to 1yr n more. Indication of lack of iron is poor appetite, but then bb would b losing weight even without intro of solids. If worried, take a blood test to check iron. If all is well, bb does not need to intro solids at 6mths, sometimes up to a yr or more.
powdersnow
post Jan 13 2015, 05:07 PM

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This means, for fully bf bb, beginning 6mths, let him bf, THEN intro complementary foods, if bb fusses n rejects, u dun hav to force, try another time. Breastmilk shud still b his main meal n do not withhold in order to force him solids. If he shows interest in ur food, giv him a lil. If he wants more he will show it. Breastmilk by itself is already high calories. Formula fed bb def needs iron rich foods more as iron in formula x as ez absorb as in bm.
powdersnow
post Feb 16 2015, 04:12 PM

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QUOTE(Amanda85 @ Jan 5 2015, 05:28 PM)
my mum was totally opposite of your mother-in-law. she keep worrying her grandchild starve. i expressed milk for my mum to feed while i was away. she feed up to 4oz every 3 hours when my baby is only 1 month.

birth weight - 3kg. 2 months later - 5.5kg. *sweat*

btw... why do u prefer low DHA milk? my hubby keep worrying that my breastmilk got not enough DHA, due to my reluctance to eat fish. so he keep trying to persuade me to give the baby some formula with rich DHA.
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There is a new notion on uninformed mothers that their breastmilk has insufficient DHA and ARA that are currently being promoted by formula companies.

This notion is WRONG. DHA and ARA are naturally present in breastmilk, formula companies just researched on DHA and ARA and decided to tell the world they finally found something to make formula 1 step closer to breastmilk (yes they have not been able to completely replicate breastmilk yet).

Breastmilk does not lack in any nutrients. Even when DHA varies among fish and non fish eating populations, there is NO PROOF THAT BREASTMILK IS INSUFFICIENT IN DHA. Supplementing nursing mothers with DHA has also not been proven to be beneficial as even though research shows DHA beneficial for infant cognitive and visual development, nobody researched the optimal amount needed or the side effect of overdosing on it. (Populations high in DHA had lower cardiovascular disease but higher stroke)

Fish oil intake also needs to be aware of mercury and other contaminants.

Contaminant issues aside, DHA and ARA are significant for infant neurodevelopment so formula w DHA and ARA are good for babies who are not breastfed.
http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/092208p66.shtml

 

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