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 [V26] Lowyat.Net Mechanical Keyboard Club

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Moogle Stiltzkin
post Dec 24 2014, 12:59 PM

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Mechanical keyboard roundup 2014
http://hothardware.com/reviews/know-your-t...boards-compared

=^-^=; good read for new buyers. it doesn't cover all mkbs e.g. ducky, filco... but still a good read.

the comparison list smile.gif
- Razer BlackWidow Ultimate
- Roccat Ryos MK Pro
- Corsair Gaming K65 RGB
- Tt eSports Poseidon ZX
- Cooler Master QuickFire Rapid-i

This post has been edited by Moogle Stiltzkin: Dec 24 2014, 01:00 PM
Moogle Stiltzkin
post Dec 24 2014, 01:32 PM

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QUOTE(quovadis123 @ Dec 24 2014, 01:19 PM)
Long time no see.  wub.gif

Good read.
Razer BWU and Tt Poseidon are using Kailh switches.
Still, Cherry is the best!  flex.gif

Too bad, the review no compare with Ducky. wub.gif
*
yeh... these review sites tend to only cover brands who bother to send them review units. this tends to lead to a misconception in the roundup that is the only valid choices :} but still doesn't hurt to see what these brands covered have, and to compare them.

thx :} been busy with gaming xd.... strife moba thumbup.gif



QUOTE(pristine @ Dec 24 2014, 01:26 PM)
I'm looking to get a new keyboard for my workplace, the current work ergonomics are killing me.

I'm thinking of getting a 60% layout for portability and to my knowledge there's only the poker 2, kbparadise v60, ducky mini, filco minila and the hhkb available locally. I just have no idea what to go for. Are there any others I should consider? Layout's all the same right, just the switches and build quality difference?

Considering the fact that my office is an open plan I don't think anything with clicks or loud bottoming out sounds will be... acceptable. lol.

I use a ducky tkl mx black at home.

tldr; looking for a 60% mkb for work, no idea what to choose.
*
for work don't get a mkb with so much colored lighting. is very out of place for work environment xd.

for work i find a full standard keyboard with numpad is better compared to tenkeyless. the numpad is very useful (depending if your job does lots of data entry or not)

i strongly recommend cherry mx brown for work and general use :}

This post has been edited by Moogle Stiltzkin: Dec 24 2014, 01:35 PM
Moogle Stiltzkin
post Dec 24 2014, 01:36 PM

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QUOTE(cloud8992 @ Dec 24 2014, 01:34 PM)
ya too bad no ducky  vmad.gif and cherry dying out cause company want to earn money alot going to kailh switches and i find razer really smart after changing to kailh switches the charge people the same until now they having promotion so more people will buy hmmm really smart move.
*
you mean these switches ?
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7911/razer-b...yboard-review/3

user posted image

QUOTE
Although that tiny logo looks like it came out from Star Trek, it actually belongs to Kaihua Electronics (also known as Kailh), a Chinese manufacturer specializing in switches, so it goes without saying that they are the OEM behind Razer's Green and Orange keyboard switches. They are far from a new company; Kailh has been making switches for over two decades, including keyboard switches. However, if someone compares their products to those from Cherry, it becomes apparent that their keyboard-related products are a direct copy of Cherry's designs. This is not illegal, however, as Cherry's patent on mechanical keyboard switches dates back in the early 1980's and thus expired well over a decade ago.

There is no reason that a copy cannot be just as good as or even better than the original. Kailh's reputation however isn't the greatest. Razer claims that their switches not only are just as good as the originals, but they have extended their life expectancy by 10 million keystrokes. Unfortunately, although we do have access to equipment that could be used for durability testing, such equipment's top speed is limited to about one actuation per 0.8 seconds. This means that 60 million keystrokes necessitates a minimum of 556 days to test a single button.

Put another way, if you could type 100 WPM eight hours per day, every day, you would perform around 122 million keystrokes per year...but those would be distributed among all the keys, so perhaps six million strokes on each key. A more likely figure would be at most 5000 words per day, six days per week, which would be 10 million keystrokes per year, or about 500K per key on average. In other words, the durability rating is ludicrous to begin with, as even the original 50 million keystrokes should greatly outlast the lifespan of the user, let alone the keyboard.

If you were to examine the specifications of Razer's new switches, it becomes apparent that their Green and Orange switches are almost identical to the Blue and Brown switches from either Cherry or Kailh respectively. In terms of performance, Razer only reduced the actuation travel from 2.2mm down to 1.9mm (Blue vs Green). The difference is even smaller for the Orange switch, as the Brown switch actuates at 2.0mm.



i've been out of the scene for a while so wasn't aware about these hmm.gif interesting

This post has been edited by Moogle Stiltzkin: Dec 24 2014, 01:37 PM
Moogle Stiltzkin
post Dec 24 2014, 01:42 PM

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QUOTE(nemesis94 @ Dec 24 2014, 01:40 PM)
Any news about the Granite GB? Last I checked at the Massdrop Discussion, it said that it has been shipped. I hope there's no problem about missing keys and whatnot.
*
from what i heard seems to be a geekhack group thing doh.gif you'll probably find out more from there.
Moogle Stiltzkin
post Dec 24 2014, 02:01 PM

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QUOTE(quovadis123 @ Dec 24 2014, 01:59 PM)
Maybe collaboration between Razer engineers and Kailh.  laugh.gif
The green color stem so pretty.  thumbup.gif
*
QUOTE(cloud8992 @ Dec 24 2014, 01:45 PM)
yes razer is using kailh switches just they change the design a bit so that it has a shorter actuation point and put their name on the switches so its looks cooler XD
*
that as may be, i think it will all come down to pricing hmm.gif

but a shorter actuation point is always welcome nod.gif

This post has been edited by Moogle Stiltzkin: Dec 24 2014, 02:02 PM
Moogle Stiltzkin
post Jan 1 2015, 07:19 AM

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ducky shine 4 review. use google to translate to english
http://www.technic3d.com/review/eingabeger...y-shine-4/1.htm

user posted image

This post has been edited by Moogle Stiltzkin: Jan 1 2015, 07:20 AM
Moogle Stiltzkin
post Jan 11 2015, 12:20 PM

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was this posted yet ?

MSI GT80 Titan mechanical keyboard laptop
http://blog.laptopmag.com/msi-gt80-titan-sli-specs
http://www.lowyat.net/2015/01/new-lenovo-y...e-i7-processor/







normally laptops are notorious for not being able to upgrade the main components which most users would do after 5 years or more.

however looking at the youtube demonstration, they show that this laptop was designed to be upgradable. hopefully that means the motherboard and cpu too hmm.gif

but the catch is, they only promise upgrades for 2 generations. so beyond that you will need to get a new laptop.

the intel strategy is a tick tock.... so assuming these 2 generations are tocks only, then maybe it would last long enough to be an okay investment hmm.gif



having said that, for bang for bucks, i've never had quite an issue with laptop chiclet keys and cheaper too. but then again i don't use laptops for competitive gaming so lelz sweat.gif

This post has been edited by Moogle Stiltzkin: Jan 11 2015, 12:31 PM
Moogle Stiltzkin
post Jan 21 2015, 02:51 PM

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modern day cherry mechanical keyboard
http://techgage.com/article/cherry-on-top-...ional-keyboard/


this is not just the switch, but the actual keyboard itself made by Cherry corp.

I own a vintage Cherry keyboard, but the one in the link is CHERRY’s MX-Board 3.0 Professional Keyboard. Click the link to read the review.


PS: the old cherry keyboards were not only good because of their switches, but also because of their higher contrast and durable doubleshot and even some dye sublimated keycaps. But over time they cheapened their products and switched to cheaper types of keycaps. So do keep an eye out for that when reading the review laugh.gif but thats not to say they aren't falling in line with what other mkb brands are offering, but it does give you a history of what their products once were like, and whether they've gone back to their old roots or just followed the todays mkb brand status quo.

This post has been edited by Moogle Stiltzkin: Jan 21 2015, 03:00 PM
Moogle Stiltzkin
post Jan 21 2015, 02:54 PM

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QUOTE(quovadis123 @ Jan 21 2015, 02:45 PM)
If 1:1 of game ratio to typing, then mx brown.
strongly agreed on this point smile.gif

haven't had finger aches since moving to a cherry brown from a rubber dome. tried blacks but damn... so uncomfortable tongue.gif

red's .... nice at first but then you realize it's too light considering it's linear. for me who often rest my finger tips lightly on keyboard (even by accident) may actually depress during a game which could be fatal tongue.gif

blues, clicky, don't like the sound. also read it has issues for double tapping for games that utilize that sort of gaming tactics. i didn't test this myself but thats what people say hmm.gif

This post has been edited by Moogle Stiltzkin: Jan 21 2015, 02:55 PM
Moogle Stiltzkin
post Feb 5 2015, 06:33 PM

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a mechanical keyboard that also doubles as an android ?
user posted image
http://www.geek.com/android/a-quad-core-an...yboard-1614864/
http://www.lowyat.net/2015/02/oneboard-pro...ing-on-android/


uh..... is it trying to be a htpc, laptop, tablet something, i'm not quite sure what to think of this hmm.gif

This post has been edited by Moogle Stiltzkin: Feb 5 2015, 06:36 PM
Moogle Stiltzkin
post Feb 5 2015, 06:44 PM

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QUOTE(quovadis123 @ Feb 5 2015, 06:38 PM)
Ya. The keyboard is using MX Cherry Black.
Good, more and more mkb products.

My previous post
*
ah, just not quite sure whats the value in this though, and what kind of customer are they aiming for.

If i go android, i'd want it for either a smartphone or tablet, and maybe even for smart tv device e.g. roku or some sort of hdmi adapter.


Moogle Stiltzkin
post Feb 12 2015, 03:15 AM

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split mechanical keyboard
user posted image

http://techreport.com/news/27805/mini-mech...down-the-middle


i guess this build makes sense, if you rather keep your hands further apart when typing hmm.gif

also the other benefit is it physically separates the left and right hand typing to make it much easier. for me, sometimes i mess up qwerty style typing, because a finger from 1 hand actuates a key which should have been actuated by the other. happens because keyboard is close together so accidents happen if your a newbie like me sweat.gif

This post has been edited by Moogle Stiltzkin: Feb 12 2015, 03:17 AM
Moogle Stiltzkin
post Feb 12 2015, 09:15 AM

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QUOTE(cloud8992 @ Feb 12 2015, 03:19 AM)
how much is that ? if cheaper than a ergo dox might be interesting  whistling.gif
*
not sure, but anything that looks unique is usually expensive hmm.gif lelz
Moogle Stiltzkin
post Feb 12 2015, 11:41 AM

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wow even got aes encrypted mkb by cherry corp
http://www.pcper.com/news/General-Tech/Che...d-Are-Encrypted

user posted image

i didn't even know that was a thing. What exactly is the difference between that and just using software like Zemana antilogger on pc ?

This post has been edited by Moogle Stiltzkin: Feb 12 2015, 05:03 PM
Moogle Stiltzkin
post Feb 12 2015, 12:45 PM

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QUOTE(zennasyndroxx @ Feb 12 2015, 12:43 PM)
You wouldn't know that there's any exploits that can cripple software based solution. Not to mention 0day exploits as well.

Not only that, what if you travel everywhere with keyboard and use it on public PC? You don't have to use a software based solution. Just plug and play?
*
right... so the mkb hardware aes is
1. zero day protection
2. mobility on the go and still protected


k gotcha notworthy.gif
Moogle Stiltzkin
post Feb 13 2015, 08:15 PM

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QUOTE(zennasyndroxx @ Feb 13 2015, 06:13 PM)
then, lingloong's the cheapest liao.
i once thought it's not worth investing a high price for just a keyboard and then I've realized that I was wrong all along. Still, this is a very subjective thing and varies from person to person.

And yes, corsair's software is not user friendly enough as compared to razer's.

Different build quality, material, and also construction greatly affects your typing feel and sound. The keycaps you use also plays a great role in this.
*
welcome to the mkb club nod.gif i think now your ready to agree a mkb is just as useful a purchase as a performance gamers mouse.

but then again if i had a very low budget for pc it would still be prioritizing my pc rig purchases in this order of importance....

1. cpu (somewhere close to highend but not the insane prices lelz...)
2. motherboard (most of the highend have features i don't use, so usually get mid to high rng depending)
3. ram (cheapest, doesn't need to the best just bang for buck n still good for gaming)
4. ssd hdd (this is a must for gamers these days. even regular use can benefit. prefer 512gb for the performance. 1tb is too expensive for now. sata3/m2/pcie or better.
5. gaming mouse (hard to play games without a good mouse.... but i wouldn't spend more then myr 300 for one (i've seen some priced 600+ which is insane for a hardware that tends to wear out fast).
6. monitor ( won't settle for anything less than ah-ips or better. tn gsync monitors 144hz+ r so expensive.... )
7. speakers (audiophile guilty as charged biggrin.gif always listen to flac)
8. mechanical keyboard (hadn't had hand issues due to typing on cherry mx brown. not to mention is better actuator for general and gaming usage.)


and even then i agree with you it's still subjective.... despite the science why mkbs r better, some people who had tried both (not people who discredit mkbs without even trying once at least) still say they prefer rubberdome, n thats ok. But i still wouldn't pay for a so called gamer rubberdome keyboard that is priced the same or very close to a mkb (doesn't make sense to me) hmm.gif

This post has been edited by Moogle Stiltzkin: Feb 13 2015, 08:19 PM
Moogle Stiltzkin
post Feb 14 2015, 03:27 AM

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QUOTE(quovadis123 @ Feb 13 2015, 08:48 PM)
Not sure whether we generalise and bias towards gamer rubber dome.
I checked the retails price tag of logitech g19 is USD 199 (RM699).
Guess they pay a lot for the keyboard features since the keyboard price is high.
They pay for the features not better keyboard typing experience.

I admit that typing on a general rubber dome is good.  nod.gif
Still a good typing tool.
*
u mean this g19 ?
http://www.trustedreviews.com/Logitech-G19...Keyboard-review


seems to be old though. didn't their more recent gaming keyboard models become mechanical keyboards hmm.gif

kinda surprised trying to sell a rubberdome at 699... seems over priced rclxub.gif


yeh sidewinder rubberdome was the most acceptable back in its heyday.




PS: can't live without my ducky multimedia keys for stop/play/change track for music smile.gif

This post has been edited by Moogle Stiltzkin: Feb 14 2015, 03:28 AM
Moogle Stiltzkin
post Feb 15 2015, 07:02 AM

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QUOTE(cstkl1 @ Feb 14 2015, 09:45 AM)
But from what i can see its ironic cause...
Their case is not full alu. Psu not platinum. Cooling if its air not nickel plated.


not a really good comparison.

for mkb the material used does make a difference in the build quality. whether it be the keycaps, the casing, or other smaller parts.

but if it's something as stupid as diamond studded mkb, i'd just face palm. whenever i see those smartphones with diamond or goldplating for aesthethics, i just roll my eyes. but then again i'm not bill gates with lots of money to waste rolleyes.gif


yes price does factor into whether it's worth the purchase considering that mkbs usually priced between rm 3xx-1xxx. but since they start peddling out rubberdome keyboards that is priced roughly same as mkb, then it became a no brainer which to get, considering rubberdome was inferior to mechanical switches. just try and see for yourself doh.gif


QUOTE(cstkl1 @ Feb 14 2015, 09:45 AM)
Most important hardware on their computer experience gets neglected.


i totally agree with you on this point. and that is why i list my own personal set of priorities which i feel take more precedent for hardware upgrades.


for me it's a 1 time purchase for a long term investment. i did buy optional keycap parts to pimp out my mkb for better contrasting letterings and keys that don't fade, don't have that oily slick, and has the color schema i want.


QUOTE(cstkl1 @ Feb 14 2015, 09:45 AM)
Not all of them but generally. But notice alot of mkb ppl are audiophiles.


i'm not surprised. because these 2 enthusiast groups can easily be of the same types of because both tend to invest in hardware with improvements most mainstreams don't fork out money for that level of improvement.

This post has been edited by Moogle Stiltzkin: Feb 15 2015, 07:09 AM
Moogle Stiltzkin
post Feb 15 2015, 07:10 PM

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QUOTE(ntw @ Feb 15 2015, 02:05 PM)
welcome all mechanical keyboard users but teach them about differentiating between the good quality ones and bad ones. why the separation into bling2/gaming vs typist keyboard? both are still mechanical keyboard?


well if you go for a double shot keycap mkb, you'll tend to miss out on the led lighting, but in return you get very nice contrast on your keyprints.

alternatively if you go for led lighted keyboards, the clarity is also good but depending on the quality of the led in question. it's also very cool.

You can't go wrong with either, but the former is more of a classic look, and the later a futuristic bling look.

I do think in MKB there are sub groups of different preferences, but ultimately if it has a mechanical switch (yes including topres) then their all essentional mkbs.

Everything else like led lighting, keycap type, build material, media and gaming features are all just icing on top of it smile.gif



QUOTE(ntw @ Feb 15 2015, 02:05 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
just to share my own opinion. Regardless of whether someone is right or wrong, it's less condusive to end a discussion by telling others they have no place here.

from what i've seen the mkb club thread has way fewer trolls e.g. optiplex from the real world forum who goes around trolling day in day out talking bunch of garbage. i don't see that in this thread, so in my honest opinion, we should discuss/debate and learn through who made the more valid argument and leave it at that. lets not resort to name calling just we disagree smile.gif

QUOTE(ntw @ Feb 15 2015, 02:05 PM)
Kailh is not the only one manufacturing replica switches. Gateron for one is making replica LINEAR switches with similar if not superior quality
oo i wasn't aware of that. Would be interesting if there was an article comparing cherry, kalih, gateron and topre switches drool.gif


QUOTE(Patent @ Feb 15 2015, 09:13 AM)
So pom is as durable as pbt but smoother?
*
pom is more resistant to oily slick, browning compared to pbt. so in this order. but is harder to work with, so some pom keyboards especially the keycaps, sometimes you need to pay particularly close attention, just in case they add lots of weird bumps hmm.gif

QUOTE
Polyoxymethylene (POM), also known as acetal,[1] polyacetal and polyformaldehyde, is an engineering thermoplastic used in precision parts requiring high stiffness, low friction and excellent dimensional stability. As with many other synthetic polymers, it is produced by different chemical firms with slightly different formulas and sold variously by such names as Delrin, Celcon, Ramtal, Duracon, Kepital and Hostaform.

Typical applications for injection-molded POM include high performance engineering components such as small gear wheels, ball bearings, ski bindings, fasteners, knife handles, and lock systems. The material is widely used in the automotive and consumer electronics industry.


QUOTE
Properties[edit]
POM is characterized by its high strength, hardness and rigidity to −40 °C. POM is intrinsically opaque white, due to its high crystalline composition, but it is available in all colors. POM has a density of ρ = 1.410–1.420 g/cm³.[5]

POM homopolymer is a semi-crystalline polymer (75–85% crystalline) with a melting point of 175 °C. The POM copolymer has a slightly lower melting point of 162–173 °C.

POM is a tough material with a very low coefficient of friction. However, it is susceptible to polymer degradation catalyzed by acids, which is why it is stabilized - both the homopolymer and the copolymer have chain end groups (introduced via end capping) that resist depolymerization. With the copolymer, the second unit is normally a C2 (ethylene glycol) or C4 (1,4-butanediol) unit, which is introduced via its cyclic acetal (which can be made from the diol and formaldehyde) or cyclic ether (e.g. ethylene oxide). These units resist chain cleavage, because the O-linkage is now no longer an acetal group, but an ether linkage, which is stable to hydrolysis. POM is sensitive to oxidation, and an anti-oxidant is normally added to molding grades of the material.

POM advantages:

High abrasion resistance
Low coefficient of friction
High heat resistance
Good electrical and dielectric properties
Low water absorption


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyoxymethylene



notice the low friction, guess that would explain the difference when typing on say pom, pbt as the feel is different.

most of my keys are abs so they have a slight shine look, and does feel like it's lost it's texture from high usage. but that said it's not as bad as my old logitech g15v1, because those keycaps had disgustingly high amounts of shine, not to mention the printings had faded away. no issue on my double shot abs :}
QUOTE
ABS (Acrylonitrile butadiene styrene)
ABS is the most common plastic used in keycap manufacturing, and also one of the most common plastics used for consumer goods in general, including LEGOs, storage bins, etc. As a keycap material, ABS is cheap, strong, and easy to manufacture, so replacement ABS keycap sets are usually the most affordable option available.

Legends on ABS keys can be pad printed, laser etched/engraved, doubleshot, or UV printed, which have varying degrees of wear resistance (more on this below). ABS keycaps come in a variety of thicknesses, and most keyboard enthusiasts agree that thicker keycaps are more desirable due to their heftier feel, deeper sound, and overall quality.

Criticism of ABS keycaps usually focuses on their susceptibility to “shine.” Constant touching in combination with caustic skin oils can cause ABS keycaps to lose their texture in as quickly as a few months. Many keyboardists dislike the resulting “shininess” and smoothness, often saying that shiny ABS keycaps feel greasy. Additionally, some of the most common legend printing methods used with ABS caps, such as laser etching and pad printing, are susceptible to wearing off along with the surface texture.

Stock keycaps that come with new mechanical keyboards are almost always ABS unless specifically advertised otherwise.



i use my ducky mkb's original pbt space bar which i very much prefer compared to a abs one smile.gif *i do detect a hint of shine, and loss of texture, but it's not enough to be a big deal for me smile.gif


Anyway this is a very good article on keycaps
http://www.keychatter.com/keycaps/

This post has been edited by Moogle Stiltzkin: Feb 15 2015, 07:26 PM
Moogle Stiltzkin
post Feb 19 2015, 03:05 PM

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gong xi fatt chai everybody nod.gif

A typical mkb addict on cny
user posted image

user posted image

user posted image

laugh.gif


couldn't find any good cny memes, so that will have to do for this year sweat.gif

This post has been edited by Moogle Stiltzkin: Feb 19 2015, 03:13 PM

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