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 Interest changing to BLR + 0% and higher?, Starting from 1 January 2015

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polarzbearz
post Dec 31 2014, 10:20 AM

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QUOTE(wild_card_my @ Dec 31 2014, 10:04 AM)
As some of us predicted, the effective rate is similar to what we are getting now.

@Asgaard, what is the source for all these numbers ya? BNM?

edit: how to summon?
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wild_card_my summoning no jutsu!

CODE

[@wild_card_my] summoning no jutsu!


But even if BR+Spread% is the same as BLR-x%, isn't that BR changes more frequently / often than BLR? Correct me if I understood it wrongly..

This post has been edited by polarzbearz: Dec 31 2014, 10:22 AM
polarzbearz
post Dec 31 2014, 11:34 AM

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QUOTE(wild_card_my @ Dec 31 2014, 10:34 AM)
Thanks for the tip

They say that the BR can change every 3 months.

Overnight-policy-rate  (OPR) is set by the BNM, which is the interest rates charged by the BNM for the loans that they extend to the commercial banks. In turn, the banks would loan out the money to the public in the form of mortgage/pl/hl/asbloan/etc. based on the BLR. As such, when OPR changes, BLR changes too. But BLR has the "advantage(??)" of relying on a single metric which is the OPR as the basis to set its own interest rates. And since OPR doesn't change that ofter, BLR stays the same way too.

BR on the other hand, is the average borrowing cost for the banks, and these are based on a matrix of loans available to the banks. Different banks would have different abilities/capacity to borrow, as well as interest rates charged to them. As such, chances are the BR will be more... what's the word... variable (?)... have higher entropy (??) than BLR since BR is based on the average borrowing costs which changes on a daily basis for the bank. Remember, banks borrow from each other too, and from their depositors too, and these things have costs associated to them in the form of payable interests.

As such, BR is similar to KLIBOR but not exactly the same. I expect the BR would change (up/down) every quarter as they are allowed to.
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But at the end, would it put consumers in a disadvantaged position? Since its bases on BR + Spread.
Let's take two examples, Maybank and RHB Bank.
Based on screen shot recently released, Maybank has BR=3.2 and RHB has BR=4.0. Say if Maybank charges spread of 1.2 = effective rate 4.4; whereby RHB charges spread of 0.4 = effective rate 4.4.

On paper both have the same effective rates, however, let's say on next quarter, Maybank's BR is increased to 4.0 due to certain circumstances, and RHB's also increased to 4.1. Wouldn't this put Maybank borrowers in a disadvantaged position, having to pay effective rate of 5.2 now as compared to 4.5 from RHB? since the spread is now tied to BR.

Correct me if I understood it wrongly. notworthy.gif
polarzbearz
post Jan 1 2015, 05:56 PM

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QUOTE(MJ29 @ Jan 1 2015, 04:23 PM)
On the same note, should one buy a residential property after GST implemented, need to pay tax or exempted.
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Residential are exempted from GST, however, some of the materials used during the constructions may be charged GST by the supplier, so there might be chances where developer increases final selling price to adjust to the extra cost incurred.

Here's an article which illustrates the differences: http://loanstreet.com.my/learning-centre/H...Property-Market
polarzbearz
post Jan 1 2015, 08:54 PM

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QUOTE(jasminteddybear @ Jan 1 2015, 08:40 PM)
I attended a talk from some gst expert. What they said was just surface infor correct me if I am wrong. He mentioned that GST would depend very much if you are a registrant or not. If you are not a registrant the other person don't need to pay tax. But if A registrant deals with another registrant then it would be subjected to GST on the property pricing. It doesn't matter if it is a commercial or residential.
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Yup, you are right. If both are not registrants, they indeed cannot charge GST as they are not eligible to collect taxes.

However, if one is registrant, he have to charge GST to the next-level, regardless if the next-level is a registrant or not (except for zero-rated goods or exempted supplies).

If one is not registrant, he is not entitled to claim input tax charged by his supplier (if the supplier is GST registrant and charges him GST). Note that my example belows are the cost of construction or materials, not the final property itself. The final property cannot be charged with GST (exempted supplies)

However, in residential case, I believe there will be no differences because even if the developer or sub-con is a GST registrant, he will be charged Input Tax (tax charged on him when he purchases raw construction materials / services); but he cannot charge the Tax on the next-consumer (i.e. buyers), as Residential property is exempted from GST.

Here's an illustrated explanation I described above (in the picture, it's in a scenario of Hospital):

user posted image

So as the developer / sub-con cannot claim the input tax incurred, they may have to indirectly increase the service cost in order to "offset" the "additional costs" incurred in doing his business; because he cannot pass the GST to the final consumer (us)

This post has been edited by polarzbearz: Jan 1 2015, 10:55 PM
polarzbearz
post Jan 2 2015, 06:59 PM

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QUOTE(travis8481 @ Jan 2 2015, 05:35 PM)
Will bank loan subject to GST?
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Not that I am aware of, I might be wrong though. Not from banking sector sweat.gif

summoning wild_card_my sifu to answer this
polarzbearz
post Jan 15 2015, 08:18 AM

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If given both identical offer from two banks, one at BLR-2.4 (BLR=6.85) and one at BR+1.25 (BR=3.2); summing to effective rate 4.45%.

Which is the better choice? Although both have the same rate now, but it's the uncertainty in the future that worries me. If suddenly bank B's BR is raised and to be the same average of other banks (roughly 3.8), I'll definitely be in disadvantaged position here.... icon_question.gif
polarzbearz
post Jan 15 2015, 06:09 PM

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QUOTE(Jasoncat @ Jan 15 2015, 02:02 PM)
Same question asked earlier and my answer is no difference either you take the BR-based or BLR-based loan for your scenario. Further explanation you may refer to the earlier post.
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I see.. but is there chances where only Bank B's BR is raised (i.e. from existing BR3.20 to BR4.0) where other bank's BR maintains the same?

If that is the case, wouldn't taking Bank A's loan offer of BLR-2.4 (eff. 4.45%) better choice? Since if Bank B determines their BR is now 4.0 instead of 3.2, BR+1.2% will end up as eff. 5.2% than eff. 4.45%; where Bank A's BLR is not affected at all as their BR remains the same.
polarzbearz
post Jan 17 2015, 01:42 AM

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QUOTE(Jasoncat @ Jan 15 2015, 06:59 PM)
My apologies. Your scenario involves 2 banks which I have mistaken it as same bank with 2 offers (some applicant got the offer last year end, so is still BLR-based).

When the bank, be it Bank A or Bank B revises its BR, the BLR has to be adjusted by the same quantum.  You are worried Bank B will raise the BR/BLR and assume Bank A will keep its BR/BLR unchanged.  But the opposite can happen too, ie Bank A raises the BR/BLR but Bank B maintain the rate.  So, you basically have the same risk here as either Bank A or Bank B can also raise the rate.

Nevertheless, if both BR-based loan or BLR-based loan offers come from the same bank, then it is indifferent whichever offer you choose.

Hope the above clarify.
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But although I will be exposed to risks with either of the bank, wouldn't Bank B's impact being greater than Bank A, in my example above?

Since if bank A increases their BR/BLR; the spread (or in my example, the negative rate below BLR) is not too huge as compared to; if bank B increases their BR/BLR; due to the "already-high" spread, it'll have greater impact if that happens.
polarzbearz
post Jan 17 2015, 11:29 AM

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QUOTE(Jasoncat @ Jan 17 2015, 10:52 AM)
In your scenario,
Bank A: BLR-2.40% (BLR=6.85%)
Bank B: BR+1.25% (BR=3.20%)

Please note that,
- Both at present yield the same effective rate: 4.45%
- the spread, ie 2.40% (Bank A) or 1.25% (Bank B) needs to be maintained over the whole loan tenure.

If OPR increases by 0.25%,
- if both Bank A and Bank B increases the rate by same quantum in their respective BLR and BR, the effective lending rate will also be increased by 0.25% to 4.70%.
- if only Bank A increases the rate (by same quantum) and Bank B maintains its rate, effective lending rate will rise to 4.70% for loan obtained from Bank A whereas effective rate for Bank B's loan remain unchanged at 4.45%.
- if only Bank B increases the rate (by same quantum) and Bank A maintains its rate, effective lending rate will rise to 4.70% for loan obtained from Bank B whereas effective rate for Bank A's loan remain unchanged at 4.45%.

Is the picture clearer?
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rclxms.gif rclxms.gif That clears up my confusion!! Basically BR/BLR will be changed whenever there's a change in OPR, as bank "needs" to maintain their profit at the same ratio. So either taking up BLR-2.4 (blr=6.85) or BR+1.2 (br=3.2) will expose myself to the same risk as everything is "at the bank's mercy", just different terms on the paper.

Thanks so much for your explanation. icon_rolleyes.gif notworthy.gif
polarzbearz
post Jan 17 2015, 11:38 AM

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QUOTE(Jasoncat @ Jan 17 2015, 11:36 AM)
But pls do remember, since your scenario involves 2 diff banks, there is still risk there that the effective lending rate may differ in the future though there are the same now.  If both quotations come from the same bank, then no such issue.

Good luck  smile.gif
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But this is not because of BLR/BR, but more on "bank's mercy" to decide whether if they "want" to increase or "want" to stay-still, right?

Regardless of BR/BLR, if bank decides to increase, it will have the same quantum effect as they'll need to maintain their spread (for both BLR/BR cases), right?

Thanks again! notworthy.gif

This post has been edited by polarzbearz: Jan 17 2015, 11:39 AM

 

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