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 Folding Bicycles v4 - Not only Folding Bikes, Folding bicycle discussion

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edmundcwh
post Jul 14 2015, 02:26 PM

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Hi all, I wanted to ask is there any significant pedaling effort for a folding bike with 22" wheel compared to 20"?

I'm currently riding a 20" bike with single chainring but my gf leg not so powderful la when going uphill. So was considering whether to change a bike with 2x chainring or with larger wheel for her. Changing gf of cos is also out of the question laugh.gif

We are riding entry level bikes so I'm not considering to upgrade her bike parts.

edmundcwh
post Jul 14 2015, 05:29 PM

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QUOTE(etigge @ Jul 14 2015, 03:54 PM)
If the rims were shodded  with the same tires, I say the difference is minimal. for 22inch or 451 , the tire choice is limited to thinner tires only, the widest is 1.3 inch. the wider the tires, the more resistance, meaning it needs more effort to pedal, especially uphill. But on the other side of the coin, smaller diameter makes pedaling easier. So, there are pros and cons. So this means  it is actually easier to pedal a 20 inch foldie than a 22 inch unit. Why don't you change the existing tires with smaller width tires, like the Kenda Kontender. It will ease the pedaling but it will be bumpy as narrower tires needs more air pressure and will be hard on your bump.

Changing to bigger rims makes pedaling harder, Adding another chainring will definitely help. This will add more lower gears, thus making pedaling much easier BUT it will be slower. Riding uphill needs practice and you need to build your stamina over time. You did not mention what kind of bike nor what size the front chain ring is. It will be easier to suggest if you did. Check the number of teeths your chainring have, if it has 53 or 52, you can change to 48 teeth unit and this might help.

Summary  tongue.gif

smaller diameter rims easier to pedal than bigger
narrower tire width easier to pedal but harsh ride because high pressure
the more gears you have, gets more choice on ratios, more lower gears means each gear drop, gets easier and easier to pedal but slower speed.
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The wheels are (20"x1 3/8) is 451 right? The chainring is 52T with 7 speed cog. I'm fine with the setup but my gf kaki lembik a bit so was considering on her bicycle.

I have thought of upgrading her bike to 2x chainring, but with the additional new chainring+FD+shifter it may already cost a few hundred $ so might as well to consider a new bicycle. It is a basic folding bike and cost about RM400+ a bike. The reason we bought it, is in case she might lose interest in cycling but seems like she haven't faded yet so i guess is good news la. For almost a year of cycling, we have packed our foldies in car and went cycling at different states but we try to choose places with less hilly area.

I thought that bigger wheels = better efficiency to cycle since a stroke of pedal will turn the wheel further compared to smaller wheel. That is why i was curious about the difference in wheel diameter. If smaller wheel is easier to cycle, a 16" will be more suitable? Will she look like a hamster pedaling uphill? On flat road with current bike she can maintain around 15+kph comfortably and I observed that she was usually using the 5th gear (3rd ring from the smallest cog) at this speed.

That is why i was curious about the difference in wheel diameter and which one is the better alternative to consider for choosing a new bike for her. biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by edmundcwh: Jul 14 2015, 05:49 PM
edmundcwh
post Jul 14 2015, 10:54 PM

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QUOTE(etigge @ Jul 14 2015, 07:15 PM)
Many are quite wrong about smaller wheeled bikes. Every size is compensated by gearings in limited situations. A 20 inch folding bike can be ridden  18/20kmh cruising easily( for us I mean). A Brompton is a 16 inch bike and so are many more. It all comes to gearings. As I mentioned earlier,the smaller the wheel,the easier to pedal but not necessary faster, just pedaling effort s lighter. I think it is not worthy to add another RM400 to add another chainring but consolation though is the better added components can be transferred to the new bike if you changed bike later. I doubt she can be pedaling like hamster when going uphill,that means she is strong. Furthermore, one can go higher gear if pedaling is too light.

Bigger wheels does not equal to better efficiency. You need energy to turn them. Every inch the tires grips the terrain, there will be friction. That's why road bikes uses the narrowest tires for less resistance and the bigger diameter for  more distance per turn of the crank. But this needs energy just like a smaller wheels. If you see mountain bikes, their cranks goes to 44 teeth only as opposed to road bike's 53 teeth ,because mountain bike tires are wide and resistance is high. Off course in a race, speed is required but you also need to be able to finish the race. To tackle over rough terrains, you need many low gears and that's why mtb have the widest range.

15km/h is not that hard actually. I think just change to 1.5 inch tires or 1.3 tires like Kojak and if that still dn't help, change to 48 teeth cranks. That will make pedaling much easier but you will have to be slower to accompany her.
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Yea, that was what i thought too if upgrading the parts might end up more expensive than the bike it self. Guess I'll keep my option open at the moment to look for a 2x chainring bike until her leg become more stronger biggrin.gif Thanks bro for sharing.
edmundcwh
post Jul 14 2015, 11:13 PM

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QUOTE(H2D @ Jul 14 2015, 10:09 PM)

leg not strong, can slowly pedal up the hill.

if u want get new bike, get one with double crank should be ok oredi. 

change to smaller width tyre, can't really feel the difference. 

if your current bike can remove the crank or just ring, can change to 48T, 
can get very cheap frm taobao. 

http://gd2.alicdn.com/imgextra/i2/20375632...!2037563243.jpg 

largest cog is how many teeth?

can also change to 34t freewheel, also very cheap in taobao...

http://gd1.alicdn.com/imgextra/i1/11015918...!1101591844.jpg 
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Short slope is ok, those long slope only kaki lembik.

The largest cog is 24t if not mistaken. Havent invest in any chain tools to take out the cogs yet. 34t can use on foldie? The rd arm tak sangkut ka?

Current crank cant add a smaller ring, so have to change the whole crankset if i want to take this path. The bb is those normal cup & bearing type. Havent tried disassemble the crank yet thought. At the moment only done some minor diy on pedals and front hub regreasing.

edmundcwh
post Jul 15 2015, 12:08 AM

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QUOTE(H2D @ Jul 14 2015, 11:29 PM)

can u take some pics so can show us here  biggrin.gif 

what brand is the bike?

pic of the rear rd with freewheel.

nid to see the rd can accomodate 32t ornot. 

24t so small? can up to 28 or 32t if the rd can handle, 

front is 52T? if no change mebe need to add chain? need to check with wong sifu  biggrin.gif 

if front drop 4t back add 4t chain no nid change gua...

pic of the crank as well. 
shud be a tapered square...?
http://www.parktool.com/uploads/images/blo...lp/crank108.jpg 
crankset is very cheap oni frm china, no nid to change the bearings if is tapered square. 

u can bring to bike shop to pasang mar, won't cost a lot la.
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Is a china or taiwan brand TRS using shimano tourney 7speed derailer. I may remember wrongly on the largest cog t & away from home now cant take you some photo.

Front is 52t but the crank square tapered or not cant be sure. It has a 14mm nut locking on the crank to the spindle. Im quite diy efficient so no worry i can assemble & disassemble things fairly well biggrin.gif

The consideration was if the cost to change these stuff may add up a to few hundred $, perhaps look for a new bike with 2x chainring is a better choice. I havent check the cost to buy parts from the web yet cos not very familiar with those bb & spindle sizes hmm.gif
edmundcwh
post Jul 16 2015, 09:22 AM

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QUOTE(H2D @ Jul 15 2015, 12:19 AM)
oh ok then rmber to double check when u are back home,

u need at least 2 special tools, one to remove the freewheel and one to force out the crank.

the cost of freewheel and crank is cheap from taobao only  biggrin.gif
freewheel less than rmb 30, not rm ya.
cheap crank rmb 50 or even less.
shipping, say 2 kilo rm 23 only by air.

if the rd is shimano tourney tx35 it can take 34T.

if tapered square bb, is all same size, no nid change bb,
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i just checked taobao, i never knew can get those parts at these prices. After conversion to RM it is less than my estimated $. rclxms.gif

The rd is a shimano tourney tz with mf tz21 cogs. I saw the 34T cogs and it look massively large for the biggest ring. If i use the current crank 52T + the 34T cog, the chain would need to be changed also right?

The up/down shift between 24T & 34T difference is so wide, i supposed the changes on the pedaling forces is also quite abrupt. So im thinking of changing to smaller crank size instead.
edmundcwh
post Jul 16 2015, 09:39 AM

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QUOTE(etigge @ Jul 15 2015, 12:32 AM)
7 speed usually have 14/28 cogs freewheel. Can't be a 24. Shimano Tourney can handle 32 teeth at the rear. To remove the crank you have to get a crank puller. The crank (single chainring) can get a Prowheel from Kimbell Jaya for only 70 bucks. But I don't know if he have a 48 cog ones. I know Dahon Boardwalk uses the 48 teeth as original ones.  I can assure, they are square tapered BB. All cone bearing BB are square tapered. You can change your freewheel cogs to the Shimano Megarange type.

One thing for sure is, if you really invest in a lighter bike, both of you will be really fast as you are already used to this heavier bike. Just like when I gave up folding bikes and went mountain biking and then I rode my velo to a ride, it was effortless. icon_rolleyes.gif
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Yea is a 14/28 cog mf tz21. I have checked out the megarange type but it seems like too big difference on the larges 2 rings. Current wheels are just normal hubs. I know that freehubs are much better than freewheel. So if i change the cogs to megarange, it will have not much use if i changed the hubs in the future right?

Now my consideration is leaning towards changing to smaller crank. Maybe a 44T or 46T crank. When cycling on flat road she is seldom use 14T or 16T with current 52T crank. So with 44T or 46T, will be able to shift down to 16T or 14T (in case she needs) since the pedaling forces are reduce.. right? biggrin.gif

As for a better and lighter bike, i agree with that and the option is always open biggrin.gif but will need more careful consideration to get a nice fitting bike for each.

This post has been edited by edmundcwh: Jul 16 2015, 09:43 AM
edmundcwh
post Jul 28 2015, 12:57 PM

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QUOTE(etigge @ Jul 15 2015, 12:32 AM)
7 speed usually have 14/28 cogs freewheel. Can't be a 24. Shimano Tourney can handle 32 teeth at the rear. To remove the crank you have to get a crank puller. The crank (single chainring) can get a Prowheel from Kimbell Jaya for only 70 bucks. But I don't know if he have a 48 cog ones. I know Dahon Boardwalk uses the 48 teeth as original ones.  I can assure, they are square tapered BB. All cone bearing BB are square tapered. You can change your freewheel cogs to the Shimano Megarange type.

One thing for sure is, if you really invest in a lighter bike, both of you will be really fast as you are already used to this heavier bike. Just like when I gave up folding bikes and went mountain biking and then I rode my velo to a ride, it was effortless. icon_rolleyes.gif
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Do you know what type of bb is this? This is the best angle i can take biggrin.gif it s a photo of xds afb630. Cannot get any info from web on the bb that is on this bike

I didnt upgrade to smaller crank, instead I bought a used XDS afb630. it is much lighter and this bicycle can roll much easier than my present bike. now i have trouble catching up with her oredi.


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edmundcwh
post Jul 28 2015, 06:07 PM

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QUOTE(azamunekurone @ Jul 28 2015, 03:44 PM)
that is a square taper type of bb.if u want to used hollowtech bb, u need to buy the whole crankset
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What is the difference between these 2 type of bb apart from the spindle design. The location of the bearings?
edmundcwh
post Jul 28 2015, 06:23 PM

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QUOTE(etigge @ Jul 28 2015, 04:27 PM)
Most common and easiest to find sealed bearing bottom bracket. Square tapered BB.  icon_rolleyes.gif

user posted image
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Sealed bearing bb or hubs are they maintenance free? I bought this bike a used unit so i thought of sending it for servicing if those parts need re-greasing or something.
edmundcwh
post Jul 29 2015, 11:51 AM

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QUOTE(azamunekurone @ Jul 28 2015, 07:37 PM)
maybe this would help the long explaination

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottom_bracket
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i think my current cycling level haven't reach hollowtech requirement yet biggrin.gif

I read your older post you recommended Trinx 2016D quite well for beginner. i web search info on this bike but cant get the bb info that comes with it. Is is using sealed bb also?

I just bought a used xds afb630 and the ride is so much better compared my current bike low budget china bike. What is your opinion between the trinx and this xds in terms of riding pleasure or feel?

This post has been edited by edmundcwh: Jul 29 2015, 12:04 PM
edmundcwh
post Aug 28 2015, 09:59 AM

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QUOTE(almansa @ Aug 28 2015, 12:17 AM)
Any1 can comment on Cronus Solder 2.0 fold-able MTB?? Thinking to get 1 at the price of RM1960++

Izzit a good deal??

Thx..
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My personal view, folding mtb is not very practical. It is troublesome to fold, either to remove the front wheel or loosen the Handle bar to align it parallel to the bike to make it compact (still very bulky anyway) if you want to transport in car boot. Off-road use yes you can but in a careful way or risk damaging the folding joint. The biggest impractical factor is a folding pedal on a mtb just dont look right

For rm2k, invest in a regular mtb & a car roof/boot rack to save you the transport hassle and enjoy riding instead. If you prefer a folding bike, there are a some larger 22" or 24" wheel folding bike available in the market.
edmundcwh
post Sep 2 2015, 02:01 PM

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QUOTE(klutzie21 @ Sep 1 2015, 11:15 PM)
Hi, thanks for the reply. Yup, my budget is a bit tight, im a student actually but i have been wanting to buy one so for a start mayb im gonna buy something affordable. I did survey for folding bikes online within my budget n found a few in lazada wirhin the range rm239 and above, with the specs being single speed or 6/7 speed. I also found one model, 21 speed mongoose bike at rm499. So would like to ask that in my case, do i really need to buy one with more speed since im just going to use it for leisure (for now)?
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Before you consider a 7s & 21s gearing, let me share some general knowledge with you about gearing info i learned from my past experience. The gear sprocket on rear wheel for 7s bike most probably is 14t-28t (14-16-18-20-22-24-28) while the chainring on the crank may be a 52t. 14t is for flat road while increasing up to 28t for easier uphill climb.

21s gear most probably is using the same 7s gear sprocket rear but with a triple chainring (7sx3) set on the crank. On the mongoose bike you mentioned the smallest chainring look like 22t. If you need to use this chainring to cycle uphill, it may be much better to get down and push your bike instead because you are cycling on a walking pace speed but wasting alot energy to cycle uphill.
More gearing doesnt mean better. Proper gearing ratio is more important. An 8 gear sprocket 11t-30t (11-13-15-17-20-23-26-30) with 2x chainring can perform as good if not better than 21s.

With your budget, i will get a rm400 bike with the remaining $ for gloves and helmet. Things to look for on the bike :
1. The folding clamp - get those with straight clamp lock, which do not have visible spring on the underside of the clamp.
2. Shimano tourney SIS gearing - much better than other brands in this price category
3. Alloy frame - if can get alloy why not
Happy hunting!
edmundcwh
post Sep 4 2015, 02:48 PM

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QUOTE(D3vilsim @ Sep 4 2015, 10:53 AM)
Thanks PaulKong brother for sharing the knowledge.

I most probably will go for Dahon. But up to this point i still can't decide to get Vigor or MU D8 or Speed D8.  Price around the same.

Was shortlisted Vigor & MU but saw many rider here own Speed and give very good comments on Speed.

So ................................. Pening  rclxub.gif  rclxub.gif 
hhahahahhaa
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Ahh.. Under such circumstances, you should get the one which give you the most macam yes riding look biggrin.gif
edmundcwh
post Sep 6 2015, 03:30 PM

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QUOTE(D3vilsim @ Sep 6 2015, 01:58 AM)
GUys,

Went to tommy's shop today. very sorry trouble him so long but never buy anything from him yet. was plan to get Vigor but saw IOS9 is really temping.
Any bro review here ? thanks
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24" wheel folding bike.. No good..

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