Sorry if I am blunt here.
But I got to say that you are pretty ill informed on the issue of Kong Hee. Google is the your best answer on this. Maybe if you make a practise of that, you will not find it burdensome to go to RWI. Because I would think in RWI, not doing simple things like googling, will make you look pretty bad.

Jesus told us to look at the fruits of the tree.
A bad tree produces bad fruits.
A good tree produces good fruits.

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Yes. The bible tells us to beware of them.
The bible tells us to identify them.

So yes, looking at the fruits, we should be able to discern whether someone has the HS or not.

As for judging. God does tell us to judge fellow believers in the church.
6 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. 5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? 6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. 7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded? 8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren. 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

In fact, we are supposed to judge in matters in the church. We should not let outsiders interfere. When outsiders interfere like in the Kong Hee case, then it means we have failed.
Yes, we cannot condemned anyone to hell. But then the bible did say that false teachers will be condemned. We are just identifying what the bible teachers that's all. If false teachers have a change of heart, they will be saved as well. But then if they remain as they are, God will condemn them in the end.

Nope, it's clear to me that many are denying the truth.

Well, the bible does say.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Even demons acknowledge Jesus
Luke 4:41
Demons also were coming out of many, shouting, "You are the Son of God!" But rebuking them, He would not allow them to speak, because they knew Him to be the Christ.

So nope, not everyone who calls Jesus Lord are actually saved.

The context of the verse that you presented is more towards gifts. The whole context of 1 Corinthians 12 is on spiritual gift.
The manifestation of spiritual gifts would be as what you described on that verse.

Actually you should start from your church first. When you disagree with your brothers, tell them in a nice way.

As for friends, well, maybe you need to practise more discretion. The thing is, we should not deny that we are Christians. We also should not deny that non believers will not go to heaven.
But then, it will not be too wise to tell your friends that they will go to hell unless they convert. If they are interested in the truth, naturally they will ask you about it.

A false prophet is also one who preaches another christ.

Also, on judging. I have already stated the passage that states that we are supposed to discern whether a person has the holy spirit in him.
For your convenience, you overlook this.

Well, the passage that I provided only support the stance that scripturally judging is scriptural. It goes against your opinion that we should never judge others.

In fact
15 “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

This shows pretty clearly that if someone remains in sin, we are supposed to treat him like an unbeliever.

I have already stated countlessly that ultimately, God judges whether a person is going to enter heaven or hell. We do not do the actual condemnation. We only do the identification that's all.

We can control RONA ...

Bible say bind bind, release release.. i forgot the verse but trust me, it's there... we can bind RONA. Our tongue / mouth is powerful. Life and death flow from it (again forgot verse)... i am not talking speaking in tongue, but our tongue...

spiritual is much more real than physical. our physical body only 120 years, (i know bible say 70 or 80, but give a grace a bit lahh... ).... but our spirit is not aging.

how effective christian can bind RONA ?
1 day fasting enuf ?
maybe 1 month fasting ?
maybe daniel fasting ?
maybe 40 day like Jesus fasting ?
which bible verse ?
what kind of pray ?
do i need to wake up in the morning like Jesus to pray ?

this thing must ask HS and HS can answer anything HS think best to combat RONA...

my 2 cents 

It's not just about pointing out.
It's basically treating him as a non believer.
That is actually judging.

Also, again I have provided a passage that tells us to discern whether a person is really a Christian or not. I will leave it for you to find it out.
When your heart discerns that a person is not a believer, I would think it's practically judgement from the heart.

I will paste this again.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Anyway just to remove the confusion
For no good tree bears bad fruit, nor again does a bad tree bear good fruit, 44 for each tree is known by its own fruit. For figs are not gathered from thornbushes, nor are grapes picked from a bramble bush. 45 The good person out of the good treasure of his heart produces good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure produces evil, for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.

So it's not just about false prophets.

The ultimate judge still lies with God. As I have said clearly. But God does give us authority to judge in certain matters.

Don't underestimate the power of HS.

I have personally seen people share to unbelievers. They just plant the seed. The seed will grow.

Maybe not overnight, but maybe 10 years later, HS will prompt their hearts. I've witnessed people whom I would not have imagined would turn to God, but they did. Just a mere sharing by my fellow brother/sister.

If that's your definition, then yes we are in agreement.

But then in most cases, judging would probably mean seeing the wrong in others and pointing them out. I think that is what we should do.

I've not heard from the slip disc friend. Our timezones tak ngam. He lives in Australia and don't always come online.

But now another prayer request urgently needed.

My friend is working with a good Christian boss. But they've not been doing well. They do systems security.

Despite his best efforts it's like everything is against him. Either this is a bad way, or Satan is blocking him.

If can give a moment of prayer, will help a lot. Their deadline is the end of December. Otherwise got to jual everything.

Who are you ? Mr authorithy ? you disturb UW, you disturb me. Need clarification ?

Well.
It seems on surface, we are in agreement.

Unfortunately the truth is narrow.

"why still act and live like a sinner?"

The thing is, if you look at the Gospels.
Jesus said that only the sick(sinners) need a doctor.
The pharaisees think they are not sick and thus they do not need one.

Also, it's stated explicitly that Jesus ate with sinners.

Only sinners recognize their inadequacies. They recognize that they are really nothing. Only sinners recognize that whatever they did before are not profitable. Sinners are able to forgive others because they recognize that they themselves are a sinner.

In other words, they recognize that God is justified in condemning them. But then because of God's grace, they are not condemned anymore.

Even Paul says that he is a sinner. He never used the word was
But I received mercy because I had acted ignorantly in unbelief, 14 and the grace of our Lord overflowed for me with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. 15 The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.

The problem is that if you think you are not a sinner, then why would you need to repent.

Our Father in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
10 Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
As we forgive our debtors.
13 And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

If we are not a sinner, why do we need to ask our Father to forgive our debts?

The thing is, even though we recognize that our sins have been forgiven because Jesus has died for us, but then we acknowledge that we are currently still sinners. We still commit sin. And we still need forgiveness.

In fact, because we are believers, we should recognize even more that we are sinners. We do things that displeases God. We make mistakes. We entertain evil thoughts. etc.
Since we are now even more sensitive to sin, we recognize even more that many of what we do daily are not acceptable and that is why we ask for God's forgiveness even more. We understand the inability of overcoming our sins by our own strength. So we ask God to help us in this.
We recognize that before we were believers, we do many things that shamed God's name. We really deserve death, etc.
It's only when we recognize that we are sinners, that we can only come to God with a humble heart. That we are able to recognize God's grace even more.

If you think you are no longer a sinner, why would you need God's grace?

Okay let me try to be extremely simple with this...

I understand your point, you're saying that we shouldn't call people out if we're not sure what they're actually preaching. But before this you went on and on about how we shouldn't even spend our time rebuking other preachers(when I posted a video addressing some of Osteens writings), but then you shifted from that stance and now you're saying that if they're really preaching heresy, they should be publicly rebuked,THAT is how you shifted. Now you're asking me to prove that Joseph Prince preaches the propserity gospel, and I posted a link to a shop where he DESCRIBES one of the products (sermons) that he's selling and yet you insist that it isn't sufficient evidence although he clearly says himself on his own website that "Do you know that God has provided a guaranteed path to prosperity and good success?". The sermon is 30 ringgit btw.

Now here's where you're being iffy:

1) First you say that Prince wasn't teaching the prosperity gospel here, although it's already implied in his own statement. For goodness sake, the title of the sermon is called "God's guarantee for your prosperity"

2)Then you shift your stance and you say there's nothing wrong with prosperity and that my understanding of what prosperity is wrong ALTHOUGH it's the MEANING of the word prosperity in English. If you THINK Prince defines prosperity OTHER than how the english language defines it, then the burden of proof is on YOU to prove it.

What do you have to prove? That Joseph Prince, in his statement that God guarantees your prosperity, he doesn't mean "materially rich as in having millions of $$$". The original definition of the word from the dictionary has already been shown to be against your argument, so it's on you to provide the defense.
Now let's deal with your own theology of prosperity: If you yourself don't believe that prosperity doesn't mean getting rich financially, what then do you think the word means?

Without using the word prosperity, let me lay out my argument: Being a Christian DOES NOT GUARANTEE you being financially rich, or healthy or to have a succesful career or the like. If you agree with my argument, then we have nothing to argue about over what we believe about prosperity.

LOLOLOL OK LETS MAKE THIS EVEN SIMPLER.

What language is Prince, You and me using? English right? Good.

When someone uses a word in the English language, it is defined by what the dictionary says it is right? When someone calls you "stupid" you automatically think it's an insult right? Ok, so we establish that we communicate using words that have meanings that we both understand correctly right?

OK NEXT STEP

Joseph Prince says of his sermon (that I have no access to because it's RM30 ) "God guarantees prosperity and success in your life". Now, remember what we established earlier, when we use words, we use them because we know that everyone understands what that word means. Now let's look at the dictionary for what the word "prosperity" entails:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prosperity

" the state of being successful usually by making a lot of money"
Of course, you might say: Well how Prince was using the word contrary to what the dictionary meant: He's actually saying that prosperity means being poor in spirit but rich in Christ. But then how do you know that? Because if he chose to use the word "prosperity", surely he wanted it to be understood as what the English word "prosperity" means.
But because you don't seem to understand simple language comprehension principles, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt: You don't accept the dictionary definition of the word "prosperity" (Which is like going up to someone's mother and calling her "stupid", and then explain to that person and his mother that what you actually meant was that she's really pretty) and want to define it (because I do admit that there are nuances to some words, but usually not to extremes) on your own terms, then define it and we'll see if what you believe is actually the prosperity gospel or not.

Not angry, just confused as to how you seem to refuse to try to understand what I have to say but instead be so defensive and unteachable.

I'm saying this for the 4th time, the link I provided was an advertisement that he wrote himself for his sermon, but his sermon cannot be accessed unless you pay RM30, which I am not willing to do. So no, I cannot examine the sermon in full, but I can judge based off his own description of his sermon.
The Bible is translated from it's original language (hebrew/greek) to English by people who understand both languages. That's one reason why we have so many versions of the English bible, some more literal (more original to the original text i.e. ESV, NASB) or more paraphrasing (NIV, NLT etc.). So when they make the translation, they take into account how "secular dictionary" defines the word so that us English speaking people can understand what the text is saying.

You know why so many missionaries go to ulu countries to teach them English (with "secular dictionaries")? So that they can teach them the Bible of course! Language is God's gift to man so that we can communicate and understand the bible too.

Notice how prince is using ENGLISH to describe his sermon CD.
But anyway now we're getting somewhere: So you believe that Joseph Prince is not teaching that by believing in Jesus, you will be wealthy and succesful in real life right? And you believe that if he does teach that if you become a Christian you will be rich, then he's a heretic right?  (notice how I've completely avoided using the word prosperity here)

Bolded text: Again demonstrating your hard heartedness and refusal to be open to reason. Even after 9999999 times of clarifying with you what I'm talking about so I can move forward with the discussion, but you keep twisting my words to make your argument sounds good instead of trying to understand what I'm saying (I said over and over and over again that God can and does occasionally prosper his people).

I don't know enough to doubt your salvation, but you need to reflect on your arrogance here: I can understand if you accidentally missed my post or something, but when I repeatedly try to clarify with you what I'm trying to get at and you do the same twisting of words again, it really looks like you're not interested in the truth, but only to sound like you are the wisest Christian in this thread and you don't like your "authority" being challenged.
If your primary goal in this "Christian" fellowship thread is to show the world how "good" you are and how much you "know" about Christianity, then I'll have no part in that.



Again, come back to me when you're REALLY interested in discussing the truth and not just flexing your intellectual muscles (when they probably aren't that big). You can talk all about hermeneutics, but really, come back to me when you've read something solid about the subject and not some 2 minute video on the subject that probably didn't cover much.

But anyway now we're getting somewhere: So you believe that Joseph Prince is not teaching that by believing in Jesus, you will be wealthy and succesful in real life right? And you believe that if he does teach that if you become a Christian you will be rich, then he's a heretic right?  (notice how I've completely avoided using the word prosperity here)

Bye Decky, we don't need your ministry here.

To those who are a little confused about the subject but are interested...here are a few points to consider:

1)I don't doubt God prospers people. I know of a very good pastor who drives a BMW because his wife is a medical doctor and she comes from a rich family. I have no issues with that, God blesses whom he wishes to bless

2)What I have a problem with (and what I think the bible DOESNT teach) is the teaching that God PROMISES (meaning, it cannot be broken) you that you WILL be rich. There's a difference: God blesses who he wants to bless vs God blesses everyone with money.

"But if we tell people that God will bless them with health and wealth, wouldn't we save more souls for Christ?"

To which this will be extremely helpful:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3oFFZQqKdc

Basically, we're lying to them and leading them away from Christ, not TO him!
3)As for Joseph Prince's position, this article, an article written BY him on HIS website:
http://www.josephprince.org/daily-grace/gr...atever-you-say/
Brothers and sisters in the gospel, let us move ourselves away from such false teachings and focus on Christ, who has already given us the biggest gift that we can ever receive: Himself.

He died on the cross to save us from eternal damnation that you and I deserve and to reconcile ourselves back to Him, the only place where true joy can be found. He didn't die so that we can drive a BMW, own a big house or to have a problem-free life! Being a Christian doesn't mean that you won't get cancer (contrary to what someone like Prince would teach http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6VRc1M-6Gk  @4min mark onwards,  listen to the whole thing to understand his context; UW is right in that we should give them the benefit of the doubt, but it's clear what he's teaching here), but that if you do get cancer, you can still trust God despite it!

God says we will have whatever we say we want
I guess everyone doesnt want a BMW or a big house or a problem free life.

God says that we will have whatever we say. So whatever we want to have, we can say it and have it. Unfortunately, we often say what we don’t want to have.

For example, we say, “I don’t know why I go through my money so fast every month. Even when my boss gives me an increment, there never seems to be enough money.” And true enough, we see a lack of money at the end of every month.

You're just being his PR at this point, trying so hard to defend something he obviously said.

He gave an example of what happens when you never ask for the right stuff, you ask for the right stuff (say), then you'll get it.

Can you just....stop?