It's interesting that you mentioned the word contradicting because from what I've observed, I think it's just lack of understanding of scripture. You quote scripture in part, therefore you will understand in part. That's incomplete. (1 Corinthians 13:9-11)

The Bible must be understood in complete encompassing revelation of New Covenant but knowing the details from Old Testament to New Testament.
If you were to stop at just few verses as you've given, it would not suffice.

Because Yes He did specify quite clearly how to seek Him; in

Hebrews 11:6 (NIV) - And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

Do you see the word must? Faith is something God takes very seriously. Because He honour by that virtue. It's not really an option and I don't see there's room for doubt even.

Talking about Faith, actually it does equated with absolute certainty. In one translation it's phrased like this

Hebrews 11:1 (NLT) - Faith is the confidence that what we hope for will actually happen; it gives us assurance about things we cannot see. Confidence is the same meaning with being absolutely certain.

I think that's where your problem started. You gave room for doubt.

The reason why Jesus taught on faith as small as a mustard seed is to let us know, It's not really the matter of the degree of Faith, it's either you believe or you don't. Faith as small as mustard seed is still Faith. It's that simple, really.

Look, I know where you're coming from, I'm not trying to force you to believe. I'm just pointing out where you went wrong and it's really up to you to pick up from there. The reason why I'm here is because God gave me this ministry. To help others, to point them back in the right direction. I'm not trying to fight you or go into argument mode.

I rather back off and do something else If this is going to head into that direction.







This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Dec 12 2014, 07:27 PM

I find it weird though.

God has given me so much grace to believe in Him, I don't find it a problem to believe at all.
I've always believe in God as a young child. I didn't need much convincing, neither a need for evidence from scientific or empirical POV.

And yet I keep meeting people like you who has problems believing in God.

I just don't know how to reconcile this weird part, and I know I don't have the power to convince anyone but I know God can.

So I leave his words with you to the best explanation that I can think of.

Yeah I pray that one day, your eyes, ear and mind will be opened in the name of the Son of God, Jesus.

Take care ya.

But If you look at the complete passage, the main point still come back to the point of being absolutely certain.

In this context, it's not about whether it's going to be real or not but for sure it will happened, only how it's going happened is in question, we leave that in the hands of God, let Him be sovereign in "how" and his timing. Faith is the same as trust.

It's not about seeing God, but the experience , as how Jesus put it in

John 10:38 (NIV) - But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."

And if you look at

John 10:25 (NIV) - Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father's name testify about me,

You'll understand why He said that.

Hmmm, Nah, don't think that is idolatry because having Faith and having his word, they are both crucial and essence as how God wants it.

Bible knowledge comes when you meditate on his words. The Words of God is actually God himself. They are both part and parcel of the Christian Faith.

Actually what you've describe here is the symptom of having head knowledge but no heart revelation. Head knowledge means you know about God but you don't know God. Heart revelation comes from having a consistent pursue for God and that only happens when you have a relationship with him. So Yeah I know what you mean. You're describing this part that as a part of a problem you're going through right now.

But The comfort of being certain is actually where God wants you to be at. That is the home objective of Faith anyway.
It's not idolatry.

It's explained like this:

In Hebrews 3:7-11

7 So, as the Holy Spirit says:

“Today, if you hear his voice,
8 do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion,
during the time of testing in the wilderness,
9 where your ancestors tested and tried me,
though for forty years they saw what I did.
10 That is why I was angry with that generation;
I said, ‘Their hearts are always going astray,
and they have not known my ways.’
11 So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’ 

then see verse 12

12 See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God.

This is about the context of Faith. The key to operate this is explained in verse 8: Don't hardened your heart. That's all.

Hearing his voice in verse 7 here means hearing from the words you read in the Bible.
In Verse 11 Enter into God's rest, that's the same meaning of Resting in God or Trusting in God. You can only rest from the position of Faith or in your definition; being certain.

And verse 14 is the evidence of what I've said about being certain.

14 We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end.

Holding on firmly is just tenacious faith.
Remember the part I shared earlier that it's not about experimental faith but simply believing till the day we die? This is it.

Then Read the entire chapter of Hebrews 4. See the point in verse 10 & 11 where it says.

10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works,e just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

Why it's so important to enter into this rest? And why do you think the result is devastating that if you don't get into this position, you'll perish from disobedience. Disobedience comes when you don't really believe. That is the context when God sent the 12 spies to scope out the land of Canaan as explained in Numbers chapter 13. Out of the 12, only 2 believed. The other 10 clans perished due to disbelieve and fear. Caleb and Joshua entered the promised land and symbolically they rested.

I'm showing you scripture because that is where it starts and how everything connects. It is the word of God after all and it's where we can understand what his will is.

This rest from their work is synonym with resting from struggling/labour. Struggling can be applied to struggling with God. Man wants to trust in something they can work at when God actually just want you to just trust in Him. The same predicament that you're in.

So to be secure and comfortable on what is given or stated and following without any questions is actually Faith in essence, it's not idolatry. You got it reverse.

Actually not really. The problem with the Pharisee is that they don't practise what they preached.
With their mouth, they say they love God but in their heart and actions, far from it. They actually made it harder for people to be saved with their own rules of traditions when God intended it to be easy by way of Faith.

Actually I do understand where you're coming from. You're trying to get to God through your 5 senses when it must start from the point of Faith. The 5 senses will come. Your physical experience will come. But you got to take the first step by the way of Faith first. The initial step has to come from you and it has to be consistent. It may seem like Blind Faith initially but God will not leave you to be contented as blind. This I can assure you.

I would go as far as to say He is the God as how the Bible describe Him to be. God is faithful to his words. He did not lie about what he promised.
How do I know this? It's happening in my life. I'm one of the walking testimony. I'm sure there are many others as well.

Bro I didn't have this "super" Faith automatically handed over to me on a plate. I've gone through your struggle. There was a point in time when I stared at the walls wondering where is God. Why He didn't answer my prayers. See I believe in God but I didn't know what moved Him or how to get Him to answer me.
How this struggle was resolved, part of the answer is above. There's another part. Maybe to be continued tomorrow.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Dec 13 2014, 09:51 AM

Everyone wants it safe. Just that we guys who have crossed over from that leap, we're telling you, it's alright to leap because it's real.

God has place in evidences or trails of his existence, we as the witnesses of his reality are one of the source, our testimonies.
Answer prayers is also the evidence of God. That is what Jesus meant when he said, at least believe in his works.

I also believe God have not left out physical evidence. Jesus is the evidence.
Jesus is God. He is the physical evidence sent by God the Father as recorded by Historian. My siggy explains it.

Just as much as I believe Galileo was real person even though I've never seen Him.

But I'm telling you, all these may be of no help if you still don't take that first step of Faith. Faith has always been the key and will always be till He comes back.
There's no other way. To find God, it has to done his way. Your way is not going to work. If you're going to say, then it's pointless to even try, I'll just tell you, the way has been given, you just don't want to take it. You want to make your own road. You want to force fit a square into a circle. Well......there's where your problem lies, staring at you, why you can't find Him.

Uzzah.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Dec 13 2014, 12:52 PM

Have you heard of Ravi Zachariah?

This guy has been ordained by God for intellectual discourse.
He's a professor and a philosopher.

He may be the material you're looking for.

He has tons of excellent materials in youtube, proving about God.


May want to check him out





Pls take time to check out this videos as I believe it will benefit you.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Dec 14 2014, 05:51 PM

Why don't you attend DUMC then if you feel more welcome there? It's better to stick to 1 Home Church rather than going around.

Bible Devotions with UW

Free from condemnation!



Dear Friends,

Do you feel that the reason why you don't come to God in prayer is because you feel condemned? Condemned because you've acted wrong, done wrong, have not live up to standard that's pleasing to God? Whatever is the reason, you just feel condemn.

I would like you to ignore that voice of accusation. Father God have specifically told me that the reason why people are not coming to Him is because they've accepted that voice of condemnation.
I'll have you know that, THAT voice did not come from the Father.

THIS is the voice is the voice of the Father:

Romans 8:1-2 (NIV) - Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.

John 6:37 (NIV) - All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.

God will never stop you from coming to Him no matter what you've done. And that is the truth.

The words in the Bible, in the light of the new testament, they are his official voice.

We need to come to God in prayer everyday so that we can receive help and grace from our Father in Heaven.

He is your Father who He sent his son to die in your place to bring you back to relationship with Him.
It defeats the purpose of sending Jesus if truly the reason for your standing before Him depends on what you've done in justification for your life.

Now that you know this truth. Don't let anyone rob you of this truth, not yourself not the devil nor any preachers.

Come to God as you are! Your heavenly Father waits you!

God Bless!

Ahh don't get caught in the spirit of legalism.

I'm of the opinion all Christians should celebrate Christmas.

Have you read the book of Colossians?

Freedom From Human Rules

16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. 19 They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

20 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: 21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

It means, don't let yourself get caught in the spirit of legality in things pertaining to eating, drinking or celebrating festivals, don't let people judge you by what you do or don't do. (Colossians 2:20-21)
It can apply to any practical matters in our daily lives. (dos and don'ts). I'm talking about our general human pursuit in life and not on what is sinful like lust, etc.

We are saved by the work done by Christ not by our do's and don'ts.

Whether we celebrate Christmas or not, it doesn't affect our salvation, does not save us, neither does it disqualify us.
We can celebrate Christmas if we want to, and the Bible even says in support of that; don't let the words of man or the traditions of man, condemn you. (Colossians 2:16)

Even though people say say it's related to winter solstice a pagan celebration, or the date is not 100% accurate, it's alright.

Why?

Because on Christmas day, Christians celebrate in remembrance of the birth of Jesus Christ and not any pagan gods. There are no elements of paganism in the activities of Christmas.
If somebody wants to say anything about it, refer to chapter 2 in the book of Colossians.

Whether the date is accurate or not, is immaterial because nobody knows for sure what is the exact date. What is important is that the world needs to know there's a messiah born in a manger 2000 years ago and he came to save all of us. This is the message of Christmas.

It's alright lah, we already know you're Manickam123.

That's what I mean about forgive and forget. If I can let go, and God can forgive you, so should you.

haiyooo you guys still arguing.

You know guys?

The Lord Jesus loves all of you in here.

And you know that is the most important thing in the world.

* Focus on that, instead of arguing.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Dec 19 2014, 10:55 AM

Listen Simpletraveler.

I don't know which part of the word Christian Fellowship Thread, you don't understand.
Go and look up in the dictionary FELLOWSHIP. This is for us Christians.

You want to argue against Christianity, you're more than welcome to head over to RWI.

Stop your attacks, I find it really stupid. This is my final warning.

No need to give me that pretentious "act".

The rules are already on the first page itself.

This is a thread meant and designed for Christians to fellowship.

Not meant for trouble seeker such as you to come in here and tell us "oh prayer is placebo" Oh Christianity is after your money" and all that stupid jazz.

HEAD OVER TO RWI. If not I will tag one of the staff and complain against you.

Bro De1929,

Can I request that you don't enforce what God has done for your level of Faith to people who can't accept it at the moment?


And


Bro Luffy,

Can I request that you don't be too hard on De1929.


Can I request both of you to just shake hand and agree to disagree?
For the fellowship sake?

If I'm not mistaken, I think He just felt that He's being attacked (in a way) for sharing something that's good that should benefit other Christians.
I think He's offended as well.

It's a bit hard for him to understand not everyone may be ready for that. This part, I'm trying to convince him.

And yes I understand that, Even Sophiera was not spared. (poor Sophiera)

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Dec 21 2014, 01:05 AM

depends on where you stay.

If KL, head over to Wesley Methodist Church KL for a traditional christmas celebration.

If you don't mind contemporary, head over to Calvary at Bukit Jalil. They'll be having a Christmas musical and Christmas service after the musical.