Good morning!

Interestingly enough, if you read John 18:36d (my servants would have been fighting), the footnote point towards Jesus' saying in Matt 26:53 where Jesus said that Jesus could have summoned a legion of angels to fight for him. But again, when reading the bible, we cannot simple take one verse or a few verses and rip it off from it's original context or the context of the whole Bible, so I don't think Jesus was talking about spiritual warfare here.

Again, watch the first video I posted earlier, I think this was Jesus talking AGAIN about how he is fulfilling all of God's promises in the OT! Isn't that good news?

As for the "automated" process: I don't know what you mean here, but suffice to say I don't think it's that easy in an "automated" way too! Again, I believe that we ought to pray, but again to reiterate my point: We musn't misplace our priorities!

Now as for tongues...

Romans 8

Here's a helpful article to read that argues that it cannot be referring to tongues :  https://bible.org/seriespage/lesson-50-spir...y-romans-826-27

To borrow a quote from the article:
Why is it that if speaking in tongues is a valid gift today, it is only for some? Well read 1 Cor 12-14 of course (specifically 1 Cor 12:27-30)!  Which brings us to the next part...

You say
Read the whole bulk of 1 Cor 14 (actually 12-14 would help you understand the big idea of what's going on there);

I think the essence of what me and the other dude has been trying to say is here:

1 Cor 14:6-12 ESV

And further down the text
again I must reiterate: I'm not talking about private prayer in tongues or whether or not the gift has ceased or not. The point of the text and our argument is to show that what Paul was teaching here is LOVE (aka 1 corinthians 13).

He is EXPLICITLY saying here that although he "thanks God that he speaks in tongues more than all of them", he would rather speak five words in his mind in order to instruct others. And in the immediate context, he gives his argument for this: Tongues without interpretation just isn't building other people up! In the whole bulk of 1 Cor 12-14, Paul has been telling them this over and over again: Church is other person centered and it's not about YOU.

Again, if we're going to learn from God's word, we have to read it in context! We can't just pull out one verse and put our own meaning into it: It's putting OUR words into God's words!
I am not "underestimating" the Holy Spirit, but the problem already lies with your reply: "The HS will use whatever that was preached to impact other people's lives"
Really? What was being spouted wasn't what God's word taught, it didn't was in fact dangerously close to be saying "Remain in Christ because he's gonna materially bless you", which is an utter distortion of the gospel.

Is God sovereign? Yes. But what does the Bible have to say about this well hmm...

When some Jewish Christians tried to convince (and was a little succesful) the Galatian church that in order to be saved, they had to be circumcised as well, this is how Paul (who usually starts his letters with a thanksgiving) starts his letter
And then..
Notice how strong Paul comes off regarding the issue. Did he just throw up his arms and pray that the Holy Spirit would work through this false teaching? No! In fact, if you believe that the Bible = God's word, it was the Holy Spirit who was speaking through Paul to the church in Galatia! And this is just a small example, read through all the epistles and notice how Paul was always reminding the church to hold fast to sound doctrine and becareful of false teachers and their teaching, especially when it comes close to distorting the gospel!
Further reading:

https://bible.org/article/argument-1-corinthians-12-14

Exactly, they are being contrasted here: Prophecy and tongues. You say you are not talking about "speaking in tongues to instruct in prophecy for others", what does that mean? Paul is distinguishing the two here really clearly.

The tongues mentioned in the text I think, will most probably refer to what you mean by tongues.

Remember what I said earlier: Do not take a verse out of it's context and interpret it from there.

If you keep doing that, you can let the Bible say whatever you want it to say e.g. Pslams 14:1 ....There is no God.    <<< Is the Bible saying that God doesn't exist?

Read the whole chapter, try to understand the context that Paul is talking to the Corinthian church (e.g. disunity because they believe that speaking in tongues = superior to other gifts, used to be pagans, unloving)

Try again.

I think you even misunderstood what I said: I was talking about priorities when it came to talking about my mission leader AND the fact that everyone should speak in tongues (when the gifts are distributed according to God's will)

Again, you're missing the whole point of 1 Corinthians 14. Try again

Hint: you're still missing the big idea of the text, try to find out the essence of what Paul is trying to say. You're paying too much attention the the details of single words, but you're missing the bigger picture of the text. You can read the commentary I posted a few posts ago if you need some help, it helped me too.

can the interpreter interpret actually? I heard before that one interpreter at the end confess that all these while he just goreng only :-D

I wish to meet the interpreter personally and straight to the eye and ask him/her, "Do you honestly from the bottom of your heart understand the person who speak in tongue beside you?". Sorry for my much scepticism. Can't help.

not everyone has the gift of speaking in tongue......although Paul said that everyone has the ability to speak in tongue but that does not means you can speak in tongue right away, he may referring to speak in other languages?

Gift of Speaking in tongue is one of the gift of the Holy Spirit, so not everyone can speak in tongue

Seriously I wish to meet the interpreter in person le. Where to find ah?

speaking in tongues in other languages is an ability as stated by Paul? i believe that is the word Paul is trying to say but speaking tongues not everyone has the ability to speak in tongues to the Father

i am a christian myself but i do not have the ability to speak in tongues? i am from Methodist, although i have been exposed tp Speaking in tongues cultures since i am very young, as i have many friends from charismatic churches. they do speak in tongues some of them and i attended few of their special programs in their church too

i agree that speaking in tongues is a gift of Holy Spirit and as i said not all can speak in tongues? but speaking in other languages is an ability, there are few cases where a citizen of a country fall in coma upon waking up he speak in foreign languages but forget his own national languages? this prove that we have the ability to speak in other languages or the ability to learn.master other languages

You're nearly there! But it's not *just* about unbelievers, but ALSO it's about LOVE to OTHER believers! You get it now? The motivation here is love! When you gather as Christians, you do so to build one another up!

So EVEN in the context of christians, I don't see how praying in tongues should be done when we are gathered. You see why now? Paul is telling the corinthians to love one another (cf. 1 Cor 13) because it's the most excellent way!

Here are two helpful quotes from the commentary I linked up earlier:
And directly addressing your argument from verse 5:
Notice how both arguments are made with appeal to the context; context, context, context. We must never forget the context!

Also, I was discussing 1 cor 14 with General Fahmy and alluded with my mission team leader for another scenario (in terms of her placing her priorities wrongly), but now that I've studied the text a little more, I think I can more confidently say that it might have it's applications to what happened as well:

1)Tongues is not a gift for all believers (cf. 1 Cor 12)
2)Tongues is not useful in building up other believers  (cf. 1 Cor 14)

Following (1) and (2), then it follows that within a mission team discussion setting, it shouldn't be your priority to push people without the gift to use it!

I'm not saying that tongues = redundant gift, mind you. I am saying that it isn't the most IMPORTANT gift.

In my scenario, alot of time and effort could have been spent on working through the Bible to make sure we will be preaching God's word faithfully to the villagers; Alot more time could've been spent on praying for one anothers needs and hearing each other out; Alot more time could've been spent on learning one another's weakness so that we would sharpen one another and submit ourselves to the authority of God's word. But instead we have HERESY being preached to 100's of villagers that will not have access to sound teaching anytime soon. I don't understand why you and some of the rest just fail to see this point: The distortion of the gospel is not and CANNOT be the work of the Holy Spirit, it is the work of the devil. And I'm basically saying that the devil can use things like "tongues" that might be something good from God and twist it and corrupt it!
Again, it is completely okay to swallow our ego and say "hmm, maybe what I thought all this while was wrong, maybe I should check with scripture again" and do a study.

Again, I think this article is extremely helpful:

https://bible.org/article/argument-1-corint...2-14#P210_60349

It's a walll of text, but you can skip the part where he argues from the greek and go straight to the summary and argument sections for brief arguments. Mind you, it's not some random scholar writing this.

I said we both have to swallow our prides and submit to the authority of scripture. Yes I have, I have tried to understand what you've typed thoroughly. In fact, I think it's you who are not understanding what I'm saying.

"Since when praying in tongues is not loving for other believers"

Read the text again. It's not something I'm saying, it's something Paul and the Bible is saying. In fact it's the whole reason why I jumped into the conversation between you and General Fahmy: He was saying the EXACT same thing.

Fun fact: I've spoken in "tongues" before. I was like you once; always wanting these spiritual gifts because I thought it was the path of being a better Christian.

But please knoww this: it doesn't make you a better Christian than another Christian.

If I've misunderstood you, just slowly point it out. Also, if you want to prevent misunderstanding, try typing with more formal English so that the chances of miscom will be reduced

Because this is what you said about the prosperity gospel:
I'm sorry to sound harsh, but I think it's necessary: are you sure you're winning souls? Someone who believes in Christ because of all the material blessings and NOT because of His work on the cross is NOT saved. He might have visions and stuff, but Jesus Christ isn't the lord of his life, money is. That's why I think it's dangerous and I urge you to rethink your position.

By telling a bunch of poor people who need money that they should obey God to be rich, you are basically appealing to their innate desire to be rich and famous (like all of us do), which is idolatry!

If you read what his original reply was replying to, he was defending my mission team leader's preaching of the prosperity gospel.

Everything I said was relevant to my main point of discussion.

Let's take your statement at face value:

"First of all speaking/praying in tongue is between you and God"

I'll grant that for the sake of argument. This isn't my main contention ok moving on

"In mission preparation, all are Christians, when I pray in tongues, Im not talking to you but to God"

This is why I brought in the whole idea 1 cor 12-14, yes its between you and God, so why do you do it when you gather? Lemme try using my manglish see if it helps.

paul is saying that when you gather together as christians, its so that the other christians are built up. so if you gather but just use your time using tongues because "its between you and God", it's not focusing on other people. this is exactly what paul didnt want the corinthians to do because it wasn't focusing on the other believres.

so same way with mission team; christians were gathering together as christians too! I don't mind you spaeking in tongue in private prayer, but the difference is that we're now gathered together, so we should focus on building each other up!

was that helpful?

But Jesus also says "Do not accumulate yourselves treasures on earth". Also, think about it: do they NEED wealth? Do they NEED an iPhone? I think as their christian brothers we should give to them and we have a duty to do so; and I'm happy to have served the people there by giving them material supplies like clothes, food and the like.

i dun have a problem with someone saying that God will take care of them because He is the ultimate provider. but that is different from saying that you obey god BECAUSE you want a more comfortable life.
Jesus, the son of the Most High God himself DIED on the cross for OUR sins. That's the ultimate blessing already, to tell someone that you should obey him because he's gonna surprise you with something big like a BMW is to say that the BMW is better than our eternal salvation, and that is heresy.

LOLOLOL We're going in circles. So I think we should just drop it for the sake of the peace of the thread. The fact that 3 LYN members have been repeatedly telling you the same thing with the exact same arguments but you're still adamant that you're interpretation is correct(even though I've even offered you a commentary that directly opposes your interpretation by a scholar from Dallas Theological Seminary). If anyone ever wants to start this debate again, let this be a reminder that discussion over forum probably won't bear much fruit.

I don't think it's gonna be fruitful for the rest of the Christians who just wanna chill and chit chat on this thread (since I was only trying to defend General Fahmy's argument when I first appeared), but if you wanna meet up and talk about it one day, send me a PM! I live in PJ so I assume we can meet up around Calvary area since you serve there.

To those reading, here are some book recommendations to further understand hermeneutics (how to interpret the bible properly) so that you can make sense of what has been talked about and hopefully, take a side one day:

http://www.amazon.com/Grasping-Gods-Word-H...ng+God%27s+word

(I got it for RM129 at Burning Bush Bookshop @ DUMC a fwe years back, not sure if they still have it.)

http://www.amazon.com/How-Read-Bible-All-W...ll+it%27s+worth

(this one is cheaper I think, also an essential read about reading the Bible, Evangel probably has a few copies. I really like Evangel and their book selections, the shopkeeper's really friendly too!)

That's why I said refuting and debating online are not that effective sometimes. At times, message can lari when get across.

Maybe good idea to write a complete and structure page (ie facebook page) on what you want to refute. Then, it will more clear, complete and structure. and easily refer to also compare to here where all the points are everywhere. Just a suggestion.

Bro, I was there and 3 of my mission teammates just decided to pray when we heard the prosperity gospel being preached. I used the examples to help you understand the situation better, so no, she didn't specifically say BMW, but the content of the message was the same.

you really need to understand what it means to "read the bible in context"... seriously. -.-

I NEVER SAID GOD FORBID WEALTH. You guys are creating so many strawmen it's not even funny.

I was arguing against the preaching of the idea that we should obey God  SO THAT we will be blessed with wealth. NOT SAYING THAT WEALTH IS EVIL. You know why I was arguing against it? Because you're spitting on the work that Jesus did on the cross! You're saying that Jesus' death on the cross is just a "small thing" compared to the material riches he will bless you with.
If you won't hear it from me, go back and watch that Piper video; Piper is a charismatic like you and he prays in tongues I think, he encourages his congregation to do so (privately) if they do have the gift, HEAR IT FROM HIM.

My brain couldn't follow the argument between you and Decky. So I just comment as general comment only