Continue of V12

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3381037



As per the topic, i would would like to gather some view point on how Property price increase impact our life in general.

http://www.positivemoney.org/issues/house-prices/

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/5381/hou...-pros-and-cons/

Also i would like to discuss how property price affect humanity, does it change us to be a better person - More prudence in spending, reduce wastage such as buying non essential item eg. Changing gadget every 2 months, spending on clubbing, so that money can be spend on better house for family.

Or Property price increase actually make us a worst off person, eg. taking advantages of Family members, friends, employee, employer, so that we can accumulate more money to buy higher price property to gain social status.

Come come let's discuss [COLOR=red][COLOR=blue]

This post has been edited by jolokia: Nov 4 2014, 07:13 PM

Member posting with sense

Is it "over" leveraged ? I don't think so. I have explained a few time why the consumer property loan is not "over-leveraged" but is caused by innovative loan packages

The rapid expansion of property loan is due to 1 factor --> zero entry + dibs. And this new way of buying property has created new demand that shift the equilibrium to the right. Ie. price increase. The demand comes from 3 new categories of people :
1. Gen Y
Previously, only people with cash equivalent to 15% of property price can buy. So younger generations aged between 22-30 hardly can afford to buy property. They have to save for years. During my time, we (Gen-X) bought our property only around 30 y/o. Even if our salary is RM5k, we can't buy property because there is another barrier --> 15% deposit. We have to save enough only can buy. This takes time.

But with zero entry + DIBS, the developer and banks have made owning property a lot easier for Gen Y. They do not need to save for the 15% deposits. As long as they have a job with good salary, the banks can loan them. This is not possible before. So, a new category of buyers (demand) is "created"
2. Female Gen Y
Previously, there are not many girls get education up to university. Nowadays, girls and boys get to further their studies if they are smart enough. So, together with the zero-entry + DIBS, the female property buyers have become another new category of demand.

Worse, even fresh grad boyfriend+girlfriend suddenly can afford to buy property jointly right out of university age maybe 22-23. That's why we see at the new launching so many young chaps. So, another new category of buyers (demand) is "created"
3. Parents
Previously, Gen-X (35-50 y/o) after buying their first property, they keep their investment in FD (high interest), stock etc. But due to zero entry + DIBS again, these parents find it easy to buy their 2nd/3rd property too. They don't need to start saving the 15% again after the 1st property.

When they see the prices keep increasing, they feel that it is their responsibility to buy for their young children (although they are only <10 y/o now). They thought if they don't buy now, their children are not going to afford. So nowadays, you will see Gen-X own >1 property. For the sake of their children 20 years later. So, yet again another new catetory of buyers is "created".
So here is the important question - are these loans given to the 3 new categories of people vulnerable (ie sub-prime as our student likes to put it) ?

I don't think so. They have the job that pays well and their instalment is affordable as long as they have the job. For Gen Y, they are at the stage of climbing the corporate ladder and their income will only increase fast over time. For those joint name purchase, they can even consider 2nd property after 2-3 years.

The "culprit" is "zero-entry + DIBS" which allow them to bypass the second hurdle of saving 15% deposits. Before, it was a major hurdle for Gen-X to save the 15% deposit. But not Gen-Y. As a result, the property price increased so "abnormal" for the past few years.
Of course, if economic crisis happens, recession will hit everyone. Borrower who lose jobs will face problem of servicing loan instalment and it will lead to property market downturn eventually.

But do you honestly think economic crisis is coming ?

By Showtime747.




Hi Bear, lets go into specific on Bukit Beruntung.

TBH, I am an old man, already pushing 45, so I was old enough to know about Bukit Beruntung and could have even bought into Bukit Beruntung.

Today, we look at why Property prices are depressed in Bukit Beruntung.

The Answer is simple - cos there is ready supply in terms of completed and abandoned homes but there is NO demand. Hence, Prices are Low.

Now why there is No demand, cos the Centre of Gravity is towards the Southern Corridor.

Brief History Lesson.

In the early to mid 90s, in the times of TDM,the talk in town was that the Centre of Gravity would be in the Northern Corridor, Linking Selangor to the Silver State (Perak)

Land & General wanted to be the front runner and bought huge parcels of Land and decided to sell and many people were enticed to buy. I was in my 20s and amohst our friends, we talked about buying a unit there but at the end, we did not.

Then, two things happened, the first being the Asian Financial Crisis and TDM announcing that the Airport will be in KLIA and togeter, the development of the Southern Corridor now known as Putrajaya and Cyberjaya and Bukit Beruntung, Rawang was abandoned. L&G wend under and the situation has changed little for past 20++ years.

Today, we look at your comparison of Setia Alam and Semenyih vs Bukit Beruntung.

The Analogy is not comparable.

When Bukit Beruntung was abandoned, there was hardly any infrastructure there.

No 3-Lane Highways

No Public Transportation

No Malls of any kind.

The country went through a Financial Crisis / Recession.

Even if a Developer were to revive the Projects, it would not be viable without the necessary infrastructure.

In fact, only with LATAR, etc, is Rawang becoming viable and some Developers like Mah Sing starting to build there again.

Now we look at Setia Alam. It has a highway.

It has a Mall - filled with outsiders as u may claim.

But the houses are completed. Yes, it may be vacant but its not abandoned.
.
If SP Setia decides to give up on Setia Alam, there will be ready takers in form of other developers, the issue being only pricing

We look at Semenyih.

It has PLUS Highway to Kajang. MRT also stops at Kajang.

It has SILK Highway

It has LEKAS Highway.

Kajang is almost fully developed with only small parcels of Land, so the natural progression is either Bangi or Semenyih.

Problem with Bangi is most Land are Bumi Land so, there won't be huge developments there.

Of course, Southville, etc is there but that's about it for the time being.

The issue with Semenyih is only on pricing.

Is it overpriced - the answer is YES, cos they are selling at Kajang prices already

But will it end up Abandoned like Bukit Beruntung - the answer is NO.

Subsequent phases might be delayed until the right time but it WILL NOT be Abandoned like Bukit Beruntung.

It does not matter if there are many Vacant Units. To Developers, sales has been done and its up to the Secondary Market to find the equilibrium price.

Now on the population part.

Pricing is always a function of Demand and Supply.

If you are the Supply Side, u also will not Supply 1,000 units if there is anticipated 1,000 Demand.

To build momentum, future profitibility, you will build at most 50% to 60% of anticipated demand.

This is cos

1) Not all of anticipated demand will translate into real sales

2) Company must always be a going concern - if u build 100% today, tomorrow u will go bust

Now the real issue of this anticipated demand, how much is

1) Genuine own stay
2) BBGC - Buy Bu Give Children / Long Term Investment
3) Buy to Flip

The above is based on desirability of demand to the overall industry

A bit of speculation is good

Excesive speculation is bad

Demand in SG has dropped cos the Govt has imposed additional stamp duty on foreign purchasers

HK also imposed additional stamp duty to deter excessive speculation

China has a huge risk of property bubble popping anytime

By cfa28

This post has been edited by jolokia: Nov 10 2014, 06:42 PM

Current cooling measures implemented by government of Malaysia inclusive of state, bank negara and federal:

a) Removal of DIBS

b) Foreigner restrictions increased from 500k to 1 million which was enhanced by breaking to 3 zones in KV
respectively for residential & commercial (in short hot areas in Klang valley had raised the bar to 2 million above)

c) RPGT (disposal of property within 5 years) in force 2014 are now chargeable tax:
1-3 year= 30%
4 year= 20 %
5 year= 15%

d) DSR (debt to service ratio) in force on August 2013
loans approved are based on 70% max from your nett salary

e) Maximum loans tenure up to 35 years or max 70 years

f) Government intervention in building affordable houses

g) 3rd and above house maximum loans of 70% from financial institutions

h) etc

Current price range : mostly sub sales are priced between 300k to 800k
: mostly new launches are priced between 400k to 1 million

Current rental price range./most optimum demanded rentals : between 1.2k to 2k

most new launches rental yields will score negative rental yields especially 500k category or 300k above properties above

***
for newbie/first time corner to own a house:
a)due to the current price of new launch are withing 400k to 1 million,new launches tend to have package and minimum down payments as possible to facilitate buyers to own a property

b) as for sub sales groups, due to the properties within the region of 300k to 800k, buyers now need to provide the following:
i) down payments (around 30k to 80k, depending on range)
ii) legal fees for Sales & purchase agreement ( around RM2.25k to RM6.5K)
iii) legal fees for loan agreement (same around RM2.25k to RM6.5K )
iv) stamp duty for Sales & purchase agreement (RM5K to RM18K)
v) stamp duty for loan agreement (RM1.5K to RM 4K)

**all in buyers/newbie need to fork out a range of (RM45k (for a RM300K property to RM115 K (for a 800k property), not inclusive of disbursement which may easily cost 10k for all the above (depending of firms) renovation, and etc, just mere basic unit or old sub sales with renovated

the calculation can be found below link, put in your figure into the S&P/loan/STAMP DUTY calculator:



Units available:
a) apartments
b) condo
c) double storey
d) Towns house
e) Semi detached & Bungalows

**Mass supplies are mostly found in category b & c

Upcoming property challenges and external factors:

a) affordability (higher entry prices with down payment, legal fees stamp duty)
b) OPR/BLR increase
c) Inflation
d) Property price going up (resulting stretching away from valuation)
e) Transaction volume
f) Competitive packages
g) Government affordable houses
h) GST implementation

Upcoming factors boosting property property price /external factors:

a) MRT completion
b) star LRT extension
c) MRT extension (Putrajaya-Klang extension)
d) population increase (migration of population to KV & johor)
e) government package of stamp duty exemption of 50% on properties below 400k and below 500k( terms and condition applies just in force after budget applies to loans too)
f) developers are bypassing DIBS programmer (by giving high rebates, such as marking up prices and etc) to qualify lower entry
h) Financial institutions are offering to cover all interest served during constructions by either factoring into the loan sums

Outlook of properties that were risky of correction in TS personal opinions are for properties purchased 1st hand (developers sales):

a) those range below 100k ( flats & apartments are best bargain chip, no bubble and renal yields are the best, suffer hardship in selling due to old units)

b) those range below 300k ( apartments & maybe condos & townhouse or even double storey in some areas consider very good bargain in sub sales as these sub sales price falls within the region of the lower bracket of affordability i.e maybe around 400k to below 500k, rental yields also good as design are more modern especially condos)

c) those range below 500k ( mid end & high end condos, apartments, double storey , semi D in some cases) quite risky investment as the sub sales price are climbing up to 700k above region in sub sales and mostly located outskirt properties or newer/modern properties especially outskirts projects like Semenyih, Bangi, Rawang, Seremban, or high rise within city center and mature areas.

d) those range 600k and above ( latest generation of property double storey, semi D's and bungalows with most modern facilities and facades) investment is rare is this category , most developers are holding to these properties with these pricing.. no competitions meant for own stay category

** categories a & b can be considered as blue chips in properties, even they can be sold, the rental yields covers as median /optimum rental demands are between 1.2k to 2k (highest demands)

**category c are highly likely to face bubble with vacant units

**category d shall remain resilient in price, these are meant for own stay products and if there are invetors, it will be a long terms ones

Other factors/abusive factors which push the property price by using (agency body & financial institutions):
** detail explanation will provided later

a) Marking up prices normally sub sales (malpractice by valuers, loan officers, owners & buyer)
b) soft launch, official launch, for VVIP's, investors clubs, developers staffs and etc
c) reintroduction of rebates/DIBS into the property buying activity by returning money back upon completion, no need down payment is needed and etc), one of it is by jacking up the price.
d) deployment of potential buyers by developers to portray a good/hot buying project
e) refinancing activity to buy more term by borrowing more monies under the cheap interest of (BLR 6.85- 2.45=4.XX) rather than personal loans/constructions loans/and etc to prolong the sub prime crisis while awaiting time pass to pay for sub sales
f) sales & purchase activity between family members like selling to family to get loans that can be used to service loans and prolong the defaulting period
g) developers launching new phases with higher price, this has to do with mentality to the coming investors or recurring investors, by launching prices higher, this gives them a feel of "paper gain" scenario
h) suppressing bad news about property investment & those disseminating it

Copyright BearBear Wong (President of LYN DDD Club)..

Continuations from Cybermaster98 4 critical sign of property bubble & Bearbearwong Multi factor of property bubble.

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3381037

The collapse of the US housing market bubble emphasizes how important it is to figure out what property is really worth, from a fundamental perspective. Make sure you’re not over-paying!

There are 4 yardsticks to avoid buying in bubble markets:

•Price to Rent Ratio (or Yield)
•Relative Prices
•Affordability
•Price of new builds


VALUATION TOOL 1: THE PRICE TO RENT RATIO

The gross rental yield) is the housing parallel to the price/earnings ratio. Here is a set of rules of thumb for the housing market:

VALUATION YARDSTICKS FOR THE HOUSING MARKET

PRICE/RENT RATIO GROSS RENTAL YIELD (%)
5 20 Very undervalued
6.7 15 Very undervalued
8.3 12 Undervalued
10 10 Undervalued
12.5 8 Borderline undervalued
14.2 7 Fairly priced
16.7 6 Fairly priced
20 5 Borderline overvalued
25 4 Overvalued
33.3 3 Overvalued
40 2.5 Very overvalued
50 2 Very overvalued

But there are exceptions to this. When strong future growth in value is expected e.g in areas where transport infrastructure is being upgraded then relatively weak present earnings can be acceptable.

There are several good reasons why people should pay attention to the 'valuation parameters':

Higher rental yields push the housing market higher

If rental yield levels are high, this will tend to mean that the interest cost of buying a house is low, compared to the cost of renting a house:

•Potential buyers will pay less to borrow from the bank (in order to buy) than they pay when renting a house. Many will move from being renters to buyers.
•Entrepreneurs will find it makes sense to buy houses to make money, i.e., buy in order to rent them out.

Both these factors put upward pressure on house prices.

Lower rental yields put downward pressure house prices

If rental yield levels are low, this will tend to mean that the interest cost of buying a house is high, compared to the cost of renting a house:

•Potential buyers will find that to buy a house involves paying much more to the bank, than it costs to rent a house. Buyers, especially first-time buyers, may have difficulty financing housing. Banks will be worried about over-lending at loan-to-income ratios which mean that a slight increase in interest rates will mean financial crisis for the borrower.
•Entrepreneurs will find that buying-to-let won't pay.

The house price can be viewed as a kind of circle, with houses prices moving from yields of (say) 4% to 11%

•Yields shifting down to 4% would represent danger.
•Yields rising to 11% would signal opportunity.


VALUATION TOOL 2: RELATIVE PRICES

People tend to actively look for cheaper and better alternatives. Where houses are very highly priced, people will seek more affordable alternatives. So if you’re buying property that’s amazingly expensive on a sqaure foot basis compared to its surrounding developments – BEWARE!


VALUATION TOOL 3: AFFORDABILITY

If house prices are so high that few people can actually afford to buy them, then their value will likely fall in future. A reasonable measure of value is a country’s GDP per capita. In a country where the ratio of house prices to GDP/capita is high, it’s a fair bet that houses are overvalued.

Relative to GDP/Capita levels:
•House prices in Luxembourg, Belgium, Norway, Denmark and Austria seem cheap.
•House prices in the UK, Italy, France and the Netherlands seem comparatively expensive.


VALUATION TOOL 4: PRICE OF NEW BUILDS

If house prices are much higher than the cost of building (construction costs), developers are motivated to put up buildings. So when you see a rush by developers to build, that’s a danger sign. As new supply comes into the housing market, that tends to put pressure on prices. So when house prices are far greater than new-build costs, it's a very clear signal that prices are likely to come down.

As requested buy Latuk Manutdgidds LYN grand master grade property investors since 1980's.


This post has been edited by jolokia: Nov 10 2014, 08:35 AM

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014...e-don-t-buy-one

1.) You can afford a sizable down payment to cushion you from the effects of local economic downturns or you have a super-stable job, such as working for the government or your father-in-law, that makes you unlikely to ever miss any payments.
2.) You can afford the maintenance as well as the payments, insurance and property taxes.
3.) You have good disability and/or mortgage insurance to make sure that you do not miss any payments even if you break your back and can’t do your job anymore.
4.) You are pretty sure you do not want to leave your area or move to a larger, more expensive home anytime in the next five years.
5.) Your payment is a reasonable percentage of your take-home pay (I shoot for under 25 percent; anything over 35 percent is far too risky).
6.) You have a sizable emergency fund to deal with contingencies.
7.) You can afford other forms of savings, rather than counting on your house as a piggy bank for future needs. In general, if declining home prices would send you into a hysterical panic about your financial situation, you are buying too much house.

Ok fellow member, please feel to give comments not only base on topic alone, as long as not total out of discussion topic, it is acceptable.

I will not press report button to avoid answer.

No need to work meh ? We bought property need to work to earn moolah to pay installment mah, like you meh no burden, no house, no car, no wife & children.

Don't lepak so much hoh, Boss might be watching.

After one bought house they work harder to ensure can afford installment are paid monthly, Good social impact.

While those still watching here & there no so keen on work, waste whole day in forum make unproductive comments..

House price up productivity increased..

That's why he always ask us to shared failed investment story loh, if shares successful investment story then great impact towards his present life, can't take it.
Careful hoh, nowadays people learn to click report buton, sikit2 lipot, says u all personal attack him, 377A ..lol

Temporary locked till V12 reach it limit.

Continue from V12

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3381037


Welcome continue our discussion here


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This post has been edited by jolokia: Nov 4 2014, 06:36 PM

Bear2 lai ! We continue discuss here, as forum rule each thread cannot exceed 2500 posts.

What I show you is Singapore figure, 3.9% just average taking into account ultra expensive properties ay Sentosa Island & Some super expensive condo in prime area.

The rest HDB & Mid price property price drop very much less than 3 9%.

That why I said you don't worth 5.5K your boss paying you, alway read a report the other way around, rich people see this as good news yet you see it as bad... pengsan

Singaland govt want their people see they are doing good job, but in reality the property price remained high, like departmental store show 70% discount but item price been jack up few folds before the sales, they still earn lucrative profit selling to yiu at discount price..

Bear2 very simpletons person, if I am your boss I will only pay 2K for you. ..kekeke

Don't simply says lah ! Bear2 like care bear got shining heart one, See he come in liao ! Faster greet him..

Bear2 super speculation then follow by normal growth mean High price is here to stay hoh ! if really bubble sign mean after super speculation it will stagnant zero growth for 2 years untill people feed up waiting & start disposing to cash in & move to other investment.

But now doesn't look like it, is more like people already accept this new price tag, owner would nit let go at anything less.

Few of us already tell you mah ! we don't borrowed till above nose one, we always buy slight below our max & prepared for raining days, those days when people borrow using gross income, zero entry, DIBS is over lah ! they already earn hefty return, now they also careful.

In investment they are hantam time & they are cautious time & holding time, 2009-2011 is wacko buy time, as any rubbish also can earn few fold profits, after that 2012-2014 is cautious time, selected buy, after 2015-above is holding time, as long as you can hold eventually buyer will have to give in eg. People can delayed wedding for how long ? die2 must buy right, at that time whack them kao2 loh.. no buy ah ? GF find other people to buy loh..

That why we advise you don't buy above your mean loh ! Bear2 if you buy 350-400K would you be heavy debt or not ? sap2 sui right ? offcoz if you whack 730K then jialat lah ! that why I teach you if you wanna spend 730K then buy 2 units 365K, 1 to lived 1 to invest l/rental, like that you pay 1 house get 2 house loh, few years later you sell 1 off total debt free & can upgrade already.

Good idea or not, see come here you get free consultation. .

Aiyoh Bear2 so Big also you didn't noticed meh !

Bear2 lai liao lah..

Don't simply says lah ! Bear2 like care bear got shining heart one, See he come in liao ! Faster greet him..

Bear2 super speculation then follow by normal growth mean High price is here to stay hoh ! if really bubble sign mean after super speculation it will stagnant zero growth for 2 years untill people feed up waiting & start disposing to cash in & move to other investment.

But now doesn't look like it, is more like people already accept this new price tag, owner would nit let go at anything less.

Few of us already tell you mah ! we don't borrowed till above nose one, we always buy slight below our max & prepared for raining days, those days when people borrow using gross income, zero entry, DIBS is over lah ! they already earn hefty return, now they also careful.

In investment they are hantam time & they are cautious time & holding time, 2009-2011 is wacko buy time, as any rubbish also can earn few fold profits, after that 2012-2014 is cautious time, selected buy, after 2015-above is holding time, as long as you can hold eventually buyer will have to give in eg. People can delayed wedding for how long ? die2 must buy right, at that time whack them kao2 loh.. no buy ah ? GF find other people to buy loh..

That why we advise you don't buy above your mean loh ! Bear2 if you buy 350-400K would you be heavy debt or not ? sap2 sui right ? offcoz if you whack 730K then jialat lah ! that why I teach you if you wanna spend 730K then buy 2 units 365K, 1 to lived 1 to invest l/rental, like that you pay 1 house get 2 house loh, few years later you sell 1 off total debt free & can upgrade already.

Good idea or not, see come here you get free consultation. .

Aiyoh Bear2 so Big also you didn't noticed meh !

Bear2 lai liao lah..

As long as you have income you can afford to service loan right ? Anyway loan have period one mah can borrow indefinitely ? cannot right ? what do mean credit got stuck ? the long you pay the less you hutang bank mah.

I already told you don't borrow till the nose mah didn't i ? now you know my advise to you to use 1/3 income or less for housing loan ? 1/3 for expenses, 1/3 for saving 1/3 for household debt loh, you mean you wanna hantam till pocket kosong end of the month ah, don't hoh Bear2 later you kena repo by your own college oh very malu leh.

Anyway it depend on individual mah, some people sibeh lucky got rich support like PAMA, Relatives, Sibling, Rich Spouse, Sungar Daddy/Mummy then they can hantam everything loh, some not so lucky got heavy family burden then hantam less loh, like you getting married soon can't be hantam 70% income balance 30% yourself also not enough lah, ask wife to pay all family expenses meh, like that she will cabut lah,,

Investment game are very much alive lah, just speculation may be not so lucrative like those days in term of percentage, but money value may still be there, those day many 200 & 300 tokens can sell 400 - 500 tokens upon VP, now is like 400 - 500 tokens can earn 500 - 650 tokens loh. still sibeh good compare to other investment like share can untung can rugi, this is like sure untung but how much untung only.

Bear2 transaction already going up lah, the previous already shows people rush in to buy before GST, you didn't read or selective reading again ? Secondary some owner know price will UUU after GSt they keep lah, like i ask you if you have properties you know price will go up in next few month, would you stewpit enough to sell now or not ? so transaction down doesn't only mean people don't buy cound be people don't wanna sell also mah.. correct ??

That why loh i tell you now price not yet stagnant is still growing but at slower phase, could be people not willing to sell also they can wait, only is price drop kao2 only mean people cannot hold, don;t forget hoh even sell to you now laso consider huge profit already.

You like to mentioned One South thats 100K profit from you if you buy now, as its a zero entry DIBS & owner only pay few months installment but can gained 33% profit, you know any other investment with that kind of return ah ?

Some investor not even interest to cash out as they treat property as fixed deposit, they rather keep property compare to cash, as cash will shrink over inflation, property is a safe bet to counter inflation even with 5-10% increase yearly.

Understand mao ? Lian Zhai ?

This post has been edited by jolokia: Nov 5 2014, 08:45 AM

U got confuse or not ?

here in Malaysia different story lah.

Been able to borrowed at very low down payment mean your credit worthiness is good lah, it's those who no very reliable one that bank will ask you to put down more down payment as they don't wanna take risk on you.

those day property price surge like no tomorrow, even you default bank more than happy to take over your property as they can make more profit on selling you property than wait for your 35 years interest.

Now you see bank more cautious on borrowing, which is why Ah bear cannot secure loan for Goodview with his 5.5K income loh, if not he would have bought long time already.

See or not ? Our Bank not stewpit lah, they calculate the risk before approved loan one.

I know you regret selling off too early, now days & night dream property will crash & give your round 2 chance to buy, but hoh if market indeed crash, people have no money to eat expensive ice cream woh, you boss would close the stall & retrench you or replace by Bangla which only ask for half your pay, got cheap deal also you no money to hantam..

This post has been edited by jolokia: Nov 5 2014, 01:09 PM

[quote=bearbearwong,Nov 5 2014, 09:22 AM]
[quote=jolokia,Nov 5 2014, 08:43 AM]
As long as you have income you can afford to service loan right ? Anyway loan have period one mah can borrow indefinitely ? cannot right ? what do mean credit got stuck ? the long you pay the less you hutang bank mah.

of course there are terms TS.. credit locked means you borrowing power is now locked with invested.. cant invest others

I already told you don't borrow till the nose mah didn't i ? now you know my advise to you to use 1/3 income or less for housing loan ? 1/3 for expenses, 1/3 for saving 1/3 for household debt loh, you mean you wanna hantam till pocket kosong end of the month ah, don't hoh Bear2 later you kena repo by your own college oh very malu leh.

Of course I know to cover my own back.. no need to worry.. as discussed.. you are sure the buyers will utilise their 1/3 nett to buy the mass supplies in d market within 400k to 800k section.. oh ya trolling Ts will say properties are for rich in MALAI

Told you already mah ! Now bank more strict on rules, they don't simply borrowed you 70% of nett income unless you have special cagaran, so you think Ice Cream Stall Assistant salary can buy 800K proprtty or not ? You go try ask bank to borrow you 800K using you sole income see can approved or not ? don't use guarantor ah !

Anyway it depend on individual mah, some people sibeh lucky got rich support like PAMA, Relatives, Sibling, Rich Spouse, Sungar Daddy/Mummy then they can hantam everything loh, some not so lucky got heavy family burden then hantam less loh, like you getting married soon can't be hantam 70% income balance 30% yourself also not enough lah, ask wife to pay all family expenses meh, like that she will cabut lah,,

actually you know the concern is not about some group of ppl rather the majority of class which are being targeted for 400k to 800k section.. 20 cen investors will tink you crazy to have target rich for this.

Another one illogical is you also have properties.. are you in the rich class too or any soon

Aiyah we told your mah, house getting more expensive, soon a large number people can no longer afford a house particulaly in the city (i mean private project lah), like Hong Kong loh, even mid management people cannot afford house unless joint name.

Bear2 our PAMA time owning a 3000sf landed is sap sap shui right ? our uncle time owning a 2000sf DSL also sap sap shui right, even our brother time 1300sf condo also no big deal, but now you see how many can own this property ? Time change & our money shrunked, the rich become richer, poor become poorer loh, which you prefer ?

Investment game are very much alive lah, just speculation may be not so lucrative like those days in term of percentage, but money value may still be there, those day many 200 & 300 tokens can sell 400 - 500 tokens upon VP, now is like 400 - 500 tokens can earn 500 - 650 tokens loh. still sibeh good compare to other investment like share can untung can rugi, this is like sure untung but how much untung only.

means property confirm untung ah? Check within kv any fail projects

name me one not earning money ? more or less only mah


Bear2 transaction already going up lah, the previous already shows people rush in to buy before GST, you didn't read or selective reading again ? Secondary some owner know price will UUU after GSt they keep lah, like i ask you if you have properties you know price will go up in next few month, would you stewpit enough to sell now or not ? so transaction down doesn't only mean people don't buy cound be people don't wanna sell also mah.. correct ??

ya meh.. you say up only izzit.. agency investors say very down sentiment wor.. law firms too recorded low transaction.. where again high transaction? New launch with freebies izzit

if good still waste time here for wat.. buy more.. green residence 2 towers unsold waitingvyou and list of completed units like OUG..one south

I have new target lah, but i quiet now first, not like you hoo haa Goodview never buy later all kena gasap.

That why loh i tell you now price not yet stagnant is still growing but at slower phase, could be people not willing to sell also they can wait, only is price drop kao2 only mean people cannot hold, don;t forget hoh even sell to you now laso consider huge profit already.

You like to mentioned One South thats 100K profit from you if you buy now, as its a zero entry DIBS & owner only pay few months installment but can gained 33% profit, you know any other investment with that kind of return ah ?

sold already or not... 100k gross profit.. RPGT belum kira

Aiyah you scare RPGT mah wait few more years loh, some more that aread sibeh senang rent out & rental also sibeh high, like Fortune Park & East Lake, you also donno those adv 400K is genuine or not ? maybe onwer require you pay big amount cash deposit leh.

Some investor not even interest to cash out as they treat property as fixed deposit, they rather keep property compare to cash, as cash will shrink over inflation, property is a safe bet to counter inflation even with 5-10% increase yearly.

Izzit hold? Cost free hold? Maintenance free hold? Holding but same time see many yellow banners for sale and many ad for sale?

Easy rent to Rich Middle East Student mah, can profit every month like you sub rent to your relative

But even assume what you say is true..not bad too their prop after super speculation.. enjoying 5 to 10 % increment means more expensive.. new launch coming.. credit lock too

What credit lock, like that even Robert, Ananda, KT Lim also credit lock loh, sure mah, how much you worth is how much you can loan, lu crazy endless loan meh ? you slowly build income then can loan more loh ! Like that i go bank ask Teh, Azman borrow me 1 billion to buy property but my income only 1500/mth can ah ?

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Bear2 you like to ask same question over & over again like children lah, i anwer you 1 time you remember lah, you go ask Tua Pek Kong also need to pay angpow each time leh..

This post has been edited by jolokia: Nov 5 2014, 01:31 PM

That why property loan bank no worry loh The long the lower the loan balance but higher property value..

Aiyoh most already start payment lah, but you see any fire sales or not ?

Even got fire sales it will not be reaching your hand lah..

Ice cream is junk food leh, no essential unless for depressed student lah..

Bear says only if majority can afford your product then consider salable, but most of the time i cross your franchise not many people line up woh, must be speculative item

Lu ada betul boh ? OUG Parklane already sell 97% lah , phase 1 only 11 units with developer, phase 2 fully sold off 100%, only phase 3 with about 100 units.

Still not good enough ah ? Any project sure got some unsold units, it could be developer own self keep some units to fix benchmark for their property, i know 1 project developer take up few unit to sell at high price so that those buyer can price their unit close to it, sales gimik mah !

Bear2 you really newbies in property lah..

Why you wanna kepoh Amaya, thats how many years story liao, you got follow up with him or not ? maybe he now sibeh kaya drive benz leh,,

If Jliew sell me his Midfields 2 at 600K when it VP, now it self i pay him earnest deposit liao,,

No every one after bought come here blow trumpet mah, worst still go in & our revolving door of SHL end up didn't buy anything..

So can get cheap price or not ? Any owner offer you 20% discount boh ?

I wonder Studio Vs No House, which is worst ?

I also no degree, i have grade 3 SPM only.

You look me down also ah ?

You bad people ..