i've read up regarding those transmissions, but i still don't quite get it.

AT - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_transmission
AMT (semi-auto?) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_transmission

from what i see, AMT (like the ones found on Savvy) is like MANUAL but you have a little-monkey somewhere doing the clutch work based on certain input the internal computer gathers.

but how does that differ compare to AT? considering that both changes gear automatically as you drive.

AMT dun change gear automatically. u only no need to clutch.

oh izzit?



here's the thing (probably the info that mislead me)

look at this, refer to page 2.

http://www.proton-edar.com.my/user_data/me...e_savvy_amt.pdf

now it says to the left is Automatic / Manual selection. so what does that actually mean?

i thought it meant that with AMT i could
1. automatic - drive it like how i would drive an auto, where it changes gear for me.
2. manual - drive it like manual, just that the gear goes up / down instead of the usual H shape.

some more in Page 3 it mentioned

With the ability to switch between manual and automatic driving mode at the tap of a gearlever.

so.........which is which now?

This post has been edited by goldfries: Sep 5 2006, 05:04 PM

Manual clutches are more efficient then Automatic gears which requires torque converters. That's why they are more powerful and fuel efficient.

AMT is using Manual clutch technology but it takes away all the stupid torque converter and junks and have a monkey change your gears instead...

So it is like the ease of an Auto Gear but the power of a manual gear.

dunno about other cars, nv see before, but for savvy this is real.
the gear can switch between D,1,2,3,4,5,R and N, no P though.
and.. no clutch

which makes me quite confused between auto and amt also

The meaning should be when you are in Auto Gear 3 / 4 or else , you can change to Manual .
or the other way round.

Manual gear 4 to auto or so on.

I guess la.

this one pretty much summarizes it nicely. thx.

like said earlier, automatic tranny requires a torque converter which is a series of plates and clutches that sap power from the engine to operate thus creates an ineficientcy compared to a manual clutch

amt IS NOT AN AUTOMATIC, it is technically a manual but with a hydraulically actuated clutch (the monkey) conected to a ecu. what it does is that the engages and disengages the clutch for u when u want to change gears. in simple terms, if u want the computer to do the gear switching for u, just pop it in auto mode and the ecu will do the rest. the gear stick is not mechanically connected to the gearbox compared to a manual, but connected by a wire to the ecu, with this then u can do ala steptronic.

My 2 cents,

AMT = Automated Manual Transmission = Automatic clutch activation.

A manual gearbox but with a monkey doin the engaging and disengaging the clutch.

Standard Auto = 'Oil based' transmission, smooth since most new cars are installed with electronically controlled boxes

AMT = autoclutch manual car. Need to release pedal abit when shifting else will jerk.

The Savvy one is also a sequential right? Up/down for upshift/downshift?

Sequential in quick succession. It 's possible with AMT.

Guys check and compare the PRICE of PROTON's torque converter with AMT gearbox...you will be shocked to death.

Can AMT(or in this article, SMT) really perform rev-matching like mentioned in this article?

SMTs can also perform matched-rev (our double-clutch) downshifts: When the driver downshifts, the SMT disengages the clutch, shifts to neutral, and re-engages the clutch. The SMT calculates what the engine RPMs will be in the next-lowest gear based on the current road speed, and revs the engine (and, since the clutch is engaged, the transmission) to that speed. It then disengages the clutch, shifts into the lower gear, and re-engages the clutch. The result is a smooth change with no jerk and no sudden deceleration.

EDIT:
@hypermount.
Now I see the AMT costs half as much as an Auto.
Wow, higher tech but at a lower price.

This post has been edited by tunertoobe: Sep 7 2006, 04:52 PM

the savvy AMT cannot do that, but if u get your timing right, doing heel and toe will make changes smooth. its not the latest in technology like the offerings from BMW and the newer alfa's. however if left in full monkey mode (auto), u do have to lift off the throttle to get good upshifts without jerks. to make a comparison, just think of alfa's first generation 156 (if u have driven one or sat in one) and u would not be too far off...

and yes, the AMT gearbox price is the same as a manual price but i dunno how much is the actuator.
i dunno bout savvy but the last time i asked proton how much was waja auto and was quaoted 22K.

I see, well that's enough to put me off.
I want to practice heel and toe.

dont be put off lah, at first i also like that, but then after driving it, my mind changed, then power and handling is great for a car at that price. the gearchange will be much better once u get used to it...

Hehe, I know it'll be more fun. But I want to try good ol' manual first.

yaya... manual still da best... i have trash... ehem...driven 2 cars in manual and one in AMT, the manual clutch is kinda short and high (like an on off switch), quite hard to modulate... both manual cars like that... so i think its the character and takes some getting used to. but the gearchanges are accurate and snappy, but u do feel quite a bit of vibrations on the gearknob when accelerating in gear.

H&T on Savvy AMT is easier, only got 2 pedals to work on .

The vibrations on the Savvy gearknob is due to rod-linkage system being used which is directly connected to the transmissionas. Many other compact cars use cable-actuated shift mechanism. Rod-linkage is more sturdy built.

When you feel the vibrations, you will feel like the car is alive and pulsating. You can feel the car passionately.

Sequential just means that the gearbox do not use the H shift pattern. Anything that uses a those flappy pedals or up/down gear sticks and you are required to shift in a sequence are called sequential gearboxes.

So the AMT is a sequential gearbox as you have to shift the gear from 1 to 2 to 3 and cannot jump from 1 to 3 like a standard H configuration gearbox.

Usually, when we stop, we'll need to go from Gear 4 directly to gear 1 for manual rite??

In AMT, we can go straight from gear 4 to 1 to need to shift down 4,3,2,1??

for AMT
lets say u stop the car at traffic lights on 4th, it will automatically shift back to 1st....

but on the roll, u cannot go from 4th to 1st, got to do it in sequence ( 4th,3rd,2nd,1st)

its something like BMW's SMG... its like any other semi auto tranny
but this is from renault ?
if not mistaken its a manual with automated clutch which is useless..

Care to explain why being a manual with automated clutch is useless? The SMG is a manual with an automated clutch, so is that useless too? Automated clutch is not the same as an automatic transmission.

In very simple terms,

Manual = manual, with clutch and manually-operated clutch pedal

Auto = no clutch, uses hydraulic torque converter instead (a manual car doesn't have this)

AMT = exactly the same as manual but imagine you have a robot automating the clutch pedal for you

That's it.

The AMT in the Savvy uses the same technology as BMW's SMG, Ferrari's F1, Lamborghini's E-Gear and Alfa's Selespeed. Some Audis use a system called DSG, which is an AMT but it comes with two clutches (gives you the smoothness of an auto but the effciency of a manual. Very heavy though!).

It is totally different from the automatic gearbox found in any Mercedes (including the SLR!), Toyota, Honda or most other manufacturers, which use straight auto gearboxes (not manual) with a torque converter. Even Porsche's Tiptronic is an auto box, not AMT.

AMT is much better than auto in terms of efficiency. For those who say AMT is useless, all modern Rally and F1 cars use AMT (though of course more advanced).

It has been proven time and time again that the same driver can lap an AMT car faster around any circuit than the manual version of the same car (for example, the BMW M3, or the Ferrari 360), even when the weight and gearing is exactly the same.

But I still prefer manual though - more in touch with the mechanics of the car and more "fun".

AMT gives you the same degree of control, expect that you cannot shortshift (i.e. go from 2 to 4 or 3 to 5). Technically the gearbox is capable of shortshifting with no problem, but the implementation in production cars only goes up or down by one step so in practice you cannot do it.

This post has been edited by DeaDLocK: Sep 10 2006, 02:42 PM

ok i personally tested the Savvy AMT today - cool car. really liked it, especially when in the manual mode.

tend to feel some revving and stuff during gear change in auto mode, prefer manual mode cos the power more consistent.

i like the fact that i can switch to either auto / manual at any point of the drive. way cool

getting savvy goldries?

I think we can put the gear to neutral from any gear in AMT. Just flick the gear lever to either left or right.

But dunno leh cos I've never driven one..

quite likely. just don't know when. of course, i have to test out Myvi first but the Savvy is high on my list already.

yes.

just shove the gear to the left to switch between auto / manual ( ok la it' s not auto as in AT, but auto change gear for you). shove the gear to the right to neutral it.

driving just like manual la, hear the engine rev quite high already then time to switch gear.

haha... no need to waste time to test drive the other one la

what other one? today i've come to a conclusion that Myvi is not what i want - other than space that is.

1. the 1.3AT Myvi is known to be underpowered.
2. the 1.3AT Myvi is more expensive that 1.2 AMT Savvy
3. the manuals are out of my choice since i want something that's Auto
4. Savvy has nice FC but i've not heard that for 1.3AT Myvi

ok la lazy to list all - or else AT vs AMT discussion will become why i choose Savvy discussion.

btw the Savvy, i like the AMT manual mode best. feels like driving in NFS:MW cos i play all NFS games using manual. and even since NFS2, the gear shifts has always been sequential. so to me, it's not a problem - let's just hope i don't enter blacklist la.

i was reffering to myvi... hehe...

well u need to compare and see urself why is the hoohahype about some particular model.. does it really liveup to its reputatatin.

You need to change the gear to neutral when stopping ( ie. traffic lights) the transmission fault lamp will lit on as the transmission in D will keep searching for a correct gear even you pressing brake..it's unlike conventional auto you can stop in D.

If u press brake, it will automatically downshift for you...AMT is like brake-activated transmission system too where brake n the trans are related to each other.

Glad you will be choosing one..I know how u felt too when I first test drove many cars before settling down on Savvy...every type of car has its own personality just like humans.

i only bash Proton. not their cars. i find of all Proton Cars, the Savvy is probably the only one........well other than Waja, that's worth it's price.

anyway back to topic.

i'm still not sure how to explain AMT to people.

what i usually say is AMT is MT that works like AT minus stuff like the torque converter and such.

now the thing is, in Savvy it's not only clutchless-manual ie sequential gear-shifting without clutch - that part is easy to understand. now the part harder for me (to understand and to explain) is that it comes with automatic gear changes, does other AMT come with automatic gear changes? or is it just on Savvy?

people usually get confused at this point, it's like so it's an auto that's not an auto? heck even Proton SAs are still telling me AMT is auto auto auto....

possibly the easiest thing to say about it is that its an automatically-shifting transmission with a manual sequential ovveride function

so how would you respond when people hear the above bolded part and ask - "so doesn't that make it an auto already?"

Yes, all other AMTs or SMGs and Sequential gearboxes have an automatic function where you can put the gear into "D" and drive it like an automatic gearbox. You just have to watch enough Jeremy Clarkson videos to see how much he hates the D function as it is very jerky in urban driving on low gears.

must tell me where to download more Top Gear.

but really, i found the D function annoying myself. that also i only drove the car for less than 10 minutes.

LOL most of the time that category of questions usually come from people who are ignorant enough to be rated dumb blonds

possibly if the person really wants to know the lowdown on AMT transmissions, he/she should be rajin enough to research it on autozine or some other automotive engineering source.

sleepwalker - the one where he stalled the DB9 on a wharf?

topgear episode listing can be found at *koff*final*koff*gear*koff*dotcom*koff*

This post has been edited by kev da man: Sep 18 2006, 02:34 PM

now i understand bout savvy that use AMT transmission...n how bout naza bestari aka 206...it use tiptronic transmission...is it same mechanical bout only different name..???

savvy amt really playing with consumers brain for all this time.........

Bestari's tiptronic is basically another hydraulic torque converter type automatic transmission as u found in most car like myvi, honda and bla bla but introduce the manual gear shifting option in a + - style, older type L, 2, D N, R automatic still can shift too but not so ergonomic n fun to do so, so in simple another joke from car manufacturer

Savvy amt is automated manual transmission like other said earlier, still a manual gear box that use clutch plates and hydraulic actuators to do the job; the AMT and SMG use extra electronics to perform the clutch action for u, jeremey clarkson always complain about this because everyone drive and everytime also drive differently; too hard to perdict

personally i like the monkey part u guys refer, nice term; bravo

hydraulic torque converter serves as a mechanical damper to smooth out the jerking in between gear changes but clutches dun have such advantage, so it's all depends on electronic programming itself;

btw advance automatic transmission do have a lockup torque converter that as efficient as manual transmission (usually apply from 3rd gear and above) and manual transmission does not necessary better; clutches slip do lost power too and normally it's undetected untill too late

i blame the people, not the name.

strangely people view AMT instead of AMT

they never bother to understand what it is and straight say it's AT.

I think it has to do with the fact that people can guess the word with the first and last letter thingy............hahaha


actually if I were to have an issue with the savvy it would be the price of spares......Renault prices definitely not cheap.

This post has been edited by sakaic: Nov 16 2006, 02:07 AM

isn't it just a manual transmission with auto clutch? lolz.........

well.....not really. The way the gearbox engages gears is slightly different. For starters, these gearboxes do not have syncro gears. 2nd, they are sequential.Which means the gears are stacked in order instead of the usual H-pattern engagement which means that the usual gear arrangement is like 4-3-2-1-5 whereas these gearboxes are 1-2-3-4-5.

Thats why they shift so fast.

The difference between AMT and AT is so simple, but it's hard to explain it to people who don't know much about cars, but I say the key word(s) is TORQUE CONVERTER.

does this means that an AMT is better or same performance than MT?as it use same gearbox rite?sorry larr..dun know much bout cars..

Got another question. If yr AMT breaks down, how much to replace or repair? Wanna see how high is the cost of ownership for the Savvy AMT.

offtopic : cvt is at transmission...does cvt use torque converter??

This is interesting topic, but no more reply?