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Darkcity212
post Feb 11 2015, 04:05 PM

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may i ask, which scholars thought muslims to kill and bomb the murika/jews?
Darkcity212
post Feb 12 2015, 10:18 AM

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QUOTE(xein @ Feb 11 2015, 06:08 PM)
Ask those who did the bombing.
Most of us muslims here don't go around bombing others. So we would not know which scholar did.
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that's because of modern islam scholars. but my religious muslim friends told me that actually is the core and basic foundation of islam. which is to defeat infidels and sacrifice yourself by any means by the name of allah. but as time changes and muslims became modernised, many are afraid to die nor sacrifice . which is why those who sacrificed themself to infidels are highly looked upon and saluted by many muslims.when 9-11 was bombed many of my muslim friends say they get what they deserve and only a few modern muslims like u think it is not right
Darkcity212
post Feb 12 2015, 10:27 AM

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muslim laws are implemented for muslims to abide by and if u go against it for example converting, close proximity, rape, etc, they will be punished dearly. those intruders or disbelivers who interrupts the muslim law are considered infidels and will also be punished by any means. which gives them a good reason to be supported by suiciding and creating chaos all over the world. this gives a very good opportunity for the devil
Darkcity212
post Feb 12 2015, 10:45 AM

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QUOTE(notoriousfiq @ Feb 12 2015, 10:34 AM)
That is what I refer to when I say "traditional teachings".

But let's be clear, the rational and "modern" thinking is not new, and not limited to modern scholars only. Rational thinking has been going on since long ago in the past also. It's just that the traditionalism, the wahabbis, taqleed, grow faster, unfortunately.
Not a matter of become afraid. Its because people come to THINK rationally. Those who salute the suicide bombers, the plane hijackers, they are not thinking, they're just romanticized by the traditional teachings.
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so as u mentioned traditional teachings. which is the core and foundation of islam. many of the majority of muslims still follow islam foundation and only a minority of modern muslims changed the core of islam.
Darkcity212
post Feb 12 2015, 11:22 AM

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then let me ask, is it right for the muslims to suicide and bomb murika Israeli?
Darkcity212
post Feb 12 2015, 03:57 PM

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i thank u guys for responding. dont get me wrong i am a free thinker and i dont believe there's such thing as god but aliens. but im just here curious to know about other religion.as for my opinion, religion to many is just followed by mankind as a trend and to believe something that never exists.therefor when u believe in something, u abide by its command. command that can lead to the good or bad of humanity
Darkcity212
post Feb 12 2015, 04:09 PM

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if there is such thing as god, where is he?waiting in the afterlife?how certain is that?
if there is such thing as god, why the innocent get killed and the villan gets to live till 90?
if there is such thing as god, why anwar get jailed and the bn lives in harmony?
if there is such thing as god, why people pray 10 times a day to be rich but nothing happened?
just take a minute to realise. im not trying to make anyone disbelief their religions but im just sharing my thoughts with an open mind. if anyone can enlighten my questions please share.but not the common respons "he is watching and listening" or "dunia kiamat then only he will appear", pls
Darkcity212
post Feb 12 2015, 04:18 PM

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i know muslims will be butthurt when they hear this but i believe this thread is opened by modern muslims with an open mind to discuss every aspect. im not an athiest, free maison, jewish, or any religious believer. so pls dont be offended. ajaran sesat? nobody ajar me anything. my interpretation is based on observations and with a conscious mind.
Darkcity212
post Feb 12 2015, 04:29 PM

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QUOTE(seiferalmercy @ Feb 12 2015, 04:16 PM)
the world is never meant to be perfect, and its never meant to last

Verily, We shall put you to test with some fear, and hunger, and with some loss of wealth, lives, and offspring. And (O Muhammad) convey good tidings to those who are patient, who say, when inflicted by hardship, "Verily we are of God and verily to Him shall we return;" upon them is the blessings of Allah and His mercy. (2:155

Truly, the life of this world is nothing but a (quick passing) enjoyment, and verily, the Hereafter that is the home that will remain forever." (Quran 40:39)

“If Allah were to punish people according to what they deserve, He would not leave on the back of the (earth) a single living creature: but He gives them respite for a stated Term: when their Term expires, verily Allah has in His sight all His servants." (Fatir:45)

dont lazy, read this
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this quotes, writen by mankind, did the writer got whispered by allah to write such things? and if so as the writer claims, where is the evidence to prove it? should i just believe? there are bibles or qurans that created by mankind centuries ago. did anyone know if it fell from the sky or how they create the contents? i have seen many nice context written in every religion to lead mankind and to live as good individual. and some context written to destroy humanity as well.
as a result, there are no evidence of religious context being delivered from the hereafter but only mankinds own interpretation.
Darkcity212
post Feb 12 2015, 05:04 PM

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QUOTE(seiferalmercy @ Feb 12 2015, 04:51 PM)
actually, if u ponder on it closely, u will find some evidence that the Quran(quran specifically. not other scriptures) was given to human being by a different entity with supreme intellect

consider the following verse :

“Verily We created man from a product of wet earth; then placed him as a drop (of seed) in a safe lodging; then We fashioned the drop into a clot, then We fashioned the clot into a little lump, then We fashioned the little lump into bones, then clothed the bones with flesh, and then produced it another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of Creators!” [23:12-14]

this verse talks about the creation of human being, from our origin as clay, to a human created in the womb.

The Quran has been around 1400 years. No human being at that time had this kind of technology to explain these things
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if the book of life or context has been found, who are they?human clay/sand?the truth is, nobody knows of any occurrences 1400 yrs ago but merely an acclamations created by mankind through then again, words.
it could be aliens who came down to earth and witnesses misinterpret.

Darkcity212
post Feb 12 2015, 05:13 PM

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QUOTE(seiferalmercy @ Feb 12 2015, 04:52 PM)
well the questions are not structured to make it sound polite enough

granted many would blow their top off in a debate

I know Im not buthurt
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this is good.because u are an open minded muslim believer. which leaves u a minority in the muslim world. many others out there, cant think with an open mind, and can't accept facts nor listen but to be concrete with their beliefs. which leaves them very vulnerable. today if a highest muslim scholar woke up and gospel to our fellow muslim men to suicide themself to gain 72 virgins and achieve matyr, they will abide. because of their concrete beliefs.

Darkcity212
post Feb 13 2015, 12:31 PM

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QUOTE(aliesterfiend @ Feb 13 2015, 10:03 AM)
If you can produce another book that is unaltered and have no revisions then maybe you have a point. Qur'an is easy to verify. Get as many copies as you want from various sources (kedai buku, Amazon, beli kat Rusia/Amerika whatever) and find if you can produce different versions.
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im refering to the author my friend.the founder of the book. where does he get the gospels to write the quran? does allah whispers to him? is he a private messenger of allah?
Darkcity212
post Feb 13 2015, 12:50 PM

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QUOTE(aliesterfiend @ Feb 13 2015, 12:35 PM)
He did not write them.  smile.gif The messages came via Gabriel according to traditions. The messages was then passed on to his followers who wrote them.
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and who is gabriel?messenger of god? or merely a god messenger interpretation?
centuries ago people believe the sun is a god. but as technology takes over, everyone knows the sun is just planet of glowing gases therefor no longer worshipping the sun.
as for god, there ar no evidence nor proof yet therefor people still believe in something they dont know.
time will tell, as scientists develop a probe that can be sent billions of miles away to find where our origins has come from. or maybe the us already knew this long ago but remains a secret. as religion is still a necessity for the upbringing of mankind.
Darkcity212
post Feb 13 2015, 01:08 PM

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QUOTE(aliesterfiend @ Feb 13 2015, 01:00 PM)
Gabriel
Not just centuries. Even today people are still praying to the sun.
The is also no evidence that God did not exist. Since the only sure thing is death, I would rather take Pascal's Wager rather than to find that God actually exist after I'm dead.  smile.gif
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if i dont believe? what happens? punished? why dont after i die and ask god, why did u not answer to people's prayer and innocents are suffering if u did exists? why am i wrong not to believe in something i don't know? and as an individual, i live a normal life and not committing any crimes or murder anyone.so do i still get punished just for not believing in u?
I'd rather not believe and question to god if he really did exists in the hereafter.
Darkcity212
post Feb 13 2015, 02:57 PM

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QUOTE(aliesterfiend @ Feb 13 2015, 02:33 PM)
Sure you can do that.  biggrin.gif To each his own. I've done my part.  wink.gif
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that means ur not a true muslim believer. a true muslim will convince others to understand and argue about this. i can't talk like this outside because all the muslims are very sensitive about it and first thing they will tell me is that i am dajal. its nice to meet a minority of good muslims like u

Darkcity212
post Feb 14 2015, 01:42 AM

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QUOTE(notoriousfiq @ Feb 13 2015, 10:31 PM)
Scientific discoveries has indeed change people's view on certain teachings on certain religions. But not on the core belief on the major religions. Time will tell? Perhaps. Who knows? You definitely don't.

You talked about, and praised one being "open", or "listen", and not "concrete on their belief". Are you so yourself? Seems like you're already concrete on your anti-theism, already have your own definition on Islam. Believing you know Islam more than the muslims in front of you.
They surely cannot proof the non-existence of God, but again, these anti-theists derailing, they keep saying "the burden of proof lies of theists", because they don't realize their anti-theism is also a belief system, an ideology, in some way a religion.
You are punished when the cards are adequately laid on the table and you refuse. Yeah, you can ask Him that. Go ahead.

"Something you don't know". "Know". See how that word different from "believe" and "faith"? I already said this, but....  rolleyes.gif
See what I said? You're the one defining if a muslim is a good muslim or not??  laugh.gif 

You first say he's not a "true muslim believer", then you say he's a "good muslim". Exactly what Maher said. Budak baru nak belajar atheism, baru tengok show Bill Maher lah ni..haha
Right. The questions that Darkcity212, asked are quite shallow, and have been in talks in many many debates and discussions. That's why I said he's a new comer in this religious debate. smile.gif
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i refer as a true muslim, or good muslim, as per what the person believes in and i respect that. good muslims, as what i define is a religious individual with a rational thinking. bad muslims, are an example of isis and osama. u may have been offended when i say good and bad muslims, but one with a muslim religion must be all good?

athiest? anthiest? what does that even mean? im not from any particular group or belives so i do not know about this certain party u are referring to. i only believe what i see or one defines is right. im open to listen.
Darkcity212
post Feb 14 2015, 01:51 AM

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QUOTE(notoriousfiq @ Feb 13 2015, 10:40 PM)
When studying about such issue, we shouldn't be biased on only listen to one side of opinion. Let's listen to the nuance, and use our god given intellect (because taqleed is meaningless). This is very important: intellect.

I think this issue is the same with all other celebrations. A person can believe whatever he/she wants, just that don't enforce your belief on other people. And this has been talked about in this thread during Christmas. You can the previous pages.
We wouldn't know, would we? What is your thought?
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what about the muslims of brunei? the sultan implementing full syariah laws on his country.christmas and cny are banned.only celebration behind closed doors and will be punished if seen on the eyes of a muslim.

his enforcement, is acknowledged and approved based on the core of islam. which i respect that as it is a real muslims teachings.

in your opinion, everyone has the rights and freedom to believe or celebrate what he or she wants. so what is the difference and which muslim interpretation is correct? modern or traditional? how many types of interpretation there are in muslim?

Darkcity212
post Feb 14 2015, 01:56 AM

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QUOTE(seiferalmercy @ Feb 13 2015, 10:11 PM)
adakah kebanyakan manusia(termasuk Muslims) akan masuk neraka dulu ?
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"dimana kebenaran itu wujudnya neraka, maka disitulah akan mereka berada "

Darkcity212
post Feb 14 2015, 02:07 AM

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QUOTE(ralfvi @ Feb 13 2015, 08:07 PM)
i think the most simple question you have to ask yourself is
does this universe exist on its own?

if the answer is no , then they must exist a creator.
if your answer is yes then from my point of view it also seems illogical as someone who believe in logic could believe that something so intricate , delicate like the universe and all of its glory can exist on its own.
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i acknowledge there is a creator, but did not acknowledge a creator could be from a certain religious beliefs.
if there is only one creator which what human defines based on his own religion, why are there many beliefs before the evolution of mankind? different race = different gods? it doesn't makes sense.christians believe theres only one creator so as the muslims,chinese,indians,etc.are there multiple gods of different races or there must only be one and the rest are fake? so which one of any religious belief has only one creator?
Darkcity212
post Feb 14 2015, 02:20 AM

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"the most logical explanation to this is aliens. they must have been deported from billions of miles away to earth in one time and mankind misinterpret them as god. "
scientists discovered not too long ago, that there are over a hundred billion galaxies and high possibility of human life.galaxies that have existed billions of years ago before planet earth.isnt it logic to believe the technology they have having existed billions of years before earth? centuries ago, people do not have the technology or telescope to view the galaxy.now that we know, the only logic answer will be known sooner or later.

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