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 MC on Rest Day, need clarification

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TScruel_boy
post Aug 27 2014, 01:30 PM, updated 12y ago

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Our company operates 24/7, in a very remote place. Due to the nature of ongoing working environment, the workers are allowed to carry forward/accumulate their weekly rest day(sunday) and clear end of the month.

Recently, an employee applied for 5 days off. on his 2nd rest day, he obtained 2 days MC and returned to work on 7th day. Can he use mc to offset his rest days, and take longer leave?

Based on employment act, MC on rest day is not acceptable and will not be entitled to replacement. But would it be still the same for our case, where the rest days are not on sunday but carried forward to a latter date?
lawsh
post Aug 27 2014, 01:36 PM

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logically speaking, MC cannot be used to "prolong" his leave
most to most is to "replace" the leave taken ie he gets back the 2 days for later use

btw, he tell you that he will prolong his leave?
TScruel_boy
post Aug 27 2014, 01:52 PM

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as we do not have proper HR department, he only informed his immediate supervisor that he has health issue (50++ y/o). technically, if we're sick and obtained MC on sunday, we're not entitled to additional day off. Unless that MC is obtained during PH or AL.

But in this case, we allow them to stay at site, keep the sundays, and take 4 or 5 days off end of the month. The reason because they stay far from working site, thus weekly 1 day alone is not enough to travel back and forth.

So if i consider these accumulated rest days equivalent to weekly sunday, his MC is not acceptable. But is it fair from the employees perspective ?

This post has been edited by cruel_boy: Aug 27 2014, 01:53 PM
WaCKy-Angel
post Aug 27 2014, 01:52 PM

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Technically, MC are not applicable for rest day.
WaCKy-Angel
post Aug 27 2014, 01:55 PM

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QUOTE(cruel_boy @ Aug 27 2014, 01:52 PM)
as we do not have proper HR department, he only informed his immediate supervisor that he has health issue (50++ y/o). technically, if we're sick and obtained MC on sunday, we're not entitled to additional day off. Unless that MC is obtained during PH or AL. RD are not accounted for replacement.

But in this case, we allow them to at site, keep the sundays, and take 4 or 5 days off end of the month. The reason because they stay far from working site, thus weekly 1 day alone is not enough to travel back and forth.

So if i consider these accumulated rest days equivalent to weekly sunday, his MC is not acceptable. But is it fair from the employees perspective ?
*
Huh MC on P/H also counted?
So he/she will automatically entitled to another A/L ?


It doesnt seems fair, but rest day is a rest day.

Last but not least, rules are dead and humans are not. So its up to HR discretion to accept or not.
VeeJay
post Aug 27 2014, 02:49 PM

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Again, it depends...

Say one applies personal leave (or replacement off) from monday to friday.

But on tuesday he falls sick and obtains 2 days MC.
The employee need to inform his/her supervisor that he is cancelled the leave and is on MC on tuesday and wednesday.
Then he proceeds to apply leave for next working days, say, next monday and tuesday (2 days)
deodorant
post Aug 27 2014, 02:54 PM

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QUOTE(cruel_boy @ Aug 27 2014, 01:30 PM)
Recently, an employee applied for 5 days off. on his 2nd rest day, he obtained 2 days MC and returned to work on 7th day. Can he use mc to offset his rest days, and take longer leave?
The best compromise IMO (and which is what is practiced in my company), the 5 days leave will be changed to 3 days leave + 2 days MC, and 2 days leave 'refunded' to the employee to re-apply in the future. This is documented in my company HR guidebook thing.

For your case, it is grey area because you don't have any policies around this which specifically state what your employee is or isn't alllowed to do.
Mackiddo
post Aug 27 2014, 10:38 PM

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QUOTE(cruel_boy @ Aug 27 2014, 01:30 PM)
Our company operates 24/7, in a very remote place. Due to the nature of ongoing working environment, the workers are allowed to carry forward/accumulate their weekly rest day(sunday) and clear end of the month.

Recently, an employee applied for 5 days off. on his 2nd rest day, he obtained 2 days MC and returned to work on 7th day. Can he use mc to offset his rest days, and take longer leave?

Based on employment act, MC on rest day is not acceptable and will not be entitled to replacement. But would it be still the same for our case, where the rest days are not on sunday but carried forward to a latter date?
*
I'm just curious. Those beginning of the month working days which were supposed to be the employee off days before being carry forward, if he MC, would the employee still be able to get his off day at the end of the month?
If he's still able to get his off days at the end of the month, then those month end off day replacement will not be given if the employee is sick. Just like office worker MC on Sunday.
Mackiddo
post Aug 27 2014, 10:39 PM

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QUOTE(deodorant @ Aug 27 2014, 02:54 PM)
The best compromise IMO (and which is what is practiced in my company), the 5 days leave will be changed to 3 days leave + 2 days MC, and 2 days leave 'refunded' to the employee to re-apply in the future. This is documented in my company HR guidebook thing.

For your case, it is grey area because you don't have any policies around this which specifically state what your employee is or isn't alllowed to do.
*
off day =/= annual leave.
Mackiddo
post Aug 27 2014, 10:43 PM

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QUOTE(cruel_boy @ Aug 27 2014, 01:52 PM)
as we do not have proper HR department, he only informed his immediate supervisor that he has health issue (50++ y/o). technically, if we're sick and obtained MC on sunday, we're not entitled to additional day off. Unless that MC is obtained during PH or AL.

But in this case, we allow them to stay at site, keep the sundays, and take 4 or 5 days off end of the month. The reason because they stay far from working site, thus weekly 1 day alone is not enough to travel back and forth.

So if i consider these accumulated rest days equivalent to weekly sunday, his MC is not acceptable. But is it fair from the employees perspective ?
*
MC obtained during PH is no different from MC obtained on Sunday, no replacement.
Every Co is praising this way, it's pretty fair. If they want to stay near to working site, ask them find another job or shift.

This post has been edited by Mackiddo: Aug 27 2014, 10:44 PM
TScruel_boy
post Aug 28 2014, 09:59 AM

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QUOTE(Mackiddo @ Aug 27 2014, 10:43 PM)
MC obtained during PH is no different from MC obtained on Sunday, no replacement.
Every Co is praising this way, it's pretty fair. If they want to stay near to working site, ask them find another job or shift.
*
On the contrary, Employment Act 1955 Section 60D(1b) states that

QUOTE
Where any of the public holiday or any other day substituted therefor as provided in subsection 1 or 1a falls within the period of which an employee is sick leave or annual leave to which the employee is entitled under this Act, the employer shall grant another day as paid holiday in substitution for such public holiday or the day substituted therefor.


I believe that is because rest day(sunday) are not paid holidays (26 working days in a month, not 30/31), whereas public holiday and annual leave are paid holidays.


Anyhow, in my case i assume it is entirely up to the HR discretion. We do have an HR policy, but these were not clearly defined. But i did confirm with Pejabat Buruh, a weekly rest day is not entitled for replacement if the employee is sick and obtained MC, regardless of which day his rest day falls on as per his working schedule.

Thank you very much for all of your input guys. notworthy.gif smile.gif
Thasmita
post Oct 14 2024, 09:56 AM

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QUOTE(cruel_boy @ Aug 28 2014, 09:59 AM)
On the contrary, Employment Act 1955 Section 60D(1b) states that
I believe that is because rest day(sunday) are not paid holidays (26 working days in a month, not 30/31), whereas public holiday and annual leave are paid holidays.
Anyhow, in my case i assume it is entirely up to the HR discretion. We do have an HR policy, but these were not clearly defined. But i did confirm with Pejabat Buruh, a weekly rest day is not entitled for replacement if the employee is sick and obtained MC, regardless of which day his rest day falls on as per his working schedule.

Thank you very much for all of your input guys.  notworthy.gif  smile.gif
*
If I read 60D(1B) correctly - the employee must first be on sick leave then it so happens that a public holiday as defined in S60D falls within that sick leave period then the employer needs to replace the PH. For example I have dengue and on MC for 4 days- so happens one of the PH is within that 4 days - then my employer is required to replace the PH which fell within the period I was on sick leave. So it has to be - sick leave first - then the PH falls with the sick leave.

That’s the only way to interpret the Act sensibly.

This post has been edited by Thasmita: Oct 14 2024, 09:58 AM
WaCKy-Angel
post Oct 14 2024, 10:02 AM

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QUOTE(Thasmita @ Oct 14 2024, 09:56 AM)
If I read 60D(1B) correctly - the employee must first be on sick leave then it so happens that a public holiday as defined in S60D falls within that sick leave period then the employer needs to replace the PH. For example I have dengue and on MC for 4 days- so happens one of the PH is within that 4 days - then my employer is required to replace the PH which fell within the period I was on sick leave. So it has to be - sick leave first - then the PH falls with the sick leave.

That’s the only way to interpret the Act sensibly.
*
Gosh reviving 10 years old thread.

Anyhow i also recently saw some videos from HR Ministry or sort....they say MC fall on PH should be compensated, however they did not use "must be" so i'm assuming it is not the law.
Stamp
post Oct 14 2024, 11:07 AM

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QUOTE(WaCKy-Angel @ Oct 14 2024, 10:02 AM)
Gosh reviving 10 years old thread.

Anyhow i also recently saw some videos from HR Ministry or sort....they say MC fall on PH should be compensated, however they did not use "must be" so i'm assuming it is not the law.
*
I wonder what happened to cruel_boy since then.

Still taking MCs? 😁

This post has been edited by Stamp: Oct 14 2024, 11:08 AM
Thasmita
post Oct 14 2024, 11:59 AM

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QUOTE(WaCKy-Angel @ Oct 14 2024, 10:02 AM)
Gosh reviving 10 years old thread.

Anyhow i also recently saw some videos from HR Ministry or sort....they say MC fall on PH should be compensated, however they did not use "must be" so i'm assuming it is not the law.
*
I think it’s the other way around - PH fall within a sick leave period - then the PH must be replaced.

They mean two different things


WaCKy-Angel
post Oct 14 2024, 01:53 PM

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QUOTE(Thasmita @ Oct 14 2024, 11:59 AM)
I think it’s the other way around - PH fall within a sick leave period - then the PH must be replaced.

They mean two different things
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Lol different but same same.
Thasmita
post Oct 14 2024, 02:04 PM

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QUOTE(WaCKy-Angel @ Oct 14 2024, 01:53 PM)
Lol different but same same.
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Nope. Beg to disagree.

One must read 60D in its entirety.

Re read a few times and you may understand what I’m saying
WaCKy-Angel
post Oct 14 2024, 02:56 PM

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QUOTE(Thasmita @ Oct 14 2024, 02:04 PM)
Nope. Beg to disagree.

One must read 60D in its entirety.

Re read a few times and you may understand what I’m saying
*
U mean like if today i get MC for 2 days, and tomorrow is PH then company need to compensate?

Else if today is PH and i sick go clinic get MC not entitled compensate?

 

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