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 will dota ever end?, isit forever??

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TSjinkinz
post Aug 21 2006, 07:51 PM, updated 17y ago

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will dota this game last forever???

is been years adi..

This post has been edited by jinkinz: Aug 21 2006, 07:52 PM
Unwritten law
post Aug 21 2006, 07:54 PM

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it's been years for me too
but still going at it!
stevenlee
post Aug 21 2006, 07:58 PM

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nope i get it bored after 3 month...alway the item keep on same untill now and nothing special except few new hero and new item ...at the end it still the same..
renz_boy
post Aug 21 2006, 08:03 PM

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i rarely play liao now..
i started playing 2+ years ago in college... but i think if got other new maps that better than dotA. ppl will say bye2 to dotA.

same case like before i played dotA, i did play 3c (DDAY).. that time vv popular too.. but since dotA came out.. we all say bye-bye to 3C

peace~~
mclelun
post Aug 21 2006, 08:13 PM

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I played the old skool dota in RoC. tongue.gif
SUSDiligent Sloth
post Aug 21 2006, 10:12 PM

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Hell yeah~ D-Day... Can't forget the hours I spent skipping class just so we could have another round of 3c biggrin.gif
shinobikit
post Aug 21 2006, 10:14 PM

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Dota.... addictive... can last abit longer... now world widely playing le..
winternight
post Aug 22 2006, 03:22 AM

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Dota wont boring if u play a team game ( no ar or pub game ) and now come out with the AP draft match... challenge part is here right now.. lol... every single hero you choose, totally different from the last game you play... unless u luckily draft back the same hero...
Hell Fire
post Aug 22 2006, 07:00 AM

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You got the point, just like cs :S althought there is not many ppl playing in malaysia.
Jcsy
post Aug 22 2006, 01:19 PM

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it will last long but not forever

CS also eventualy died and CS is larger than dota
CS didnt take 2 years to be famous

i still can remember playing 3corr everyday last time then moved to dothar

now i quit liao.. play too much sick of it
now im back to CS 1.6 and CS:S smile.gif
Goblinsk8er
post Aug 22 2006, 02:25 PM

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It will last quite long maybe another 1.5 years.
If they are not updating the map with new heroes and items, everyone will get bored.
Heck, im getting a lil bit sick of ppl getting sange&yasha already.
Every single game, i mean EVERY single freaking game everyone is buying sange and yasha.
achok
post Aug 22 2006, 03:46 PM

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coz S&Y benefit the STR & AGI heros....
knumskul
post Aug 22 2006, 09:37 PM

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dota will eventually die off. its not big enough to stay popular worldwide.

compare it with the likes of warcraft, quake, CS, starcraft.
J-Slade
post Aug 22 2006, 09:43 PM

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its been lasting me for abt 4 years now... i really wonder if it'll last any longer... been playin dota even b4 dota allstars.. geez... i still enjoy it.. but thing is, cant play everyday la... sure will sien wan
coyouth
post Aug 23 2006, 08:53 AM

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QUOTE(jinkinz @ Aug 21 2006, 07:51 PM)
will dota this game last  forever???

is been years adi..
*
My friend asked me a question similar to yours. He said, "when you become an adult, will you still be playing dota?". Hmm... I don't really know why he asked me that in the first place but I just told him, "Maybe". Anyway, I used to play every day but studies and assignments in college have been keeping me busy and if I'm fortunate, I could cram in 1 game in that week. drool.gif
Spiv
post Aug 23 2006, 08:55 AM

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you will get over dota once blizzard start making new game. It is the same like how we used to play starcraft.
hihihehe
post Aug 23 2006, 08:57 AM

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dota will die at the future de.just like cs.last time cs was so popular but now not many ppl play liao
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post Aug 23 2006, 09:01 AM

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QUOTE(coyouth @ Aug 23 2006, 08:53 AM)
My friend asked me a question similar to yours. He said, "when you become an adult, will you still be playing dota?".  Hmm... I don't really know why he asked me that in the first place but I just told him, "Maybe".  Anyway, I used to play every day but studies and assignments in college have been keeping me busy and if I'm fortunate, I could cram in 1 game in that week. drool.gif
*
keh keh !!!!

after this wcg, if lose at 1st match....i will stop!!! rclxms.gif or if win maybe will keep playing until my 3rd son!!! sweat.gif

Huargh....bored..bored..dam sick.

Fav game now: o2jam,cs 1.6(Formula 1 server)
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post Aug 23 2006, 10:00 AM

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QUOTE(knumskul @ Aug 22 2006, 09:37 PM)
dota will eventually die off. its not big enough to stay popular worldwide.

compare it with the likes of warcraft, quake, CS, starcraft.
*
I think its a no-brainer to assume that dota is pretty unknown globally.

That being said, don't dismiss it just because its a mod (That's how CS started)

For Malaysians, its basically the hive mentality at work. Dota is the "in" thing now and until something else comes to dethrone it, expect it to hang around since no one really tries anything new unless its got "Blizzard" attached to it.

Possible ways dota could be usurped from its throne:
1) They stop updating it. Just look at the number of 5.84c players now
2) Some other new game that is teambased, mouse driven and allows for solo PWNAGE!!! moments comes along.

Suet
post Aug 23 2006, 12:50 PM

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DotA will still be around unless people collectively decide to abandon it. Personal experience: Regular DotA kakis are now into Monster Hunter Freedom on the PSP, pft, but I'm still lovin' DotA so I'm searching for new team players now. smile.gif

It's like having to date all over again haha.
JunkeR
post Aug 23 2006, 01:41 PM

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dota will be forgotten oni when all people bored to play lor..but there's always got a new people starting to play dota sweat.gif
mangoman
post Aug 24 2006, 01:01 PM

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Dota will end when the human beings do not exist anymore. LOL.
apis
post Aug 24 2006, 01:06 PM

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countern strike is an old game but still i saw got quite of no ppl playing it..last week i enter cs tournemant at my place...,i also play cs n DOTA..
szeping
post Aug 24 2006, 06:41 PM

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Is StarCraft heading to an end now? I guess there are still many people playing it... though there is new WarCraft.

DotA is a custom game, there might be people still playing it few years later after the map developer stop developing it.

But I agree that, it has more combo that a team can commit/counter in a clan match.
redeye84
post Aug 24 2006, 09:05 PM

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DOTA is gonna last until when a new game arise to replace it.
coyouth
post Aug 26 2006, 08:21 AM

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QUOTE(szeping @ Aug 24 2006, 06:41 PM)
Is StarCraft heading to an end now? I guess there are still many people playing it... though there is new WarCraft.

*
I don't think many people are playing starcraft. Even with new expansions to starcraft, more people are playing other games. Competition is so tough as blizzard have many other games under them, what more when there are so many more out there by other makers.
szeping
post Aug 26 2006, 11:38 AM

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QUOTE(coyouth @ Aug 26 2006, 08:21 AM)
I don't think many people are playing starcraft. Even with new expansions to starcraft, more people are playing other games. Competition is so tough as blizzard have many other games under them, what more when there are so many more out there by other makers.
*
Yeah, I mean... there are still many Koreans playing it. Of course, if a game only involves 2 players, it might get obsoleted sooner than multi players game.

For me (personal opinion), CS is a fast game, you know the result for one round within minutes. But for DotA, sometimes it's quite tiring to play an hour long game. But another team might change the tide with late game heroes. That's the reason I like DotA more... and, you get to try many different heroes combo (of course, different strategies as well) as compared to CS's weapons.

Personal thought... rclxub.gif
sets84
post Aug 26 2006, 11:26 PM

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If you see the TV Gaming Programs on Starcraft at Korea and their Starcraft Leagues, you would pull back those words. Most Koreans still consider Starcraft as the best strategy game for a gamer of top standards.
greatgreedyguts
post Aug 26 2006, 11:27 PM

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oh, i am SURE it will end 1 day

All because my research facility discovered ANTI-MATTER, which i will BLOW up the world with. So much for DotA...

This post has been edited by greatgreedyguts: Aug 26 2006, 11:31 PM
knumskul
post Aug 28 2006, 10:45 PM

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QUOTE(H@H@ @ Aug 23 2006, 10:00 AM)
I think its a no-brainer to assume that dota is pretty unknown globally.

That being said, don't dismiss it just because its a mod (That's how CS started)

For Malaysians, its basically the hive mentality at work. Dota is the "in" thing now and until something else comes to dethrone it, expect it to hang around since no one really tries anything new unless its got "Blizzard" attached to it.

Possible ways dota could be usurped from its throne:
1) They stop updating it. Just look at the number of 5.84c players now
2) Some other new game that is teambased, mouse driven and allows for solo PWNAGE!!! moments comes along.
*
so very true. for some reason, the average CC kaki don't like to play team based game. they only play team based game where you don't have to rely on your team to win.
kiew
post Aug 28 2006, 10:53 PM

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hmm, it will only end when when someone banned it...haha...since mini game also still have people playing, how can any game will have an end??
haylui
post Aug 29 2006, 11:00 AM

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everything on this world has their own time..... just don't think so much when it is still popular. Sooner or later there will have another game to replace it.
revivar
post Aug 29 2006, 12:25 PM

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QUOTE(knumskul @ Aug 28 2006, 10:45 PM)
so very true. for some reason, the average CC kaki don't like to play team based game. they only play team based game where you don't have to rely on your team to win.
*
Kinda tough, small details really run along the lifetime of dota in malaysia. Take the private sponsored pelayan biru for example. That itself created a huge difference in maintaining dota's fan base nationwide. Almost all CC has pelayan biru client installed. take the infamous inferno and warnet at ss15 for example where previously it was swamped by cs player. nowadays it is slowly overpowered. And then CC like Kaos and Zionnet comes along, where they are pretty much dedicated to dota alone.

I say, unless there's a new game (that has fairly low requirement, not everyone's PC can support high end games) that comes along and get featured in some tournament with big prize money, not much other RTS can be compared to DOTA ftm.

games like CS are really really good at maintaining it's fan base. BUT, to play CS multiplayer online, you need original CD-Key T_T. And online games like GunZ and DOA can never really compared up to CS. FEAR requirement too high.

to conclude, dota is here to stay for at least.... 2 years more. tongue.gif
coyouth
post Aug 29 2006, 08:52 PM

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QUOTE(sets84 @ Aug 26 2006, 11:26 PM)
If you see the TV Gaming Programs on Starcraft at Korea and their Starcraft Leagues, you would pull back those words. Most Koreans still consider Starcraft as the best strategy game for a gamer of top standards.
*
Like you said, Koreans, NOT the world. What are the odds for Koreans against the world population?

This post has been edited by coyouth: Aug 29 2006, 08:53 PM
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post Aug 30 2006, 05:19 PM

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dota rules..no question bout it..as long as new heroes and items are added and maps are updated ..
selenium
post Sep 1 2006, 02:30 PM

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C.S rocks........ DotA ? whats that? can eat one ker~?
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post Sep 1 2006, 06:31 PM

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QUOTE(revivar @ Aug 29 2006, 12:25 PM)

games like CS are really really good at maintaining it's fan base. BUT, to play CS multiplayer online, you need original CD-Key T_T. And online games like GunZ and DOA can never really compared up to CS. FEAR requirement too high.

to conclude, dota is here to stay for at least.... 2 years more.  tongue.gif
*
Actually, during its heyday, CS relied pretty much solely on LAN gamers in cybercafes... Nobody really played online as it was usually laggy (Lagging in an FPS is monumentally more annoying than lagging in an RTS) and its more fun in a cafe ("How do you like me now, you camping sonuvab****!!!!")

Even now, in cafes that DO have original CS, ppl mostly play on LAN.
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post Sep 1 2006, 10:23 PM

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QUOTE(selenium @ Sep 1 2006, 02:30 PM)
C.S rocks........ DotA ? whats that? can eat one ker~?
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Dont come here and read all the post and post this useless comment...
revivar
post Sep 3 2006, 02:22 PM

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QUOTE(H@H@ @ Sep 1 2006, 06:31 PM)
Actually, during its heyday, CS relied pretty much solely on LAN gamers in cybercafes... Nobody really played online as it was usually laggy (Lagging in an FPS is monumentally more annoying than lagging in an RTS) and its more fun in a cafe ("How do you like me now, you camping sonuvab****!!!!")

Even now, in cafes that DO have original CS, ppl mostly play on LAN.
*
haha totally agree. i wasted half of my secondary school's life in CC, skipping half the classes and play halflife, CS, starcraft, diablo2, neopets (yesh i used to grab that omelette everyday). the thing is, everywhere else people rarely play in cc anymore. correct me if i'm wrong, but most of my friends who used to play cs says it's better to play on steam.

no more heyday for CS after FMJ disband. cry.gif eDTs -> dota enet. nbtd -> hilang ntah kemana. sedih...
kyan :)
post Sep 25 2006, 12:44 PM

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dun worry my place the cc will keep producing newbie's non stop so it will not face extinction
Vervain
post Sep 29 2006, 02:36 AM

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i think dota will end quite soon la. the expected replacement should be notd kua. not sure abt the future. but if its in WCG, then should be there for a long time.
Fabrication
post Sep 29 2006, 02:41 AM

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it won't
just like that old old game, starcraft, a lot ppl keep playing on it... even in WCG..
zero
post Sep 30 2006, 05:43 PM

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dota will not end,only their old players.now got kids in standard 4-5 already playing.the chain will continue till dunno when.
greatgreedyguts
post Oct 1 2006, 06:37 PM

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QUOTE(kiew @ Aug 28 2006, 10:53 PM)
hmm, it will only end when when someone banned it...haha...since mini game also still have people playing, how can any game will have an end??
*
Everything will end if everyone is getting bored on it. But mini-games are different for every maps, so mini-game may not end.

This post has been edited by greatgreedyguts: Oct 1 2006, 06:38 PM
siemens
post Oct 1 2006, 08:36 PM

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QUOTE(Vervain @ Sep 29 2006, 02:36 AM)
i think dota will end quite soon la. the expected replacement should be notd kua. not sure abt the future. but if its in WCG, then should be there for a long time.
*
QUOTE(greatgreedyguts @ Oct 1 2006, 06:37 PM)
Everything will end if everyone is getting bored on it. But mini-games are different for every maps, so mini-game may not end.
*
Disagree with you people....

Dota will have new versions and it will be nicer


QUOTE(Fabrication @ Sep 29 2006, 02:41 AM)
it won't
just like that old old game, starcraft, a lot ppl keep playing on it... even in WCG..
*
haha
WCG

lol


QUOTE(zero @ Sep 30 2006, 05:43 PM)
dota will not end,only their old players.now got kids in standard 4-5 already playing.the chain will continue till dunno when.
*
yalor

bro giv smaller bro ply,sister giv small sis

so good lor like tht


orangysb
post Oct 1 2006, 11:53 PM

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"Everything that has a beginning has an end..." Matrix

so ya, simply put, it will
redken
post Oct 1 2006, 11:56 PM

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Currently i have one gripe, cant they make the gameplay a little shorter. It;s just too time consuming. Heck, a quick game of FT can easily finish way faster than dota.
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post Oct 2 2006, 12:04 AM

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yeah....
even i still cant free from these addiction after few month dont touch warcraft....
Hevrn
post Oct 2 2006, 12:22 AM

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till sumone or sum major company comes up wit a lan game as addictive as this...it'll live
yuyuyu
post Oct 2 2006, 04:04 PM

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will not end so fast la. it have many times longer live than CS due to having regular update

it will ends when there is something bigger than it. which i cant imagine -.-
alex6540
post Oct 5 2006, 08:11 PM

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this game will never end .. trust me .. even u marry and got a son .. ur son will continue ur journey to Gangbang people ..
Example:Counterstrike
lols
doomvein
post Oct 7 2006, 04:10 PM

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Just dont play DOTA like no tomorrow ..

then you will never be bored..

...I also bored when everyday playing..

but after i play one day per weeks..

i never be bored..


Renegadekid
post Oct 7 2006, 11:59 PM

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QUOTE(Vervain @ Sep 29 2006, 02:36 AM)
i think dota will end quite soon la. the expected replacement should be notd kua. not sure abt the future. but if its in WCG, then should be there for a long time.
*
i dont think replacement will be notd. notd not ppl fight with other ppl. Its a survival type of game. Dota still has a long long way 2 go
bleachzrockz
post Oct 8 2006, 12:21 AM

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i can be quite sure it wun end anytime soon...based on my experience in flying spaghetti monster..there are so many newbies/noobs produced everyday with so many heroes to try...it will take them at least 1 year+ to master all the skills,by that time there will be more newbies produced...the cycle goes on....
TSjinkinz
post Dec 9 2008, 02:35 AM

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teamwork game hardly vanish in a sudden


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post Dec 9 2008, 02:47 AM

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post Dec 21 2008, 10:01 AM

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i think it will end...but not so fast!!!i play it since v5.84 untill now...sometime feel boring...
SUSFlizzardo
post Dec 21 2008, 10:13 AM

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it ends tonight.
xsan
post Dec 22 2008, 03:08 AM

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dota will end when Diablo III released brows.gif
just playin Dota cuz all my online game has reached max lvl..

apis
post Dec 22 2008, 06:46 PM

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Well,it will end coz there always a better game.
Cheesenium
post Dec 22 2008, 06:49 PM

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NEVER!!!
uzary
post Dec 25 2008, 12:00 AM

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its hard to say, even starcraft is played until today.. for me, dota has quite a long lifespan in gaming industry..and best yet, its is created by fan..the thing is that, blizzard always come up wit a great game, last damn long.. it even let us(fan) to customized their game too.. hopfuly starcraft 2 also would archived the same glory like his brother...who knows after dat they will be dots..defense of the star?? hehehehe tongue.gif
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post Jan 17 2009, 01:35 AM

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There's not a single chance when u enter a cc there's not even a dota player in it..
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post Jan 20 2009, 03:03 PM

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QUOTE(xsan @ Dec 22 2008, 03:08 AM)
dota will end when Diablo III released brows.gif
just playin Dota cuz all my online game has reached max lvl..
*
Later IceFrog presents Dota in DiabloIII. tongue.gif
CyberTroop
post Jan 20 2009, 03:11 PM

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Holy shit, 3 years since the start of this thread...
billneedme
post Jan 21 2009, 12:10 PM

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QUOTE(jinkinz @ Aug 21 2006, 07:51 PM)
will dota this game last  forever???

is been years adi..
*
dota wont end .. many people still playing it .. thumbup.gif
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post Jan 21 2009, 12:42 PM

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DotA will last forever~~
viper88
post Jan 21 2009, 04:02 PM

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Yup.. i agree.. Dota game will alwys be there unless we the player quit playing it.
I also feel this Dota game is good for friends get together and have fun killing each others. laugh.gif

Too bad alot of my friend already retired from Dota.. only me still playing once a while.

QUOTE(WallaceZai @ Jan 21 2009, 12:42 PM)
DotA will last forever~~
*
r312
post Jan 21 2009, 05:47 PM

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the game will end but not now maby another 3 years when more games comes out cous making a nise takes years just like DOTA anyway i still like dota and all my friend like it 2
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post Jan 21 2009, 11:38 PM

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i am afraid that dota is ending soon

for every beginning there is an end....

dota will fall and STARCRAFT:2:DOTA 2 will rise.

but i could be mistaken ... perhaps it would be demigod or the other game guinsoo is working on
Golden
post Jan 22 2009, 12:41 AM

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QUOTE(Flizzardo @ Jan 21 2009, 11:38 PM)
i am afraid that dota is ending soon

for every beginning there is an end....

dota will fall and STARCRAFT:2:DOTA 2 will rise.

but i could be mistaken ... perhaps it would be demigod or the other game guinsoo is working on
*
If i have money and all the abilities, i would like to create my own game called DotA II or DotA 2.

I am sick of so many noobs in DotA nowadays...

and Blizzard just don't care about this game anymore... sad.gif




This post has been edited by Golden: Jan 22 2009, 12:41 AM
SUSFlizzardo
post Jan 22 2009, 10:34 AM

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QUOTE(Golden @ Jan 22 2009, 12:41 AM)
If i have money and all the abilities, i would like to create my own game called DotA II or DotA 2.

I am sick of so many noobs in DotA nowadays...

and Blizzard just don't care about this game anymore... sad.gif
*
actually i think every 1 DOTA player donate 1$us.. should be enough to develop a kickass DOTA 2...
deevon
post Jan 22 2009, 10:59 AM

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QUOTE(Golden @ Jan 22 2009, 12:41 AM)
and Blizzard just don't care about this game anymore... sad.gif
*
why would blizard bother about it btw hmm.gif

flizarddo : DOTA 2 ftw laugh.gif laugh.gif

SUSdharwin
post Jan 23 2009, 01:51 AM

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dota is dieing..

maybe in pub level there is alot

but i think in competitive level..everybody got fedup in thsi shit game where every team keep change teammate/team everytime they lose a game or a competititon match...hmhp..thats what i think from my point of view there is other games or other stuff to be done besides dota.juz a wasting time game.
adrixxx
post Mar 19 2009, 07:03 AM

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lol... sound like you are the victim...


SOS

This post has been edited by adrixxx: Mar 19 2009, 07:07 AM
St.Daring
post Mar 19 2009, 02:03 PM

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Dota wont end...

every time my gf period, i will say to her 'First Blood'...
Cuteapa
post Mar 21 2009, 10:27 PM

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I think dota will never end . If the people create dota die it sure end .......
verdict
post Apr 5 2009, 03:33 AM

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QUOTE(Cuteapa @ Mar 21 2009, 11:27 PM)
I think dota will never end . If the people create dota die it sure end .......
*

Nope...never...even the creator of this game die..there is always a new young one and a new breed....

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

This post has been edited by verdict: Apr 5 2009, 03:33 AM
TSjinkinz
post Apr 6 2009, 04:29 AM

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Aug 21 2006, 07:51 PM

even this thread never end..

so i highly doubt tat game will ever end
KCS*Band
post Apr 7 2009, 12:33 PM

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get a life dude
diehard1979
post Apr 17 2009, 06:51 PM

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last time before dota, in CC, CS1.5 is the longest life mod. Now is dota.
ChinHong86
post Apr 17 2009, 08:26 PM

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nothing will last forever,
dota will either end or evolved to a newer lvl
like last time they say 5.84c will never end
but wat happened?
btw...
more than half yr no touch dota d
radkliler
post Apr 17 2009, 08:28 PM

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DotA is dying slowly due to L4D...

No joke...just go into any CC and you'll see pirated L4D running on half the computers in that CC.

How do I know its pirated you say? Well....there is no Steam Client...thats how I know
im-orang3
post Apr 20 2009, 03:07 AM

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Really?
But Perak cc i think never end wif Dota 10 cc each cc 100 pc almost 90% is dota ....
Kelv
post Apr 20 2009, 11:47 AM

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Agree with ChinHoong, nothing last forever.
Thanks to dotards, I'll only play L4D if I go CC.
But I still play Dota with my friends only, private game.
cooper88
post Apr 20 2009, 06:13 PM

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never bored playing dota...
play dota for 2 years and never get bored cause everyday play with diff people and diff game style..
i think this game last forever..huhuhu..

vassili
post Apr 20 2009, 06:18 PM

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I don't think so DOTA is still running in FTZ and most of the CCs.Maybe it'll end but not that fast.
aaronlim18
post Apr 20 2009, 06:20 PM

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dota will end one day, just dunno which day will be the ending
nikeshock
post Apr 20 2009, 06:23 PM

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i quit few months ago because its getting boring.
TSjinkinz
post Apr 20 2009, 10:39 PM

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end very long time later, as ppl cant get bored with teamwork game
Juggerballz
post Apr 22 2009, 07:28 PM

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it will end de la, maybe in the future they invent left dota dead =(
hizperion
post Apr 26 2009, 08:18 PM

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but dota is the best mmorpg ever created by blizzard =(

http://www.cybervaldez.com/starcraft-2-dot...stars-map/2009/

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

aamry
post Apr 27 2009, 05:26 PM

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QUOTE(jinkinz @ Aug 21 2006, 07:51 PM)
will dota this game last  forever???

is been years adi..
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cant la bro if still dont have the nice game as dota..
and low cost and easy to install
TSjinkinz
post Jul 13 2009, 05:40 AM

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the end , i stop tat game biggrin.gif
windboy
post Jul 15 2009, 11:27 AM

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dota will end if sc2 and d3 released smile.gif
mclelun
post Jul 19 2009, 10:46 AM

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QUOTE(hizperion @ Apr 26 2009, 08:18 PM)
but dota is the best mmorpg ever created by blizzard =(

but dota is not a mmorpg and is not created by blizzard.

salimbest83
post Jul 21 2009, 09:03 AM

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STILL PLAYING....hehe..
but not everyday la..
too many good game to play these day..
frags
post Sep 11 2009, 07:30 PM

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Please refer to this rule to figure out why your post was deleted:

QUOTE
1. Discussion of private servers are strictly not allowed. Do not start threads asking about the private server you're playing on.
2. Warez:- Asking for help on how to operate pirated copies of the game, patching of pirated copies are not allowed.
3. Emulating online enviroments through programs or server emulators fall under the first rule.

Offending thread/post will be deleted and user warned with no exception


 

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