my friend is currently worried about taking long leave for a family reunion and vacation in europe for 2 weeks. can the superior of his account department reject his leave if he gives a valid reason?

he said the superior always never foresee staffs going on vacations and never have a plan when this happen. I been wondering if the superior who has a higher pay check than his subordinate, he should have some contingency plan and back up or else why is he in this higher position in the first place.

I just told my friend to apply and if reject then proceed with unpaid leave . They can't stop someone for taking leave for attending to family matters. Just want to know if the employee had commit any wrong in the company in terms of legality?

As the leave is going to be for 2 weeks, your friend should inform his superior early. There should be sufficient time given for planning a handover process for the temporary delegation of your friend's tasks

To be fairly honest, why not? If the company is currently understaffed/work performance not up to par/the person is handling most of the stuff in a major project and etc etc, an employer has the right not to give you the holiday that you requested.

I would agree with @klsmurf on the handling over part, if I am taking over a long leave, I used to take 2 weeks or more (too many days accumulated), I'd inform earlier as in a month or more so that they know about it.

Also, get a reliable person to cover for me when I am off. Let they know where the important docs are and stuff like that.

Still, if the company uses email a lot, ask you friend to get ready to reply to emails on-the-go as unexpected events might happen during the holidays.

do a proper planning there is no reason to reject the leave

Why should a superior who has a higher pay check have some contingency plan?

yes, you submit leave form for approval, not to notify
unpaid leave will still need approval too, what they need is people to work, not some tiny saving from the unpaid leave
it is a common mistake that peoples thought if i take unpaid leave, then it is okay

long leave should inform earlier and give appropriate time to plan and handover on hand/future job, if it is done properly i dont see any reason to reject it

Holiday is not "family matters."
Leave is entirely 100% up to management approval. The supervisor / manager can reject any leave application and doesn't even need to give excuse. You giving your friend this kind of advise is only going to get him/her in trouble

Can. My company sometimes cancel my leave after been approved 2 month ago.

This post has been edited by athrun300: Jul 9 2014, 12:24 PM

His taking his leave in November.

Thats what they call the hybrid leadership. You dont expect human to live forever, what if he is gone or die tomorrow. And after all, if he took such a long leave, it a blessing for the company to figure out what they got to do and also prepare in the worst case scenario just like germans and japan can rebuilt their city back after war or disaster. Dont you know anything abou this at atll??

Any leave is up to management. They can approve or reject. Taking unpaid leave due to rejection will only incur a bad performance review which will affect bonus or promotion. As long you're not the shareholder or director, better listen to the bosses. They hold your future. If don't agree, become your own boss.

Nope, he said it open up his perspective a bit.. He said if the manager cant prepare to lose him for 2 weeks, he expected the manager dont truly understand the word of Family and he wont expect his supervisor to value his work given and even makes effort to be part of the team.

Nope. Some of my friends got the leave so easily and they worked in some of the best companies.

MNC different ok. Not everyone can work there. Some have stick with Chinaman companies for years b4 moving up.

I guess ts friends is a well to do person. family vacation is an important matter??? as important as if there is a family funeral??? somehow vacation overseas lagikk, in europe??? i don't understand why is so important in family vacation unless tt ask his/her friend to tell what actually the real reason.

somehow, i feel vacation punya reason x berapa kuat. lainlah kalau family sakit ker, kematian ker, anything in the matters of life and death..mungkin boleh diconsider kan.

better kawan ts berhenti jer la. I mean since it doesn't matter kalau dia not working there.

This post has been edited by abdz: Jul 9 2014, 12:44 PM

okay! maybe i should b more specific. okay, it's a sdn bhd company. consider a big sdn bhd company with few millions of assets but never go into blue chip listing.

yes , a bit old skool he said.

how bout your company? will they allow you to go away for 2 weeks ? some MNC companies encourage staffs to go unpaid or even take leaves if they find the person is disruptive or not performing, a holiday is a way for them to eject and get back to the ground again.

Usually these long leave would be discussed with the approver and agreed upon in advance. In team setting this may be even during start of financial year, and in regular discussions throughout the year.

For account base jobs, logically you'd take leave based on your work cycle. Eg closing by 10th then 11-25 would be your two weeks off. Anything in between someone wold need to cover. Again, as per discussion with team.

You asked whether it is "OK" for you/your friend to just go ahead and take emergency leave if your superior doesn't approve it. The issue here is your superior is perfectly within his rights not to approve any leave application for any reason whatsoever. You/your friend insisting that "family holiday" is a valid reason to then say screw you supervisor I don't give a f*ck what you think is crazy talk.

Whether your friend's superior is capable or understanding or incompetent or an ******* is a separate discussion entirely.

1. MNC or big companies are the same in that context.

2. Superiors dont need contingency plans for these. It is your responsibility if you are taking a long leave to inform early so that the superior can plan ahead. And that is definitely not a blessing. (If you talking about this contingency plan, then did you ask your friend whether he had made a contingent plan of taking up some of his boss roles too in case his boss suddenly die the next day?) - Blessing for your friend too...

Anyway back to the topic, since now is July, he applying in November. Then just ask him to inform the superior and apply now. End of story.

it's the job of the boss to recruit and provide secondary assistance or any part time workers . A boss should have this contingency plan or else why is he up there milking few thousand dollars ? this is the first time i heard leadership don't need to have Plan B or work out a contingency plan for staff absence. Is it for the sake of saying something that didn't cross your mind at all.

some companies do recruit apprentice or new recruits . A constant training and so on. anyway, the subject is too general, we may be arguing about MNC vs countryman management here. Maybe u were right in some companies and i may be wrong. Some companies don't thought of funding a research dept so i believe it's a case of not going to happen soon in making a leap. And since his taking leaves in nov, i don't see any problem why his superior should reject his application since most employees goes on holiday in Dec. I told him that's your advantage to this application and it shouldn't be a problem .

Yours is purely theoretical off the books. In reality, every business will employ cost cutting measures. If you talking about these plans of yours, you are talking about costs. I have never encountered any business irrespective of size who actually does such contingency plans of yours just so you can go on a long vacation.

Sure, they employ secondary assistance for the particular employer but that is because it is only due to heavy workload not your kind of contingency plans.

When you started this topic, you asked two things:
1) Will 2weeks of leave be rejected with a valid reason by the superior? [No indication of timing]
2) Legality issue

Please be mindful that you only mentioned in later posts that he was applying in November. Now is still early July. Nobody would say that there is a problem if you had mentioned these information first. You can possibly misled forumers to think it was a last minute leave application considering you are afraid it is rejected.

Hence, I had mentioned that there shouldn't be a problem in my aforementioned post but you need to take into account the size of the company which you had not made any indication.

Small companies may still reject if you're the only guy in the accounting department. It is different with bigger companies as bigger companies has more than one staff and they would reshuffle temporarily. Those bigger companies would reshuffle only if its funeral or maternity cases only. And bigger companies only approve (in your case) the vacation leave if it is during the off peak period and not during closing.

Legality issue, there's no indication of the size of the company but irrespective of it, that friend of yours would know the HR policy of applying long leave (e.g. In advance of how many days/months for applying long leave)

Ultimately, just apply for the long vacation, if rejected then just resign if that is how you feel. Irrespective where you go, you need to know your place. You are an employee not an employer.

You seem so defensive that I would have thought it was you and not your friend instead.

Cheers.

well explained.
the same thing i told my friend about this. If his supervisor still rejected his early application than he should find new work place instead. no point staying.

labor law did not say you can't take 2 weeks or 1 month leaves. you can apply your leave a week before. But then, when you come back to work there is another person sitting on your place jor.

Ur friend has to inform early to the boss. No issue for that.

Usually such long leave is best to be months beforehand. So long if her friend follow the company's policy when applying leave and any other related company's policy or the employment contract.

The company can bring in a new person but highly doubt they would if she followed the company's protocols. They will terminate (depending on contract, you need to pay compensation to the company) her friend first and then employ a new one.

However, it wont be ideal because the friend can sue for compensation as you had followed the policy and contract. It will take some time because most likely the company will debate in the tribunal that her friend did not report for work or without notice going on leave. As her friend would most likely keep evidences of her application, her friend would most likely receive compensation.

The company would most likely keep her friend on the job but her friend would suffer maybe in terms of incentives (bonus, salary increment, etc).

In all companies (that I know of), annual leave is an entitlement that you accrue over time as you work.

However, the taking of that annual leave is at the discretion of the company. Hence if the company thinks that it's not convenient for you to go on leave, you can't. It's as simple as that, legally. And that principle applies for 'forced leave' as well, where the company can compel employees to take annual leave eg. when the production line is shut down for maintenance, the company want to shut down for a full week during Raya or CNY but there's not enough public holidays etc.

Therefore, if a company rejects ALL of your annual leave applications during the ENTIRE year, it is obligated to offer you a choice at the end of the year (assuming you have 10 days annual leave per annum):

(a) You will go on annual leave during the last 10 working days of the year, OR

(b) You will be paid an extra 10 working days in addition to your December payroll.

In practice however, I've never seen any company reject ALL leave applications of ALL employees. In my experience, the company will normally not reject leave applications of 1, 2 or 3 days - PROVIDED that the leave is not taken during PEAK periods (for example, month end closing if you're in accounting).

For long leave like a full working week or more, it really needs to be a negotiation between the employee and the company. The employee needs to apply early in order to give the company time to plan for his absence. And the company wants to keep the employee happy by allowing him to take his leave entitlement at a meaningful time... like a holiday trip overseas. But both have to compromise. The employee needs to plan and confirm early, and the employer needs to re-assign some work to other employees or temp staff, or re-schedule the deadlines a week later until the employee returns.

In my company, our headcount is quite tight. When we go on leave, we have no backups. We don't throw all our work to our boss and assume he'll figure things out. So it's basically a compromise. We get to go on our one week or two week long holidays, but have to compromise, for example, by logging in one or two mornings/evenings per week to clear the really urgent stuff, and when we return to office, put in some OT (Own Time) the next few nights to clear the remaining backlog. Or do what I do... take one or two Fridays a month to get long weekends (easy to clear a Friday backlog the next Monday) and then clear the remainder of my leave during the Christmas and New Year period when most people in US and Europe go on leave and the entire MNC goes into unofficial hibernation.

This post has been edited by seantang: Jul 9 2014, 04:57 PM

Try to plan vacation leave in advance. Normally i'll submit leave in Dec for next year plan vacation leave, normally taken in a block ( >5 days). So my boss know in advance when I'm going on leave and can easily work out an alternative if he/she not too comfortable with that date. It's easier to plan for holiday this way.

But why should he get an extra headcount and incur cost so that your friend can take leave? If he is aligned to the company's goal to save cost why should he? You mean you expect the superior to take over his job ... LOL.
Please la are you a freshie? First time in the real world. Your friend should have been smart enough to expect this from a small company especially accounting/auditing during the peak period.
Why isn't your friend preparing for the worst case scenario of the leave being rejected and why isn't your friend working in a better place? Dont you know anything about this at atll??

This post has been edited by Drian: Jul 9 2014, 10:39 PM

if u own business, would you hire redundant staffs just to make the life of our existing staffs easier? will you hire a few extra people 'just in case some of your staffs wants to take longer leaves'?

of course not. a business wants to minimize cost and maximize profit - always been and always will

Hey please lah... read what i have wrote in other statement before lah. don't be a jack ass . Big , small company doesnt make the culture any same or different. your arguement is flaw. Do you mean if Big means everything is perfect and have the same culture? there were some company in sdn bhd have 15 company cars and 20 lorries . Is that big for you?
or it's too small for u. no logic at all.

This post has been edited by missysleepy: Jul 10 2014, 08:32 AM

yes i will, u wanna think like old skool. go ahead.
im closing this thread bcos too many jack ass just wanted to say something for the sake of it.

This post has been edited by missysleepy: Jul 10 2014, 08:51 AM

i'd like to see u go 'new school' open up a company and hire 3 people for 1 person's work.

good luck

Your other statement? Like this:-



Seriously don't be a smart ass.
Also company cultures differ whether it's a fortune 500 company , MNC or a small local company. Like it or not, it does differ. Even within MNCs, there are differences in culture.

Go ahead, have the mindset that bosses should hire redundant workers so that staff can take leave. Lets see how many companies buy your idea. LOL.

Also it also shows that your friend (or you for that matter, judging by the way you react) have not been proactively building relationship and trust with the superiors. It also shows that your friend have not shown any plan on how to get the things done when he's gone.

This post has been edited by Drian: Jul 10 2014, 10:20 AM

this is not even about redundant worker , because your perception was so weak and you starts to think this way, u know what, basically you are talking about your own self or inner part of yourself. And the denial kept you so long that you starts to see others behave like you .

my friend is new to work and im giving him the support all i can just like providing the homeless support. As for you,if you run a company , your staff turnover will be high and you will just a small company all the time because of your marginalised perception all the time.

Go and read biography of Formula 1 drivers before you talk about business management with me.

in case u never gone outside of this country, go visit Jakarta and see how many workers working in one dept .