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Advice Wanted [WTA] Proposal Ring & Wedding Bands, Please advice me!! Need Help!!

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kambingkoh
post Mar 25 2021, 03:52 PM

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QUOTE(nles @ Mar 25 2021, 03:24 PM)
Planning to propose end of the year so still have some time to research and learn. If I go down the Jannpaul path, I will fly to singapore most likely, need to deal with something there too. That is if the border opens. How's your decagon experience, waiting for your article  biggrin.gif
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What can I say? Decagon is a whole new breed of beast. Fascinating! Perhaps I see too much 57 facets round brilliant. Decagon is 111 facets, so it will definitely scintillates a lot.

Long time ago some forumer saw another high facet stones which is Hemera from Poh Kong, and like it a lot too. I don't know how it compares to Decagon, but Decagon follows the same strict standard as JP's Super Ideal Cut when it comes to optical precision, and that is all I need to know to say "take my money!" Hahaha...

For those who are interested to know, facets are actually the number of "windows" on the diamond. So more windows, will give more Scintillation, but at the expense of the size of the flashes. That being said, for Decagon, the trade-off is very much worth because for a stone like my size, 0.357ct, the difference in size of the flashes is compensate exceedingly well by the amount of Scintillation on the diamond itself.
nles
post Mar 25 2021, 06:04 PM

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QUOTE(kambingkoh @ Mar 25 2021, 03:52 PM)
What can I say? Decagon is a whole new breed of beast. Fascinating! Perhaps I see too much 57 facets round brilliant. Decagon is 111 facets, so it will definitely scintillates a lot.

Long time ago some forumer saw another high facet stones which is Hemera from Poh Kong, and like it a lot too. I don't know how it compares to Decagon, but Decagon follows the same strict standard as JP's Super Ideal Cut when it comes to optical precision, and that is all I need to know to say "take my money!" Hahaha...

For those who are interested to know, facets are actually the number of "windows" on the diamond. So more windows, will give more Scintillation, but at the expense of the size of the flashes. That being said, for Decagon, the trade-off is very much worth because for a stone like my size, 0.357ct, the difference in size of the flashes is compensate exceedingly well by the amount of Scintillation on the diamond itself.
*
I see, so there's still cons to decagon. Basically smaller bling but more, if my understanding is correct. How bout the shape of the stone?
kambingkoh
post Mar 25 2021, 09:03 PM

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QUOTE(nles @ Mar 25 2021, 06:04 PM)
I see, so there's still cons to decagon. Basically smaller bling but more, if my understanding is correct. How bout the shape of the stone?
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When I say smaller flashes, it is just theoretical. In real life, I hardly notice that the flashes are smaller than its round brilliant counterparts. In fact, Decagon is so well-designed that its performance simply outweighs the possible cons we mentioned.
nles
post Mar 25 2021, 09:53 PM

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QUOTE(kambingkoh @ Mar 25 2021, 09:03 PM)
When I say smaller flashes, it is just theoretical. In real life, I hardly notice that the flashes are smaller than its round brilliant counterparts. In fact, Decagon is so well-designed that its performance simply outweighs the possible cons we mentioned.
*
Sounds amazing 😆 thanks for the input.
kambingkoh
post Mar 25 2021, 11:40 PM

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QUOTE(nles @ Mar 25 2021, 09:53 PM)
Sounds amazing 😆 thanks for the input.
*
Oh.. the shape is erm.. Decagon shape. It is like round but with 10 corners.

You can only set it in 4 prong rings according to them, due to the corners.

If you really interested to get one, let me know, might be able to get some discount, but not a guarantee.
Loviedovie P
post Mar 30 2021, 11:59 PM

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Hi all, im so new to diamonds and would like to seek opinions about these 2 pieces. Im gonna have headaches comparing this and that and more and more bangwall.gif bangwall.gif
Could you please advise if i should go for either one?

1. GIA 6372023623 selling RM3479.00
2. GIA 1368326651 selling RM3951.00

Thank you in advance. notworthy.gif
kambingkoh
post Mar 31 2021, 01:15 AM

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QUOTE(Loviedovie @ Mar 30 2021, 11:59 PM)
Hi all, im so new to diamonds and would like to seek opinions about these 2 pieces. Im gonna have headaches comparing this and that and more and more  bangwall.gif  bangwall.gif
Could you please advise if i should go for either one?

1. GIA 6372023623 selling RM3479.00
2. GIA 1368326651 selling RM3951.00

Thank you in advance.  notworthy.gif
*
Since no images, proportions I would go with 1368326651. 35.5 crown pair with 40.6 pavilion is normal. acceptable.

Please be reminded that proportions only tell half of the picture, you need to see the overall cut quality to determine its actual quality.

You can refer to this site for some nice examples:
https://www.diamondscreener.com/cut-estimator/
simply key in the table %, crown angle, pavilion angle, and they will show you what are the best possible cut available in the inventory of James Allen. You can refer to these as example.

Here are some examples that I will introduce to my customers. The cut of these stones are somewhat the better ones in virtual inventory, although I won't call them true Hearts & Arrows, but they do possess decent cut, decent 4Cs, for its price. I have included the prices for you reference:
http://diamonds.3dvirtualdiamond.com/diamo...spx?r=USH074552, 0.43 | F | VS1- | NONE | EX-EX-EX | 2386117053 - approximately RM 4090
http://diamonds.3dvirtualdiamond.com/diamo...spx?r=USL007485, 0.4 | D | VS2 | NONE | EX-EX-EX | 6371468240 - approximately RM 3800
http://diamonds.3dvirtualdiamond.com/diamo...spx?r=USH074167, 0.41 | D | VS2 | NONE | EX-EX-EX | 2387118796 - approximately RM 3930

Here is an example of how a true Hearts & Arrows look like:
user posted image

good luck.
Loviedovie P
post Mar 31 2021, 10:25 AM

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QUOTE(kambingkoh @ Mar 31 2021, 01:15 AM)
Since no images, proportions I would go with 1368326651. 35.5 crown pair with 40.6 pavilion is normal. acceptable.

Please be reminded that proportions only tell half of the picture, you need to see the overall cut quality to determine its actual quality.

You can refer to this site for some nice examples:
https://www.diamondscreener.com/cut-estimator/
simply key in the table %, crown angle, pavilion angle, and they will show you what are the best possible cut available in the inventory of James Allen. You can refer to these as example.

Here are some examples that I will introduce to my customers. The cut of these stones are somewhat the better ones in virtual inventory, although I won't call them true Hearts & Arrows, but they do possess decent cut, decent 4Cs, for its price. I have included the prices for you reference:
http://diamonds.3dvirtualdiamond.com/diamo...spx?r=USH074552, 0.43 |  F |  VS1- |  NONE |  EX-EX-EX |  2386117053 - approximately RM 4090
http://diamonds.3dvirtualdiamond.com/diamo...spx?r=USL007485, 0.4 |  D |  VS2 |  NONE |  EX-EX-EX |  6371468240 - approximately RM 3800
http://diamonds.3dvirtualdiamond.com/diamo...spx?r=USH074167, 0.41 |  D |  VS2 |  NONE |  EX-EX-EX |  2387118796 - approximately RM 3930

Here is an example of how a true Hearts & Arrows look like:
user posted image

good luck.
*
Thankyou so much for your advices and all the tips.

Just wondering if its really okay to go lower color grade if our carat size is just about 0.4+? I can see prices differ alot for grade E and F, also i watched few youtube videos and they said the color E-H doesnt really tell huge difference.

I am thinking if I should just lower the color grades and clarity since the size im after is just about 0.4ct diamond.

Is it also recommended to avoid those diamonds where they mentioned “Cloud” in clarity characteristic? I saw they have descriptions like needle/feather/pinpoint/cloud. Is it encouraged to avoid those with certain terms?

Thank you again!
kambingkoh
post Mar 31 2021, 02:59 PM

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QUOTE(Loviedovie @ Mar 31 2021, 10:25 AM)
Thankyou so much for your advices and all the tips.

Just wondering if its really okay to go lower color grade if our carat size is just about 0.4+? I can see prices differ alot for grade E and F, also i watched few youtube videos and they said the color E-H doesnt really tell huge difference.

I am thinking if I should just lower the color grades and clarity since the size im after is just about 0.4ct diamond.

Is it also recommended to avoid those diamonds where they mentioned “Cloud” in clarity characteristic? I saw they have descriptions like needle/feather/pinpoint/cloud. Is it encouraged to avoid those with certain terms?

Thank you again!
*
Actually you can't really tell a Diamond's colour difference from just looking at it briefly without paying attention, and/or with no experience looking at higher colour grade diamonds. Even with experience, it is still hard to see, IMO. I have 0.2ct E colour and J colour and I don't see the differences immediately under normal condition. But I have to point out that my eyes are untrained lol. Anyway I can say that what most jewellers say that H colour is fine is certainly true as far as from a consumer point of view is concerned. Just that sometimes when I get diamonds from virtual inventory, I see the price differences between a D and a G is quite minimal to me hence I will usually opt for higher colour. This is common in lower carat weight diamonds, such as a 0.3ct. Things will be different as the carat weight goes higher.

Cloud inclusion is actually fine depending on your clarity grade. If it is VS1 I will buy it without worry too much. If VS2, most of the time will be fine as well. SI1 will start to be abit wary about it. Anyway, supplier will provide the necessary details whether they contain Milky/Cloudy. Overall, do check with the seller if you have concerns.

And in a grading report, the most common inclusion will rank first, followed by secondary, etc. So you will know which inclusion is the most frequent that appear in your diamond first.

For inclusions to avoid, read this article by Todd Gray:
https://niceice.com/diamond-clarity-grades/
Look at the section Diamond Clarity Inclusions To Avoid.

He is actually my so-called sifu last time and I tend to learn from him a lot as well.

For your budget based on the price of the diamond listed, you should be able to get eye-clean diamonds with no durability issue. Do check with your seller if you have concerns. Most importantly, if you can check the diamond physically, do spend some time to go see it. Or if they provide pictures, do look at them and see whether you are comfortable with it. It is after all, a more practical approach.

Good luck.

This post has been edited by kambingkoh: Mar 31 2021, 03:13 PM
nles
post Mar 31 2021, 06:42 PM

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QUOTE(kambingkoh @ Mar 31 2021, 02:59 PM)
Actually you can't really tell a Diamond's colour difference from just looking at it briefly without paying attention, and/or with no experience looking at higher colour grade diamonds. Even with experience, it is still hard to see, IMO. I have 0.2ct E colour and J colour and I don't see the differences immediately under normal condition. But I have to point out that my eyes are untrained lol. Anyway I can say that what most jewellers say that H colour is fine is certainly true as far as from a consumer point of view is concerned. Just that sometimes when I get diamonds from virtual inventory, I see the price differences between a D and a G is quite minimal to me hence I will usually opt for higher colour. This is common in lower carat weight diamonds, such as a 0.3ct. Things will be different as the carat weight goes higher.

Cloud inclusion is actually fine depending on your clarity grade. If it is VS1 I will buy it without worry too much. If VS2, most of the time will be fine as well. SI1 will start to be abit wary about it. Anyway, supplier will provide the necessary details whether they contain Milky/Cloudy. Overall, do check with the seller if you have concerns.

And in a grading report, the most common inclusion will rank first, followed by secondary, etc. So you will know which inclusion is the most frequent that appear in your diamond first.

For inclusions to avoid, read this article by Todd Gray:
https://niceice.com/diamond-clarity-grades/
Look at the section Diamond Clarity Inclusions To Avoid.

He is actually my so-called sifu last time and I tend to learn from him a lot as well.

For your budget based on the price of the diamond listed, you should be able to get eye-clean diamonds with no durability issue. Do check with your seller if you have concerns. Most importantly, if you can check the diamond physically, do spend some time to go see it. Or if they provide pictures, do look at them and see whether you are comfortable with it. It is after all, a more practical approach.

Good luck.
*
Among those 3 that you shared, which 1 would you pick and why? I'm looking at those 3, obviously there's no perfect stone. So would like to know what a sifu prioritize first.
kambingkoh
post Mar 31 2021, 09:21 PM

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QUOTE(nles @ Mar 31 2021, 06:42 PM)
Among those 3 that you shared, which 1 would you pick and why? I'm looking at those 3, obviously there's no perfect stone. So would like to know what a sifu prioritize first.
*
If you want to say the overall cut precision, then it is no doubt the F colour that is closest to what a true hearts and Arrows look like.

But actually you gave me a tough question lol. Although I prioritize cut, but the D colour is so tempting. Moreover, they are cheaper as well while looking almost the same size. Still, I will probably still go with the F first, for its cut. Then followed by the smaller D colour, which although looks messier in terms of the Hearts, they seem rather balance, and the front facing arrows look more pronounced, besides the price is cheaper, and lastly followed by the 0.41ct D.
nles
post Mar 31 2021, 09:45 PM

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QUOTE(kambingkoh @ Mar 31 2021, 09:21 PM)
If you want to say the overall cut precision, then it is no doubt the F colour that is closest to what a true hearts and Arrows look like.

But actually you gave me a tough question lol. Although I prioritize cut, but the D colour is so tempting. Moreover, they are cheaper as well while looking almost the same size. Still, I will probably still go with the F first, for its cut. Then followed by the smaller D colour, which although looks messier in terms of the Hearts, they seem rather balance, and the front facing arrows look more pronounced, besides the price is cheaper, and lastly followed by the 0.41ct D.
*
I got much more to learn, I thought F won't rank highest because the heart on 1 o'clock ain't symmetry.
kambingkoh
post Mar 31 2021, 09:50 PM

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QUOTE(nles @ Mar 31 2021, 09:45 PM)
I got much more to learn, I thought F won't rank highest because the heart on 1 o'clock ain't symmetry.
*
But still better than the other 2 hearts.
Loviedovie P
post Apr 1 2021, 07:14 AM

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QUOTE(kambingkoh @ Mar 31 2021, 02:59 PM)
Actually you can't really tell a Diamond's colour difference from just looking at it briefly without paying attention, and/or with no experience looking at higher colour grade diamonds. Even with experience, it is still hard to see, IMO. I have 0.2ct E colour and J colour and I don't see the differences immediately under normal condition. But I have to point out that my eyes are untrained lol. Anyway I can say that what most jewellers say that H colour is fine is certainly true as far as from a consumer point of view is concerned. Just that sometimes when I get diamonds from virtual inventory, I see the price differences between a D and a G is quite minimal to me hence I will usually opt for higher colour. This is common in lower carat weight diamonds, such as a 0.3ct. Things will be different as the carat weight goes higher.

Cloud inclusion is actually fine depending on your clarity grade. If it is VS1 I will buy it without worry too much. If VS2, most of the time will be fine as well. SI1 will start to be abit wary about it. Anyway, supplier will provide the necessary details whether they contain Milky/Cloudy. Overall, do check with the seller if you have concerns.

And in a grading report, the most common inclusion will rank first, followed by secondary, etc. So you will know which inclusion is the most frequent that appear in your diamond first.

For inclusions to avoid, read this article by Todd Gray:
https://niceice.com/diamond-clarity-grades/
Look at the section Diamond Clarity Inclusions To Avoid.

He is actually my so-called sifu last time and I tend to learn from him a lot as well.

For your budget based on the price of the diamond listed, you should be able to get eye-clean diamonds with no durability issue. Do check with your seller if you have concerns. Most importantly, if you can check the diamond physically, do spend some time to go see it. Or if they provide pictures, do look at them and see whether you are comfortable with it. It is after all, a more practical approach.

Good luck.
*
Ahh i see, thanks Kambing Koh for all these great tips!!

By the way, just received the images

1368326651
user posted image

6372023623
user posted image

I noticed there are more flaws in the second diamond but sales said these are taken under 40x magnification so our naked eyes probably wont see them.
She suggested me to visit their store and compare the diamonds side to side and decide.

If we arent planning to resell and if naked eye wont really notice the flaws, then should we just go ahead for bigger carat instead of the clarity?
Not sure if this is the logic haha.

Thanks to advise me again notworthy.gif


kambingkoh
post Apr 1 2021, 11:23 AM

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QUOTE(Loviedovie @ Apr 1 2021, 07:14 AM)
Ahh i see, thanks Kambing Koh for all these great tips!!

By the way, just received the images

1368326651
user posted image

6372023623
user posted image

I noticed there are more flaws in the second diamond but sales said these are taken under 40x magnification so our naked eyes probably wont see them.
She suggested me to visit their store and compare the diamonds side to side and decide.

If we arent planning to resell and if naked eye wont really notice the flaws, then should we just go ahead for bigger carat instead of the clarity?
Not sure if this is the logic haha.

Thanks to advise me again  notworthy.gif
*
1368326651 looks nicer than 6372023623. Between these 2, I will take 1368326651.

I noticed there are more flaws in the second diamond but sales said these are taken under 40x magnification so our naked eyes probably wont see them. - She is probably right. Usually for diamonds, "black" inclusion is not preferred, but i don't see there are any "black" inclusions on the diamond from my untrained eye.

She suggested me to visit their store and compare the diamonds side to side and decide. - Yup. go and see them.

The cheaper diamond has Clarity Characteristics Twinning Wisp, Cloud. I will probably check for cloudiness/milkyness instead. Usually I will just rely on the BGM indicator whereby M stands for Milky. Make sure BGM = No.
You can read more about BGM here: https://rareandforever.com/what-you-dont-kn...about-diamonds/, https://www.victorcanera.com/blog/diamond-color-undertones

If we arent planning to resell and if naked eye wont really notice the flaws, then should we just go ahead for bigger carat instead of the clarity? - I can't answer this for you. Everyone has their own preference. For me, if the SI1 is eye-clean and BGM free, then I am fine. But the reason I am not picking this is because the proportions are not as good as the other diamond. To add on, the image does not give me enough confidence to pick it over another. Of course, unless you treat proportions like clarity, whereby the eyes can't pick up the differences, then naturally, we can consider going after carat weight. But for your info, all those "branded" diamonds like "Lazare" are actually stricter in terms of proportions compared to typical GIA 3EX. You can see that not only they use proportions as their cutting criteria, even some other brands do the same? Is it marketing gimmick? If you ask me, it is something that can be proven, or rather it is something that can be concluded based on observation of better diamonds in some jeweller's signature diamonds category. Of course, some seller may tell you differently. So it is up to you to digest what's right for you.

As for resell value, please be reminded that despite what others may say, diamonds won't have strong resell value. The best bet for you to get back more money is that the company provides you with buy-back guarantee. For this sort of guarantee, locally, I am not aware that there is a company that provides good buy-back policy.
Loviedovie P
post Apr 2 2021, 01:20 PM

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QUOTE(kambingkoh @ Apr 1 2021, 11:23 AM)
1368326651 looks nicer than 6372023623. Between these 2, I will take 1368326651.

I noticed there are more flaws in the second diamond but sales said these are taken under 40x magnification so our naked eyes probably wont see them. - She is probably right. Usually for diamonds, "black" inclusion is not preferred, but i don't see there are any "black" inclusions on the diamond from my untrained eye.

She suggested me to visit their store and compare the diamonds side to side and decide. - Yup. go and see them.

The cheaper diamond has Clarity Characteristics Twinning Wisp, Cloud. I will probably check for cloudiness/milkyness instead. Usually I will just rely on the BGM indicator whereby M stands for Milky. Make sure BGM = No.
You can read more about BGM here: https://rareandforever.com/what-you-dont-kn...about-diamonds/, https://www.victorcanera.com/blog/diamond-color-undertones

If we arent planning to resell and if naked eye wont really notice the flaws, then should we just go ahead for bigger carat instead of the clarity? - I can't answer this for you. Everyone has their own preference. For me, if the SI1 is eye-clean and BGM free, then I am fine. But the reason I am not picking this is because the proportions are not as good as the other diamond. To add on, the image does not give me enough confidence to pick it over another. Of course, unless you treat proportions like clarity, whereby the eyes can't pick up the differences, then naturally, we can consider going after carat weight. But for your info, all those "branded" diamonds like "Lazare" are actually stricter in terms of proportions compared to typical GIA 3EX. You can see that not only they use proportions as their cutting criteria, even some other brands do the same? Is it marketing gimmick? If you ask me, it is something that can be proven, or rather it is something that can be concluded based on observation of better diamonds in some jeweller's signature diamonds category. Of course, some seller may tell you differently. So it is up to you to digest what's right for you.

As for resell value, please be reminded that despite what others may say, diamonds won't have strong resell value. The best bet for you to get back more money is that the company provides you with buy-back guarantee. For this sort of guarantee, locally, I am not aware that there is a company that provides good buy-back policy.
*
Loviedovie P
post Apr 2 2021, 01:25 PM

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I see, no wonder yesterday the Wah Chan sales told me they’re currently launching a promotion about customers can trade in their diamond within 3 years at 100% value.

Guess its a very attractive package to customers that wish to go for better carat in future.
nles
post Apr 2 2021, 02:06 PM

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3 years doesn't sound much. What are the chances you may trade in within 3 years.

By the way, which country measurement we're using for ring size? Hong-Kong? Time to secretly get the ring size.
kambingkoh
post Apr 2 2021, 09:01 PM

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QUOTE(Loviedovie @ Apr 2 2021, 01:25 PM)
I see, no wonder yesterday the Wah Chan sales told me they’re currently launching a promotion about customers can trade in their diamond within 3 years at 100% value.

Guess its a very attractive package to customers that wish to go for better carat in future.
*
I think certain jeweller has such package already. But you have to buy another item that is double the value, if not mistaken.

So if I buy a diamond that cost 4000 now, the next one will be at least 8000. And subsequent maybe 16000? Well, that's how my maths works at least.

On the other hand, some trade-in benefit for certain US vendors will be like "as long as you buy something more expensive". So you can opt for another diamond that is like USD 1 more expensive.

And trade-in and buy-back is different. Trade-in you have to exchange for something more expensive. Buy-back is you take back cash, and the jeweler take the diamond at a discounted price. I am not aware of any attractive buy-back in Malaysia...

This post has been edited by kambingkoh: Apr 3 2021, 01:02 AM
kambingkoh
post Apr 2 2021, 09:02 PM

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QUOTE(nles @ Apr 2 2021, 02:06 PM)
3 years doesn't sound much. What are the chances you may trade in within 3 years.

By the way, which country measurement we're using for ring size? Hong-Kong? Time to secretly get the ring size.
*
Hong Kong is quite the standard here.

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