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> changing and looping new wall socket, help me master

advocado
post Jan 2 2018, 09:26 PM

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QUOTE(Zot @ Jan 2 2018, 08:52 PM)
The wire is freely move around. The chance to get cut is very unlikely.

At the  back of the panel, like all sockets, has mechanical part ans switch, socket pins, etc. So, it protrude to certain extend. The screw need to be ling to catch the cement deep beyond the protrusion. The mounting box has plastic post that make it unnecessary for too long a screw and easier to install.

No need to apply glue as the edge cover the hole when mounted. Applying glue makes it difficult to do repair. Ganged one similar to single one except the back protrusion is longer rectangular in shape. You cannot see interconnection normally.
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so 2 single gang box cannot fit a 2 gang socket and must use 1 2gang box right? how many types are there? i see got 1 totally sit inside wall the other the outer edge is larger than the hole thus prevents the box from going in too deep. the thing with the sit inside one is if your hole is too deep it may sit too in.

also how to secure the box other than making a hole that is just big enough to hold it tight?
Zot
post Jan 3 2018, 08:07 AM

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QUOTE(advocado @ Jan 2 2018, 09:26 PM)
so 2 single gang box cannot fit a 2 gang socket and must use 1 2gang box right? how many types are there? i see got 1 totally sit inside wall the other the outer edge is larger than the hole thus prevents the box from going in too deep. the thing with the sit inside one is if your hole is too deep it may sit too in.

also how to secure the box other than making a hole that is just big enough to hold it tight?
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Yes the 2 x single will not fit in. The 2 ganged socket only needs 2 screws. So, the fitting is different. As long as you have something to screw on behind the socket, the mounting bracket box need not be installed. My ganged socket was screwed on the MDF board. So, I just cut a hole.

Yes, like you said the hole is just enough to let the protrusion part behind the socket to go all the way in, leaving the socket panel edge to hold on to the wall. There is no need for glue or anything. The bracket box inside the wall is mounted before the wall is plastered actually. Therefore it is sometimes far deep inside the wall. So, the socket installer sometimes use longer screw and sometimes shorter. The bracket sometimes even tilted a bit. It does not matter as long as the screw can hold the socket panel and pull the panel tightly to the wall surface covering the opening hole.

You can unscrew few sockets in your house and you will understand how they are fixed. smile.gif
advocado
post Jan 3 2018, 11:21 AM

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QUOTE(Zot @ Jan 3 2018, 08:07 AM)
Yes the 2 x single will not fit in. The 2 ganged socket only needs 2 screws. So, the fitting is different. As long as you have something to screw on behind the socket, the mounting bracket box need not be installed. My ganged socket was screwed on the MDF board. So, I just cut a hole.

Yes, like you said the hole is just enough to let the protrusion part behind the socket to go all the way in, leaving the socket panel edge to hold on to the wall. There is no need for glue or anything. The bracket box inside the wall is mounted before the wall is plastered actually. Therefore it is sometimes far deep inside the wall. So, the socket installer sometimes use longer screw and sometimes shorter. The bracket sometimes even tilted a bit. It does not matter as long as the screw can hold the socket panel and pull the panel tightly to the wall surface covering the opening hole.

You can unscrew few sockets in your house and you will understand how they are fixed.  smile.gif
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ok, so the standard black box has panel edges hanging on the wall not 100% buried inside the hole? now my question is if i want to add a 2 gang socket beside existing 1 gang socket, i can make the hole but as there's small gap between the new & old how to route the wire to new socket?

do you hack the surface of the wall all the way from old socket, or can the box inside the old socket be removed so i can easily drill a hole from inside to route the wires within the wall?
Zot
post Jan 3 2018, 11:46 AM

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QUOTE(advocado @ Jan 3 2018, 11:21 AM)
ok, so the standard black box has panel edges hanging on the wall not 100% buried inside the hole? now my question is if i want to add a 2 gang socket beside existing 1 gang socket, i can make the hole but as there's small gap between the new & old how to route the wire to new socket?

do you hack the surface of the wall all the way from old socket, or can the box inside the old socket be removed so i can easily drill a hole from inside to route the wires within the wall?
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The black mounting box has no flange and is fix inside the hole totally. It is the socket front panel that lay flat on the wall pulled by the screw on the socket panel to the black bracket box.

So you want to add ganged socket next to existing single socket to make it 3 sockets. I would just cut the hole all the way from the existing one. When you screw them, just push them close together. You cannot see the hole as no one will notice it. That is the way all contractors do it. So if you mix two different brand, maybe the heights are not the same. Just replace the single one with the same brand and will look just nice and professional. wink.gif
advocado
post Jan 3 2018, 12:04 PM

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QUOTE(Zot @ Jan 3 2018, 11:46 AM)
The black mounting box has no flange and is fix inside the hole totally. It is the socket front panel that lay flat on the wall pulled by the screw on the socket panel to the black bracket box.

So you want to add ganged socket next to existing single socket to make it 3 sockets. I would just cut the hole all the way from the existing one. When you screw them, just push them close together. You cannot see the hole as no one will notice it. That is the way all contractors do it. So if you mix two different brand, maybe the heights are not the same. Just replace the single one with the same brand and will look just nice and professional.  wink.gif
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so how to prevent digging too deep and the box end up sitting too inside? and how to secure the black box in position after putting in since unless you use a Box Sinker the hole won't be just fit.

and to cut a hole all the way from existing, do i need to take out existing box because it's in the way?

also have you seen box sinker locally? i can make a nice square hole very fast instead of drill+hack.
Zot
post Jan 3 2018, 12:42 PM

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QUOTE(advocado @ Jan 3 2018, 12:04 PM)
so how to prevent digging too deep and the box end up sitting too inside? and how to secure the black box in position after putting in since unless you use a Box Sinker the hole won't be just fit.

and to cut a hole all the way from existing, do i need to take out existing box because it's in the way?

also have you seen box sinker locally? i can make a nice square hole very fast instead of drill+hack.
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Like I mentioned before, it does not matter if a bit deep or close to wall surface. The screw will just pull the socket front panel snug to the wall. What you cannot see inside the hole is that there are gap between the mounting box and the socket panel. It is normal. They are not designed to be closely fit together anyway. smile.gif This is why I mentioned before the screws that hold the socket panel in my house have different length from one socket to another.

Opps. I forgot to mentioned that the screw that is used to screw the socket facet panel is not the screws that are provided with the socket, but rather normal screw that bought from shop. The screws that comes with the socket are machine screw but the contractor use the self taping screw

Attached Image
Machine Screw

Attached Image
Self Taping Screw

Like I said the black mounting box is normally nailed to the wall brick before the wall is plastered or tiled. These black plastic box is not rigid plastic. It can be easily cut with blade knife. So, no need to remove anything. Just hack the wall, elongate the existing hole to the right or left. Just make sure the hole is not too big that it will sink the socket facet inside the whole. As for the holding black box inside the hole, you can just nail it with concrete nail or just use epoxy. Cut a slot between the box to route the wire. The plastic is quite soft.

Don't worry much if it is not perfectly align next to each other or to the socket panel. The screw will just pull the socket facet to the wall and just align the socket before tightened the screw. The wall friction will hold the socket in place just nice.

First time I learn about box sinker blush.gif . Never use one. Anyway the wall brick is normally cement type and easy to chisel smile.gif
advocado
post Jan 3 2018, 05:20 PM

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QUOTE(Zot @ Jan 3 2018, 12:42 PM)
Like I mentioned before, it does not matter if a bit deep or close to wall surface. The screw will just pull the socket front panel snug to the wall. What you cannot see inside the hole is that there are gap between the mounting box and the socket panel. It is normal. They are not designed to be closely fit together anyway.  smile.gif  This is why I mentioned before the screws that hold the  socket panel in my house have different length from one socket to another.

Opps. I forgot to mentioned that the screw that is used to screw the socket facet panel is not the screws that are provided with the socket, but rather normal screw that bought from shop. The screws that comes with the socket are machine screw but the contractor use the self taping screw

Attached Image
Machine Screw

Attached Image
Self Taping Screw

Like I said the black mounting box is normally nailed to the wall brick before the wall is plastered or tiled. These black plastic box is not rigid plastic. It can be easily cut with blade knife. So, no need to remove anything. Just hack the wall, elongate the existing hole to the right or left. Just make sure the hole is not too big that it will sink the socket facet inside the whole. As for the holding black box inside the hole, you can just nail it with concrete nail or just use epoxy. Cut a slot between the box to route the wire. The plastic is quite soft.

Don't worry much if it is not perfectly align next to each other or to the socket panel. The screw will just pull the socket facet to the wall and just align the socket before tightened the screw. The wall friction will hold the socket in place just nice.

First time I learn about box sinker  blush.gif . Never use one. Anyway the wall brick is normally cement type and easy to chisel  smile.gif
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chisel the hole can be done with a hammer drill & chisel bit with hammer function on or need to use cutter on the 4 sides 1st before hacking. when they say hacking they use the chisel with hammer mode right? or drill bit with hammer mode?
Zot
post Jan 3 2018, 05:26 PM

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QUOTE(advocado @ Jan 3 2018, 05:20 PM)
chisel the hole can be done with a hammer drill & chisel bit with hammer function on or need to use cutter on the 4 sides 1st before hacking. when they say hacking they use the chisel with hammer mode right? or drill bit with hammer mode?
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Drill bit with hammer mode is to easy drilling on cement and concrete. Hammering normally means a hammer and chisel. I bought my self a 3 mode rotary hammer drill; drill, hammer-drill and just hammering. Last time I just use hammer and chisel. One or two hole still OK.

Just drill as many holes a bit inside along planned hole line and chisel along the drill holes. It is easy this way and prevent unintentional crack.

This post has been edited by Zot: Jan 3 2018, 05:27 PM
^pomen_GTR^
post Jan 3 2018, 05:27 PM

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QUOTE(slap2begin @ May 3 2014, 04:32 PM)
hi

my wall socket already melt when im using 1hp aircond.. why this thing happen ar  rclxub.gif
i want to change the new wall socket... but the problem is wall housing already broken lor...so cant screw tight...

and how to loop ?  cause i want to make it two...seperate..1 for aircond and another 1 for pc..
cause before this if i share aircond and pc the wall socket make bzzzzz sounds
and last what is the total price shud i spent to buy all the things.. icon_question.gif
[attachmentid=3955555][attachmentid=3955557][attachmentid=3955559]
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ac use 16amp rated socket... not this 13amp rated normal plug socket...
advocado
post Jan 3 2018, 05:34 PM

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QUOTE(^pomen_GTR^ @ Jan 3 2018, 05:27 PM)
ac use 16amp rated socket... not this 13amp rated normal plug socket...
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do you mean 15A round plug socket?
advocado
post Jan 3 2018, 05:35 PM

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QUOTE(Zot @ Jan 3 2018, 05:26 PM)
Drill bit with hammer mode is to easy drilling on cement and concrete. Hammering normally means a hammer and chisel. I bought my self a 3 mode rotary hammer drill; drill, hammer-drill and just hammering. Last time I just use hammer and chisel. One or two hole still OK.

Just drill as many holes a bit inside along planned hole line and chisel along the drill holes. It is easy this way and prevent unintentional crack.
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the wall is RC wall but non loaded.

so i use drill bit with normal or hammer mode when making the holes?

do i make the holes like a square bee hive then change to chisel with hammer mode to dig the hole?
^pomen_GTR^
post Jan 4 2018, 01:05 PM

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QUOTE(advocado @ Jan 3 2018, 05:34 PM)
do you mean 15A round plug socket?
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yeah..the round type like this

user posted image
advocado
post Jan 4 2018, 01:51 PM

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QUOTE(^pomen_GTR^ @ Jan 4 2018, 01:05 PM)
yeah..the round type like this

user posted image
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yea it's rated 15A, but becareful as the same plug design also have 5A rated version. not sure the size is same or not if same it's dangerous for someone to mistaken the 5A plug as 15A.
Lazy_MF
post Jan 5 2018, 06:14 AM

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Dear Sifus, I’m going to do wiring works for my house.

Would like to know maximum 13A socket points 1 MCB C16 can support?

If I pull 2 circuits from 1 MCB C16 to make 2 socket points, then loop another beside each to make total 4 points, would it be ok?
weikee
post Jan 5 2018, 08:14 AM

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QUOTE(Lazy_MF @ Jan 5 2018, 06:14 AM)
Dear Sifus, I’m going to do wiring works for my house.

Would like to know maximum 13A socket points 1 MCB C16 can support?

If I pull 2 circuits from 1 MCB C16 to make 2 socket points, then loop another beside each to make total 4 points, would it be ok?
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Technically you can daisy chain 10 also no problem, you have to make sure the total current does not exceed 13amps. The normal practice is only have 2-3 per mcb. The more daisy/loop the higher risk of fire risk due to contact problems if not connect properly.
advocado
post Jan 5 2018, 11:43 AM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Jan 5 2018, 08:14 AM)
Technically you can daisy chain 10 also no problem, you have to make sure the total current does not exceed 13amps. The normal practice is only have 2-3 per mcb. The more daisy/loop the higher risk of fire risk due to contact problems if not connect properly.
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to add another socket beside existing, what is the best method and connector used to connect the looping wires?

1.Remove existing wires from existing socket, add 2 sets of wires from existing & new socket to existing wire.

2.Connect wires from new socket directly to existing socket (not sure if socket holders can accept 2 wires or not).

3.Which type of connector is recommended?
ozak
post Jan 5 2018, 11:51 AM

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QUOTE(Lazy_MF @ Jan 5 2018, 06:14 AM)
Dear Sifus, I’m going to do wiring works for my house.

Would like to know maximum 13A socket points 1 MCB C16 can support?

If I pull 2 circuits from 1 MCB C16 to make 2 socket points, then loop another beside each to make total 4 points, would it be ok?
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MCB C16 is only for 1 point.

If you pull 2 point, change it to C20.
Zot
post Jan 5 2018, 12:04 PM

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QUOTE(advocado @ Jan 3 2018, 05:35 PM)
the wall is RC wall but non loaded.

so i use drill bit with normal or hammer mode when making the holes?

do i make the holes like a square bee hive then change to chisel with hammer mode to dig the hole?
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With RC you meant Reinforced Concrete? I would call that cement brick a concrete. It is even softer than clay brick laugh.gif

Yes. Drill along as many holes along perimeter and if you have rotary hammer drill with just hammer mode, it is very easy to chisel the hole.
Zot
post Jan 5 2018, 12:07 PM

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QUOTE(advocado @ Jan 4 2018, 01:51 PM)
yea it's rated 15A, but becareful as the same plug design also have 5A rated version. not sure the size is same or not if same it's dangerous for someone to mistaken the 5A plug as 15A.
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I think the 5A rated one is smaller in pins size and plug size. Will not fit socket dedicated for 15A. It is not common to see 5A because it is not standard here unlike India.
weikee
post Jan 5 2018, 12:19 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Jan 5 2018, 11:51 AM)
MCB C16 is only for 1 point.

If you pull 2 point, change it to C20.
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If branch out from MCB C20 is ok, but if tap from another socket, is better remain C16, because the last miles to the MCB cable may not be able handle 20Amps.

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