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> changing and looping new wall socket, help me master

slap2begin
post May 3 2014, 08:15 PM

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QUOTE(jex-koi @ May 3 2014, 07:48 PM)
No change the wall socket with double-pole switch, but to ADD a double-pole switch for the aircon.

This is what i recommend :

1) Install the double-pole switch near the aircon. So the aircon power cable will be connected to this switch.
2) Add wire (use 70/ or higher) from power socket to double-pole switch. Remember to connect the ground, as most electricians do not do it.
3) Replace the wall-power socket
If you are unsure, best to get an electrician to do it ($ again), as this involves electricity and may cause fire if done incorrectly.
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So the double pole switch will share power with the socket right??

Refer pic below

user posted image



This post has been edited by slap2begin: May 4 2014, 01:36 AM
ozak
post May 3 2014, 09:04 PM

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QUOTE(slap2begin @ May 3 2014, 07:15 PM)
There have two socket that share 1 mcb.. 1st the one that melted and 2nd one is still ok cause not using aircond..

Then i make and experiment..i took long extension and put the plug on the 2nd socket the buzz sound appear..but not open aircond..

Then i put it on another socket different mcb the bzzz sound  dissappear..

Why huh?
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The buzz sound will happen to any loose contact. It is not about your aircon.

And forget to tell, there is another thing that cause the buzz is the dirty with carbon on the surface.

Normally when I hear such a sound when plug in or any electrical contact, I will immediately OFF it. Either clean the contact or replace the plug/socket. Than the sound gone.
firecrac
post May 3 2014, 11:27 PM

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switch socket outlet melt because
i. Draw too much power from single source
ii. Faulty MCB
iii. Fuse burnt inside plug

And no, u cant upsize your MCB on your DB, size of cable into your MCB might be too small to cater your upgrade MCB size, and same for outgoing cable from MCB to aircond.

Lastly, pay the electrician which able to do the work if u dont know what u are doing, figure out the money u can save or your own life u can save.
supersound
post May 4 2014, 08:03 AM

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QUOTE(firecrac @ May 3 2014, 11:27 PM)
switch socket outlet melt because
i. Draw too much power from single source
ii. Faulty MCB
iii. Fuse burnt inside plug

And no, u cant upsize your MCB on your DB, size of cable into your MCB might be too small to cater your upgrade MCB size, and same for outgoing cable from MCB to aircond.

Lastly, pay the electrician which able to do the work if u dont know what u are doing, figure out the money u can save or your own life u can save.
*
Why not? If your intention is want to burn the house down whistling.gif
slap2begin
post May 4 2014, 09:34 AM

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QUOTE(supersound @ May 4 2014, 08:03 AM)
Why not? If your intention is want to burn the house down whistling.gif
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Whatever la bro..btw all ur answer not helping..better stop posting in my thread lah...or u are collecting star? Go /k section lor ..
firecrac
post May 4 2014, 10:17 AM

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i think ppl here are helpful, just u are ignoring their advice.

solution only got few on hands,
1. pull new wire for your pc.
2. change you pc to laptop. new pc nowadays having 500-1000w PSU is drawing too much juice.
3. buy the socket and install back the same as u used to, but definitely is not safe.
4. if u insist the way u want to do. here it is. http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/7/7d/Sing...LightingCct.jpg

continue praying and kthxbye.
slap2begin
post May 4 2014, 10:20 AM

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QUOTE(firecrac @ May 4 2014, 10:17 AM)
i think ppl here are helpful, just u are ignoring their advice.

solution only got few on hands,
1. pull new wire for your pc.
2. change you pc to laptop. new pc nowadays having 500-1000w PSU is drawing too much juice.
3. buy the socket and install back the same as u used to, but definitely is not safe.
4. if u insist the way u want to do. here it is. http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/7/7d/Sing...LightingCct.jpg

continue praying and kthxbye.
*
Of course ppl here helpful only 1 is troller..i ignoring? Im asking for solving here..lel...

Btw ty for ur suggestion..

ozak
post May 4 2014, 03:26 PM

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QUOTE(slap2begin @ May 3 2014, 08:15 PM)
So the double pole switch will share power with the socket right??

Refer pic below

user posted image
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This should be the correct way. So your aircon no need plug/unplug. While the 20A switch is good enough to handle your aircon.

Makesure you secure the wire tight. And main wire go in the 20A switch first.

Take this as general knowledge, every single wall socket direct from DB box is max 3000watt. How you share it, max is 3000watt. And don't run in long hr.
slap2begin
post May 4 2014, 05:34 PM

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E
QUOTE(ozak @ May 4 2014, 03:26 PM)
This should be the correct way. So your aircon no need plug/unplug. While the 20A switch is good enough to handle your aircon.

Makesure you secure the wire tight. And main wire go in the 20A switch first.

Take this as general knowledge, every single wall socket direct from DB box is max 3000watt. How you share it, max is 3000watt. And don't run in long hr.
*
Job done thanks for ur help bro.. need to put a simen touchup cause the mk socket housing abit small

Using mk 15amp for aircond.. total spent rm25

user posted image

user posted image

Btw 1hp aircond how many watt?? yawn.gif

This post has been edited by slap2begin: May 4 2014, 05:47 PM
ozak
post May 4 2014, 07:10 PM

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QUOTE(slap2begin @ May 4 2014, 05:34 PM)
E
Job done thanks for ur help bro.. need to put a simen touchup cause the mk socket housing abit small

Using mk 15amp for aircond.. total spent rm25

user posted image

user posted image

Btw 1hp aircond how many watt?? yawn.gif
*
Abit ugly. But ok lah. biggrin.gif

1hp = 750watt.
silingkapur
post May 5 2014, 05:14 PM

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To be precise, 1hp = 746 watt.

I also experience same thing buzzing sound at wall socket when use 13A 3 pin socket to connect to the 1hp aircond.

Good to have this thread.

So after this I need to clean the contact of plug to make the buzzing sound disappear.

Someone also told me that it is not good sharing wall socket plug which already used for aircond with another high power equipment. The insulation of the cable inside the wall might melt for long time use and it will cause short circuit.


cdspins
post May 5 2014, 10:18 PM

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Your charger share the same powerpoint with the wall plug? If possible, when aircond is turned on, try not to use the charger. As when the aircond is drawing large current, it will force it into the charger as well.
dinor01
post May 14 2014, 10:52 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ May 4 2014, 07:10 PM)
Abit ugly. But ok lah.  biggrin.gif 

1hp = 750watt.
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do u know how much for 2HP one?750x2=1500kw?
advocado
post Jan 2 2018, 11:15 AM

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QUOTE(slap2begin @ May 4 2014, 05:34 PM)
E
Job done thanks for ur help bro.. need to put a simen touchup cause the mk socket housing abit small

Using mk 15amp for aircond.. total spent rm25

user posted image

user posted image

Btw 1hp aircond how many watt?? ohmy.gif
*
hi, can ask, you replaced the white box inside the wall with another white box? so the socket next to the one with the big hole just sits on the wall? with screw or silicone?
advocado
post Jan 2 2018, 12:01 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ May 3 2014, 06:40 PM)
It look like some loose contact and the heat fuse the socket and the plug pin. It also melt the plug and the plug hole loose. Once you pull the plug out, the pin remain at the socket.

The bzzzz sound is the loose contact sound. Where the spark jump to each other contact. This spark produce heat.

It is not advise to always plug and unplug the aircon to share. The contact will loose in 1 day and result is like your picture.

If you want to share, the condition is, the sharing equipment is not high power usage. Anything cannot be over 1500w. Aircon + equipment cannot be over 2kw for long running.

Than to loop it for aircon, Don't use plug and wall socket. Use the 20A switch. Main wire must go to 20A switch first. Than loop another pair of wire to the wall socket.
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hi, can clarify on the 1500w, and total should not exceed 2kw? just want to make sure.

we assuming the wiring is only shared for that socket plus the additional loop, 1500w would convert to 6.5A (assuming 230V), 2kw is around 8.6A, the sockets are rated for 13A each, the wiring 2.5mm2 should be rated close to 18A-21A, with the MCB tripping at 20A. so even with 2kw it's still has around 30% safety margin from it's designed 13A limit.

unless i got the W to A conversion wrong do correct.

1hp inverter AC nowadays consume around 4-5A (based on their input W). but generally AC uses 20A double pole switch, 4mm2 wires to 20A MCB.

cooking hob consume alot more power than 1hp AC, yet most contractors give the same spec as the AC (20A switch/4mm2 wires/20A MCB).

the one thing different tapping AC from existing socket vs dedicated line is AC wiring to DB normally runs on the 100mA RCD, while sockets runs on 30mA RCD, whether running AC on 30mA RCD has any side effects?

This post has been edited by advocado: Jan 2 2018, 12:05 PM
Zot
post Jan 2 2018, 12:05 PM

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QUOTE(advocado @ Jan 2 2018, 12:01 PM)
hi, can clarify on the 1500w, and total should not exceed 2kw? just want to make sure.

we assuming the wiring is only shared for that socket plus the additional loop, 1500w would convert to 6.5A (assuming 230V), 2kw is around 8.6A, the sockets are rated for 13A each, the wiring 2.5mm2 should be rated close to 18A-21A, with the MCB tripping at 20A. so even with 2kw it's still has around 30% safety margin from it's designed 13A limit.

unless i got the W to A conversion wrong do correct.

1hp inverter AC nowadays consume around 4-5A (based on their input W). but generally AC uses 20A double pole switch, 4mm2 wires to 20A MCB.

cooking hob consume alot more power than 1hp AC, yet most contractors give the same spec as the AC (20A switch/4mm2 wires/20A MCB).
*
You asked the person who probably has moved to a new house in 2014? laugh.gif
advocado
post Jan 2 2018, 12:25 PM

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QUOTE(Zot @ Jan 2 2018, 12:05 PM)
You asked the person who probably has moved to a new house in 2014?  laugh.gif
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yea, he's still active in the forum and i don't think guidelines has changed for the past few years?

of course, anyone else who has insights can share.
ozak
post Jan 2 2018, 12:57 PM

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QUOTE(advocado @ Jan 2 2018, 12:01 PM)
hi, can clarify on the 1500w, and total should not exceed 2kw? just want to make sure.

we assuming the wiring is only shared for that socket plus the additional loop, 1500w would convert to 6.5A (assuming 230V), 2kw is around 8.6A, the sockets are rated for 13A each, the wiring 2.5mm2 should be rated close to 18A-21A, with the MCB tripping at 20A. so even with 2kw it's still has around 30% safety margin from it's designed 13A limit.

unless i got the W to A conversion wrong do correct.

1hp inverter AC nowadays consume around 4-5A (based on their input W). but generally AC uses 20A double pole switch, 4mm2 wires to 20A MCB.

cooking hob consume alot more power than 1hp AC, yet most contractors give the same spec as the AC (20A switch/4mm2 wires/20A MCB).

the one thing different tapping AC from existing socket vs dedicated line is AC wiring to DB normally runs on the 100mA RCD, while sockets runs on 30mA RCD, whether running AC on 30mA RCD has any side effects?
*
Aircon have 3 motor running together. Motor Start running will require 2-3x the actual Amp. (In short time) Too high exceed the MCB rate will trip the MCB.

I don't understand your RCD explain. How many RCD have in a house ? There is only 1 RCD in the main DB box that supply to all the MCB.


Zot
post Jan 2 2018, 01:12 PM

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QUOTE(advocado @ Jan 2 2018, 12:25 PM)
yea, he's still active in the forum and i don't think guidelines has changed for the past few years?

of course, anyone else who has insights can share.
*
Standard tapping. An MCB of 20A is for 2 x 13A socket. If just 1 x 13A socket, use 16A MCB. Yes, you can see that 2 x 13A = 26A but an MCB of just 20A is used. This is to assume that you will not load constantly more than 20A on the wire.

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advocado
post Jan 2 2018, 01:28 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Jan 2 2018, 12:57 PM)
Aircon have 3 motor running together. Motor Start running will require 2-3x the actual Amp. (In short time)  Too high exceed the MCB rate will trip the MCB.

I don't understand your RCD explain. How many RCD have in a house ? There is only 1 RCD in the main DB box that supply to all the MCB.
*
normally there should have 2 RCD/RCCB after branching out from the main branch not including RCD for water heater etc.

100mA RCD branch is mainly for lights, Aircon, doorbell.

30mA RCD branch is for power socket, switches.

then for water heater there will have a 10mA RCCB.

30mA is obviously more sensitive than 100mA, but i don't know how they determine why Lights & Doorbell goes under 100mA, both are also connected to switches that user will often come into contact with. maybe the design is for Incandescent in mind (when switched on) and door bell usually requires a quick boost of Amp.

so running AC on 30mA might increase the chance of trip? i'm not sure that is why i asked.



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