Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

12 Pages « < 4 5 6 7 8 > » Bottom

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

> changing and looping new wall socket, help me master

views
     
WahBiang
post Jan 5 2018, 10:20 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
3,718 posts

Joined: Nov 2015
QUOTE(advocado @ Jan 5 2018, 08:46 PM)
but what is being installed i see no gaps between the socket & wall for me to pry open. not sure if it's paint or silicone or something.

what is the best way to pry it open without damaging the wall (or socket frame)?
*
Take ur time and go to electrical shop to see the plug socket there, then u will noe what i mean n how to open it...
SUSadvocado
post Jan 5 2018, 10:24 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
2,948 posts

Joined: Jun 2007
QUOTE(WahBiang @ Jan 5 2018, 10:20 PM)
Take ur time and go to electrical shop to see the plug socket there, then u will noe what i mean n how to open it...
*
i mean i'm looking at the socket, the edges seems seamless to the wall (either it's covered by paint or silicone + paint).

so i'm wondering before i pluck open the front cover, how do i safely remove it from the wall without damaging the wall or the surface cover's edge?
weikee
post Jan 5 2018, 10:56 PM

10k Club
********
All Stars
12,019 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
QUOTE(bcktang @ Jan 5 2018, 09:08 PM)
Sorry, but looking at your questions and questions, I think you are not experienced nor qualified to do it, and may endanger urself, yr house, yr neighbours as well.
Please, get experienced person to do it
*
I second smile.gif
WahBiang
post Jan 6 2018, 12:09 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
3,718 posts

Joined: Nov 2015
QUOTE(advocado @ Jan 5 2018, 10:24 PM)
i mean i'm looking at the socket, the edges seems seamless to the wall (either it's covered by paint or silicone + paint).

so i'm wondering before i pluck open the front cover, how do i safely remove it from the wall without damaging the wall or the surface cover's edge?
*
go take a look then u ll noe...
SUSadvocado
post Jan 6 2018, 12:20 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
2,948 posts

Joined: Jun 2007
QUOTE(WahBiang @ Jan 6 2018, 12:09 AM)
go take a look then u ll noe...
*
looks like i have to chip away the edges before i can even remove the cover. guess i'll get a chisel to do it.
UnknownH
post Jan 6 2018, 04:52 AM

Enthusiast
******
Senior Member
1,437 posts

Joined: Mar 2009
From: ME TO YOU



QUOTE(bcktang @ Jan 5 2018, 09:08 PM)
Sorry, but looking at your questions and questions, I think you are not experienced nor qualified to do it, and may endanger urself, yr house, yr neighbours as well.
Please, get experienced person to do it
*
Fairly agreed with this and strongly agreed on last part(the neighbours). Be considerate and don't threaten others life.

QUOTE(advocado @ Jan 6 2018, 12:20 AM)
looks like i have to chip away the edges before i can even remove the cover. guess i'll get a chisel to do it.
*
Why don't you listen to sifu and have a look by yourself.
SUSadvocado
post Jan 6 2018, 10:53 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
2,948 posts

Joined: Jun 2007
QUOTE(UnknownH @ Jan 6 2018, 04:52 AM)
Fairly agreed with this and strongly agreed on last part(the neighbours). Be considerate and don't threaten others life.
Why don't you listen to sifu and have a look by yourself.
*
hi, i'm looking at it. as you can see in the photo the edges already painted up not sure if silicone has been applied.

i'm asking what is the best way to pry the edges off the wall without damaging the frame & wall before i can pluck off the front casing. small chisel?


Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
fireballs
post Jan 6 2018, 10:57 AM

10101
*******
Senior Member
5,627 posts

Joined: Mar 2012
use penknife to cut the edge paint first, then use testpen to pry from bottom
UnknownH
post Jan 6 2018, 11:38 AM

Enthusiast
******
Senior Member
1,437 posts

Joined: Mar 2009
From: ME TO YOU



QUOTE(advocado @ Jan 6 2018, 10:53 AM)
hi, i'm looking at it. as you can see in the photo the edges already painted up not sure if silicone has been applied.

i'm asking what is the best way to pry the edges off the wall without damaging the frame & wall before i can pluck off the front casing. small chisel?
*
If I were you, I would pry open with mobile phone pryer/knife first. If it doesn't work, maybe with something harder.

ADDED: I'm sure previous poster meant by looking at the one unused/doesn't attached to the wall yet. This will allow a clearer view on the socket and probably give an idea how to pry open it from the wall.

This post has been edited by UnknownH: Jan 6 2018, 08:19 PM
Zot
post Jan 6 2018, 08:07 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
7,592 posts

Joined: Mar 2014
QUOTE(advocado @ Jan 5 2018, 08:21 PM)
hi, so mean ring has 2 2.5mm2 wires going to the sockets? so total conductor diameter is 5mm2? is there a reason the graph draws 1 set of wires going from 1 side and the other set going from the other side instead of both set going on the same route?

Say you have a hall with sockets on wall in front, back, left and right. The wire path would be circled around the walls. This is how ring circuit is laid out.

so a radial is the normal way 1 set of wires from 1 MCB that means only 2.5mm2 conductor?

Yes, with 16A MCB for 1 x 13A socket

if existing socket is using 2.5mm2 cables to 2 sockets from 20A MCB, if i want to loop another 3 13A sockets (for low power usage), would it pose a problem?

As I explained before, it should not though not standard

if i open up a socket that is running on rings, how many wires will i see inside? 2L/2N/2E, or 1L/1N/1E? if i want to add a socket next to that socket, i use x2 2.5mm2 wires for L/N/E or a 4mm2 wire?

You will see 2 x L, 2 x N and 2 x E wires coupled in each socket hole. Adding another socket bt breaking the ring lop will require wires both in and out from each socket hole. Just use the same wire size used in existing ring. However, you can just spur the socket out like in previous diagram. This way you just need to tap wire from any socket and no need a pair of wire for each L, N and E

by looking at the diagram i cannot visualize how it works in a socket.
*
I believe my explanation is clear. Looks like you have minimal experience. Perhaps get service from certified wireman smile.gif
Zot
post Jan 6 2018, 08:13 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
7,592 posts

Joined: Mar 2014
QUOTE(advocado @ Jan 6 2018, 10:53 AM)
hi, i'm looking at it. as you can see in the photo the edges already painted up not sure if silicone has been applied.

i'm asking what is the best way to pry the edges off the wall without damaging the frame & wall before i can pluck off the front casing. small chisel?
*
If you buy same type socket from shop, you will know how it is assembled. The bezel is not glued for sure. That would be dumb. It is press-click to the main socket body. There maybe painted over on the edge but the bezel would be sitting on surface hold by the main socket. You can just scratch a bit to remove the paint along the edge using test pen and pry using test pen on the edge. It will unclick the bezel catches. Probably at most 4 catches.
SUSadvocado
post Jan 6 2018, 09:31 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
2,948 posts

Joined: Jun 2007
QUOTE(Zot @ Jan 6 2018, 08:13 PM)
If you buy same type socket from shop, you will know how it is assembled. The bezel is not glued for sure. That would be dumb. It is press-click to the main socket body. There maybe painted over on the edge but the bezel would be sitting on surface hold by the main socket. You can just scratch a bit to remove the paint along the edge using test pen and pry using test pen on the edge. It will unclick the bezel catches. Probably at most 4 catches.
*
for looping a socket from an existing. someone mention the only way to do it is pull a wire from new socket's L/N/E directly to the existing socket's L/N/E.

say for example i'm running a set of 4mm2 wires to 2 13A sockets A & B, if the wires are connected to A & i simply connect L/N/E from B to A, won't that mean if socket A & B are both used, despite the 4mm2 wires can withstand higher current and both sockets not exceeding 13A each, wouldn't socket A be subject to higher load since the current required by both A & B will run pass A 1st before going to B so A will be subject to more heat?

is there any reason we can't disconnect existing wire from existing socket, and pull 2 sets of wire from existing & new socket and connect back to the existing wire? this way socket A won't be subject to the load for both sockets & would generate less heat?

This post has been edited by advocado: Jan 6 2018, 09:32 PM
Zot
post Jan 6 2018, 11:21 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
7,592 posts

Joined: Mar 2014
QUOTE(advocado @ Jan 6 2018, 09:31 PM)
for looping a socket from an existing. someone mention the only way to do it is pull a wire from new socket's L/N/E directly to the existing socket's L/N/E.

say for example i'm running a set of 4mm2 wires to 2 13A sockets A & B, if the wires are connected to A & i simply connect L/N/E from B to A, won't that mean if socket A & B are both used, despite the 4mm2 wires can withstand higher current and both sockets not exceeding 13A each, wouldn't socket A be subject to higher load since the current required by both A & B will run pass A 1st before going to B so A will be subject to more heat?

is there any reason we can't disconnect existing wire from existing socket, and pull 2 sets of wire from existing & new socket and connect back to the existing wire? this way socket A won't be subject to the load for both sockets & would generate less heat?
*
You can connect anyway you like. Sockets side by side will not make any difference.

Does not matter on load. The 4mm wire can carry more than 20A. If too much current on all socket, the MCB will trip first before anything happened to wires to sockets. Just don't put MCB rating higher than wire can handle
SUSadvocado
post Jan 6 2018, 11:30 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
2,948 posts

Joined: Jun 2007
QUOTE(Zot @ Jan 6 2018, 11:21 PM)
You can connect anyway you like. Sockets side by side will not make any difference.

Does not matter on load. The 4mm wire can carry more than 20A. If too much current on all socket, the MCB will trip first before anything happened to wires to sockets. Just don't put MCB rating higher than wire can handle
*
hi, i know 4mm wire can take up to 27A, but the sockets are designed for 13A and if i use a 20A MCB it will only trip when current exceeds 20A.

if i connect using the 1st method B socket tap into A, say i have both sockets running, say socket A is using 8A, socket B is using 11A, so total current that will "Transit" at socket A would be 19A. so Socket A will run hotter than Socket B, and since Socket A is designed with 13A in mind, would this scenario cause more stress especially heat on Socket A?

comparing to method B wire split to socket A & B from the existing wires, the currents required for each socket goes tru their respective socket, so socket A will have 8A running pass it and B will have 11A running pass it, and both sockets will operate within the designed current.

my other question is for method B, what type of connection method is suitable for connecting wires of A & B to existing? Block connectors aren't suitable for high current usage as the plastic & metal pieces aren't so durable. do we use those plastic cap and twist all 3 wires together and make a U-Shape and insert into the cap?
weikee
post Jan 6 2018, 11:41 PM

10k Club
********
All Stars
12,019 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From your question, you either don't understand how to loop to another socket or don't understand electric work. My Advice, get someone experience to do.
ceo684
post Jan 6 2018, 11:55 PM

Component Burner
********
All Stars
11,545 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Klang/Subang



QUOTE(advocado @ Jan 6 2018, 11:30 PM)
hi, i know 4mm wire can take up to 27A, but the sockets are designed for 13A and if i use a 20A MCB it will only trip when current exceeds 20A.

if i connect using the 1st method B socket tap into A, say i have both sockets running, say socket A is using 8A, socket B is using 11A, so total current that will "Transit" at socket A would be 19A. so Socket A will run hotter than Socket B, and since Socket A is designed with 13A in mind, would this scenario cause more stress especially heat on Socket A?

comparing to method B wire split to socket A & B from the existing wires, the currents required for each socket goes tru their respective socket, so socket A will have 8A running pass it and B will have 11A running pass it, and both sockets will operate within the designed current.

my other question is for method B, what type of connection method is suitable for connecting wires of A & B to existing? Block connectors aren't suitable for high current usage as the plastic & metal pieces aren't so durable. do we use those plastic cap and twist all 3 wires together and make a U-Shape and insert into the cap?
*
Based on my diagram - Socket A with no load will not heat up when socket B is in use. However both sockets' combined load still goes to one MCB so the MCB will limit the total current on both sockets to 20A only.
Attached Image

For normal load (ie no high power stuff) you can branch out another socket (socket B) from existing (socket A) - by twisting the two wires together and screwing them into the holes in socket A's connectors. As per the exploded view:
Attached Image



Block connectors are NOT used in this scenario.

This post has been edited by ceo684: Jan 7 2018, 12:09 AM
ceo684
post Jan 6 2018, 11:57 PM

Component Burner
********
All Stars
11,545 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Klang/Subang



QUOTE(weikee @ Jan 6 2018, 11:41 PM)
From your question, you either don't understand how to loop to another socket or don't understand electric work. My Advice, get someone experience to do.
*
I second that as well.
weikee
post Jan 7 2018, 08:32 AM

10k Club
********
All Stars
12,019 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
QUOTE(ceo684 @ Jan 6 2018, 11:55 PM)
Based on my diagram - Socket A with no load will not heat up when socket B is in use. However both sockets' combined load still goes to one MCB so the MCB will limit the total current on both sockets to 20A only.
Attached Image

For normal load (ie no high power stuff) you can branch out another socket (socket B) from existing (socket A) - by twisting the two wires together and screwing them into the holes in socket A's connectors. As per the exploded view:
Attached Image
Block connectors are NOT used in this scenario.
*
More questions will be asked biggrin.gif
SUSadvocado
post Jan 7 2018, 09:01 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
2,948 posts

Joined: Jun 2007
QUOTE(ceo684 @ Jan 6 2018, 11:55 PM)
Based on my diagram - Socket A with no load will not heat up when socket B is in use. However both sockets' combined load still goes to one MCB so the MCB will limit the total current on both sockets to 20A only.
Attached Image

For normal load (ie no high power stuff) you can branch out another socket (socket B) from existing (socket A) - by twisting the two wires together and screwing them into the holes in socket A's connectors. As per the exploded view:
Attached Image
Block connectors are NOT used in this scenario.
*
very clear cut. the socket you showed has no connection for earth right?
ceo684
post Jan 7 2018, 02:39 PM

Component Burner
********
All Stars
11,545 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Klang/Subang



QUOTE(advocado @ Jan 7 2018, 09:01 AM)
very clear cut. the socket you showed has no connection for earth right?
*
The socket that I showed happens to have two earth connection points, also installed similar manner to L and N wires, just that for brevity I didn't put it in.
Attached Image

Suggest you open up and understand how they connect the old-style heavy duty extension sockets to understand better if you haven't dissected one before.
Attached Image

Note the difference between that and cheapo extension sockets which are running on a "commonrail" single copper bars for all sockets (which won't show you how to connect multi-sockets). The cheapo type below is suitable for low power stuff such as phone chargers, laptop charger only as their quality sucks (intermittent connection inside the socket, switch quality (off already - the neon light still on and power still flows).
You'll probably guess why people still use this type instead of the old style one - cost and labour saving:
a) cost = for 4-gang, this costs only RM8 excluding wire and plug. the old school one costs RM26 excluding wire and plug.
b) labour saving = no need to do the wiring for sockets #2-3-4, it is just one connection bao kah liao (like wiring a plug only).
Attached Image

This post has been edited by ceo684: Jan 7 2018, 03:04 PM

12 Pages « < 4 5 6 7 8 > » Top
 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0248sec    0.31    6 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 29th March 2024 - 06:06 PM