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> DIY (smart, energy efficient) house building, another house from scratch. DIY style.

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ozak
post Jun 20 2018, 11:14 AM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Jun 20 2018, 10:50 AM)
Mine is like a faulty bearing sound. only happen after 15-20mins on.
*
The sound might misleading.

I also think the sound is mechanism problem. It really sound like mechanism touching while spinning.

But I try the easy and cheaper way 1st. Since google search mostly said come from the board. It is true. Running for 2yrs till now no problem.
siauann
post Jun 21 2018, 01:54 PM

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QUOTE(paskal @ Nov 28 2014, 07:55 AM)
fuh. it's been 15 pages. and 25,000 views. garnered quite an interest eh?
too bad i'm not earning anything from all the traffic.

all future updates will be relegated to my blog. further documentation on the construction, rainwater system, electrical & plumbing systems, and automation will done at my site to help isolate all the different topics.
serves larger viewership and avoid daily update/posting from irritating other forumers.

as such, this topic will be closed.
*
what is your blog?
-oc-gassa
post Jul 11 2018, 10:03 AM

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From: setapak
QUOTE(paskal @ Jun 19 2018, 04:34 PM)
user posted image
refer to the graph.

this is normal consumption in my house with 3 bedroom airconds running.

once the temperature reaches saturation point, the usage is about A. around 3.3A (759W)
759 watt is fricking low considering there's 3 aircond running that is rated at 900W+ each.

B is when i decide to go out from my study room and go make coffee.
so B is me making coffee.

then you get C which is higher compared to the saturation point at A because the door is opened, compressor has to be run at higher load to reach back saturation temp.
anyway once the set temp is reached. i turned off the AC to check how much it costs to keep the AC at the temp preset.
user posted imageuser posted image
the current goes down from 3.69A to 3.05A.
meaning one of the AC is only using (3.69-3.05) * 230V = 0.64A * 230V = 147W

~150W of power to keep the room temp at 26 degrees after the set temp is reached.
so no, you don't need 8 hours of run time for an inverter AC to save energy.

provided that your AC is installed correctly, and there is absolutely no air inside the AC system which will cause the AC to run at reduced efficiency.

user posted image
this vacuum evacuation process is imperative in ensuring the AC gas line is free from air before the system is charged.
but nobody does it.
*
Bro Paskal.. can attached image via lowyat forum image.. since unable to refer back as the image unviewable sad.gif ... thx for the details info nod.gif .. really like this kind specifi cost to cost info which hardly shared thumbup.gif
TSpaskal
post Jul 22 2018, 08:26 AM

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the house has a tank monitoring system.
to monitor all the 4 tonnes of tapwater i have stored inside the roof structure.

i do have 4000 liters stored in there.
which is really cumbersome to go and check how much capacity is in there.
and i don't wanna run an always on auto pump from the bottom tank to the ceiling tank. implementation (site) constraint. but more on that some other day.

user posted image
this is what a normal, daily low water consumption looks like.
the ground pump turns on every now and then and the tank capacity goes up.
us using the water will reduce the percentage (duh).
so it'll be reflected when most of the water will be used (morning >6am and evening around 5.30pm-7pm)

earlier this week (monday) i got a ping by the system that water capacity goes below 70% even with the ground tank pumping as usual.

user posted image
user posted image

quick check through the system shows the water level being pumped in, then slowly reduce.
nope, not normal.

looks like a leak.
somewhere.
TSpaskal
post Jul 22 2018, 08:40 AM

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found the leak coming from the irrigation system.
the solenoid valve controlling the irrigation system keeps turning on.
the microcontroller decides to go haywire, not grounding the GPIO pin properly causing the darlington pair that does the high voltage switching to receive floated signal, giving the valve 7V (out of 12), hence turning the valve partially and leaking water.

reflashed the controller with new firmware.
inserted pull down resistor to the GPIO to force ground the line with no signal.
and reprogrammed the logic.

this is how it looks now.
user posted image
flatline during the wee hours. suggesting that there's no leak to the system.

user posted image
A - ground level pump.
then flatline.
B - another ground level pump. after 3 hours of sedimentation.
C - irrigation system being turned on. 5 minutes cycle.
D - kids taking a bath for school. because sunday is a school day in kedah.
E - another irrigation watering cycle. 5 minutes cycle.

user posted image

and being informed by the system.
user posted image

Two5Kid
post Jul 22 2018, 03:54 PM

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Seems like your water tank always hovering around 80% and above capacity, any reason why do you need the continuous monitoring? Even when kids shower, it doesn't drop below 50%.

But nevertheless, an impressive job to put all these into use.
TSpaskal
post Jul 22 2018, 09:59 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Jun 20 2018, 09:14 AM)
How does the whinning sound like ?

My KDK 4 blades sound like tuk, tuk tuk. Some mechanism touch while spinning. And a start up whinning sound too.

I change the capacitor in the board. All the sound gone. I have post in the ceiling fan side.
*
whining.
like wing wing wing wing screeching sound.
swapping the PCB with a silent unit doesn't solve it.

QUOTE(enduser @ Jun 20 2018, 10:26 AM)
Got planning to installed solar panel at roof or nearby ur house smile.gif
*
too expensive.
already have a 200w panel bought for past students project. now collecting dust.
planning to integrate that to supplement running cost for the house management system, maybe later.

needs solar MPPT charging circuit. only read about it briefly, needs a circuit prototype to test.
TSpaskal
post Jul 22 2018, 10:11 PM

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QUOTE(siauann @ Jun 21 2018, 01:54 PM)
what is your blog?
*
not maintained.
now domain suspended i only maintain the hosting.

QUOTE(-oc-gassa @ Jul 11 2018, 10:03 AM)
Bro Paskal.. can attached image via lowyat forum image.. since unable to refer back as the image unviewable  sad.gif ... thx for the details info  nod.gif .. really like this kind specifi cost to cost info which hardly shared  thumbup.gif
*
sorry but hard to attach images to post using lowyat image hosting.
furthermore i need to access it from somewhere else. hard to maintain if using lyn hosting.

QUOTE(Two5Kid @ Jul 22 2018, 03:54 PM)
Seems like your water tank always hovering around 80% and above capacity, any reason why do you need the continuous monitoring? Even when kids shower, it doesn't drop below 50%.

But nevertheless, an impressive job to put all these into use.
*
cos the water supply in the area is really problematic.
it's a rural area. with incoming water pressure hovering around 0.1-0.2 bar. sometimes during the day i have 0 bar incoming pressure in the pipe. i've measured. even logged the pressure using a sensor.
wee hours can see water pressure going up to 0.5 bar.
and nearly every month can expect to see at least 1 day no incoming water.

i've tried straight waterpump pulling direct from incoming pipe to ceiling reservoir.
got stuck with air pockets.

tried timer to turn waterpump only after midnight and stop at 4am.
still got stuck with air pockets already in the pipes.

tried timer for 15 minutes then off 45 minutes cycle.
still doesn't solve the air pockets issue.
auto air release valve is expensive. and doesn't solve the dirt in the incoming water.
TSpaskal
post Jul 22 2018, 10:44 PM

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don't feel like doing work tonight.
so i'll write a bit.

problems:
1. incoming water pressure is really low. most of the time less than 0.2 bar.
2. lots of air pockets inside the incoming water pipe. because (nearly) everyone in this village is directly attaching booster pump to their incoming line, right after meter. causing air pockets to form from any leak within the supply line.
3. dirt in the incoming line. water filter gets really dirty, really fast.
4. lots of unscheduled water disruption. could last for days. usually happen during festive season. last raya 3 days no water. SADA says too much demand, existing supply can't cope. this happens really frequent.
5. goddam people using booster pump. water could reverse flow, back into the pipes. bet you never seen that at your place.
6. lots of sediment in the incoming water. causing filters to get really dirty really fast.

tried all sorts of solution.
none works reliably over time. main problem is the air pockets, causing pumps to dry run.
best solution that i could think of is using a sedimentation tank.
let the water fill by itself. then let it sit and allow the dirt to settle at the bottom.
then after a while, pump it to the ceiling reservoir.

solves the incoming water disruption monitoring and air pockets without an electronic control.
so lets do that.

user posted image
i'm using this 30 gallon blue tank as a sedimentation tank.
after letting the water sit, pump it to a sand filter, then through a PP sediment filter to remove any leftover dirt.

(1st try)
user posted image
A. float switch to detect water level.
B. flow sensor to detect outgoing flow from the tank.
user posted image
TSpaskal
post Jul 22 2018, 10:51 PM

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1st iteration running.
user posted image
got a bypass switch installed.
got an RCB installed to detect leakage.
and the relay control is using these electrodragon wifi relay.

user posted image

keeps rebooting with pump switching off. the internal SMPS has a problem with inductance load.
not a really good device.

the system also has a problem with incoming water. if the flexible pipe bends too much the pump will vacuum too much causing the pipe to contract, blocking it from sucking water.
TSpaskal
post Jul 22 2018, 10:59 PM

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2nd iteration.
user posted image
moved the outgoing line to the bottom. internal pressure from the filled water should provide some initial pressure to kickstart the pumping and avoid air from getting inside the outgoing line.

user posted image
user posted image

using the bottom feed line also allows the system to run without needing me to monitor the flow. becos there's no air. so no dry run.
but still has to consider what will happen if the float switch doesn't work and the pump sucks till empty.

so i've implemented a stop signal after 10 minutes regardless of float signal.
from test run, the tank should be empty after around 5 minutes of pumping.
ozak
post Jul 22 2018, 11:08 PM

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QUOTE(paskal @ Jul 22 2018, 10:59 PM)
2nd iteration.
user posted image
moved the outgoing line to the bottom. internal pressure from the filled water should provide some initial pressure to kickstart the pumping and avoid air from getting inside the outgoing line.

user posted image
user posted image

using the bottom feed line also allows the system to run without needing me to monitor the flow. becos there's no air. so no dry run.
but still has to consider what will happen if the float switch doesn't work and the pump sucks till empty.

so i've implemented a stop signal after 10 minutes regardless of float signal.
from test run, the tank should be empty after around 5 minutes of pumping.
*
You can run the whole system automatic from the sediment tank till the ceiling tank. Without need to monitoring.

Use electrical system rather electronic to control for more reliable and less failure run. (mostly is only sensor/switch fail)
TSpaskal
post Jul 22 2018, 11:14 PM

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From: Darul Aman
user posted image

the pump control has a simple control logic to it.

settling time is variable according to the ceiling reservoir capacity.
>90% - 4 hours of settling time.
>80% - 3 hours
>70% - 2 hours
>60% - 10 minutes
(target daily capacity to be at least 80% in case there's a long water disruption)

the reservoir tank will send its current capacity to the waterpump.
if there's still lots of water, the waterpump will let the incoming water to settle for longer periods of time.
if there's no capacity information received from the reservoir tank, the waterpump will default to 1 hour of settling time.

data is transmitted wirelessly.
updated every minute from the tank to the waterpump.
so yeah, that's why continuous monitoring is required.

also the irrigation system will reduce the cycle count to half if it's below 40%.
and stop the irrigation cycle if the tank cap drops below 25%.

bypass-able of course. control command can be sent to force cycle.
TSpaskal
post Jul 22 2018, 11:28 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Jul 22 2018, 11:08 PM)
You can run the whole system automatic from the sediment tank till the ceiling tank. Without need to monitoring.

Use electrical system rather electronic to control for more reliable and less failure  run. (mostly is only sensor/switch fail)
*
i disagree.
even simple control mechanism is gonna be hard to implement using purely electrical system.

like how do you set the settling time to run the pump for 10 minutes, after the tank is left to settle for 1 hour?
considering if it takes 2 hour to fill the tanks after the last run?

10 am pump run.
10.10am pump stops. tank empty.
12.10pm tank full.
1.10pm pump run
1.20pm pump stop. tank empty.
ozak
post Jul 22 2018, 11:52 PM

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QUOTE(paskal @ Jul 22 2018, 11:28 PM)
i disagree.
even simple control mechanism is gonna be hard to implement using purely electrical system.

like how do you set the settling time to run the pump for 10 minutes, after the tank is left to settle for 1 hour?
considering if it takes 2 hour to fill the tanks after the last run?

10 am pump run.
10.10am pump stops. tank empty.
12.10pm tank full.
1.10pm pump run
1.20pm pump stop. tank empty.
*
Don't use timer. It is not accurate running and require frequent adjust. Cause the pump flow amount is not constant.

The whole system depend on switch/sensor to detect the level to run/stop the pump.

Use electric logic to wired it. It is the most fail safe system to run. And best for outdoor.


TSpaskal
post Jul 23 2018, 12:13 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Jul 22 2018, 11:52 PM)
Don't use timer. It is not accurate running and require frequent adjust. Cause the pump flow amount is not constant.

The whole system depend on switch/sensor to detect the level to run/stop the pump.

Use electric logic to wired it. It is the most fail safe system to run. And best for outdoor.
*
you don't make sense.
the sedimentation tank requires settling time to allow sludge deposit.

either that or construct a large, slow flow sedimentation tank used at water treatment plants.
how to allow enough time for deposit if no timer is involved?
ozak
post Jul 23 2018, 03:13 PM

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QUOTE(paskal @ Jul 23 2018, 12:13 AM)
you don't make sense.
the sedimentation tank requires settling time to allow sludge deposit.

either that or construct a large, slow flow sedimentation tank used at water treatment plants.
how to allow enough time for deposit if no timer is involved?
*
Can la.

Let sturdy your case. Problem summarize list.

1) i do have 4000 liters stored in there.
which is really cumbersome to go and check how much capacity is in there.

2) cos the water supply in the area is really problematic.
it's a rural area. with incoming water pressure hovering around 0.1-0.2 bar. sometimes during the day i have 0 bar incoming pressure in the pipe. i've measured. even logged the pressure using a sensor.
wee hours can see water pressure going up to 0.5 bar.
and nearly every month can expect to see at least 1 day no incoming water.

3) lots of air pockets inside the incoming water pipe. because (nearly) everyone in this village is directly attaching booster pump to their incoming line, right after meter. causing air pockets to form from any leak within the supply line.

4) dirt in the incoming line. water filter gets really dirty, really fast. (sendiment)

5) lots of unscheduled water disruption. could last for days. usually happen during festive season. last raya 3 days no water. SADA says too much demand, existing supply can't cope. this happens really frequent. (That related to 1) 4000L stored)


Something like this ? Sorry for the bad draw.

user posted image

1) 1st tank is received the inlet water. Ball valve to control the water level. Funnel pipe to received the water flow down the bottom level. Also to control the sediment stirring around. Bottom valve for cleaning the sediment. Outlet pipe level lower abit than the ball valve open flow level. Pressure regulate is a cap over the pipe but not seal it. It is to regulate the pressure inside while not let the bug go in.

2) 2nd tank to received the 1st tank water that reduce the sediment. Water is calmer here where might sediment still present. Outlet pipe same level as 1st tank or lower (maybe). Pressure regulate pipe ontop. Drain valve below.

3) 3rd tank might not necessary need. Depend how bad is the sediment. Level switch (Or floating switch) install to ON/OFF the pump. Set the pipe and floating switch how much the water amount need it to pump each cycle. Pressure regulate pipe ontop. Drain valve below.

4) Water filter placing before the pump will help the pump lifespan longer. Also filter doesn't constant in high pressure with possible leak. ( I not sure this tank type filter construction inside. Might be good at after pump ?)

5) Pump built in pressure switch. When the ceiling tank is full by the ball valve shut, pressure built up in the pipe. Pressure switch sense the pressure and stop the pump. Once the ball valve open, water flow and pressure drop, pump start to run back. Check valve is to prevent the water back flow. Also lock the water inside the pump not to have air pocket. Flow switch is an additional safety switch incase the pump run dry. It will shut off the pump incertain set time.

6) Rooftop tank with ball valve. Pipe place below tank with valve to transfer water to another tank. Water level will be same across all the tank. Use the last tank for all the outlet. (no stall water and very clean water) Bypass pipe to outlet pipe from others tank with valve incase tank cleaning. Float mechanism water level install from the tank till inside house. (wall placing) Instant know direct water level. Everybody easy to read and understand. (well, you can integrate some smart read if want)

For electrical control logic, I comeout later if this system is ok to you. I m rusty with electric logic. sweat.gif
TSpaskal
post Jul 24 2018, 07:39 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Jul 23 2018, 03:13 PM)
Can la.

Let sturdy your case. Problem summarize list.

1) i do have 4000 liters stored in there.
which is really cumbersome to go and check how much capacity is in there.

2) cos the water supply in the area is really problematic.
it's a rural area. with incoming water pressure hovering around 0.1-0.2 bar. sometimes during the day i have 0 bar incoming pressure in the pipe. i've measured. even logged the pressure using a sensor.
wee hours can see water pressure going up to 0.5 bar.
and nearly every month can expect to see at least 1 day no incoming water.

3) lots of air pockets inside the incoming water pipe. because (nearly) everyone in this village is directly attaching booster pump to their incoming line, right after meter. causing air pockets to form from any leak within the supply line.

4) dirt in the incoming line. water filter gets really dirty, really fast. (sendiment)

5) lots of unscheduled water disruption. could last for days. usually happen during festive season. last raya 3 days no water. SADA says too much demand, existing supply can't cope. this happens really frequent. (That related to 1) 4000L stored)
Something like this ? Sorry for the bad draw.

user posted image

1) 1st tank is received the inlet water. Ball valve to control the water level. Funnel pipe to received the water flow down the bottom level. Also to control the sediment stirring around. Bottom valve for cleaning the sediment. Outlet pipe level lower abit than the ball valve open flow level. Pressure regulate is a cap over the pipe but not seal it. It is to regulate the pressure inside while not let the bug go in.

2) 2nd tank to received the 1st tank water that reduce the sediment. Water is calmer here where might sediment still present. Outlet pipe same level as 1st tank or lower (maybe). Pressure regulate pipe ontop. Drain valve below.

3) 3rd tank might not necessary need. Depend how bad is the sediment. Level switch (Or floating switch) install to ON/OFF the pump. Set the pipe and floating switch how much the water amount need it to pump each cycle. Pressure regulate pipe ontop. Drain valve below.

4) Water filter placing before the pump will help the pump lifespan longer. Also filter doesn't constant in high pressure with possible leak. ( I not sure this tank type filter construction inside. Might be good at after pump ?)

5) Pump built in pressure switch. When the ceiling tank is full by the ball valve shut, pressure built up in the pipe. Pressure switch sense the pressure and stop the pump. Once the ball valve open, water flow and pressure drop, pump start to run back. Check valve is to prevent the water back flow. Also lock the water inside the pump not to have air pocket. Flow switch is an additional safety switch incase the pump run dry. It will shut off the pump incertain set time.

6) Rooftop tank with ball valve. Pipe place below tank with valve to transfer water to another tank. Water level will be same across all the tank. Use the last tank for all the outlet. (no stall water and very clean water) Bypass pipe to outlet pipe from others tank with valve incase tank cleaning. Float mechanism water level install from the tank till inside house. (wall placing) Instant know direct water level. Everybody easy to read and understand. (well, you can integrate some smart read if want)

For electrical control logic, I comeout later if this system is ok to you. I m rusty with electric logic. sweat.gif
*
thanks for the suggestion.
but requires the use of multiple tanks. prefer to reduce the number of tanks that i have exposed and can be seen.
TSpaskal
post Jul 24 2018, 07:46 AM

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data is collected from multiple nodes.
environment data that i'm interested with is temperature. which will be used later by other (planned) systems.

candidate sensors that was considered for this usage is the ds18b20, lm35, ntc, etc etc.
but the cheapest, simple interfacing, doesn't require external circuit and pre-calibrated response is the bmp280.

1st interation:
user posted image
user posted image
user posted image
TSpaskal
post Jul 24 2018, 07:57 AM

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2nd iteration:
* integrated an sql database (sqlite3) to the system since the chart display node has a problem displaying huge number of points. gets unstable.
* upside to the sql database is that i have all the past historical record of all the data being received by the system.
* downside to that is constant writes to the sdcard.
* and downside to that is that the sdcard gets corrupted over time causing system wreck not able to boot properly, missing files nodes yada yada.

inb4 use a hdd/usb platter driver.
inb4 then i have to configure the CCTV server to store files from the pi. it's now an isolated, dedicated system and i intend to keep it that way. thanks.

user posted image
user posted image


user posted image
user posted image

since the system could cope and store and display more data, i also send, store, and log system uptime, rssi and system load from the nodes.
because, why not?
user posted image
user posted image

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