From your location and place, it is a large flat padi field area. With occasionally 1-2 small hill like granite. I use to travel there. More toward to perlis.

It is a very hot place. And you have to endure the burning crops of land and field twice or thrice a yrs. I guess you have to look at the ventilation seriously.

The ventilation have to separate into 2. The roof ventilation and the in house ventilation. If you seal off the roof, the air inside will heat up and no place to go. I m not sure insulate your ceiling will help. Will the heat slowly travel down to the ceiling through conducting. Since the heat no where to go.

For the in house air flow, as usual, hot air rise and in/out airflow have to consider.

For the ventilation, I have plan it on my drawing board for a while now. Initially this is how it look from the side for what I have plan on my house. Maybe something you can pick up here from my stupid plan.



Behind below hatching is a concrete slab. While the roof is front side. Most of the wind is from front side of the house. So I create an air flow for the roof from front and vent out at behind cover with aluminium lourve. The shade rain will help shelve the rain storm. Actually it doesn't really need that shade also. As the lower side is a hot air vent out area. Which is a toilet.

The roof vent is taking care. Now the in house. The hot air raise and air flow will flow up top through the toilet and vent out at the same lourve. I m using the air spray/jet flow theory. If there is an air flow in the roof, it create a vacuum at the hot air vent. That will force the hot air out from inside the house. A + point additional beside the normal hot air out.

Create a middle concrete slab but shade a way by the roof can help reduce the rain storm getting in. You also have a space for water tank and an outdoor aircon unit to place. All this hide away on the roof without damage your exterior house look. Easy maintenance too.

AAC not really expensive. Since it bigger size. I block of AAC equal to few pcs normal brick. I did plan to use AAC for the sun hitting wall side when do reno. It come in few thick dimension. Get the slighty thicker type.

But recently someone wrote here that AAC have some quality issue when it age. It become porous. Try search the infor here.

Beside better insulate, AAC also good for fire retention. It stand better in heat when fire happen. Won't collapse the wall compare normal brick. And you can use it as bearing load wall.

1 thing I not so sure is how good it can hang a load if drill and wall plug in.

This is strange setup. 6 tank of rain water tank? Or 3 tank rain water and 3 tank fresh water tank?

You probably going to have nightmare to do maintenance. 6 tank cleaning, 3 separate place with tight space. Not a good idea.

Suggest you not to use rain water to flush. It is not 'clean'. Unless you treat the water. Your toilet will be full of germ.

You can have separate water inlet to the rain tank. Set the clean water inlet to lower level cut off (the ball). While the rain water inlet cut off higher. This way the clean water topup will never be full and allow the rainwater in.

As suggest by halcyon27, 6" drain hole on the concrete will solve your flood problem.

A simple sediment filter is good enough for whole house clean water. The size would be depend on how many person in your house. Bigger size, last longer.

You don't need a pump if your rain tank water is for toilet. Let the gravity do the job. Do you need fast refill for the WC tank? If you want the water for the outdoor clean which require higher pressure, just install a pump for the outdoor only. That save your pump cost and running cost.

UV can sterilize the water. But as Genielee said, UV light have lifespan. So every yrs you need to change 3pcs light. And you don't no when the light going to spoil. Till you climb up and check. So it not going to be 100% bac free. Don't worried about the algae. As is don't grow in the dark tank. Unless you use the transparent tank. Actually algae is not harmfull.

If you ask me to choose between chlorine and uv treatment, I will choose chlorine. Less and easy maintenance. Since you don't use for drink.

Again I would said, I don't recommend to use rain water for toilet flush. Not a good experience for me.

Just makesure your body size can move around the tank for easy maintenance. If give yourself difficult to maintain, you will be tired after few yrs. 6 tank to maintain, not easy. You going to be busy whole yrs with your house maintain. I understand this cause every yrs, twice I do cleaning on my 2 water tank.

If you using the poly tank, not a problem to make a hole for the ball valve. And it is pretty common to have hole on the wall tank for pipe. Mind is already last for 16yrs under the sun.

The ball valve is pretty easy to install, simple, low cost and maintain free. Compare a complicated electrical control. Try to get a ball valve wheee the material is brass. Hard to find now. But it last freaking long and easy to adjust the ball. You can't bend the plastic for the cheap 1.

The is how the ball valve look like in the tank. The fish is optional.


This post has been edited by ozak: Nov 8 2014, 04:24 PM

I once get infected by the dirty toilet bow. So it is very important to keep the bow clean germ free.

Suppose the toilet bow is clean by flush clean water. But you are using not clean water to flush. The water droplet or the mist will be everywhere around the toilet. Next you sit on the toilet. Where your crotch will be? I guess you know how the germ craw up to your skin.

This is a fresh water. Not even using rain water.

The point is, the harmfull bacterial. How to makesure your toilet bow stay clean from harmfull bacteria. If you insisting of using rain water, just makesure every drop of it is bac free water.

From your implementation, it look like very high cost inorder to use rain water. Your monthly consumption is high for water?

Rm6 only? You talk like serious implementation for a high usage? Thaught your monthly bill like rm50 or rm80.

From your plan, the monthly cost for this rain harvesting is already probably cost rm5. A monthly change filter, uv light depreciate and energy cost. How to keep it low?

It happen many many yrs ago. Not serious. But enough to educate me. It is probably of long holiday back and didn't clean the toilet. After this, did clean the tank and disinfect everything.

Don't worry too much la.

Suggest just go for simple rain harvesting. Net trap-->micron filter-->storage + chlorine injection. If good than expand it to better system. If no good, chop off the pipe and convert to clean water tank.



In my planning design of piping system, I always treat the water as very low consumption and is always the lowest cost in my monthly bill.(Free) I pay RM6 from day 1. And now for 7yrs, totally free. So

1) running an electrical applicance to get a free water is waste to me. Cause electric is expensive than the water.
2) Try best to design the backup piping system, etc using gravity or auto run mechanisms without intervention from human or using electrical parts.

My way of seeing the rain is a free water. If my monthly bill require to pay just to get a free rain water is a waste. A filter change cost RM4, chlorine probably RM0.5 and pump running cost RM0.5. Total up RM5 monthly bill for a free rain water. Why not just pay additional RM5 to syabas to get another 5m cubic of clean water on top of my monthly water bill? No money invest, no maintenance, no worry about bac, syabas happy.

But this is just me who spoilt by the free water thinking. He.....

Current transformer lor.

Don't have any better quality from the west ?

Somehow, you need to calibrate it and fine tune the prg for each sensor install.

Unless the sensor can be tune.

How does the whinning sound like ?

My KDK 4 blades sound like tuk, tuk tuk. Some mechanism touch while spinning. And a start up whinning sound too.

I change the capacitor in the board. All the sound gone. I have post in the ceiling fan side.

The sound might misleading.

I also think the sound is mechanism problem. It really sound like mechanism touching while spinning.

But I try the easy and cheaper way 1st. Since google search mostly said come from the board. It is true. Running for 2yrs till now no problem.

You can run the whole system automatic from the sediment tank till the ceiling tank. Without need to monitoring.

Use electrical system rather electronic to control for more reliable and less failure run. (mostly is only sensor/switch fail)

Don't use timer. It is not accurate running and require frequent adjust. Cause the pump flow amount is not constant.

The whole system depend on switch/sensor to detect the level to run/stop the pump.

Use electric logic to wired it. It is the most fail safe system to run. And best for outdoor.

Can la.

Let sturdy your case. Problem summarize list.

1) i do have 4000 liters stored in there.
which is really cumbersome to go and check how much capacity is in there.

2) cos the water supply in the area is really problematic.
it's a rural area. with incoming water pressure hovering around 0.1-0.2 bar. sometimes during the day i have 0 bar incoming pressure in the pipe. i've measured. even logged the pressure using a sensor.
wee hours can see water pressure going up to 0.5 bar.
and nearly every month can expect to see at least 1 day no incoming water.

3) lots of air pockets inside the incoming water pipe. because (nearly) everyone in this village is directly attaching booster pump to their incoming line, right after meter. causing air pockets to form from any leak within the supply line.

4) dirt in the incoming line. water filter gets really dirty, really fast. (sendiment)

5) lots of unscheduled water disruption. could last for days. usually happen during festive season. last raya 3 days no water. SADA says too much demand, existing supply can't cope. this happens really frequent. (That related to 1) 4000L stored)


Something like this ? Sorry for the bad draw.



1) 1st tank is received the inlet water. Ball valve to control the water level. Funnel pipe to received the water flow down the bottom level. Also to control the sediment stirring around. Bottom valve for cleaning the sediment. Outlet pipe level lower abit than the ball valve open flow level. Pressure regulate is a cap over the pipe but not seal it. It is to regulate the pressure inside while not let the bug go in.

2) 2nd tank to received the 1st tank water that reduce the sediment. Water is calmer here where might sediment still present. Outlet pipe same level as 1st tank or lower (maybe). Pressure regulate pipe ontop. Drain valve below.

3) 3rd tank might not necessary need. Depend how bad is the sediment. Level switch (Or floating switch) install to ON/OFF the pump. Set the pipe and floating switch how much the water amount need it to pump each cycle. Pressure regulate pipe ontop. Drain valve below.

4) Water filter placing before the pump will help the pump lifespan longer. Also filter doesn't constant in high pressure with possible leak. ( I not sure this tank type filter construction inside. Might be good at after pump ?)

5) Pump built in pressure switch. When the ceiling tank is full by the ball valve shut, pressure built up in the pipe. Pressure switch sense the pressure and stop the pump. Once the ball valve open, water flow and pressure drop, pump start to run back. Check valve is to prevent the water back flow. Also lock the water inside the pump not to have air pocket. Flow switch is an additional safety switch incase the pump run dry. It will shut off the pump incertain set time.

6) Rooftop tank with ball valve. Pipe place below tank with valve to transfer water to another tank. Water level will be same across all the tank. Use the last tank for all the outlet. (no stall water and very clean water) Bypass pipe to outlet pipe from others tank with valve incase tank cleaning. Float mechanism water level install from the tank till inside house. (wall placing) Instant know direct water level. Everybody easy to read and understand. (well, you can integrate some smart read if want)

For electrical control logic, I comeout later if this system is ok to you. I m rusty with electric logic.

Ok.

Anyway I already design the electric logic. Just post here.



For pump run,
1) Pressure switch high (PS) --> Pump off. (Ball valve top tank close)
2) Pressure switch low --> Pump on (Ball valve top tank open)
3) Floating Swicth high (FS) --> Pump on (Receiving tank water level high)
4) Floating Switch low --> Pump off (Receiving tank water level low)

Logic,
1) If PS high and FS high --> Pump off
2) If PS low and FS low --> Pump off
3) If PS high and FS low --> Pump off
4) If PS low and FS high --> Pump on

1) Entire system run in auto with 2 switch to detect water pressure and level. All switch at the pump side and receiving tank. No switch or any electrical ontop ceiling tank for easy maintenance and problem solving. Pump run in interval depend on water refill time and margin level set for the floating switch.

2) Indicator light for full, low level and pump error can be wired to indoor if require.

3) Timer (T) is to delay in sec for stabilize switch signal receiving. Timer (T1) is to delay in 10 over sec for flow detect error. (Incase the pump priming). Both can be adjustable timing.

4) Overload relay (TR) is to protect the motor pump incase run dry and hot. It is self reset.

5) Magnetic Contactor (MC) is for pump.

6) Last minute add on the Manual Over Ride Switch. For maintenance and priming of water pump.

The electrical logic are not perfect as it lack on safety prevention. It can be add in and modify.

If you know how to wiring, the circuit is consider easy and simple.

Sure of course you can put it into logic program with PIC, PLC or arduino. No problem at all. It take away 60% of the wiring. And easy modify the circuit anytime.

I m rusty with such circuit design. But fun to do once a while to recycle back my mind. Complicated wan, I move to PLC or arduino.

For running a pump at 1hp, I will not use the onboard relay to do switching. With the rapid interval switching cycle perday, that short life the relay. I will move it into motor relay or magnetic contactor with thermal relay (TR) as protection.

For outdoor use and box placing, I will not use 240v for contact control. For the micro controller is fine. But dealing with water and outdoor, I will place the switch, button and light into smaller DC volt.