Recently a camera shop assistant told me some recent local movies shown in the cinema was shoot by DSLR that cost just around RM10K, a CANON.

Is it true ? If DSLR can shoot movies, who still buy the video cam ? Can anyone advise their pros and cons ?

I read some websites but undecided. Can any experts here give me some advise ?.

I am inclined for the DSLR too as it is more handy to travel compared with the video cam but I will not want to miss something that the DSLR cannot do which the video cam can.

In what way can a video cam better than the DSLR ?

I am looking for something that can shoot cinema quality movies but don't break the bank.

This post has been edited by simpletraveler: Apr 28 2014, 01:36 AM

Canon 700D, Canon 5D Mark 3, Panasonic GH3/GH4

A lot of short film makers do use DSLRs. But don't let that fool you into thinking that you're going to shoot Speilberg quality film once you get you DSLR. There's a ton of skills, techniques other equipments, stage set, talents and let's not forget post production editing.

If you watch wedding videos with cinematic looks a lot of them are done by DSLRs now days.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulRoNa8U8y0

This "Gun Fu" by Just kidding Films was done by DSLRs. You can see them using DSLRs at the behind the scenes video.

This post has been edited by Rice_Owl84: Apr 25 2014, 04:13 PM

Yes that is true, but there's a lot of difference between your average local movie and your average hollywood blockbuster. This is what they use for just one scene in one episode of a tv series :



This post has been edited by wodenus: Apr 25 2014, 04:17 PM

Hello,

I am also looking to buy a camera. Is any of this good enough for shooting a movie ? I know there are a lot of other work like talents, post production etc but is this models good enough or shall I go for something better ?

I know a good movie also depends alot on the other departments. I am advised to get a camera to try some short films first but I cannot decide too which model to go for, any advise ?

Dslr purely an entry level kind of film making tool and you need high end post production tool or rather expertise to make it look like hollywood type of quality.
Dedicated colour grading system,avid editing software and autodesk visual effects machine.Adobe AE is usually use as artwork or graphic support rather than something that you want to finish your project on in big post-production facility.
Cinema lenses also day and night different in terms of handling and quality.
Arri alexa is price at usd80k while 5dmk3 is at usd3k.Canon 50mm L 1.2 cost usd2k while Arri Ultra Prime 50mm t1.9 cost usd15k.At the end of the day there are 2 different thing altogether.

Meanwhile some movie or tv show does shot on dslr but was using high end post-production services and cinema lenses to get that polished look.Eg-House MD and Act of Valor.

There is a big distinction here between dslr, video cam and professional video cameras.

Dslr vs video cam.
If you just need something good to go and easy to use without investing a lot: get a video cam.

As for amateur, budget or pro film makers.
They either use
1. DSLR
Most amateur will use this. Even jinniboy or Wong fu. But some may go on to the next level. Even videography companies will use this for regular projects /regular clients.

2. Lower end cinema cameras
From canon c500 or red scarlet. They're capable of producing 4k raw video. Post processing is a lot more troublesome. It's fit for MNC advertisement IMO. Most amateur will stay away from this unless they've the manpower and funding like devinsupertramp or freddiewong(even they don't use this frequently)

3. Flagship cinema cameras
Stuff like red epic dragon. Used for transformers 4 by Michael Bay.

Get a dslr or a panasonic GH4
More flexibility than a regular video camera.
I don't think you want to try out cinema cameras yet unless you've a lot of time and money to burn.

To be honest. Sound, camera motion, lighting and techniques/angle plays a far more important role than a slightly shaper image.

It also depends on what type of movie or video you're making.

DSLR works fine for many types of movies, like say love story or drama.

To be blunt the reason for cinema lenses cost so much is not just because of sharper images,it's the consistency of assured characteristic from one focal length to another.A cinematographer or DP as locally refer to,usually order a series of lenses from the same maker and seldom mix and match from different brands to assure color aesthetic,detail rendering and quality is the same throughout the series of lenses he's using on the shoot.He can not afford to have differences in quality from one set-up to another as colour correction/grading is a very expensive proposition.Cinema lenses basically are built to the highest quality to maintain consistency throughout focal series and it will be dxo mark wet dream to review these lenses as CA,barrel distortion,vignette,pretty much non existence.Given the sharpness is the basic requirement but the most important aspect is the consistency and what unique property the series of focal range has to offer.And you can't even buy some of these lenses as they are exclusively only for rental basis like Panavision and only allow to be operated by certified cameraman.

This is one of the guys that I highly admired using 7d + 60d to make this vid and yes DSLR are the standard for the indie filmmaker now.



and yes, Hollywood is not an exception toward this mobility device in places that it needs to be

heres the prove of Marvel Avengers the movie using 7d to shoot on the ground of new york scene


This post has been edited by ComradeZ: Apr 25 2014, 09:20 PM

Is this good quality post production job to be done personally or service available Malaysia ? How.much will it cost ?
What price range of DSLR should I get ?

Thank you. I don't quite understand.

You mean video cam is easier than DSLR to use ? Any other benefits ?
Do you mean DSLR is more popular among ameteur as well as professionas ?

What do you mean by cinema cameras ? Are they using films or digital ?

This post has been edited by simpletraveler: Apr 25 2014, 10:10 PM

I was referring to budget cinema cameras like black magic or canon cinema series. where the obvious advantage is larger resolution, higher dynamic range, sharpness and raw flexibility.

TS will obviously not purchase an Alexa or an Epic with cinema lenses.

Regardless, I do agree with what you mention. Consistency is important as having movie where shots seem so different from one another is not desirable.

Consumer video camera is easy to use in the sense they come with almost everything you need to start shooting.
Eg: autofocus. Better grip. Zoom. Their mic is better than dslr build in mic too.

There are professionals as well as amateurs who use dslr for video. For the price point, they give pretty good quality video and are extremely flexible. The videography market for dslr has matured that you can find a lot of accessories for them too. Not to mention additional custom software for some dslr and mirrorless cameras.

Cinema cameras is a loosely defined term for a camera marketed for digital cinematography.
I am discussing about digital cinema cameras but film still exist and is still widely used by directors in movies today.

First of all you need to manage expectation,local movie post production can gives grand brilliance/metrowealth kind of quality while a lot of movies being finished in thailand.While astro movies mainly done internally in their own facilities.Local high end post production facility usually cater only to local and overseas tvc.To finish a basic 30s spot can start from rm30k while to do colour correction,simple no frill online editing and first master for movie can start at rm150k in thailand.Any higher quality you need to go Australia or Hong Kong.
Making a movie is impossible to do on a solo effort especially on editing as it's no longer about how well you can direct,it's all about understanding how film language shape and forming narration to work in a 2 hour edit unless you are willing to slave over a long period of time like a year or two as there are way too many element to take care.For short film and documentary is easier to do on solo.Although Adobe CS being market as one stop post-production software package but to speed things exponetially with result is using those million dollar autodesk machine.A 30 min rendering effect in Adobe AE can be done in seconds on Autodesk Flame composite program.So you get the idea why is it so costly to finish a movie in post production.And all these facilities charge either by day or hour.

Do check out canon 70D...

For a start, I just plan for drama. Technically may be easier to make. Problem is I don't know which DSLR to select. For example is spending one rm10k compared to rm5k worth double the price ? Will I reallyy get better quality movie ?
Scenry shots are important to me too.

What do you mean by cinema lenses ?
What's the difference with DSLR lenses in terms if picture result ?
How much will Alexa or an Epic cost ?

So a 90 mins feature film can cost up to how much in post production minimum ?
Have you seen the Singapore movie...that sweeps some international awards ? About a kid's relationship with their filipino maid over just a short period. The whole movie look very low budget to me. I don't think they spend much on post production too...but I am no expert. Wonder if anyone can guess on their post production cost.

May I know what is a 7d + 60d means ?

Those are DSLR - Canon EOS models.

Your budget cinema camera does not hold any advantages of dynamic range and sensor quality over Alexa or Epic as both cameras is on another plane altogether.FYI epic can be shot until 6k but Alexa is prefer on my rental list simply because of more organic operation and filmic quality.Red is one temperamental camera to use since Red One days as you won't know what problem might come up.Basically Red products are beta phase tech that needs constant firmware and expensive accesories to make it work.RAW video workflow was introduce back on Red One while Alexa follows with their version while Canon only use it during C300.Canon C500 is just 5d mk3 house in bigger casing that shoots 4k raw but still has that very canon video look to it.The idea is to treat each project differently with looks so you don't end up the same thing over and over again.At a glance with Canon footages you can tell it's Canon.Blackmagic micro 4/3 is still too early as technical quirks and that damn crop factor can be problematic.Useful for tele but bang head on wide angle .x2.3 crop makes it quirky to measure focus distance for focus puller.

On previous post already mention that dslr is altogether a different thing from cinema camera.

ST was asking movie quality and not video quality.

This post has been edited by 6so: Apr 26 2014, 12:54 AM

I was referring to Budget cinema camera advantage over DSLR

Of course the Alexa and Epic is in a whole different category.
Most of us cannot afford to own an Alexa or a Red Epic anyway
Not to mention most videographers in Malaysia wouldn't even require such top of the line system.
It's like comparing local cars with a Bugatti Veyron. It's not even worth comparing because they fit extremely different needs for very different people.

As for Arri over Red,
Most directors in Hollywood prefers Arri over Red
http://reframe.gizmodo.com/these-are-the-c...ilms-1504990016

I believe even Malaysian made movies/TV shows do not use flagship Arri Alexa or Red Dragon cameras.
So that begs the question, what exactly do you shoot that requires you to rent a RM 250k Arri Alexa camera ?
Also, have you actually shot something with the Arri Alexa camera ? If so please do share it here.

This post has been edited by LegendLee: Apr 26 2014, 01:56 AM

Cinema lens are lens build specially for cinematography.
There are some common (but still expensive) and also rare (super expensive) lens.
Difference wise, I believe 6so mentioned it. You get more "consistency" and excellent image quality
As for the cost, let's just say it's expensive that you probably will not consider that unless you've really a whole of money to burn..

A Red Epic Dragon cost about RM 160k while a Arri Alexa is about RM250k
This exclude cinema lenses which will cost another RM 300k or so to cover a few focal range?
Of course there's lighting, jibs etc etc.
So unless you've... hmmm a million to burn ? It's probably not a good choice.

Not to mention these are just equipment. It doesn't make a shitty movie good.
There are so much more to making great video rather than expensive videocamera and lens.

Stick with a DSLR/GH4.
As for which to get, depends on your actual budget.
- Panasonic GH series
- Canon DSLR (For crop you can get 70D, for full frame any of them is good)

As far as I know Singapore budget is even lower than locally produced movie.So I could foresee minimum post-production like 80s era where there's no heavy special effect and barebone quality like grand brilliance type of movie should be around 80k to 100k.Post-production easily needs 2 to 3 months to complete provided you are very firm with your decision,if you are experimental it can goes up to 6 months or more.You can hire freelance editor who can do it on their laptop or come to a facility you provide.There are two stages of editing process.The first one is called offline where you do your first round.Here is where you do a rough cut with no tweak to visual and temporary music track.Upon completing first stage,you do colour correction based solely on offline footages so you don't waste time on all footages you have shot.At the same time offline edit to be given to audio technician for sound effects and final mixing.Music scoring also to be done during this period.When all these completed you do online editing where graded footages being reassembled again with music and final mxing.Visual effects and graphic element also to be done this period.So please don't ask whether you can finish it in days.

During editing you will know whether you have enough footages or make improvements over your initial script narration.There will be a lot of back and forth with editing and if you have financier which you may even need to make changes to suit their request.

Basically you don't want to self produce a movie unless you are really rich hence a lot of time you get into financial aid either by selling movie rights to production companies or profit sharing with investors.Should you manage to put out onto cinema bear in mind that you only gets back 50% ticket sales while tv station might buy from it for few hundreds to 1.5k per airing.If blockbuster you demand higher selling price.It's not as lucrative as you might think.If lucky you can get some further money provided you manage to sell to foreign movie distributor upon completion or selling it based on trailer and behind the scene footage.

Making a feature film is not a lone wolf kind of activity as you need a strong producer to manage budget and production.More importantly strong collaborators that can gives constructive comments and ideas to improve your movie.If you think that if shooting a movie is all about according to script then you are bound to be disappointed as a film director needs to be like a jazz musician where a lot of improvisation and trouble shooting happens on a daily basis.

I produce TV commercials and worrk on feature films here and there.

How about explaining Youtube Productions like JinnyBoyTv or others alike. How are their production costs and how do they make money?

I do hear about MNCs paying low budget freelance videographers to make youtube videos or even tv commercials. Like how would an lone videographer make money if he wants to pursue this as a part time career or even quit his job to do it full time.

Oh, are you based in Malaysia ?
I'm guessing you own or work in a major advertising/film company ?

I do hear that in Hollywood movies generally require that much work... but
How's the production for a regular TV commercial and Malaysian made feature films in comparison to the ones in US ?

I did follow a Mediacorp TV series drama before, definitely doesn't seem like they need that complicated production process.

Lengendlee, 6so & Rice....,

I understand a video camera can shoot longer time than DSLR.....is this a big disadvantage for the DSLR ? How do i overcome this problem if i go for dslr ?

Is movie quality and video quality different ? So is video cam and movie cam two different thing ?
Actually anything more than rm15k (including parts and accessories) is out of my budget for a start. In case if igive it up after trying, it will be a waste. But i hope to get something that i can add up to the system over time without wasting money.

Is Panasonic GH series dslr or video cam ?

So those high end camera can be rented in Malaysia ? How much is the rental cost like ?

This post has been edited by simpletraveler: Apr 26 2014, 11:22 AM

Thank you for such production info...
What do you mean by "grand brilliance type" of movie?
You mean post production cost for a simple movie today will cost 80k to 100k minimum ? Anyway to save on that and yet produce a decent movie if i just depend on good script, acting and well prepared shooting ?

Longer time is not a disadvantage unless you're recording a speech/ceremony for documentation.

Panasonic GH series is a micro4/3 camera widely used for amateur film productions. It's more than capable to hold it's own against some dslr.

Don't blow all your budget on camera and lens.
You will need to spend on tripods, lighting, audio and a good computer system.
And to be honest don't spend all your budget on one go, especially if you're not sure which equipment will be useful.

Panasonic GH series is a top end mirrorless camera. Just think of it as a DSLR but smaller.

Here's how I started out. I got in with a Canon EOS 650D (Entry level DSLR). I do hear great things about Panasonic GH3 that time but that camera is expensive. It doesn’t look well supported when compared to Canon. And as a beginner you look for more support. Support as in lenses, accessories and youtube video guides. I also find there are more Canon 2nd hand stuff as a good price, which when you start getting lots of gears you will appreciate. Also its nice to know the stuff can be sold so you don’t lose everything when you made an impulsive purchase. So you can be more confident to take risk to buy&try and if don’t work out then sell it. And seeing that in the future when I buy a full frame 6D or 5D mk3, I can still use my 650D as secondary camera. Using the same brand gears usually they have the same video format so its easier to mix footages. So that made me more confident that this camera is well worth investing in. Basically Canon has some really good lower end DSLRs like 650D, now replaced by newer models Canon 100D & 700D, that are capable of making very good video. If you can spend a little bit more a 70D would be very nice to have since it’s a highly talked about DSLR for video.

Basically my budget was around RM 10K in total. I spent 2K on a camera. I then spent 6K on lenses (yeah I overkilled here). Then around 2K+ on budget tripods with video heads, steadicams, audio, Rode microphones and other accessories. You’ll be surprised how good and effective budget gears work, but of course you still get what you paid for. And yes I went over my 10K budget and still buying accessories because the list can go on in this area. You really do have to buy good audio recording system too as audio is seen as 50% of your video you can’t go too cheap here.

You will find that it is the lenses and accessories that make the video and not so much the camera body. Right now I’m just treating as an expensive passionate hobby. But if I can make money from it too then great! I haven’t really learnt post production properly yet and slowly learning Adobe Premiere.

You can look up Dave Dugdale on Youtube. He’s my online youtube sifu guide. There is so much to learn.

The question you should be asking is not to make a movie but rather a short film or tele drama kind of thing.Movie production simply a big undertaking that reserve for people who knows what they are doing as anything else is strictly time and money.In my career there will never be a thing that called 'well prepared shooting' as way too many element beyond your control.Weather,gear malfunction,accident,creative clashes with budget/schedule and under performing manpower just happens and you can't do a thing against it but finding a solution.Even in hollywood production shit still happens.
Rather than pondering what camera to buy,it's better to spend your time and effort on film making books to have a clearer understanding.At the end of the day camera just one portion of bigger scheme of things.Having a solid script and talent is not a guarantee thing.The biggest question of all is how to fund a movie?

This post has been edited by 6so: Apr 26 2014, 12:40 PM

Tv series production is a different method altogether as you are on a race to meet dateline and not quality.Everything operates on a formula process.

Post-production system has been this way all this while and haven't change one bit as all profeessional editor and equipment thrive on offline and online system.Even 3d production.When you are doing personal short form you can try skip offline but longform you simply needs these 2 step process to manage schedule,budget and approval from censor board or finacier.You simply don't want to blow all your resources solely on online editing as it will cost more to make changes on finished audio and visual effects later.There's a reason why this system work.

This post has been edited by 6so: Apr 26 2014, 01:48 PM

You mean longer time is not an advantage ? Typo error ?
I just seen the GH, is it rm7k plus ? I am told it's not full frame and less professional compared to mark3, but less bulky,
is it the one ?
Is full frame means better quality ?

No, i dont mean tele drama or short film. I want to make something that can be shown at the cinema.
At least like Blair Whitch Project or those dogma films by Lars Von Trier ?
I will consider the fundings later. I need the basic equipment first to try out first.

True but i need the basic equipment to do some practice together. Otherwise, it's all just theory learning.

If you are directing why on earth would you want to handle camera unless yourself is a dp. Cameraman/dp takes years if not decade of practice to be good at what they are doing.Knowing how to shoot wedding video simply does not make you a good cameraman.A good dp has the ability to give you consistent result of exposure from one scene to another without breaking continuity of storyflow.Even some of the best photographer will break a sweat if you to shoot 50 set-ups maintaining consistent exposure and lighting continuity of different angles while your camera constantly on the move.
Lars Von Trier can be consider those indie darling who has already been actively making movies for decades and all these people came from film school.Even those people who did Blair Witch Project.Local Ho Yuhang was doing casting for years before he got his break at directing.He graduated from overseas film school moreover.Yasmin Ahmad was an accomplished copywriter for decades before he made sepet.All these directors has in depth knowledge of how film language works and most important of all experience..

Thats why i want to learn as much as possible on the camera and equipment, and have some personal experience on it first. Later when i direct, then i decide whether i will be the cameraman or not. At least i understand more even if i need to hire one later.

If i know the character and features of my equipment, i may also be able to script my story or plan a concept according to it.

Btw, can i know what's the cost of hiring a average Malaysian dp for the job ?


This post has been edited by simpletraveler: Apr 26 2014, 10:04 PM

Yeap typo.
There's the GH 3 and GH 4.
GH4 is new (release next month) so the price is still really on the high side.
But I don't think it's RM 7k though. Probably RM 5k-ish

The GH4 can shoot at higher resolution than the mark 3.

Fullframe does not necessary mean better quality.
It's just larger sensor size, which just means different focal lengths calculation on lens.

Comparing the GH3 to the 5D mark 3, the mark 3 is slightly sharper, better dynamic range and better low noise performance.
The GH4 however.... well you've to read some reviews on that as I'm sure in some areas it's even better than the 5D mark 3.

Here's a comparison
http://www.photographybay.com/2014/04/23/v...ii-c100-and-7d/

This post has been edited by LegendLee: Apr 26 2014, 10:32 PM

You are one naive and delusional kid.
If you want to direct your goal is to have a script or product that able to sell and not about what to shoot it on.Budgeting solely a producer responsibility.When you got the money then only you talk about what camera and which dp to use.The decision to hire a dp or what camera is not even for you to make as that is a producer call.Film direct simply does not mean you have veto power as all decision need to be approve by producer as he control budget and schedule.If you want to control every aspect of production then become a producer first.In extreme cases producer can fire a film director as he is answerable to financier or production companies to ensure delivery of movie.
Go read a film making book first la.
Judging from your shallow question about what camera to buy is best you stick with a video cam as all these dslr requires manual focussing and a few focal range.All these prime lenses gonna be costly and certain skill to use.Not everyone can do follow focus on moving subject.Short focus throw on some modern dslr lens can be difficult to pull accurate follow focussing.

This post has been edited by 6so: Apr 26 2014, 11:40 PM

What makes you think I can't be the producer as well ?

You need some basic information on gears at least to start imo.

The way you are talking and asking sounds like someone who doesn't even have a little idea about using a camera at all at first. Let alone making videos in real life.

And a lot of your questions can be done with a quick google or reading some other articles online for further info.

I don't think that you should expect forummers here to spend so much time typing out super detailed and long answers for you when you are asking some really newbie questions.

Just a few points I would like to highlight
1. You can be your own producer, director, director of photography, script writer, etc etc.
After all, I'm sure you're not making the next blockbuster movie now.
For a regular simple youtube short story, you can fill in as many roles as you can handle.


2. There're certainly a lot to learn about making short movies.
There are also a lot of things to spend on in this hobby/profession.
However, asking around here before you even start shooting is counter intuitive.

We can't tell you the "best" camera that would suit you.
We can only give a few reasonable suggestions and the not so reasonable industry standard suggestions.

The forum can't give you advice so you can create oscar winning movies.
At this point, the information for a simple high budget shoot will just overwhelm you.


3. On knowledge wise, with the internet there are so many ways to learn.
There a lot of great youtube channels or course based website to teach about videography/film making.
Indymogul and Film riot are example of great youtube channels that teach the basics of film making.


4. If you spend all your time worrying about which equipment you should use so your movies will look better so you can finally make movies ... you're going about this the wrong way.
Don't ever let the lack of equipment or film school knowledge or anything like that to stop you from going out and making movies.

Just start shooting with whatever you have, along the way you'll know which equipment, workflow, programs to use to best fit your need.

5. IMO, Just get whichever camera mentioned here and a kitlens (total should not be more than 40% of your budget)
As you go along, you'll know how to spend the remaining 60% of your budget on. From other lens to budget film-making tools.
In addition, if you keep practicing.. you'll eventually stumble on all these film-making information and knowledge either by curiosity or by experience.

This post has been edited by LegendLee: Apr 27 2014, 02:16 AM

I have 600D and plan to sell but if no buyer I'm thinking to use it as video camera. Since I have sold all my lens, I would like some recommendation on lens probably MF. Installing the lantern will improve the video quality? Thanks.

Thank you for your understanding and replies. Sorry I missed to see your reply on GH series yesterday. There are too many pros and cons between the modals and it's difficult to decide without understanding all the features. Just don't want to waste money changing camera later.
No, I am not aiming for the Oscar, I am aiming for Cannes :-)
If I have a budget of up to rm15k, which will you recommend that meet my needs and please give some brief reasons for your choice.. Googling and reading more don't help me. I wish to hear from someone I can trust

Sad to tell you that everyone will change a camera for sure, just how quick or how long. Technology moves fast, any electronic products will get replaced and become better very quick. So instead of wasting time discussing about gears, just get soemthing suggested by forummer and start learning. You don't even know what kind of function you require now, then what's the point asking? Go out and try some cameras, ask yourself if you like it or feel like it's enough, then only make the decision of buying or not.

What?! Googling and reading don't help? There's reasons people writing articles/ making recommendations of certain gears. Of course the gear that he/she likes might not suite your taste, but there's still a reason. If you say like that, then you are going to ask in this forum in the future too for every single tiny details?

I learnt my photography from 0 solely on Internet most of the time and you can refer to my work to see how far i've improved compared to newbies that just received their cameras. Fyi i only started photography for 2 years.

Hi,

Thanks for your recommendation but isn't the panasonic GH4 a dslr too ? What is the difference between the GH4 and the other dslr ?
Among the dslr, I am thinking of either Canon(K3) or Nikon(5300 or MX). Any advice ?

Say you want 400k to make your ‘‘Cannes" quality of movie.
Bear in mind you do not have credential in making a short film,left alone a feature film.
And you haven't produce anything official for a fact before.
You walk up to say Grand Brilliance who made movies all year around with your "Cannes" movie script.You do your pitch and there are somewhat interested.The first thing they ask, who is the producer and production team.And you tell them you are the one man army that got to know how moviemaking works on the internet.You didn't realized how ridiculous that gonna sound and look!(It may sound like a good comedy gag though.)
Say what are the chance of that total stranger gonna handover a 400k cheque to you.
Then they make an offer for a small fee to buy your script so it will be made by a proper producer with bankable film director,if they are feeling generous.
Then you say "I self finance it !" because of pride....with help from family and friends of course.
So good luck.
After 6 months,you secured your funding and start your first morning of shoot.You are filming an intense dialog scene between your two lead with a dslr camera you been practicing on.It's an emotional charged scene involving actress slapping the actor because of something he did previously.Need to keep things a bit ambiguous because it's a Cannes movie.
After the 8th take which took 1 hour to shoot.You nailed your shot but it was lensed on 35mm mid angle.Voila a masterpiece so you swap to glorious 85mm to capture reinforced close-up.After the fifth take the actress refuse to do anymore because her focus and energy was spent out on the earlier takes.The slapping also causes fatigue on both actors.You say let's take a break.You view playback from the footage and realized you can not intercut with each other as expression of the actress is not matching with the 35mm mid angle.But the biggest problem of all was you started the filming at 7am,by the time you shot the 85mm was at 8am which totally screw up exposure and white balance.The frustrated actress walks up to you and ask how come you didn't use 2 camera for such emotional draining scene which she said it's not something you can redo over and over easily.Then in your heart you curse the internet because it was never mentioned on message board.
Then later a friend called to tell you that she saw a new movie that look like a carbon copy of the movie you are trying to film now.
Curse you...conniving thieves from Grand Brilliance.

Provided your script is worthy for people to steal in the first place.

You may heard wild successful story of Robert Rodriguez,Gareth Edwards,Quentin Tarantino,etc...but these people are genius who got their one in a million fairy tale ending.

google for the panasonic gh4 and you will know.

and Canon don't make K3, Nikon don't make MX.

Good that you're aiming for the sky, but do take things one step at a time.
Rather than setting grandiose dreams from the start, set realistic goals frequently.
Perhaps the first should be getting a video on youtube with a thousand views?

Of course googling now won't help you because you've not even started shooting yet.
Once you start shooting, you will know what to google, what to learn and what to ask.

GF3, GH4, Canon 5D2, Canon 5D3, Canon 70D, Canon 60D or even an old Canon 550D will work.
As for which to get, it doesn't really matter.
People have been shooting short films on equipment worse than an iphone.

Don't expect me to say....
Go for the panasonic GH4. With it's 4K resolution it's future proof
Than someone else would say a 5D3 has more lenses and has better range of equipment for flexibility.
Others would say, why spend so much ? Even famous youtubers created great videos with just a 60D ! You don't need all those extra features !

We don't know which camera fits you best. (Because we don't know your requirement)
You don't know which camera fits you best. (Because you don't know your requirement)
(You've to give something more than just - I wanna make a good feature film.)
What's best now may not be the best in the future.
This discussion will go no where.

So stop worrying, just grab any camera(it doesn't matter really) and start shooting.



This post has been edited by LegendLee: Apr 27 2014, 10:26 PM

Thank you for your reply. I learn something there.
I never said I aim for my first movie to reach Cannes.
What do you think is the lowest budget to make a movie ?

Thank you again. Ok just help me to decide first whether I should buy a dslr or a video cam. Then I will decide on the brand and model later.
Some people say the video cam is better as it is meant for video while the dslr is meant for photo. When I ask further for their difference, the only distinctive difference I get is the video cam can shoot longer while the dslr can only shoot up to 20 mins each time and secondly sound recording is better with the video cam. Since I am using it to shoot a movie and not an event, I think the dslr will not pose a problem. I can avoid shooting a long take of up to 20 mins. Am I right to think this way ?
As for the sound recording, you mentioned the mic is better with the video cam, is the difference big ? Is the sound recording quality is big different ? Must it be live recording dialogue ? Can the dialogue be recorded and added later ?
Is there any other big difference between the 2.
My first few movies will definitely not sci-f, actioni or anything that needs much CGI. They will be dramas that have equally lot of outdoor location with sceneries, acting/dialogue outdoor as well as indoor shots and with close-up to emphasise the talents' actings.
Natural color result is important to me, hopefully different equipment dont give big color tone difference.

This post has been edited by simpletraveler: Apr 28 2014, 01:49 AM

DSLR with the right equipment is better suited compared to entry level consumer videocam.
- you will very rarely do a single take longer than a minute much less 20 minutes

Canon DSLR with magic lantern are an excellent tool for a beginner.
Panasonic GH series firmware can be hacked to improve it's quality as well.
Which is why I kept emphasizing on these 2 brands.

Don't worry about colour at this stage.
Basic adjustment can be done in camera before the shoot or by using lighting techniques.

Thank you again. Pls note I edited my last message while you are replying it. On the sound part.
What do you mean by "hacked to improve......" ?

Sorry the 400k was a made up figure.The average local movie cost 1 to 1.5mil to make.When you self finance doesn't mean upon completion you can go to gsc and they will screen it.You need finas license which requires your company bank account to be six figures and cinema also need some substantial five figures for deposit in order to secure slot for screening.When doing a&p you do not get discounted rates with media outlets unless you are being represented by media house which can cost six figures to enlist for their services.To submit for cannes then you need to join some local and international film association to validate your qualification which can cost a grand to two usd to process.If your film is selected you need to send a rep over and that gonna cost some money again. So stop dreaming about doing a movie to screen on your own as these are some serious undertaking with high stake.
Concentrate on your YouTube videos or just resign to do TV program kind of stuff if you insist on not doing it the proper way like attending film school or intern in production houses to work your way up.

- Sound is better
- But you can always record it externally
- exactly what I meant. Google it up.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Panasonic+GH+hacked+#seen

If you still don't get it after googling, than just make the leap and google it once you understand more.

Can you be so kind and brief the options?

-Like for Schooling are there short courses that are effective to take? I Don't really want to take 3-4 year on another degree. Like are there 1 year post graduate courses in Malaysia to learn the field and help with career changing? Or are there professional certificates that can be achieved at certain institutes?

-Youtube Videos. I can see it as good for practicing and portfolio building. But how bout making money this way? What options are there?

Like if there are other ways to make money being freelancing videographer other than wedding/event videos please do tell.

The local film course pretty much not something to look forward to as there are skew more to tv production kind of format,while the overseas one is a little more robust but 60 per cent will be garbage as film making culture varies from one country to another.It just make it a bit easier to get into production house to do internship or a rough idea which department you want to be.Producing,scripting,production design and please don't fool yourself that you gonna film direct ovenight.If camera department,just the old school pupil and mentor kind of thing.You can start at rental house as storekeeper cum technician where you learn about all these uber expensive toys (not necessary that you need degree for it) and find an opportunity to earn a place with the camera team.Don't bother to think you gonna have a shot at dp or cinematographer for the first 8 years as literally your reputation is on the line and can not be that one trick pony type of work.You need to be very versatile with film directors and be a great problem solver.Be prepare to earn next to minimum wages for awhile before you get to see comfortable money.Last but not least,make red bull your official drink as you will be expected to do walking dead when comes to the actual filming.There gonna be a lot of 24 hours marathon shoot because we do not have hollywood budget and union to govern working condition.

Drop rates from greenhorn who couldn't survive first day of shoot is extremely high just fyi.Especially those mama boy who thought their film degree matters or they are unable to cope with the madness on a movie set.

Wedding or event videographer definitely a lot more easier altough not as glamorous and demanding as the real deal.

This post has been edited by 6so: Apr 28 2014, 02:08 PM

Is this the minimum ?
Is this the actual production cost or included any "under table" or kopi money to any department ?

Thank you again.
I enquired with 2 shops on GH; one said GH series is older and longer and offered me GF6 and GX7 while another still selling GH3 but no GH4.

The first shop said GF6 is better and also cheaper than GH3; GX7 cost more so should be even better. What's your opinion ?

GH 3 or GH 4 when it's available next month.
For reasons that you probably won't really understand or grasp the importance if I tell you now but will appreciate once you start shooting.

This post has been edited by LegendLee: Apr 28 2014, 04:50 PM

Can you please explain briefly how is the GH4 or 3 better or different from GX7 ? I like GX7 size and price, not seen any GH yet.

http://www.cameradebate.com/2013/panasonic-lumix-gx7-vs-gh3/

Here’s a full list of the video recording capabilities of the GH3:

3.5 mm mic socket (neither the GM1, GF6, and GX7 have this feature, only the G6 got a mic jack)
3.5 mm headphone socket (neither the GM1, GF6, GX7 or G6 has this feature)
3.0-inch 614K-dot Free-angle OLED rear monitor
Built-in Dolby Digital Stereo microphone
HDMI monitor-through
1080p60, 1080p24 (progressive)
Choose between ALL-Intra or IPB
Seamless File generation
Heat Dispersing Design
Time code recorded for video editing use
Slow Motion / Fast Motion in FUll HD (Slow: 0.8 / 0.48 / 0.4, Fast: 1.6, 2.0, 3.0)
Manual exposure control
Touch AF full-time AF, Face Recognition AF for video recording
MF assist
Silent operation
Photo capture while recording a video
Creative control (filters for videos)
Cut Animation (extract frames into photos from a video playback)
Divide a video into two separate parts

if you don't understand any of the above.
Basically just accept it that it's better for video.
From ease of control to sound quality to better video quality.

This post has been edited by LegendLee: Apr 29 2014, 12:34 AM

Thank you again. Seen that link; GH3 is better but since the new one is coming out next month, I will just wait for a little while.
Btw, the Cannon Mark3 has a feature that can do something like auto focus on 64 spots,. I don't see that mentioned in Panasonic.

Irrelevant feature for video.

You mean this 64 spots thing don't work on video shooting ?
This is why I just don't trust Malaysian businessman or shop assistants.

Thanks for the insight. I'm not too keen in joining a production house. But I'll see whether these production houses hire outsourced freelance videographers or not for projects that they feel understaff for. I really am more keen on doing freelance.

The only time we hire videographer is only for behind the scene kind of coverage.While the actual filming will be strictly under camera crew team.Focus puller,clapper/loader and vtr - 3 man team.
You may want to give a shot at tv programme production houses as they work on a more forgiving video camera type of environment and if you make it at least you will be given longer period of assignments as oppose to one off event coverage.
Even when we use video camera for budget reason,at minimum we are using sony pmw55 or pmw500 for reliability and post production compatibility.We are not talking about 100 gigs of data but 10 to 30 teras of data management for a feature film.
If you really interested in professional filming equipment,can look for american cinematographer magazine that has superb coverage of dp sharing their lighting techniques and their reason for using specific equipment or combination.

Disadvantages of DSLR:

1.We have to set to manual focus on DSLR when recording movies & it always out of focus if the subject moves
2.Cannot shoot continuesly (maximum 15 minutes) it will auto stop.
3. Zoom function not smooth & zoom noise will be recorded too

I been shooting short film since last year. Yup i have done a lot of research on how to shoot movie. the most important thing in a movie is audio. The cheapest recorder is Zoom H1 which cost rm350, and you also need rode shootgun which cost rm 700+ so that you can have better audio. To make a short fim, you need someone who expert in audio and can do audio editing, and also help you to record their voice. you also need clapper board so that you can record the scene for which audio. You must at least have a semi-pro dslr like canon eos 70D, that cost rm3300. you also need lighting equipment like aputure LED light, that cost rm250+ each, you need at least 2 to have a good lighting. you also need good lens. I recommend large aperture zoom lens like sigma 18-35mm which cost rm2500. you also need camera rig which cost rm12,000. You also need slider which cost about rm 2000. Lastly, you need editing software. Then, you can make a movie. Start making short movie first. Make a lot of them so that you can practice. Like Dankhoo in youtube, he practised a lot. Practice make perfect. This equipment is for youtube quality short movie. All of the equipment cost roughly rm16,000.

If you want to make TV quality video, like drama, you need better camera, which cost rm50,000 and above.
if you want to make cinema quality video, you need at least RM300K just for all of your equipment.

Yes, that camera shop assistant told you that you can use a rm10,000 dslr to shoot video but that is just a camera. You need to buy other equipment to shoot video. If you don't have good equipment, your video will look like shot with a phone. Phone also shoot HD video.

it's the equipment expensive, not camera, unlike you use camera like red.