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> Confuse with S & P procedure, Updated * Sign s & p, house is low cost?

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TSPredatorazor84
post Apr 19 2014, 10:45 AM, updated 10y ago

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Im in process to buy a house, loan already approved, awaiting S & P by my lawyer however already wait for 6 month because the property is still at developer name, thus the S & P cannot proceed. The owner in process to get the consent letter from developer. Is this master titled? The house already 12 years old why bank approved my loan if the property is master? The main concern is how long I'm gonna wait for S & P? The agent of the owner said to me that the S & P can be done without consent letter just follow the old S & P so I can lock the property price with the owner, he claim that if wait longer the owner might change the price or cancel the sale. Who I should trust?

Updated * see latest post below

This post has been edited by Predatorazor84: Jun 3 2014, 07:21 PM
tessei
post Apr 19 2014, 11:19 AM

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from my exp, s&p done by buyer's lawyer, can be completed within a week time with condition both vendor and buyer sign the agreement plus deposit.. normally your lawyer will refer to current & previous owner s&p 1st.

Getting consent letter should be done by your lawyer for faster response and the vendor must help since only him know to whom he's selling to.... It's a way to inform developer that vendor intend to sell to this 1 person only... if got multiple request, developer will ignore the rest until the vendor itself inform with whom he's dealing with again.
** maybe u stuck in here and vendor forgot about this.
**previous potential buyer already sent letter to developer and get the letter of consent altho' the selling process didn't proceed and vendor didn't know about this. - if this one u must find that lawyer and ask them to inform developer to withdraw/cancel back previous letter of consent.

u must also push the agent to help u getting the letter of consent becoz agent want to lock their 3% commission from the vendor when u sign the s&p.

if getting letter of consent already > 6 month, i see more trouble ahead.
ie, with s&p sign + extension etc, u will get penalty for just waiting other document in the future.

try call yourself the said developer to get rough idea how long just to get the letter of consent. u also need to get photocopies of 'geran', CF, layout plan from developer for processing of loan / lawyer / EPF withdrawal..

make sure before sign s&p u can get all the required document, if not all 'lepas tangan'

don't sign the loan yet, if cancel later got penalty is not mistaken.


goodluck

This post has been edited by tessei: Apr 19 2014, 11:20 AM
erizzzzz
post Apr 19 2014, 12:11 PM

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Fron what i understand from your post, i think the property now is in the midst of getting strata title.

fyi, you can sign the s&p. Np problem with consent. Consent can be done after snp cuz in the s&p, the completion date or the extended completion can be based against what ever date or event.

the strata process would now take about 6-9 months. To save further time, what you lawyer can do is 'double transfer'. An experience lawyer can arrange for 'double transfer'. First transfer cost should be by the vendor (seller) while buyer pays 2nd transfer.

if you dont do double transfer, you can expect to add around another 3-5 months for everything.

my suggestion is to find an experienced lawyer to cover you on the completion date or the extended completion date term and to do the double transfer.
TSPredatorazor84
post Apr 19 2014, 03:50 PM

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ote=tessei,Apr 19 2014, 11:19 AM]
from my exp, s&p done by buyer's lawyer, can be completed within a week time with condition both vendor and buyer sign the agreement plus deposit.. normally your lawyer will refer to current & previous owner s&p 1st.

Getting consent letter should be done by your lawyer for faster response and the vendor must help since only him know to whom he's selling to.... It's a way to inform developer that vendor intend to sell to this 1 person only... if got multiple request, developer will ignore the rest until the vendor itself inform with whom he's dealing with again.
** maybe u stuck in here and vendor forgot about this.
**previous potential buyer already sent letter to developer and get the letter of consent altho' the selling process didn't proceed and vendor didn't know about this. - if this one u must find that lawyer and ask them to inform developer to withdraw/cancel back previous letter of consent.

u must also push the agent to help u getting the letter of consent becoz agent want to lock their 3% commission from the vendor when u sign the s&p.

if getting letter of consent already > 6 month, i see more trouble ahead.
ie, with s&p sign + extension etc, u will get penalty for just waiting other document in the future.

try call yourself the said developer to get rough idea how long just to get the letter of consent. u also need to get photocopies of 'geran', CF, layout plan from developer for processing of loan / lawyer / EPF withdrawal..

make sure before sign s&p u can get all the required document, if not all 'lepas tangan'

don't sign the loan yet, if cancel later got penalty is not mistaken.
goodluck
*

[/quote]

The problem is loan already approve and sign, valuation process already pass months ago, the problem is as u mention my lawyer didn't get require document such as consent letter, letter of transfer (from developer to owner@seller) to proceed with S & P, however the lawyer did mention I still can do the S & P but the process will be still pending because cannot proceed stamping, and more important EPF.

TSPredatorazor84
post Apr 19 2014, 04:01 PM

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QUOTE(erizzzzz @ Apr 19 2014, 12:11 PM)
Fron what i understand from your post, i think the property now is in the midst of getting strata title.

fyi, you can sign the s&p. Np problem with consent. Consent can be done after snp cuz in the s&p, the completion date or the extended completion can be based against what ever date or event.

the strata process would now take about 6-9 months. To save further time, what you lawyer can do is 'double transfer'. An experience lawyer can arrange for 'double transfer'. First transfer cost should be by the vendor (seller) while buyer pays 2nd transfer.

if you dont do double transfer, you can expect to add around another 3-5 months for everything.

my suggestion is to find an experienced lawyer to cover you on the completion date or the extended completion date term and to do the double transfer.
*
I not sure strata or individual but I think individual bcoz it's landed property. Yes, the owner claim the process will take that long, and suggest me to use her lawyer (the house lawyer) to process S & P at first. I refuse because if I accept that I will pay for 'double transfer' fee as my friend suggest. So, I appoint other lawyer to do my part while the owner do her part (master to individual), the question is should I do the S & P now or wait until all the owner process have settle? Bcoz the agent said if the owner cancel or increse the price I cannot do anything to prevent that.... but at the same time I thought the agent hasty statement is bcoz he want part of his fee in the balance deposit..... so that force me to do the S & P quick
erizzzzz
post Apr 19 2014, 04:23 PM

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Agent will always say that cuz they want the commission. For me you could sign the snp as long as the terms in the snp is right and covers you accordingly. You might want to add other clauses esply with regards to you occupying the property if you are buying for dwelling purposes.

unlike buying from a developer, snp for subsale is not standard. Parties can put other terms in it. Just be creative.
SUSUFO-ET
post Apr 19 2014, 05:45 PM

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QUOTE(erizzzzz @ Apr 19 2014, 12:11 PM)
Fron what i understand from your post, i think the property now is in the midst of getting strata title.

fyi, you can sign the s&p. Np problem with consent. Consent can be done after snp cuz in the s&p, the completion date or the extended completion can be based against what ever date or event.

the strata process would now take about 6-9 months. To save further time, what you lawyer can do is 'double transfer'. An experience lawyer can arrange for 'double transfer'. First transfer cost should be by the vendor (seller) while buyer pays 2nd transfer.

if you dont do double transfer, you can expect to add around another 3-5 months for everything.

my suggestion is to find an experienced lawyer to cover you on the completion date or the extended completion date term and to do the double transfer.
*
Precisely
It shd be called back-to-back transfer I think

This post has been edited by UFO-ET: Apr 19 2014, 05:46 PM
TSPredatorazor84
post Apr 19 2014, 07:20 PM

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QUOTE(erizzzzz @ Apr 19 2014, 04:23 PM)
Agent will always say that cuz they want the commission. For me you could sign the snp as long as the terms in the snp is right and covers you accordingly. You might want to add other clauses esply with regards to you occupying the property if you are buying for dwelling purposes.

unlike buying from a developer, snp for subsale is not standard. Parties can put other terms in it. Just be creative.
*
Yes I could sign the S & P but I couldnt withdraw EPF to cover the balance deposit, since EPF regulation require consent letter or at least letter of transfer. Have to dig up somewhere else to get the money..... huhu
amirmunzir
post Apr 20 2014, 02:03 AM

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QUOTE(Predatorazor84 @ Apr 19 2014, 07:20 PM)
Yes I could sign the S & P but I couldnt withdraw EPF to cover the balance deposit, since EPF regulation require consent letter or at least letter of transfer. Have to dig up somewhere else to get the money..... huhu
*
From your situation, i believed the property is still under Master Title, ie the Land owner/Tuan tanah of the Property is either the Developer @ Proprietor. Maybe the land office has not issue yet the Individual (for Landed Prop)/Strata (for High Rise Prop) Title. There are some cases eventho after 12 years Individual/Strata Title still havent issue by the land office.

So, if that the case, you can proceed to sign SNP, and the mode of transfer is Deed of Assignment.. So main agreement is to sign SNP and Deed of Assignment. (if Indv/Strata Title out, you will sign SNP and mode of Transfer is Memorandum of Transfer (Form/Borang 14A).. After you and Vendor sign snp and stamped (usually within a week)(DOA will be sign together but CANNOT STAMPED TOGETHER WITH SNP), your bank will pay (redeem the Property) from the Vendor's bank, then Vendor's bank will sign Deed of Receipt and Reassignment, then baru STAMPED DOA and the Prop is yours - that is in simple explanation and process.


If im not mistaken, EPF require stamped SNP, OR Letter of Consent OR, as you mentioned above, Letter of Transfer (which if you are buying a land with Individual/Strata Title, the "Transfer's Letter" is Memorandum of Transfer (14A) and if you are buying a land without Individual/Strata Title, the "Transfer's Letter" should be Deed of Assignment (By Way of Transfer)(DOA).

Get the relevant pages or better full copy of STAMPED SNP, copy of UNstamped 14A (if with Individual Title)/DOA (if without Individual Title) duly executed by you and Vendor and other relevant docs to EPF, I believe the docs are in order for the EPF's withdrawal. Please, correct me if im wrong or left out some other important thing.

Consent is only applicable when the title got restriction in interest, ie "tanah ini tidak boleh dipindahmilik (transfer) atau digadai (charge) tanpa kebenaran pihak berkuasa negeri". So with regards to Consent Letter, application of consent only applicable when individual/strata ttle issued and there are several types, 1) Blanket Consent to Transfer (for cases Indv Title just issued and this is applied by Developer, 2) Consent to Transfer (For subsale-cases, apply by vendor) and 3) Consent to Charge (apply by Purchaser). So, i dont think Letter of Consent is a mandatory documents when you want to withdraw the EPF.




amirmunzir
post Apr 20 2014, 02:12 AM

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QUOTE(Predatorazor84 @ Apr 19 2014, 04:01 PM)
I not sure strata or individual but I think individual bcoz it's landed property. Yes, the owner claim the process will take that long, and suggest me to use her lawyer (the house lawyer) to process S & P at first. I refuse because if I accept that I will pay for 'double transfer' fee as my friend suggest. So, I appoint other lawyer to do my part while the owner do her part (master to individual), the question is should I do the S & P now or wait until all the owner process have settle? Bcoz the agent said if the owner cancel or increse the price I cannot do anything to prevent that.... but at the same time I thought the agent hasty statement is bcoz he want part of his fee in the balance deposit..... so that force me to do the S & P quick
*
If from here, I can see that the Indv Title is out, so Seller's lawyer will now do the PERFECTION OF TRANSFER, meaning that Developer and Seller sign Form 14A (Borang Pindahmilik/Memorandum of Transfer), which the property will transfer the land to Seller, and then present it at land office, so Indv title will out registered with the Seller's name..

Then Seller and you will sign Form 14A, and then present, so title will be registered under your name. This is called Double Transfer.

you can also ask your lawyer to confirm with developer, whether they agree to DIRECT TRANSFER, meaning that dev and YOU will sign Form 14A, transfer direct to you, instead DEV to Seller (1st Transfer) and Seller to you (2nd Trasnfer).

Usually, if property got restriction in interest, ie need to get consent from land office, Dev will not agreeable to Direct Transfer becoz they have obtained Blanket Consent in favour of SELLER. So need to do double transfer.

Have to bear in mind, beside PERFECTION OF TRANSFER, there is also PERFECTION OF CHARGE, just if the the Property currently assigned to a Bank..
TSPredatorazor84
post Apr 20 2014, 02:06 PM

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QUOTE(amirmunzir @ Apr 20 2014, 02:12 AM)
If from here, I can see that the Indv Title is out, so Seller's lawyer will now do the PERFECTION OF TRANSFER, meaning that Developer and Seller sign Form 14A (Borang Pindahmilik/Memorandum of Transfer), which the property will transfer the land to Seller, and then present it at land office, so Indv title will out registered with the Seller's name..

Then Seller and you will sign Form 14A, and then present, so title will be registered under your name. This is called Double Transfer.

you can also ask your lawyer to confirm with developer, whether they agree to DIRECT TRANSFER, meaning that dev and YOU will sign Form 14A, transfer direct to you, instead DEV to Seller (1st Transfer) and Seller to you (2nd Trasnfer).

Usually, if property got restriction in interest, ie need to get consent from land office, Dev will not agreeable to Direct Transfer becoz they have obtained Blanket Consent in favour of SELLER. So need to do double transfer.

Have to bear in mind, beside PERFECTION OF TRANSFER, there is also PERFECTION OF CHARGE, just if the the Property currently assigned to a Bank..
*
Thanks for your explanation, I believe the process is exactly like the first situation u explain which as describe by my lawyer, the seller still wait for the developer to sign Borang pindah milik from developer name to seller name, it takes time because the document have to be sign and approve by the original director(s) of that developer company. My concern is, should I wait for that process or just sign S & P with exception of EPF to settle the balance deposit, just to make sure I lock the property price and seller decision to sell the property? Either way, normally how long gonna take until I can move in to the property?

oxm8
post Apr 20 2014, 02:15 PM

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it depend on YOU... if it is a good buy. the property is good too... they go ahead to sign SPA & lock the price too. you may get advice from lawyer on additional clauses to put in SPA ( ie 3 months counting from the date of transfer completed from developer to seller etc etc etc)
TSPredatorazor84
post Apr 21 2014, 02:32 PM

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QUOTE(oxm8 @ Apr 20 2014, 02:15 PM)
it depend on YOU... if it is a good buy. the property is good too... they go ahead to sign SPA & lock the price too. you may get advice from lawyer on additional clauses to put in SPA ( ie 3 months counting from the date of transfer completed from developer to seller etc etc etc)
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I am currently follow my lawyer advice to wait.... but from seller perspective(both seller and agent) they sure suggest me to sign the S & P quick, i think because they want the balance deposit. But as explain by my lawyer, better wait the seller to settle down with developer otherwise it will become inconvenient for further process and hard to protect my right. hmm.gif
amirmunzir
post Apr 23 2014, 09:58 PM

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QUOTE(Predatorazor84 @ Apr 20 2014, 02:06 PM)
Thanks for your explanation, I believe the process is exactly like the first situation u explain which as describe by my lawyer, the seller still wait for the developer to sign Borang pindah milik from developer name to seller name, it takes time because the document have to be sign and approve by the original director(s) of that developer company. My concern is, should I wait for that process or just sign S & P with exception of EPF to settle the balance deposit, just to make sure I lock the property price and seller decision to sell the property? Either way, normally how long gonna take until I can move in to the property?
*
It seems like you really want the Property, so I suggest maybe you can try ask the Vendor, who is the lawyer doing the Perfection of Transfer (POT) and Perfection of Charge (POC)..

In some situations, SAME lawyer doing the POT and POC.. POT = transfer from Dev to Vendor WHILE POC = perfect the charge (gadai) the Property to the Vendor's Bank (Financier whom finance the purchase during Vendor purchased the Prop from Dev)...

Call them lawyers, ask what stage.. since Dev not agreeable to Direct Transfer, it may be because the land got restriction in interest = need to obtain consent... So, ask POT lawyer, have the MOT executed by Dev and Vendor and have they received ori title from Dev?... Ask POC lawyer, have they obtained Consent to Charge in favour of the Vendor's Bank and have the Bank and Vendor sign Memorandum of Charge?...

If all answers is yes (and if they said just pending adjudication of MOT between V and Dev), then i would like to suggest you to proceed sign the SNP.. because from there, i believe MAX 5-6months you can get everythings done and move into the Prop...

Services for POT and POC require the Vendor to pay the lawyer's fees and also the Vendor need to fork out thousand of ringgit to pay stamp duty ad volarem on transfer (the amount of stamp duti depends on purchase price from Dev). This is why they reluctant to do at early stage... just chase vendor to do POt and POC, make sure Vendor pay all the maintenenace fees, Assessment (CUkai Pintu), Cukai Tanah.. those are the things that really important documents needed..


amirmunzir
post Apr 23 2014, 10:04 PM

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QUOTE(Predatorazor84 @ Apr 21 2014, 02:32 PM)
I am currently follow my lawyer advice to wait.... but from seller perspective(both seller and agent) they sure suggest me to sign the S & P quick, i think because they want the balance deposit. But as explain by my lawyer, better wait the seller to settle down with developer otherwise it will become inconvenient for further process and hard to protect my right.  hmm.gif
*
let say, What if the Vendor settled everything with Dev (meaning the title NOW under his name after so much monies he had already spent to make the things (POT) with Dev done) then suddenly because of he spent so much monies to settled, he suddenly increase the purchase price??.. better sign snp, get advise from your lawyer to draft the SNP which makes the Vendor to expedite the matter and at the same time, you definately able to lock up the agreed purchase price.

Just my thoughts..
TSPredatorazor84
post Jun 3 2014, 07:14 PM

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Now finally settled, sign S & P and the price fix, but suddenly we just been told that the property is consider low cost and state of Selangor have rules which low cost property only given to person with less than 5k income(married) and 3k income(non married)..... WTF?? Is this true? I never heard those except SPNB, Prima, mampu milik or whatsoever, plus the house already 14 years old for god sake! Are those rules still apply?

Back then when I apply for loan the bank never highlight those, and the bank reject my self application because my salary can't afford 200k house, so I joint income with my wife so the total income 6k then only the loan being approved. Logically 3k salary for non married cannot afford 200k house then who can buy since more than 3k salary is not permitted to own the house? Any suggestion and opinion?
loritanah
post Jun 5 2014, 08:11 AM

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QUOTE(Predatorazor84 @ Jun 3 2014, 07:14 PM)
Now finally settled, sign S & P and the price fix, but suddenly we just been told that the property is consider low cost and state of Selangor have rules which low cost property only given to person with less than 5k income(married) and 3k income(non married)..... WTF?? Is this true? I never heard those except SPNB, Prima, mampu milik or whatsoever, plus the house already 14 years old for god sake! Are those rules still apply?

Back then when I apply for loan the bank never highlight those, and the bank reject my self application because my salary can't afford 200k house, so I joint income with my wife so the total income 6k then only the loan being approved. Logically 3k salary for non married cannot afford 200k house then who can buy since more than 3k salary is not permitted to own the house? Any suggestion and opinion?
*
this is quite scary since i also in midts of buying house with more or less same condition as yours...just rcvd copy SNP from my lawyer.

please updates us more

 

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