If you think it does, then i suppose so.

not really a follower of your...err, i suppose religion or your beliefs.

But i can tell you, these people whether they are in office or your church, cause huge problems for people.

Yeah i got some frens who are christians, they tell me about these people...cause havoc and inconveniences in their lifes.

I won't judge whether these people will go to heaven or not, but i can judge them on the merit on whether i can trust them or they qualify as my friends.
I give you an example, there's a poster name Nemesis lah...he is quite active in the job career forum, apparently he is a PR in Australia lah. One poster created thread about the Malaysians who complain about our msian situation then go migrating.

So i commented that i know one friend who was my classmate...before he left, he attended my class reunion and boasted about how he and his family going to migrate to australia. He said it was god's divine and will, that his family go to australia to make a better life. Then i commented in that thread about this friend of mine...i said, my friend was disillusioning himself...because he was using god as an excuse. I mean, if a migrant want to migrate for the $$$, children education and better life, just be honest and say so lah..but don't bullshiit to us non christians that you are there because of god's divine blessing. A lot of christian friends of mine tell me that they would rather stay in msia because its the hot zone...because their god tell them to make disciples of all nations, to evangelise and to help those in need. So what purpose is for someone to migrate to australia to have make disciples of all nations? When he went over there, he didn't even bother to serve at church, and he only attend church to network with other PRs there. So he is literraly bullshiit to us by using god as an excuse and i don't like it at all.

Then this Nemises guy who is a christian, started to get butthurt when i posted that, he call me names and say i am a liar. I know this friend of mine for 10 years, and this nemises guy start to accuse me..what basis that nemises has?

THis nemises guy even try to curse me and wish me bad life...because he was so butthurt that he was using god as an excuse to migrate..i wasn't even talking about nemises because i don't know him but suddenly he came out to attack me.

So i tell you lah, these are the third type of chrisitans, the ego type...i thought christians are taught to be meek and kind...slap left cheek, offer right cheek but this nemises guy, i don't even talk about him, he start cursing me.

not hurt the rest but humanity itself on having a bad impression on Christians themself... its easier to find fault of others than to praise them.. its very human nature... like u see in our world today vatican is very deep trouble of all the bad news coming out to the media.. that is just like the slice of the icing cake...

please do note end time is very real and its kinda happening ... raping, murdering, kidnapping, and etc... are more prone as of today then if was during our forefathers days..
some even worst, thing to highly of them selves like the Pharisees ... eventually that is the beginning of their fall from grace..

on the contrary i know very mature christians who act like jerks.

i used to have this crazy dictator christian boss who is very active at church.

nobody in our dept likes him. there was one time during teambuilding, he wanted to forced a pregnant colleague to go for the outward bound school training.

he is put on so much controls that nobody in the co liked him but when it came to his own indiscretions of cheating figures, he didn't mind closing one eye.

In the end, one of the managers in the company collected enough evidence to force out this christian boss. He was adamant to the end...he never admit he was cheating the figures.

they are very spiritually matured...they can even sing worship songs, do sunday teachings...like the devil...

as i said i will never know if they are from the god or the devil because only god know that...

their fruits are very grey...these ego christians serve in the church and are well respected, but they play a lot of politics...

I know one businessman, he is super rich guy, his house is bigger than the church got infinity swimming pool on the 2nd floor like marina bay sands.

One day afriend, invited me, because of this businessman decided to hold a Xmas dinner at his house.

there were 50 youths there at that time...

then one day, he go and preach to us "It is bad to have a lot of money, a lot of material wealth because it corrupts us...you must remain humble and stable income"..."do not pursue the material wealth of this world..."

i was like what the heck? The dude got like 5 BMWs, Mercs and Bentleys parked outside his humongous 6 storey house. He even has his own elevator.

i got nothing against rich people but when rich people tell us that its bad to be rich...gosh. And what is a super rich guy born with a silver spoon inherited his richness from his parents know anything about the corruptness of money?

You had one hell of a day, and kudos to u, u did very well. 

oh the bizman is very knowlegeable in the bible, he quotes a lot of stuff.....

its funny how he concentrates on educating his 50 youths by asking them to come to his big house for meeting, buy a training book from a famous pastor from saddleback church and do weekly study on it.

He's been doing that for 4 years, half his so-called "12 apostles" cg leaders don't even know what its like to be a cg leader. They take on rotating shift as cg leader only twice a year ! And those fellas are in their mid to late 20s....most of them don't even know anything about their religion.

the businessman is so protective ! Meaning by the time they reach 30s, they should be promoted into the adult cg...why for goodness sakes they have to be like babies nurtured in a young adult nursery?

If he really cares about their spiritual maturity, he would split 50 over young adult members and divide them into say 4 cg...then they will surely grow...other churches are doing that, but he doesn't want to because he is a control freak.

As a result when 50 people come for meeting, no one knows if one drops out or not...most of the time, only like 12 or 13 active ones will come. THats the trouble with big cg, members will find a way to conveniently disappear until Xmas or Easter celebration, all of sudden, they pop out of no where. There is just no personal care...

the 12 leaders he nurture are super political, they are children of the members of the church whose been there for a long time. THe 12 ones only care about their own people...if they don't like you, there be a class of people they classify as outcast. This is the kind of behaviour the businessman is nurturing.

Christians tell me that jesus is compassion and caring, why is this businessman building a political party?

i am not even part of that cg...not even a christian. why i bother?

if everything you do is in god, then why bother to go to church? worship your god from your home is more better right? because if you go to church and the people don't bother to change, you are wasting your time isn't it?

yeah i wanna know, what is the point of you guys going to church? you got your tools, you say you can pray..you say you got your grace..you got your bible book. what the church got you don't have? just a building isn't it?

may I know what the living that's Christ like?

Are the disciples of God must have painful experiences? Just see how pity Paul cs to sacrifice their life for Jesus. Got the verse: Be happy for someone sacrifices their life for the sake of Christ, because they will have place in Christ. Many CHristians I saw left Jesus just because they have saad experience with Jesus. It's not all serve Jesus will be lucky forever and have rich material etc. i just don't like in church only talked about blessings in material wealth rather than the personal development between us, Jesus, and the society.

And if you want to be rich then you must be poor first? If you want to get what you want then you must give all you first? talk is easy, to do it is very challenging.

got what...some people are home schooled.

i took external online courses...after schooling.

you still haven't say why you go to church? what is the purpose if people there are political? at least the school you gain something...a free education from public school, why not?

why you want to pull in your funds to pay tithes to the church to build super big buildings? why don't you instead pay your 10% tithes to other christian para church org, like world vision, at least they are audited and checked.

i hear got one church whereby they overbudgeted a group of youths just to organize some talk seminar...use the money to go to expensive restaurants every sunday after service to makan dim sum, thai food, etc.

then i got my christian colleague, he so bodoh, why he listen to pastor to must marry christian girl? his church so small only 200, how to find...he 40 still not marry...then one day i heard him say to me this church SIB was organizing a valentine dinner to matchmake guys n girls, they go meet up in some grand dinner at the church...one person pay RM400 !!!!!! I told him not to go, because the church is robbing and overcharging him..THIS IS PURE EXPLOITATION ! luckily he didn't as he was from a smaller church...that church wasn;t his anyways. i recommended him one girl from Kajang, a lukewarm christian, saved him RM400.

it is a deterrent because some ministries are racist, they restrict certain people from going in. I heard of africans being restricted.

or if you want to join certain ministries, they are political...they only let their gang in.

how can you feed in mega churches >2000 people? You go there, on sunday, jump up n down among 2000 strangers...sing song..then listen to sermon, you pray, then you go back home...

whats the point? you mind as well watch it by TV live telecast. wasting petrol. you dun even know anyone there.

any events coming?? anyone going for planetshaker workshop this year?

The concept of Church was taught by Jesus Himself and re-iterated by Paul on why 'Not forsaking the fellowship' is important. Christians are not solo creatures but are a group of people. For example, in a warfare, nobody goes out alone to fight an army, what more us!? We are in a spiritual warfare! Our adversary is constantly seeking to devour those who falter.

Churches are not perfect, we all know that. But it's God will for us to grow together in that institute. Christ Himself said that 'He will build His church and the gates of Hades will not prevail'. We are to grow in a church, like how a child is suppose to grow in a family.

So your argument is actually going against God's command, that is something that you're doing actively when your aren't attending church.

Now on which church to go to and settle in, should be based on this few criteria generally:

1. Is the truth being preached and the doctrine are sound, are they following God's teaching?

2. Is the church 'small' enough to care for it's members, and if the church is huge, are they some 'cell group' or other similar ministry that have accountability in it's core. Are they able to keep you accountable and able to care for each of the  members.

3. Are the members generally 'artificial' or are they 'organic' (growing Christians).

These are some important things that you have to consider, of course there are many churches that doesn't practice this, but these church do exist and you should attend them because Christ wants Christians to grow in a church institute.

Not the same Christ Jesus.

The Koran depiction of Jesus is very different from the Bible and lacks historical evidence whereas throughout history,
Non-Christian historian writings and Archaeological findings, matches closer to the Jesus of our Bible records.

I quote that so that you know the Authenticity of our Christ Jesus comes not only from our book.

There are other witnesses.

If the Koran does not provide proper evidence for Jesus, I find no reason to put my Faith there.

such as? this debate is an interesting topic. at least to me

Due to the Atheist thread issues, mods have decided to move this thread here:

1. moved to serious kopitiam
2. unknown warrior to moderate
3. more than 5 complaints i will kolos and no question asked
4. be matured

Actually its decided after discussing among the admins and staff. I know there isnt any problems so its good. Keep it that way.

By the way, its nothing related to Atheist thread. Its the final decision that the mod team has concluded with after discussing as the rules of kopitiam is that no religion related threads are suppose to be allowed.

so ? the thread moves to serious kopitiam ?? hi unknown warrior !

he just made a statement about christians. is he referring to the "old testament"? is the old testaments actually "christian"?

is funny how my mind work...i see copy and shadow and i think windows server shadow copy service...lol

however, isn't this a bit like interpretation and fitting the shadow of history to the present subject? like Nostradamus' writing..which is even more cryptic allowing for even wider interpretations..to map on to current events..?