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 LYN Christian Fellowship V7 (Group), Bible Hope never disappoints!

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TSunknown warrior
post Oct 14 2014, 03:51 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Oct 14 2014, 03:33 PM)
Your obsession with Law and Grace really amaze me.

All of your interpretations seem to be based on this.
In fact, so obsessed is your view on Law and Grace that you are willing to attack anyone who differs with you in this aspect.

The phrase which refers to peter as a stone is
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
The rock talks about Christ.

Most likely Peter(Small stone) talks about him as part of the body of Christ and also perheps he will play an important role as a leader since he recognized Christ.

There is nothing that states that Peter was anyhow related to law or legalism. In fact, just looking at the character of Peter, you will find that he tends to be a little bit reckless. Which is very different from legalism. Recklessness is generally the opposite to legalism.

Yes, it was being revealed to Peter that Jesus was the Christ. But then for most jews at that time, their understanding of Christ is one that comes in and save them from the oppression of Rome. What Jesus was narrating was different from the understanding of Peter and most of the disciples out there.

The verse after that.
24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Shows very clearly shows that being Christ followers now but espacially during that time was not going to be easy. It's not about the physical kingdom. It's about a future kingdom.

Peter was just being reckless when he interrupted Jesus because he did not understand the purpose of Christ first coming and also he could not
There are many prophecies that actually states that the Messiah will come and establish a Kingdom in Israel. But that will be fulfilled in the second coming.
The Jews were awaiting for such a messiah.

You are resorting to symbolism to over emphasize your theology. That's the wrong approach to things.
*
Don't misunderstand. I wasn't attacking your point, just giving you additional insight.
What gives you that idea anyway?
The Bible has many life application from multiple angle.


I'll tell you why I say Peter is a type of Christian under the Law.

Remember about Peter's denial of the Lord?

What happened?

Jesus said, all the disciples will fall away on account of Him (Matthew 26:21)
And Peter boasted "Even if all fall away on account of you, I never will." (Matthew 26:33)
And Peter said this in front of all the disciples! biggrin.gif

That is like saying, God I will obey you! Even all these other disciples can't!

And we all now what happened next. He betrayed Jesus with cursing and swearing some more.

What is the lesson behind this?

He typifies the type of Believers today who boast of their own obedience to God.

Lord I will obey you even to the very ends of the earth. Be careful when you boast as such, you'll find it hard to complete it just like Peter.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 14 2014, 03:54 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 14 2014, 04:09 PM

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QUOTE(ngaisteve1 @ Oct 14 2014, 03:58 PM)
i also didn't know this peter's law insight hmm.gif
*
In contrast to Peter, the disciple John, Yohanan (Grace) often use this phrase.

The disciple whom Jesus love.

You'll find that is mentioned multiple times in his own gospel, the Book of John.

Now John did not boast of his Love to God. He typifies the type of Christians who boast of God's Love to Him! (The other way round)

And what happened?

Peter denied knowing the Lord 3 times with cursing and swearing but the Apostle John! Was the ONLY apostle found at the cross with Jesus Christ!

He was given that honor! To see the divine Cross! What a glorious honor and John was the only one who knew who betrayed Christ Jesus. HE was the quickest one to recognize who God is (John 21:7) and was the quickest one to reach the empty tomb. ( John 20:4)

So what is the lesson here?

When you boast of God's Love to you, you will have a quick perception of who God is, will be closer to God and honored by God much more than you boast of your own obedience.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 14 2014, 04:16 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 14 2014, 04:25 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Oct 14 2014, 03:42 PM)
This is the Jewish expectations of the Messiah

http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm
*
Yes, very sad, that they don't recognize Jesus as the Messiah.

Matthew 23:39 - For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'"

Jesus was waiting giving them chances after chances in the Bible.

He will restore Israel and be the Government as they expected. He is from the Line of David.

God is still giving them chance even now through us. To stir them in jealousy.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 14 2014, 04:29 PM

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QUOTE(de1929 @ Oct 14 2014, 04:18 PM)
to add what UW has written:

A minister named Yusak Tjipto or Yusak Cipto has shared that it's impossible for human to obey God without divine help. a grace is needed.
There are lengthy explanations from spiritual perspective, devil accusation, tounge and declaration, etc...

Whilest UW didn't give solution how to boast our own obedience, I have some prayer and insight:

According to YOUR grace given unto me, I will obey YOU even to the very ends of the earth.

This simple prayer, will declare enough protection (i.e. GOD's grace) whitest you do your spiritual journey to obey GOD till very end of the earth. Without blanket / protection. Forget it.
*
Actually the lesson learned from these 2 types, it's better that you boast of God's love for you.
That will empower you better than we boasting our obedience.

You know why?

Our Love for God is never consistent. From Monday to Sunday, if you draw a chart, you will see what I say is true.
But God's Love for you is consistent. If you draw a Chart, it's 24/7 rclxms.gif rclxm9.gif Hallelujah!




QUOTE(GeekinE90 @ Oct 14 2014, 04:23 PM)
Out of the 70/120 disciples, there were 12 in the inner circle, and out of the 12 there were 3 - Peter, James and John and out of the 3, there was - John (Grace).  John was the only apostle who was delivered from martydom and lived till a ripe old age.
*
Yes, that too, missed out, thanks.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 14 2014, 04:36 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Oct 14 2014, 04:31 PM)
I believe that God will restore the Kingdom of Israel.

Unfortunately most Christians do not believe that.
*
oh you mean Israel replacement doctrine?

No lah. We can never replace Israel.

They are the first fruit of God, has been and will always be. We are the in grafted branch and because of their rebellion, Salvation is open to all gentiles (All of us).

God will restore them, don't worry.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 14 2014, 05:31 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Oct 14 2014, 05:24 PM)
ANYone want to boast?    biggrin.gif
Gal 6 

14But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
*
Yes that is correct,

God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ

Save here means except.

What is the Cross of Jesus Christ?

His Love to us. Boast of his love to us.


TSunknown warrior
post Oct 14 2014, 07:16 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Oct 14 2014, 04:01 PM)
Well, it does not sound like obedience to me.

It's being over passionate. I really do not know how you can even come out with the idea that he was legalistic.

That verse you are talking about was not talking about obedience. It was talking about forsaking Christ. Jesus was prophesizing that the disciples will leave him on the day he was crucified.
Peter being his usual passionate self said he will not forsake Christ.

I do not know how you can even interpret that verse from a legalistic view. You really need to take off your "legalistic" spectacles.
*
QUOTE(prophetjul @ Oct 14 2014, 05:20 PM)
i dont see Peter as a  type of Law.  Whereas the pharisees are the lawful typology.

However i do see Pride. And Pride goes before a fall.  God cannot use proud people. In many examples in scriptures God has to break His prophets down before He can use them  eg Moses, Samson, Peter
*
I'm perfectly okay if you don't see what is being taught in that lesson, but for those who do, it will help in their spiritual life.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 14 2014, 07:32 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 14 2014, 07:16 PM

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QUOTE(14-9-2015 @ Oct 14 2014, 06:45 PM)
Physical Israel la maniakam123  rolleyes.gif  Israel will be the power seat frm whr Christ  notworthy.gif  will rule during the 1000-yr millennial reign.
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QUOTE(General Fahmy @ Oct 14 2014, 07:08 PM)
who is that?

your good friend?
*
laugh.gif berapa kali kena ban bro?
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 15 2014, 09:57 AM

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QUOTE(General Fahmy @ Oct 14 2014, 06:28 PM)
I thought Israel is a symbolic word for God's people like Church is for God's congregation rather than a building.
*
Yes we are.

Galatians 3:7 (NIV) - Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham.


Nothing could be further from this truth. It didn't say there, those who are of Jewish descendant.

Therefore we have access to the promises and I can testify it's true.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 15 2014, 10:00 AM
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 15 2014, 10:12 AM

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QUOTE(General Fahmy @ Oct 15 2014, 10:08 AM)
yes but the other poster was saying that when we are save, we be transfer to the actual land of israel and live there with God.

hmm.gif not sure about this. I am not familiar with Revelation.
*
Oh you mean the New Earth, after this Fallen World is no more?

biggrin.gif Doesn't matter to me. Stay on new Earth or Visit Heaven. We can transcend time and matter in our new body.

Can visit-visit.


TSunknown warrior
post Oct 15 2014, 03:23 PM

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QUOTE(General Fahmy @ Oct 15 2014, 11:13 AM)
yeah sort of. The cg leader is more pleasant.

But as i said in my church, cgs are shrinking. If we count out his wife and his kids, our cg is only 5 people.

I think its fair to expect a cg to be like an extended family and friends. I once got lambasted in youth church, by a leader much older than me, because he told me off cg is not a social club. I said "what the?" Why not? I mean whats wrong with not having some edification and making friends? Why not the cg have some chemistry, is it a crime?

Its just like this sometimes during christmas or CNY, i feel really left out, I want to spend time with my brothers and sisters in christ but they too busy to celebrate.
*
CG is not a social club.

Bro coming to Church is all about knowing God.


TSunknown warrior
post Oct 15 2014, 04:18 PM

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QUOTE(General Fahmy @ Oct 15 2014, 03:56 PM)
You are right to say a cg is not a social club but when i brought it up to the egoistical leader, he said its not a social club. You haven't heard the whole story. During my youth days, i noticed some christians joined the big cg but they were sort of like obstracised and not given any hospitality. So they withered and did not came back because they felt they weren't welcome. When I ask the leader, he said "The cg is not a social club". His answer is unacceptable.

Aiyo, I have to explain everything to you, why can't you understand me, in concise manner? You mean to tell me that, the cg shouldn't be open to friendships and be nice to each other? What happen to edifying one another? So cg is just a meeting point whereby we meet and learn to know God better? Why can't we learn to know God better by understanding and knowing each other better?
John 13:34–35
“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

A cg that is hostile has no love and kindness of Jesus therefore, Jesus is not present among them.

I would not hesitate to leave the cg and cut off contact with a cg leader that is so autocratic.
*
Just curious, did you playfully kacau some amoi or tangachi in the cg during your youth or something like that? brows.gif

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 15 2014, 04:18 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 15 2014, 04:29 PM

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QUOTE(General Fahmy @ Oct 15 2014, 04:21 PM)
I not interested in their b****y amois.

I never even bother to speak to any of them.

Its the guys who are anti social maybe they think i want to ghey ghey them.
*
or is it you didn't pay attention during the lesson n kacau the guys? brows.gif
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 16 2014, 07:04 PM

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Manickam Manickam.

If it's you, it's you le, why want to hide?

You complain a lot as a person.

Complain aje.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 16 2014, 07:16 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Oct 16 2014, 02:12 PM)
He did compare with NIV also based on the article you sent.

Would not think so.

For example, for (thought for though) bibles like NIV or NLT. It's practically useless.

If we are serious about this, then we should look at the original text.
There are certain text that are known to be more reliable for example TR etc.
Also there is the integrity and biasness of the author.
There's normally a discussion saying which part of the bible is misinterpretated wrongly etc.

For example in KJV
Romans 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

NKJV
2 even the righteousness of God, through faith of Jesus Christ, to all and on all[a] who believe. For there is no difference;

NIV
This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,
Just the difference of "of" and "in"

The whole meaning has been twisted.

So that is why, to me NIV is practically not encouraged.

Even NKJV which claims to translate KJV to a more readable English is also suspect because if you look at the above. It does not really do what it claims to do.

As mentioned earlier, I have observed actual entire passages from NIV that are totally different from the rest of the other versions.

There are some bibles out there that are pretty reliable in translation
YLT, Geneva, KJV  etc. And perheps concordance.
*
That's not a misinterpretation. That's Old English.

Faith in the person of Jesus Christ.

You don't understand how language progress as time goes by, bro?

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 16 2014, 07:37 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 17 2014, 09:46 AM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Oct 17 2014, 05:22 AM)
Anyway
Amplified Version
Phillipians 2:6
6 Who, although being essentially one with God and in the form of God [possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God], did not think this equality with God was a thing to be eagerly grasped or retained,

New International Version
Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

Philippians 2:6 (KJV)
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.

Philippians 2:6 (GNV)
6 Who being in the form of God, thought it no robbery to be equal with God:

Guess the dynamic version is "better"
See Ngaisteve, I can show you hundred or thousand evidences.
But then, it will all be in vain.
*
Sylar111, I don't know what you see here but I'm seeing no contradiction.


TSunknown warrior
post Oct 17 2014, 09:58 AM

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QUOTE(De_Luffy @ Oct 17 2014, 09:49 AM)
he is just too orthodox to begin with believing what was preached to him is right other is wrong
*
The fact that he's angry all the time and jumpy, doesn't take much to get him emotionally compromised.

I think something is seriously wrong or still young, belum matang? I don't know.
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post Oct 17 2014, 10:13 AM

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QUOTE(De_Luffy @ Oct 17 2014, 10:08 AM)
he is just a small kids cowardly person i would say his own insecurity he pushing it onto other also targeting other with his own doctrine which he believed is right all the time
insensitive to other opinions or views............does it make sense? he need further rehabilitation i think
*
No the things is, doesn't matter whether you're a student or working.

Getting angry all the time does not help the spirit man as a Christian.

James 1:20 (KJV) - For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
James 1:20 (NLT) - Human anger does not produce the righteousness God desires.

This means it hinders the fruit of the spirit.


*don't remember seeing him happy or cracking a joke, at least. (What I mean is lighten up)

* Same goes to the older dearer bro, prophetjul. icon_rolleyes.gif laugh.gif

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 17 2014, 10:23 AM
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 17 2014, 10:18 AM

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QUOTE(General Fahmy @ Oct 17 2014, 10:16 AM)
I think the verse also covers submit to one another.

Submission is not only to authority is also to your subordinates too.

I believe there's a big misunderstanding in that issue, in that christians always think of submitting to their leaders, but leaders also shuld submit to their members, as in husband and wife submit to one another.

For me its like this, without love, kindness and compassion in whatever ministry, cg and church I am in, the submitting part is out of the question. I cannot submit to a leader that have no love for his own sheep. If he talks unkindly, like the leader who told me that cg is not a social club when i raise the issue of clickishness and boycotts in the cell, I left. Why? He totally cannot grasp the concept of Jesus being kind and compassion, and he totally misunderstood my contentions of joining cg thinking that I want to join for social purposes.

About that church, its located in Kajang, it has no leader - confirm.
*
Manickam123,

It's not like that. Submission to people in authority is something that's required from God.

Meaning to say that, don't be a hero lah, just be humble. If really cannot reconcile, then just move on (which is what you did anyway) but without the attached baggage of unforgiveness.

meaning also dun keep on harping old issues.

* I have my share of what you faced, anyway.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 17 2014, 10:26 AM
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 17 2014, 11:49 AM

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QUOTE(General Fahmy @ Oct 17 2014, 10:58 AM)
Who is that? You can address me as General.

Unforgiveness is quite a grey area. That day I sat with some elderly christians and we had a discussion with that. Many came up with their own versions. One elderly man had quite an interesting view, he said he will forgive but he never forget.

Another one said he forgives but he is wary of the personality of the person. He lent money to the person out of good grace but that person use it for wrong purposes and continue to ask him for money, so the christian brother say he is more careful that the person attitude because of the way he ask people for money.

How do you forgive and yet let go the pertinent issues? Like for me, I now know how to get out of a cg that can't function as one. I learn from bible study about Jesus kindness and compassion. If a cell group is hard up on just studying and doing work for God without even enjoying the ministry (i believe God's wants us to be happy and enjoy what we do) and they are suspicious about new people (even after 3 years) and clickish about their own members, then I can see the red flags.

Never forget means we learn something from this.

Forgiveness means when we see that person, you won't punch him in the face. bUT you give him  a big pat on the bag (with a lot of strength) to tell him what a good job he's doing but remind him he's a bit deviated from his goal. And smile and hug him so hard that he can't breath.
*
Forgiving is to forget holding any wrong done against you.

Though you may not forget about the incident but you can choose to forget being angry or hurt.

I take this and apply with what Paul mentioned about forgetting about the past and move on with the baton in your hand, running the race.

That is Biblical Forgiving. For those who can totally forget about the incident, it's God's grace.

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