I see~~

If you're not a Christian, you might find my explanation rather irrelevant, these days I'm not interested into long rebuttal with a non believer, waste of precious time as you put it.

The truth of God's word transcends time, past present and future. It applies throughout generations and the days to come even the future if God wills it.

First of all, God is not against people receiving their living. It saddens me to see sometime people try to exhibit legality holiness when it comes to money beyond even what God has warranted.

In of Church
1 Corinthians 9:14 - In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.
1 Timothy 5:18 - For Scripture says, "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain," and "The worker deserves his wages."

and outside of Church
Luke 10:7 - Stay there, eating and drinking whatever they give you, for the worker deserves his wages. Do not move around from house to house.
2 Timothy 2:6 - The hardworking farmer should be the first to receive a share of the crops.

Yes you are right, people can give their tithing other than money, like time and skills but you have to understand that even God knows we all have our needs and those intangible resources can't pay the economics of living. (Matthew 17:27)

It's really up to each individual to give. (2 Corinthians 9:7)

We can't dictate how preachers of the Gospel should receive their living (whether material or intangible) but I believe they have a right to their living.

I agree, that was the point that I was trying to make.



Although I am amazed at Sophie's discourse that her old church had a dependent pastor who was unable to make ends meet. Notice that even the disciples had jobs while they were following Jesus around, they didn't just drop their vocations and follow Him around 24/7.

That's a rather tall order to live up to.

I'm someone with great flaws and still learning and seriously far from what people expect from a Godly Man.

The grace of our Heavenly Father is why I'm here.

but thanks for the encouragement anyway.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jun 18 2014, 04:35 PM

He has tried to find employment but failed. Law of South Africa cannot be applied in Malaysia. English class also tak jadi.

I would appreciate to not immediately jump into conclusions that we do super extravagant needless things.

I knew a South African pastor who was married, he had to divorce and go back to his country. Name was Wayne (i think). Orang putih.

I'm not going to argue with you, we can do that over sotong (although I would rather not), but unless someone has some kind of disability it is very hard to understand how one can be jobless.

Owh declan jangan gaduh kat sotong. Nanti we kena tiau+troll by notious
Though I'm not sure if he's free to fetch me >_<

i will be too busy eating sotong la >.<

No one is perfect
But in God's eyes we are perfect.

Brother and sisters are meant to take care of each others back ,that's how we encourage each other

I don't mean to defame or insult anyone. I just disagree very much that funding is less important than volunteer. Ministry should consider all aspects to be of equal weight.

If the pastor is full time, it IS his job to look after the sheep, ie members. That itself, takes up a lot of time. It's not just preaching on Sundays, visitations, counselling, giving Bible studies, conducting prayer meetings. Visitation & counselling takes up the bulk of their time. If the church has 100 members or more,can imagine.

If your church is small, then can have lay pastor but the lay pastor cant do much cos he has a day job. Any emergency cant immediately go.
I was helping one of my assistant pastors, from morning to night the pastor is busy with ministry. She was overseeing 3 ministries, I only serve small part in one ministry already have so many things to do.

It's not less important. It's equally important.

Just for the record, no believers of Christ should feel condemn if they're unable to help.

That's why I posted my explanation to spacelion, those who are able to give consistently has been given a gift indeed.

Not everyone has this gift.

My theological perspective from scripture, tithing is important. If everyone tithe truthfully, Churches should not have financial difficulties.

I mean if you are able to do this, you have already done a huge part of helping out the body of Christ, that is from world perspective, if only they understand tithing is more than that. It's a declaration of Faith and declaration proclaiming God is alive.

Problem is, not many Christian believes in tithing. They have 101 excuses when it comes to parting money. Sometime I just shake head, some people can scream till the cow comes home contesting in knowledge how much they know the bible, how much they love God but when it comes to money, every tune start to change.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jun 19 2014, 12:03 AM

this is not about tithing.

Tithing, offering, Love gift, whatever, still points to money issue.

There's an issue that goes deeper than what you see on the surface.

Amen, you know your Bible.

We need to see things as How God sees it.

Romans 4:17 (KJV) - (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

what can I say, as we aged, we go through a lot of things, and there will be one certain point where God really make us alert .
Each one of us is learning God's words everyday.

True that, through His Words, we are being set free.

Matthew 10:8
God said,come to me all you who are weary and burdened,and I will give you rest.

do you attended any church right now? if you are not, i invite you to come to Klang Chinese Methodist Church located between Jalan Mohet and Jalan Bukit Jawa, our weekly service start at 9am every sunday and we have our youth service on every friday start at 8pm at old block.

if you are interested to join our English Service at old block start at 9 AM every sunday except on the first week of the month, we will have holy communion service combined at new block.

more info at www.kcmc.org.my.

Nopes not attending anything at all. Not that interested either. Just wanna find some quiet place with a great inspirational religious environment to write some poems about life sometimes

But thanks for the invitation. Probably might just drop by one day.

This post has been edited by rphoen1x: Jun 19 2014, 08:53 PM

GOD PAYING ATTENTION NOT TO RIGHT AND WRONG BUT TO CHRIST

In our natural being we cannot avoid the concept of right and wrong. We tend to think that if we do something right, we are pleasing God, and if we do something good, we are in His shining. We seldom realize that what God pays attention to is beyond goodness and beyond right and wrong. What God pays attention to is whether we do things out of Christ or out of ourselves. According to our concept God rejects what is wrong and accepts what is right. In God’s view, however, only that which is of Christ is acceptable; whatever is of ourselves, whether good or bad, is utterly rejected by God. God’s view is different from man's view. God does not take right and wrong or good and evil as the criterion; He takes Christ as the criterion. Whatever is not of Christ, whether good or bad, is not acceptable to God. Only that which is lived out in Christ and by Christ can be accepted by God. In short, what God wants in us is not what we live out but what Christ lives out through us.

THE DIFFICULTY OF MAN IN CEASING HIS ACTIVITIES

However, there is a big problem. Since man is a living being, having his own preference, thinking, emotion, will, and choice, how can he not live out himself? How can he cease all his activities and let Christ live out through him? This is truly a difficult matter. Not only is it difficult to stop ourselves in big matters, it is even more difficult to stop ourselves in small matters. For example, if we are really enjoying ourselves in a conversation with someone, it is not easy for us to stop ourselves. Even if we stop talking outwardly, we may still murmur within. It is difficult for us to simply listen while others are telling us something. This shows us that when a person is active, it is not easy for him to stop his activity.

In the service of the church today we often do things out of ourselves. Apparently, the things we do are good, right, and profitable, but actually they are done out of ourselves. We may even know that we do them out of ourselves, yet it is still difficult for us to stop. To a certain extent we all have experienced this. Consider reading the Bible as an example. Sometimes while we are enjoying reading the Word, we may get an inward feeling that we should spend a little time to pray for the church. According to spiritual principles, once we have such a feeling, we should immediately stop reading and pray instead. However, usually we are not willing to stop. This again shows us that it is not easy for us to stop our activity.

It is the same with the matter of fellowship. Sometimes we may fellowship with someone to a point where we are full of joy and want to continue talking with him, but we have a feeling within us that we should go visit a saint who is sick or has a problem. It is one thing to have the willingness to fellowship with others, but it is another thing to have the feeling to go and visit the saints. However, because we are too willing to fellowship, we are unable to stop, and because we are enjoying the fellowship, we would not visit the saints.

Bible Devotions with UW

How do you live the New Life?



I want to address to Christians who are struggling to live the new life that Christ has given you.

Sometimes in the course of our lives, we may slip here and there, falling short of the mark, God has set. You feel there's a distance from God, you feel condemn.
And sometimes Preachers enforce, you MUST do this and that and this, You MUST REPENT!, YOU MUST CONFESS, YOU MUST LOVE GOD, followup with a message of condemnation.
GOD WILL JUDGE every action and every words. They meant well but the focus is wrong because it hinges on the believer.

What does the Bible say?

Hebrews 12:2 - Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith.........
1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 - May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The one who calls you is faithful, and he will do it.

WHO IS the author and the finisher of our Faith? Jesus. WHO IS the one who sanctify us and keep our spirit, soul and body blameless? WHO WILL DO IT? Jesus.
Look at the 2 verses above. Anywhere in there, that says we are the one who need to exert the work to make ourselves righteous, living the new life? No.

Let me begin by saying the new life doesn't come through exerted will power of our own. It will only Fail if you do through that. (Romans 7:19)
"I must not sin, I must not sin, I must not sin, etc" It doesn't work through the flesh.

Consider these 2 chapters
Ephesians 4: 21-24
21 when you heard about Christ and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. 22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

Colossians 3: 1-10
1 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. 5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.b 7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9 Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10 and have put on the new self, which is being [B]renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator[/B].

So here is the revelation. The new life comes through the change of mind. (Knowledge) Question. change of what mind? Answer: the knowledge in the image of it's creator (Colossians 3:10)
What do you mean? What is the knowledge in the image of it's creator? Answer: to Know that you are now in Christ. The more you see yourself in Christ, that Christ has removed your sins, made you whole, made you new, washed you, sanctified you, cleansed you and be convinced in the mind, YOU WILL CHANGE.

I'll leave you with this last verse for the day.

Romans 12:2 (KJV) - King James Bible
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

I pray that this will help you in your spiritual life.

God Bless.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jun 21 2014, 09:27 AM