Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Bump Topic Topic Closed RSS Feed
14 Pages « < 8 9 10 11 12 > » Bottom

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

 LYN Christian Fellowship V7 (Group), Bible Hope never disappoints!

views
     
ngaisteve1
post Oct 14 2014, 12:39 AM

Software Engineer
*******
Senior Member
6,779 posts

Joined: Dec 2005
From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 14 2014, 01:18 AM)
I think we all have our small group in Church, don't we?

This is just going to add in more schedule in the week.

I rather invite you guys for conferences or seminars.
*
Actually I am not requesting you to form a small group to the people in this thread. I am saying that it is important that to have a small group for our spiritual growth. I feel the importance and the need of it. I have mine. In fact for years. In the past, we have one-on-one 'discipling' but that way was replaced with 'small group' practice for some reasons. But we do still remain 'one-on-one discipling' for young Christian (those just got baptized maybe until one year old as Christian). Although it could improves more, it does make a difference to me especially looking back 16 years as Christian. Just to encourage that you guys to form your own 'small group' too preferably those whom you can meet up consistently to help one another to be more and more like Christ, to love God and one another (first and second greatest commandment) and to encourage another for the mission to seek and save the lost too (the great commission).
ngaisteve1
post Oct 14 2014, 10:06 AM

Software Engineer
*******
Senior Member
6,779 posts

Joined: Dec 2005
From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(de1929 @ Oct 14 2014, 08:51 AM)
Mr Yum cha  icon_rolleyes.gif ... It looks like only you have passion to drive for cell group in this forum.  thumbup.gif

Do you mind post again ur availability, phone no, church location or anything necessary (like the first time you introduce yourself long time ago)... Just to bring awareness to a few new readers here.

if u don't mind..
*
Mr Yum Cha? laugh.gif

My church is at PJ, seksyen 19, 5 minutes from Digital Mall there.

Church website - http://www.malaysiachurch.org/

Those who do not have church or keen to visit our community, are always welcome ya icon_rolleyes.gif
ngaisteve1
post Oct 14 2014, 11:03 AM

Software Engineer
*******
Senior Member
6,779 posts

Joined: Dec 2005
From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 14 2014, 11:26 AM)
He is the Triune God.

God the father.
God Jesus Christ.
God Holy Spirit.
When I address them, I address them as Dear God not Dear Gods.

They are One God but Trinity. They are not lesser in power in comparison to each other.

Some people think the Ranking is like this.

1) God the father.
2) God Jesus Christ.
3) God Holy Spirit.

Actually No.

Actually to be honest 14-9-2015, no human being can explain this.

We Christian just accept it as it is.

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God sent to dwell in all Believers.
The Bible says, He is the guarantee deposit that guarantees us Salvation in Heaven.
The Holy Spirit is a Teacher, who will guide us into God's truth.
God The father Speaks/communicate to us through his Spirit, The Holy Spirit.

That is why Christianity is relationship with God, it's not a religion.

To me religion is just repetitive rituals void of personal relationship with God.

Hope that helps.
*
and the Holy Spirit is a gift for the believer/Christian who repented and baptized. Acts 2:38
ngaisteve1
post Oct 14 2014, 03:58 PM

Software Engineer
*******
Senior Member
6,779 posts

Joined: Dec 2005
From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Oct 14 2014, 04:51 PM)
Don't misunderstand. I wasn't attacking your point, just giving you additional insight.
What gives you that idea anyway?
The Bible has many life application from multiple angle.
I'll tell you why I say Peter is a type of Christian under the Law.

Remember about Peter's denial of the Lord?

What happened?

Jesus said, all the disciples will fall away on account of Him (Matthew 26:21)
And Peter boasted "Even if all fall away on account of you, I never will." (Matthew 26:33)
And Peter said this in front of all the disciples!  biggrin.gif

That is like saying, God I will obey you! Even all these other disciples can't!

And we all now what happened next. He betrayed Jesus with cursing and swearing some more.

What is the lesson behind this?

He typifies the type of Believers today who boast of their own obedience to God.

Lord I will obey you even to the very ends of the earth. Be careful when you boast as such, you'll find it hard to complete it just like Peter.
*
i also didn't know this peter's law insight hmm.gif
ngaisteve1
post Oct 15 2014, 02:24 PM

Software Engineer
*******
Senior Member
6,779 posts

Joined: Dec 2005
From: Kuala Lumpur


Yeah should treat cell group (we call it 'bible talk' group') as social club group. It is not the same. Although we can also chat about anything in the 'cell group', but there need to be some spiritual agenda in it. For example pray together, study the bible together, reach out friends (evangelism purpose), and all those 52-one-another verses in the bible basically..so that we can be more christ-like.
ngaisteve1
post Oct 16 2014, 10:43 AM

Software Engineer
*******
Senior Member
6,779 posts

Joined: Dec 2005
From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(General Fahmy @ Oct 15 2014, 05:15 PM)
friend, if you are to pray for the cg member next to you, you have to know him better. Right?

We all know Jesus is a compassionate Lord. Recall the miracle of 5 fish and 2 loaves? Jesus and his apostles were in a desolate area but thousands of people came to see them. The apostles wanted to shoo them away because they had no food to feed them. But Jesus showed concern for them, he decided to take whatever food they had and miraculously fed thousands of people.

If you have no heart for the brother/sister next to you in cell group, how in the world you can have heart and love for Jesus?

Just as the so-called brother who tell me off that cg is not a social club, just shows our hardened his heart was. I see zero kindness and compassion in him. He thinks he has Jesus love, but when he can misunderstand my statement to think that i came to cg to social social, I see no Jesus love in him just his own eg. But my assertion is as God's children why can't we be nice to each other.
*
Yeah it should be a loving and warm community. Just that sometimes we got a little drifted away between the fine line (social club vs christian small/cell group)
ngaisteve1
post Oct 16 2014, 10:45 AM

Software Engineer
*******
Senior Member
6,779 posts

Joined: Dec 2005
From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(sylar111 @ Oct 16 2014, 11:00 AM)
Well look into this more carefully.

Anyway, just to let you know. I do not really trust the NIV.
*
Which version/translation you trust? Why don't trust NIV?
ngaisteve1
post Oct 16 2014, 11:30 AM

Software Engineer
*******
Senior Member
6,779 posts

Joined: Dec 2005
From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(sylar111 @ Oct 16 2014, 11:55 AM)
KJV or Geneva bible version

Well. Some of the translations are actually wrong.
*
oh KJV. Why you prefer KJV?

I have learn more about choosing a good translation from this book (Chapter 2). I will quote some content from the author here:

The sixty-six books of the Protestant Bible were originally written
in three different languages: Hebrew (most of the Old Testament),
Aramaic (a sister language to Hebrew used in half of Daniel and two
passages in Ezra), and Greek (all of the New Testament). We assume
that most of the readers of this book do not know these languages.
That means, therefore, that for you the basic tool for reading and
studying the Bible is a good English translation, or, as will be argued
in this chapter, several good English translations.

To read the whole chapter , here is the link - http://stockholmlife.se/wp-content/uploads...d_The_Bible.pdf


ngaisteve1
post Oct 16 2014, 11:44 AM

Software Engineer
*******
Senior Member
6,779 posts

Joined: Dec 2005
From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(General Fahmy @ Oct 16 2014, 11:58 AM)
Yes, thats what I am looking for. I didn't say I was looking for social club, I was looking for my family!

I don't see anywhere wrong in opening some hospitality.

It goes a long way to foster stronger ties and grow matured christians.

Like the youth cell I attended when youth in cheras, it was big about 60 to70 people but they play a lot of politics and they are very clickish. They got like 12 leaders there, they think they really like Apostles, BAH ! Ptooi

But they act like jerks, they siphon people they don;t like there and obstracize them. They are very strict on the word, they go and buy books from Saddleback church and every week got video lessons. Ok, thats good. But hey, where is the fellowship?

I ask some of the leaders, and you know what? A jerk told me off that they too busy with church ministry to be friendly. He just making excuses. This dude goes to the same bible study every day, and he just pass by me without even acknowledging me. I wanted to pat him real hard on the back (an excuse to say hi) but indirectly I wanted to pat him so hard that he feel it ! Kapao !

I understand that christians are not perfect, we make mistakes and are fallen sinners but at least some form of kindness to reflect that you are a human being.
*
Yeah not all christian community/church is the same or perfect. Same are too relational that they didn't emphasize enough one each other's discipleship. Some is vice versa. Some are more balanced between relationship (love) and the truth. If you see anything to improve, maybe you can voice up respectfully to build up. When we become part of the kingdom of God, it is like a spiritual family and thus commitment and acceptance is needed. We are to bear with each other's weaknesses. We are to accept (strength and weaknesses of people). Myself I also see weaknesses in my own church in this 16 years. There are times I get critical about it. But I have learned that this is my spiritual family which means I shouldn't leave my family no matter what. I should learn to build up rather than just being critical or complaining. I should learn to contribute in spite of just waiting being negative about it.

But if you feel that the entire church especially the full time church staff also 'one-kind' or totally 'off' spiritually continually, then you might consider to change to another church which you can grow and contribute.
icon_rolleyes.gif
ngaisteve1
post Oct 16 2014, 11:45 AM

Software Engineer
*******
Senior Member
6,779 posts

Joined: Dec 2005
From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(sylar111 @ Oct 16 2014, 12:37 PM)
Well since I do not know Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic,
I have to then rely on accurate translation.

I think it is well documented that NIV is not accurate.

KJV is not the most accurate but then generally it is more reliable.
Basically in NIV, you can find passages whereby the entire meaning actually changes, that is how inaccurate it is.
*
For example which passage? Which documentation that NIV is not accurate?
ngaisteve1
post Oct 16 2014, 12:32 PM

Software Engineer
*******
Senior Member
6,779 posts

Joined: Dec 2005
From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(General Fahmy @ Oct 16 2014, 01:04 PM)
Yes I am considering.

The cheras one is a youth church, not really my church, i attended as a youth. But that church really give me the hibby jivies. I know I am not suppose to judge but when it comes to knowing which church i should go to, i think i have a right to say that cheras church which is near to tesco, is a very bad church.

Yeah you are right to say that the church is our spiritual family and submission to authority is one aspect that i have difficulty to follow. I try my best but really when there's no compassion and kindness from the fellow members, I don't think the church is right for me. That was the cheras church.

The current church is not perfect, I have been there for 8 years. This mega church at least still ok ok. If I offended some members, I at least can make new friends. But recently I made a big mistake when i shared some personal stuff with a bald head cg leader. When I found out that he slandered other cg leader and members of his own cg, I had a hunch he is going to say some nasty stuff about me based on my sharing.

I still attend the cell but in the long run, I am not sure to remain there.
*
Hopefully you will find the right one for you eventually. But bear in mind, no 'perfect' church one nod.gif
ngaisteve1
post Oct 16 2014, 12:33 PM

Software Engineer
*******
Senior Member
6,779 posts

Joined: Dec 2005
From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(sylar111 @ Oct 16 2014, 12:51 PM)
Very hard to think off hand.

I did discuss one passage with another person proverbs something cannot remember
and find the reason why we are in disagreement is because the passage from KJV and NIV was totally different.

I compared that NIV passage with the other versions and it's totally different.
*
It's okay. Maybe once you can remember, then we can share here to discuss sikit
ngaisteve1
post Oct 16 2014, 12:54 PM

Software Engineer
*******
Senior Member
6,779 posts

Joined: Dec 2005
From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(de1929 @ Oct 16 2014, 01:34 PM)
I oso don't know greek, hebrew, aramaic... so i can relate to your concern...

now to added our concern / fear / awareness  icon_question.gif  .... did you know that
actually there no Father's house at the end. The translator added that house because the translator "is trying to help the reader" about the whole context. What whole LOL ...

it should be:
"Why were you searching for me?" he asked. "Didn't you know I had to be in my Father"

In my Father and in my father's house are two different things lahh... c'mon translator. thx for your help but no thanks. next time just leave it as is.
*
I want to encourage you guys to read the chapter 2 of this book - http://stockholmlife.se/wp-content/uploads...d_The_Bible.pdf

I feel that the author wrote it pretty well about this translation thing. Actually is it not easy to be a translator. It is a collaborative effort of many scholars and they are unbias towards any denomination
ngaisteve1
post Oct 16 2014, 02:03 PM

Software Engineer
*******
Senior Member
6,779 posts

Joined: Dec 2005
From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(sylar111 @ Oct 16 2014, 02:53 PM)
Nope.
The more translator the worse.
Actually they can be biased because they now have to create a bible that everyone "agrees"

Somehow word for word is the best. But even then, the translator must not be biased at all. Because even when interpretating word for word, the translator can still misinterpret certain words which may change the whole meaning.
*
Have you read that chapter 2? hmm.gif
ngaisteve1
post Oct 16 2014, 03:28 PM

Software Engineer
*******
Senior Member
6,779 posts

Joined: Dec 2005
From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(sylar111 @ Oct 16 2014, 03:58 PM)
A literal interpretation is always much better then a not so literal interpretation like the NIV.

The reason is very clear. You are reading the Word of God. Not man's interpretation of the word of god.

After reading the first page which says that KJV is too literal, I dun think I would want to read the rest.
*
So fast close up already?

Anyway, I think there is no perfect translation la as each has its own plus and minus. As the author suggested, it is use a primary translation and use few others good one for reference when unsure of the point or meaning.

Just wondering, don't you find it hard to read or understand KJV with those old obsolete English?

----
Translational Theory :

Literal: The attempt to translate by keeping as close as possible
to the exact words and phrasing in the original language, yet still
make sense in the receptor language. A literal translation will keep
the historical distance intact at all points.

Free: The attempt to translate the ideas from one language to
another, with less concern about using the exact words of the original.
A free translation, sometimes also called a paraphrase, tries to
eliminate as much of the historical distance as possible.

Dynamic equivalent: The attempt to translate words, idioms, and
grammatical constructions of the original language into precise
equivalents in the receptor language. Such a translation keeps historical
distance on all historical and most factual matters, but
“updates” matters of language, grammar, and style.

----

QUOTE
The best translational theory is dynamic equivalence. A literal translation is often helpful as a second source; it will give you confidence as to what the Greek or Hebrew actually looked like. A free translation also can be helpful—to stimulate your thinking about the possible meaning of a text. But the basic translation for reading and studying should be something like the NIV.

The problem with a literal translation is that it keeps distance at the wrong places—in language and grammar. Thus the translator often
renders the Greek or Hebrew into English that is otherwise never written or spoken that way. It is like translating maison blanc from French
to English as “house white.” For example, no native English-speaking person would ever have said “coals of fire” (KJV, Rom. 12:20). That
is a literal rendering of the Greek construction, but what it means in English is “burning coals” (NIV) or “live coals” (NEB).

A second problem with a literal translation is that it often makes the English ambiguous, where the Greek or Hebrew was quite clear
to the original recipients. For example, in 2 Corinthians 5:16 the Greek phrase kata sarka can be translated literally “(to know)
according to the flesh” (as in the NASB). But this is not an ordinary way of speaking in English. Furthermore the phrase is ambiguous.
Is it the person who is being known who is “according to the flesh,” which seems to be implied in the NASB, and which in this case
would mean something like “by their outward appearance”? Or is the person who is “knowing” doing so “according to the flesh,”
which would mean “from a worldly point of view”? In this case the Greek is clear, and the NIV correctly translates: “So from now on
[since we have been raised to a new life, v. 15] we regard no one from a worldly point of view.”


This post has been edited by ngaisteve1: Oct 16 2014, 03:44 PM
ngaisteve1
post Oct 16 2014, 07:16 PM

Software Engineer
*******
Senior Member
6,779 posts

Joined: Dec 2005
From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(sylar111 @ Oct 16 2014, 07:45 PM)
It is not about the perfect translation. It's translating with integrity. Having the heart to translate the word of God as accurate as possible without adding the own meaning in so as not to taint the Word of God.

Well, reading the Bible is not the same as Reading a story book or a text book. You are talking about the Word of God here. And you want to make sure that what you read is not distorted. Even though it's harder to read the KJV. I sleep better knowing that what I read has not been distorted.

I really do not know how you can consider Dynamic Equivalent acceptable. I just shown you that just changing the grammer even 'of' with 'in' will distort the whole meaning away. Unless you want to just have a casual understanding of what you read and accept other people's opinion instead of the actual words of God then be it.

When I told you that NIV has certain section in it that is totally different from the other versions, I wasn't joking.

Even seminary students do not take NIV seriously. Taking NIV as a study material is an embarassment. And I am talking about seminary students who do are not so serious about the Word of God. So obviously, the words of this author cannot be taken seriously.

But since to you NIV is the acceptable version, then nothing I say will change your mind. You can read from man's interpretation of God's word.
*
Just wondering are you from Catholic church?

Discussing only. Relax la. Not that I declare NIV is the best or what.

Later I quote more points to refute
ngaisteve1
post Oct 16 2014, 08:10 PM

Software Engineer
*******
Senior Member
6,779 posts

Joined: Dec 2005
From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(de1929 @ Oct 16 2014, 08:48 PM)
Bro, consider this sentence as case study to translate from english to indonesia:

English: Jesus Loves Me
Indonesia: Jesus cinta saya or Jesus kasih saya

(i am indonesian so kenot talk malay/tamil/chinese hehehe)...

i tell u bro, it's not 100% accurate to translate love to either cinta / kasih. Love is not cinta Love is not kasih either. so the integiry of word love is only the luxury of english speaking. For indonesian the best match is either cinta / kasih.

to add, some indonesian translation, the translator add something like this: Jesus cinta saya dengan murni. cuz cinta has some "eros / sex" attribute, therefore translator add "yang murni" which means: pure.

Why not kasih: Kasih is the act of giving. different story n context lol...

and that's only 1 verb lol... sure from hebrew to english there are a lot of adjustment being done. either by adding or something.
*
Ya imagine chinese literal translation. the grammar is opposite direction i think.

as i have said translation job is very tiring job. i think niv take 10 years to translate a version.
ngaisteve1
post Oct 17 2014, 09:55 AM

Software Engineer
*******
Senior Member
6,779 posts

Joined: Dec 2005
From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(sylar111 @ Oct 17 2014, 03:25 AM)
Normally when someone tells me this,
I get very insulted.

But for your case, I will make it an exception.
*
Sorry, I don't mean to insult. Just that in my mind, Catholic use KJV. So i am ask to find out only.


ngaisteve1
post Oct 17 2014, 10:10 AM

Software Engineer
*******
Senior Member
6,779 posts

Joined: Dec 2005
From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(General Fahmy @ Oct 17 2014, 10:05 AM)
oh that one, one gang lah will do praise and worship. They got people in charge of worship.

But the church got no leader one. Everybody is leader.
*
Hebrews 13: 17 - Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.

Church should have leaders oh, otherwise it will be like below:

Judges 21:25 - In those days Israel had no king; everyone did as they saw fit.


ngaisteve1
post Oct 17 2014, 11:26 AM

Software Engineer
*******
Senior Member
6,779 posts

Joined: Dec 2005
From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(General Fahmy @ Oct 17 2014, 11:58 AM)
Who is that? You can address me as General.

Unforgiveness is quite a grey area. That day I sat with some elderly christians and we had a discussion with that. Many came up with their own versions. One elderly man had quite an interesting view, he said he will forgive but he never forget.

Another one said he forgives but he is wary of the personality of the person. He lent money to the person out of good grace but that person use it for wrong purposes and continue to ask him for money, so the christian brother say he is more careful that the person attitude because of the way he ask people for money.

How do you forgive and yet let go the pertinent issues? Like for me, I now know how to get out of a cg that can't function as one. I learn from bible study about Jesus kindness and compassion. If a cell group is hard up on just studying and doing work for God without even enjoying the ministry (i believe God's wants us to be happy and enjoy what we do) and they are suspicious about new people (even after 3 years) and clickish about their own members, then I can see the red flags.

Never forget means we learn something from this.

Forgiveness means when we see that person, you won't punch him in the face. bUT you give him  a big pat on the bag (with a lot of strength) to tell him what a good job he's doing but remind him he's a bit deviated from his goal. And smile and hug him so hard that he can't breath.
*
It is good to reallize the issue and forget and forgive (ready to forgive anytime) and move on.

14 Pages « < 8 9 10 11 12 > » Top
Topic ClosedOptions
 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.1064sec    0.50    7 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 9th December 2025 - 09:10 AM