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 Lightning protection, Lightning proctection in house

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tengster
post May 28 2014, 07:46 PM

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QUOTE(silent_killer @ May 28 2014, 05:47 PM)
Yes they install and conceal in the building itself, I have seen their work, but because the cable size they use is too small so when lightning strikes it cannot withstand such immense power going through therefore doesn't serve any purpose.

For surge protection, they only seems to install in big bungalows, for normal house they wouldnt bother
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Even for bungalow, no developer will install surge protector. No developer is such a nice soul in the world.

The one possible place to have it installed if the bungalow come with lift in which lift panel is very prone to surge-related damage. This surge protector is only good for surges. For proper lightning protection system, a good Faraday Cage is required.
tengster
post May 28 2014, 07:47 PM

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QUOTE(silent_killer @ May 28 2014, 03:53 AM)
i would recommend http://tokai.com.my/solutions/esp.html they r the first company in Malaysia that started lightning & earthing industry. Developers nowadays want to maximise profit and save cost, so lightning protection installed by developers is very minimum.
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Beside Tokai, Pekat teknologi is another competent contractor. Basically they use similar products i.e. furse, novaris and approved equivalent.....
tengster
post May 28 2014, 07:50 PM

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QUOTE(exkaizen @ May 12 2014, 08:29 PM)
Got my house installled with SPD..  hopefully it wilk protect all equipment in my house.
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Make sure you protect both power line and data line....
tengster
post May 28 2014, 07:55 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ May 28 2014, 02:47 PM)
I have seen those new banglo which cost RM2-3mil at some new housing area. Those house is at the very very high percentage of kena lightning area. But didn't see any SPD in the house. Probably hide somewhere.
THere is no corelation between incident and new housing area. There are only corelation between incident to location, building height, protection level and maintenance.

Location = Malaysia has at least 200+ lightning day per year. Certain area in MY are more prone.

Building height = the higher you are, the closer you are to the clouds where lightning originated.

Protection level = look at Faraday cage....ESE is not reliable despite whatever the suppliers claim. Go Singapore NationAL Science Centre to check out the effectiveness of a proper Faraday Cage... Protection level also includes the three tier surge protection level.

Maintenance = Seen anyone maintain those lightning protection system or SPD?
tengster
post May 29 2014, 05:18 PM

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QUOTE(hebronep @ May 29 2014, 05:10 PM)
I used Pekat Teknologi to install Surge Protection and Lightning Protection for Setia Eco Park home as the home (3 storey high with lift) is higher than the  2 storey homes nearby. Expensive but with lightning flashing around during thunderstorms ...  (Weather is not like when I was a  young man. Nowadays heavier rains and frequent close-by lightning strikes.)
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hebronep - So far, any problems....any damage incurred? I think the weather is the same lah. Just that nowadays we have more sensitive equipment that are prone to surge damage. Last time, we still swim naked in river or ex-ming pool despite thunder clapping kau kau...or we are still playing bola sepak lumpur till dusk ro gelap. tongue.gif

Theorectically, yearly maintenance is required to verify the earthing conductivity, continuity of the Faraday cage (from top to ground) and also to check on the SPD......This may cost some money.
tengster
post May 29 2014, 05:35 PM

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QUOTE(hebronep @ May 29 2014, 05:27 PM)
No problems so far ( 3+ years).  I also installed a lighting monitor (on-top of copper cable from roof to ground copper rods) which reads how many direct lightning  strike on the home.  I will read next time I am in Eco Park home.

Surge protection will filter out all the power line communication signals. No use to use power line communications if you intend to install surge
protection. Better to position the wireless router in optimum location such that reasonable signals can be received in all parts of the home.
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hmmm..lightning counter is good for lightning. this little device clamped onto the copper tape may not read surge attack...but good to have...


tengster
post Jun 2 2014, 11:03 AM

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QUOTE(westom @ Jun 1 2014, 10:05 PM)
Apparently important numbers were ignored.  That ground in a wall receptacle is not earth ground.  Codes require a safety ground.  Electrical characteristics such as 'less than 3 meters', no sharp wire bends, no splices, and ground wire separated from other non-grounding wires are critically important.  Please grasp important references to low impedance to appreciate a difference between 'safety' ground and 'earth' ground.

Lightning is best connected to earth via a direct hardwire connection.  A next best solution implements the same low impedance, earth ground connection via a 'whole house' protector. Then 20,000 amps connects low impedance (ie 'less than 3 meters') to earth; creates a near zero voltage.  A resulting near zero voltage means no energy dissipates destructively in appliances.  No appliance damaged.

Protectors adjacent to appliances cannot earth that energy.  Too close to appliances and too far from earth ground electrodes.  These devices must somehow block or absorb energy.  This different device, also called a surge protector, does not claim to protect from destructive surges.  Instead, it only claims to protect from surges typically so small as to be made irrelevant by protection already inside appliances.

Sometimes a surge too tiny to harm an appliance will destroy a grossly undersized and adjacent protector.  A failed protector did not do protection.  The appliance protected itself.

Concepts such as wire bends and wire length can subvert an earth ground connection.  For example, connect a 200 watt transmitter to a long wire antenna.  Touch one part of that long wire to feel near zero volts.  Touch another part to be shocked by over 100 volts.  Why two voltages on the same wire?  These electrical characteristics explain why a wall receptacle's safety ground is not earth ground.

Effective protector must be located adjacent (ie 'less than 3 meters') to a single point earth ground.  Last four words also have electrical significance.  A protector too far from single point earth ground (ie connected to a wall receptacle) is not earthed.  And does not even claim to do what an effective 'whole house' protector does.

Rather than ignore relevant numbers, appreciate these electrical concepts even defined in IEEE standards. What many mistake as an earth ground is really only a safety ground.  This difference explains why best protectors are distant from appliances (ie up to 50 meters) and as close to earth ground as practicable.  Please do not ignore the expression 'low impedance'.  Protectors without that 'low impedance' connection do not claim to protect appliances from destructive surges.  Ignoring that voltage discuss implies you did not understand an important concept: impedance.
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notworthy.gif good sharing...

Can share with you how to size SPD accordingly? Let say for a bungalow nod.gif
tengster
post Jun 2 2014, 07:00 PM

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QUOTE(westom @ Jun 2 2014, 06:55 PM)
A protector must not fail.  So what will be a typically largest surge?  Lightning is typically 20,000 amps.  So a minimal SPD should be rated at least 50,000 amps.

SPDs have an indicator light that only reports one type of failure.  If its indicator light reports any failure, then the SPD was grossly undersized.  Then a 100,000 amp protector is probably necessary.

SPD is only one part of a 'system'.  SPD must be sized to not fail over many decades.  The 'system's effectiveness during each surge is defined by the other and more important component - earth ground.  'System' effectiveness for each surge is defined by the quality of and connecton to single point earth ground.

Protectors are simple science.  Earthing is an 'srt'.
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Why are we using SPD to protect our appliances from direct lightning exposure? Arent deviate from the intention? Lightning Protection System such as Faraday cage is protect our appliances from direct lightning. I seriously think there are no SPD that can protect one from direct hit...

SPD is normally used to protect more sensitive equipment from lightning-induced surved or other form of surges.

note - SPD = surge protection device
tengster
post Jun 2 2014, 07:25 PM

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QUOTE(westom @ Jun 2 2014, 07:18 PM)
So how often is your town without phone service for four days after each storm?  A typical bulding may suffer a major surge every seven years.  But the telco's computer is connected all over town.  Thefore it suffers about 100 surges per storm.  And without damage.  Because protection from direct lightning strikes has been that routine for that long.

If protection from direct strikes could not exist, then telephone operators would remove headsets and leave the room with each storm.  Reality.  Even 100 years ago, that was unnecessary.  Because protection from direct strikes was that well understood that long ago.

Protection uses a proven concept similar to a Faraday cage.  But a Faraday cage is compromised if even one wire in any cable does not first connect to what performs a Faraday cage effect - single point earth ground.  That is what a protector does.  Protection is compromised if a protector does not make that low impedance (ie 'less than 3 meters') connection to single point earth ground.
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Afaik, KL has not experienced 4 days downtime on phone service.

I am getting more confused with your post. Just now, you are talking about SPD sizing and now you talking about my town, building, protection...Faraday cage that is compromised.....Faraday Cage mostly used copper tape from top to bottom.....only very limited occassion, they use cable.

I think I have to stop reading your post to avoid confusion. Pemikiran berserabut, payah pembaca. icon_rolleyes.gif
tengster
post Jun 2 2014, 07:37 PM

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QUOTE(westom @ Jun 2 2014, 07:34 PM)
Of course not - as I said.  KL must have long used a 'whole house' solution.  Their switching computer is threatened by about 100 surges with each storm - without damage.  Because surge protection routinely makes direct lightning strikes irrelevant.

If you read something the first time and understand it, then it did not introduce anything new.  If a concept is this new, then it should be reread at least three times. You did not understand a simple example of direct lightning strikes without damage.

I never said KL suffered 4 days of downtime.  Please read what was posted.  I said KL never experiences 4 days of downtime because protection from direct lightning strikes is routine.  So routine that damage is traceable to a human mistake.
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my apology.

 

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