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 Lightning protection, Lightning proctection in house

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liawei
post Apr 18 2014, 02:16 PM

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QUOTE(ashly @ Apr 18 2014, 12:14 PM)
Hi,

May I know anyone using any lightning protection in the house?
Is it good to have or nice to have?

Please advise.

Thank you.
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It is up to individual. Installing lightning surge protection is just like buying insurance. It is there to help you when you need it. If you have none, it is always too late when disaster happened.

In short, there are 2 general protection categories:
1) Outdoor protection- lightning rod, to protect the building structure from direct lightning strike
2) Indoor protection- SPD (Surge Protection Device), installed inside the Electrical DB (Distribution Board), to protect all electrical appliances

Frankly speaking, perhaps this is also Malaysians' mentality, 90% of my customers install the lightning surge protection only after the lightning strike disaster occurred. The damages are far more expensive than the cost of installing an indoor surge protection device. "I should have installed it earlier...." is what I heard most of the time. It is always too late for them to know that starting from RM500 to have the whole house protected by industrial grade professional lightning surge protection device. I'm not talking about those plug-n-play type of power extension with built-in surge protection function.

Check out my company website to understand the differences between those power extension and the professional protection.
www.LightningSurgeProtectionMalaysia.com




liawei
post Apr 18 2014, 04:54 PM

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QUOTE(exkaizen @ Apr 18 2014, 03:16 PM)
interested on this... how much is the cost with installation for double story house with astro & streamyx? I have those belkin & cal-lab but if it can stop from surge at earlier stage much better and cost to buy belkin & cal-lab is not cheap as well if you need to buy more than one or two
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Exactly. Blocking the surge current at the 1st entry point is definitely more effective.

Imagine this:

Belkxx or others:
1) protects only 1 power socket, how about those direct connections (not using socket) such as air-conditioner, water heater, CCTV, alarm panel, autogate? You can't protect them.
2) to protect more sockets, you need to buy more. Accumulated cost is even higher than whole house lightning surge protection.
3) surge current travelling from power DB --> MCB --> ELCB --> CB --> travel around the house --> meets the Belkxx --> Belkxx divert surge current via earth wire --> earth wire surge current travels back to socket --> DB --> Earth wire --> Earth pit...........Can you imagine: the thieves already broke into your house then only you chase them out?

Professional Surge Protection Device (SPD):
1) Protects everything uses electricity, be it plug/socket or direct connection
2) Imagine this: Block the thieves from entering your house

You know which method make more sense.

Srtarting from RM500 including professional installation with 16mm2 cable, and soil resistence test, electrical safety test by trained professionals to ensure your whole house is protected.

Please leave your details at Professional Lightning Surge Protection, we will come back to you with practical and affordable lightning surge protection solution.

This post has been edited by liawei: Apr 18 2014, 05:02 PM
liawei
post Apr 18 2014, 05:37 PM

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There are some misconceptions here. Let me explain:

1) ELCB is designed to cut off power in the event of current leakage, not surge current. It is not designed to arrest/divert surge current. Perhaps you had the ELCB tripped during lightning strike and you were just plain lucky that the surge current was not strong. In developed countries, it is mandated to have ELCB and SPD (surge protection device) installed in order to get CF for new houses. But in Asia countries, only ELCB made compulsory but SPD is not mandated.

Forget about the rocket science explanation, just remember in short:
ELCB : To protect human
SPD: To protect electrical items
Outdoor lightning rod: To protect building structure

2) Unifi (fiber optic) is immune to lightning surge

3) Streamyx (copper) is very prone to lightning surge damage. Surge current travel through the telephone copper wire and damage your modem, and further downstream. RJ11 surge protection is a must.

4) All surge protection devices rely heavily on the condition of earth connection. The best lightning surge protection is useless if the earth grounding is bad.

5) Don't be surprised, 20% of the houses I visited have electrical safety problems. Some example of the problems:
- earth resistance very high.
- missing earth continuity from socket to DB
- wrong polarity in the socket
- wrong selection of CB, ELCB
- many more.......

People simply take safety for granted.

This is Bolehland, endless possibilities.
liawei
post Apr 18 2014, 05:57 PM

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QUOTE(supersound @ Apr 18 2014, 05:43 PM)
Still, it need to do conversion, right?
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Since the fiber optic doesn't carry any currents from the port (the TM green box) outside your house to your fiber termination unit inside your house, you are safe. Any decoding/conversion done within your house is safe.
liawei
post May 28 2014, 02:12 PM

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QUOTE(agas3i @ May 28 2014, 10:40 AM)
Hi all,

I just moving in my new house in Nilai. Regret that, the ELCB always trip during the thunderstorm/lightning. Almost everyday after coming back from work, ELCB trip. MCB did not trip.

The electrician who installed the fan/lamp said the house is using 40A ELCB. He advice to change for a higher rating i.e 60Amp.

I suspect that the grounding is not good enough.

Any advice/idea on how to overcome this problem. Im afraid it will effect others electrical appliances.

Thanks guys.
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Your electrician is not solving the problem.
1) he did it right to change to 62A ELCB, which is common for residential in Malaysia. 40A was too small.
2) however, frequent tripping has nothing to do with 40A or 62A.
3) frequent tripping can be caused by:
A) poor earth connection as you suspected.
B) weak wire insulation somewhere in your house.
C) leakage current from some electrical appliances.

You can do:
1) identify which circuit breaker trip or is it random
2) get professional to measure earth value

You must not do:
1) don't simply listen to any electricians ask you to replace 100mA ELCB to a 300mA ELCB. This will reduce the sensitivity of ELCB trip but compromise on safety. This action is not solving the root cause and added the risk of electrocution.


liawei
post May 28 2014, 02:21 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ May 28 2014, 09:21 AM)
I don't see any developer in here that have install surge protector for your house. Even minimum level. Or an expensive bangle.
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99% of houses in Malaysia don't have SPD. Developer will not add such additional cost unless it's an RM2mil and above property then slightly higher chance it will have the SPD.

Tokxx is big company working with developers, and expect big price from them as residential is not their key focus.

liawei
post May 29 2014, 07:57 PM

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QUOTE(aquaria87 @ May 29 2014, 02:07 PM)
How much the cost..how they http://www.lightningsurgeprotectionmalaysia.com make the calculation? based on power socket or how? or number of fuse in the DB?
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The pricig of the SPD based on:
1) maximum surge current needed- 20/40/60/80/100/120/150kA
2) classification of surge protection- class 1/2/3
3) Brand- price varies very much with different brand and technology
4) single phase or 3 phase power line.

Usually the price range from RM400-RM2500, depending on the selection of the above criterias.

big or small house doesn't matter.
Electricity consumption doesnt matter.


liawei
post May 29 2014, 08:06 PM

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QUOTE(Longshot @ May 29 2014, 11:28 AM)
Click the link and i got this:

Bandwidth Limit Exceeded
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The site is up now.
liawei
post Jun 3 2014, 01:10 PM

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QUOTE(paskal @ Jun 3 2014, 10:06 AM)
so now the protector is highly dependent on earth ground? you said the ground inside the receptacle is not earth ground?
and i quote:

is that cable going from the distribution box to the earth? the large copper cable?

oh yes we already have those in our distribution box. how is that different from your suggestion? your 3 meter rule? move the service entrance/distribution box? so you're suggesting that we move our DB to somewhere where it doesn't breach your 3 meter rule? how about if i live in a condo?
primary protection = installed by utility, correct?
secondary protection = lightning arrestor, correct?
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Utility companies never installed any so called "primary protection" for you.

Primary protection is the SPD installed at the 1st entry point, that is in the DB. In Malaysia, 99% buildings do not have it. Don't mistakenly assume the ELCB as SPD. In advanced countries, ELCB+SPD must be installef in order to get CF. Too bad in Malaysia and other SEA countries, SPD has been omitted due to poor awareness.

Secondary protection is the additional protection installed at the point of use.

Both primary and secondary protections are heavily relying on good earthing. "3 meter rule" is just a layman term guideline. In reality you can hardly see the earth path that is less than 3 meters.What important is the soil resistivity. You may have > 3 meters earth wire but as long as it is thick enough and connected to a earth rod with <5 ohm earth resistance, it is perfectly fine.
liawei
post Jun 4 2014, 12:09 AM

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QUOTE(paskal @ Jun 3 2014, 08:49 PM)
didn't you read? westom already said the primary protection is already installed by the utility.
and i quote:

and i quote another one:

he's right. so you must be wrong.
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Ok, I'm so wrong. smile.gif
Go ask TNB what kind of primary protection they have put in for you.
liawei
post Jun 6 2014, 11:41 PM

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QUOTE(westom @ Jun 5 2014, 10:46 AM)
Please read what is posted. Nobody said tnb installed a protector.  Again you read only what you want to believe.  An EE need not reread those paragraphs.  Since concepts were taught to every first year EE.  You do not even understand ground differences.  This layman simple concept identifies which protectors  protect from destructive surges.

Obvious was what tnb installed.  With insufficient EE knowledge, you even confused a protector and protection.  And did not even know what impedance is.  Any first year EE would know that.

You were asked to reread what you ignored.  Define what you understood.  And then ask about concepts that confused you.  You refused to even do that.  It would expose no EE training.  So you attack the messenger.  Any EE would know why various grounds are electrically different.  Would know why different voltages can exist on the same wire.  And would immediately grasp why a 'whole house' solution is routine in every structure that cannot have damage. Instead, your disparaging remarks now become cheapshots.

A properly earthed 'whole house' solution is required with or without adjacent protectors.  Since protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate. Always.  A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Fundamental to any reader who asked for effective protection.

Homeowners should also inspect their AC utility installed protection (as described in an earlier post).  Do not let naysayers confuse you with cheapshot attacks.  And claims devoid of basic EE knowledge (ie no numbers).  A protector connected within meters to single point earth ground is the only solution found in every structure that cannot have damage.  This best solution is also a least expensive solution.
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Westom, I do appreciate the info you have shared and I'm totally agree with your comments. Just that not many people understand your technical languages.

For the sake of layman readers, may I help you to summarize:

High rating SPD (only those installed in the DB) + good earth (your so called "3 meters rule" or I call it <5ohm) = 99.5% protected.

Agree?
liawei
post Jun 7 2014, 09:53 PM

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Professor likes to make it complicated......

 

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