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 RPGT for property disposed >1year, Can it be 0% if no profit made???

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AppreciativeMan
post Mar 12 2014, 04:52 PM

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QUOTE(Dino168 @ Mar 12 2014, 04:42 PM)
For property bought within 1 year, RPGT is 30% on profit.   

Question : if there is no profit made (e.g. S&P price minus all expenses is lower than selling price); is it valid for RPGT=0%??    Agent told me cannot ... must have a minimal profit (if so, what is that min amount) ... otherwise will get into legal problem. 

Seeking advise from experts ... if that agent pulling a quick one on me??  If property bought at wrong time, then forever cannot sell.
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Please note that the Tax dept has their own valuation of your prop.... Your valuer may value RM1 mil, Tax dept may value it as RM1.2 mil....
AppreciativeMan
post Mar 12 2014, 05:02 PM

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QUOTE(Dino168 @ Mar 12 2014, 04:59 PM)
But can't one sell below tax dept valuation value for some reason e.g. urgent need of $???
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u can sell.... jus they may think you get paid additional out of S&P price.... everybody trying to avoid paying tax will probably tell the same story isnt it? I dont think Tax dept is a charity house.... tongue.gif tongue.gif

This post has been edited by AppreciativeMan: Mar 12 2014, 05:04 PM
AppreciativeMan
post Mar 12 2014, 11:13 PM

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QUOTE(jolokia @ Mar 12 2014, 06:29 PM)
UUU campers will say u bloody liar, now all property price UUU, how come u making loss,  vmad.gif

Be a responsible citizen, Just pay the tax lah !  shakehead.gif
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u shld stay in "4 Critical Signs of a Bubble Market", other thread is simply not suitable for u.... u may cause the thread to move into kopitiam..... whistling.gif whistling.gif
AppreciativeMan
post Mar 14 2014, 10:00 AM

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QUOTE(jolokia @ Mar 13 2014, 05:42 PM)
I thought the one cause 4 CSOBM is the public transport passenger with 2 660K Condo ??  tongue.gif

How many dozen of RPGT threads i seen, those admin/staff/mod all keep blind eye, yes lucifah & cherroy i do mean u 2.  cool2.gif
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How many dozen of DDD threads I seen....... Yrs after yrs..... Till date nothing prove right at all....... tongue.gif
AppreciativeMan
post Mar 14 2014, 10:16 AM

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QUOTE(Chaud @ Mar 14 2014, 10:09 AM)
30% is on your sales price, not profit. so if you make no profit, you still have to pay 30% RPGT tax if you buy and sell fast. (rugi)
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RGPT = Real Property Gains Tax
Please be sure of your knowledge before sharing.....
AppreciativeMan
post Apr 3 2014, 07:09 PM

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QUOTE(gunh @ Apr 2 2014, 09:31 PM)
RPGT has nothing to do with property valuer.  Is the taxable amount from nett gain.  And nett gain is the amount u sell ( stated in snp) minus amount u buy (also stated in your old snp) and minus all the expenses incurred (such as leal fees, agent fees and renovation to the said property)

Please dont provide misleading information
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Excuse me..... U better speak to your lawyer before saying I'm feeding misleading information.....
If u transact your selling way below market price and declare without profits, TAX dept may impose their own market price as calculation......
Go ask first.....
AppreciativeMan
post Apr 4 2014, 09:25 PM

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QUOTE(bearbearwong @ Apr 4 2014, 09:11 PM)
Smart dude ... your world class work is framed here..I wonder now....tapao me balik pulak..
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So wat is the problem with the statement? rclxub.gif rclxub.gif
Obviously u don't even understand wat I'm referring...... doh.gif doh.gif

This post has been edited by AppreciativeMan: Apr 4 2014, 09:27 PM
AppreciativeMan
post Apr 4 2014, 09:38 PM

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QUOTE(bearbearwong @ Apr 4 2014, 09:27 PM)
You dare accussed me dunno diffetentiate when I  fact It was you.. linking valuer with RPGT which was correctly pointed out by gunh.. remembrr
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I'll repeat.....
If prop bought at 400k.....
Now sold or transact at 300k......
Market valuation is at 700k......
Tax dept MAY NOT accept the 300k the transaction price for calculation of the RPGT..... They may hav or determine the 700k as market value for calculating the RPGT......
So does it consider they hav their own valuation?
sweat.gif sweat.gif sweat.gif
AppreciativeMan
post Apr 4 2014, 10:18 PM

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QUOTE(bearbearwong @ Apr 4 2014, 09:50 PM)
There is only 1calculation of RPGT..
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rclxub.gif rclxub.gif rclxub.gif
doh.gif doh.gif doh.gif
notworthy.gif notworthy.gif notworthy.gif
AppreciativeMan
post Apr 5 2014, 12:37 AM

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QUOTE(UFO-ET @ Apr 4 2014, 11:37 PM)
Willing buyer willing seller basis
Under declared is illegal but owner has the full right to sell any price tat he/she think is appropriate, authority has no right to question the fair value of the property, separate valuation is carried out for the purpose of stamp duty calculation.
RPGT only refers to old and new SPA price.
Tax dept can only question the undeclared amount (settle in cash) between the Purchaser and Vendor.
Not all the purchaser willing to under declare the selling price.
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Not exactly true...... Authority reserve their rights to look into any transaction if they think the prop was not transacted in full value or under declaration to avoid RPGT.....
"Not all" means there are such cases isn't it....... If the purchaser has a long term plan of holding the prop 20-30yrs..... They will consider under declare the transaction where seller may give better discount too........
There are things that hardly happens..... But it doesn't means they do not hav that rights....
AppreciativeMan
post Apr 5 2014, 04:24 PM

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QUOTE(gunh @ Apr 5 2014, 10:14 AM)
I'm not sure where you got your information substantiate from.  I can even sell the house at Rm1 to someone I like and draft the S&P and get it legalised.  What make you say I cannot sell the house below market price and Tax dept will come after me?  I guess you are the one that should go to speak to your lawyer.  You are indeed giving misleading information here.
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Since when i say cannot sell below market price?? doh.gif doh.gif
AppreciativeMan
post Apr 5 2014, 04:27 PM

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QUOTE(gunh @ Apr 5 2014, 11:51 AM)
Let say what you say is correct, 25(1) has not relation with 25(2), but in 25(2) which sentence specifically mentioned if we sell the asset below market value, LHDN will come after us?
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LHDN "MAY" come after, not "WILL"! doh.gif doh.gif

I do agree hardly ppl will do such act or challenging the authority..... but if there is such an act taken, u mean the authority got no rights to take any action against both party, jus because both party already signed SPA at an agree price of RM1??

This post has been edited by AppreciativeMan: Apr 5 2014, 04:37 PM
AppreciativeMan
post Apr 5 2014, 08:08 PM

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QUOTE(gunh @ Apr 5 2014, 06:33 PM)
I've made my point.  If you read it positively then thats good.  But you can always choose to read it negatively.
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You hav yet to make it clear..... And u r the who read my point negatively.....

QUOTE
I do agree hardly ppl will do such act or challenging the authority..... but if there is such an act taken, u mean the authority got no rights to take any action against both party, jus because both party already signed SPA at an agree price of RM1??
No answer to the above question?
AppreciativeMan
post Apr 5 2014, 11:11 PM

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QUOTE(gunh @ Apr 5 2014, 08:57 PM)
Is not up to you or me to say who read who negatively. 
In legally binding contract, there must be an condition or you called it an offer and an acceptance.  The RM1 is just an example.  When someone made an offer, and another guy accepted it then the transaction will valid as the condition of an legal agreement is met. 
this sentence is refer to your post above. "What make you say I cannot sell the house below market price and Tax dept will come after me?"
You may want to argue the word "MAY" and I have use "WILL".  Ok, that's my mistake, but the point is noted here and by reading the post as whole and not few words.
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I hav never mention doubt abt legality of the contract or SPA.....

I mention..... LHDN reserve their rights to challenge the "under declare" transaction price... They come after their "income" not against the legality of transaction....

So the simple question "DO LHDN HAVE RIGHTS TO QUIRES YOUR TRANSACTED PRICE IF ITS WAY BELOW MARKET VALUE?".........A simple "YES" or "NO"....... u hav yet to answer this question after your challenging statement stating i provide misleading info....
AppreciativeMan
post Apr 5 2014, 11:13 PM

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QUOTE(tikaram @ Apr 5 2014, 09:31 PM)
Another so call investor club taikor doing attacking.
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Worst then a CRY BABY..... doh.gif doh.gif doh.gif
AppreciativeMan
post Apr 5 2014, 11:31 PM

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QUOTE(edyek @ Apr 5 2014, 11:18 PM)
Chill boss..  biggrin.gif  I think there is a misunderstanding here... You are right about the right to query, and gunh is right about the contract.

So both of your info is not wrong...  icon_rolleyes.gif
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I'm still cool.... icon_rolleyes.gif
I dont challenge something I'm not 100% sure.... nor i'll provide info where i'm not sure..... if not sure then use words like, "maybe", "i think" and etc lor..... Dont use so firm words like, "will", "cannot" and etc
RPGT is something i was trying to work around it 2-3 yrs back.... I think i hav gathered sufficient info to kno wat is my risk, wat are their rights, pro & con and etc..... wink.gif wink.gif
A simple logic, if the authority MUST accept whatever we stated in SPA transacted price, i think there will be lots of ppl already underdeclare the transacting price to avoid RPGT..... They wants their income, u still can keep your SPA transacted price....
icon_rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by AppreciativeMan: Apr 5 2014, 11:38 PM
AppreciativeMan
post Apr 6 2014, 11:09 AM

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QUOTE(UFO-ET @ Apr 6 2014, 10:43 AM)
Chief, I hv to correct yr above sentence, in normal circumstances, >90% can't afford (or not willing)  to fork up so much cash to buy property.
Imagine a property worth RM1,0 mil, if both agree to settle at RM500K, then the purchaser needs to come out :-
RM600K cash (90% loan) to buy
RM700K cash (70% loan) to buy

In order to under declare, a few conditions need to be fulfilled:-
1. Vendor willing to take the risk
2. Purchaser willing to take the risk
3. Purchaser's / vendor's solicitors encourage this arrangement, normally purchaser will seek advice fr lawyer and most lawyer will discourage it
4. Buyer wants to save on legal and stamping fees (& a little bit of MOT)
5. Purchaser has extra cash as mentioned above
6. Purchaser has extra cash but willing to proceed with this arrangement
    i. Like myself, I hv spared a lot of cash with me now but I dun want to spend all the cash in a single transaction, I would rather find ways to secure as much loan as possible to buy more properties, unlike old days, many buyers buy for own stay only, but nowadays we find tat many purchasers are trying to reserve more CASH to invest more properties
  ii. Buy cheap now, sell later within 5 yrs will kena higher amt of tax (as gunh claimed)
  iii. The risk of being cheated by seller, lawyer will not handle this type of "special arrangement", for those undeclared amount is going to be settled between both vendor and purchaser outside the lawyer firm, take the RM1.0 mil example :-
- Shall the Purcahser settle 500K cash prior to the signing of SPA? (Purchaser not willing)
- Shall the Purchaser settle 500K cash after the signing of SPA? (vendor not willing)

In my experience being an agent, if there are 100 cases tat the vendor willing to under declare the price, only <3% of the purchasers willing / able to comply / accept. It is not easy to do

My 2 bakuli smile.gif
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Bro...... Whatever pointers u hav raised above, I'm fully aware.....
However, u have to read this sentence as a whole...
A simple logic, if the authority MUST accept whatever we stated in SPA transacted price, i think there will be lots of ppl already underdeclare the transacting price to avoid RPGT.....

AppreciativeMan
post Apr 6 2014, 11:15 AM

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QUOTE(gunh @ Apr 6 2014, 09:53 AM)
Bro,

Please refer to your post 3 on page 1. I find your relate the rpgt with the property valuer findings. Thats why i want to make clear to the reader here. I'm sure you aware property value duty.

On the lhdn reserved rights to investigate your transaction i'm not sure. But they can always use clause 25 on act 1976 if they smell or suspected something fishy.

I apology if i made or cause any misunderstand. We just want to shared what we aware here so other reader will be benefit from reading it.
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Your acknowledgement is appreciated. icon_rolleyes.gif
On the valuer statement, I may not hav explain full explanation.... However, LHDN still has "relation" to valuers...... It may not be directly linked to them, but they would still at all time aware of prop value in order to spot out any under declare transaction..... U can't fully cut away ties between them...... icon_rolleyes.gif
AppreciativeMan
post Apr 6 2014, 11:20 AM

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QUOTE(UFO-ET @ Apr 6 2014, 11:13 AM)
I know
The problem is with the purchaser, not the vendor
If it is not illegal, I think majority of buyers can't afford too
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If one can save "this much amt of money" legally without problem...... U'll kno the full meaning of "If there is a will there is a way"...... And the outcome is definitely shocking.....

This post has been edited by AppreciativeMan: Apr 6 2014, 11:21 AM

 

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