I had been missing from this forum, obviously busy with my new DIY.

To add a shower screen it also affects the floor tiles, the basin location and re-install mirror.

Here this is how the original bathroom look like:


The other side view: the toilet


Another side view: the rain shower


This is how the floor tiles look like:


From far


This post has been edited by stevie8: Feb 19 2014, 02:47 AM

The bathroom is 6x7 feet. 6 feet from door to mirror and 7 feet from toilet side to windows.

Before DIY there was a shower curtain as you can see from the pix below, the shower curtain rod from the door at the rain shower to which it cuts across the basin sink.


The reason to have a glass shower screen was when bathing the whole room floor get wet. And when it was wet using the toilet or sink have to wear shoes or slippers.

There was no other logical choice. The new glass shower screen have to be at the shower curtain rod position. Meaning to replace the rod curtain with the glass shower screen. To have a glass shower screen was to relocate or move the basin and the mirror to the left.

Problem was the basin was too wide (36 inches) to be relocated to the left as the toilet would not be moved. The only choice was to replace with a smaller size one.

Next, for the floor it was either making a curb for the glass to sit on it, with a drain hole across it, as there was only one drain hole on the shower side or re-tile making the "dry" area an inch higher than the shower "wet" side.

Instead of making a curb (which was the easy choice) I decided to tile the dry side one about an inch higher and left the wet side as it was because the tiles had stained and hard to clean with stained lime especially on the white color tiles.

As you may know, tile on tile may not stick so I applied two coats of Sika Top so that the new tile glue/cement could adhere well to the old tiles. And the line was drawn and sika top applied see pix below. From the first coat (the near side) can still see the image of the covered tiles and the 2nd coat (the far side) completely cover the tiles from view:


to be continued....

This post has been edited by stevie8: Feb 19 2014, 03:10 AM

Tiling.

The new tiles dry area has to be level. This is to accommodate the installation of the shower screen that has to be level flat. Also if I were to choose swing door, a slope floor will not allow swing door to open wide as the bottom will hit the higher slope side of the floor.

Normally for tiling it should start from the middle and cut pieces at the wall so that the cut pieces are not too thin but at least half. But the existing floor sloping from the door side to the other end drain hole. I have to start from the door/high side. The first piece need to fit the door edges. A template was used using paper.

Cutting tile curves to meet the oval shape of the toilet bottom.

Again paper is used to make templates. Here the one of the pieces, at the wall edge.


To cut the tile into half, I do not have tile cutter, I used glass cutter. Score a line and break it like this, a clean nice cut:


Then putting back the template for cutting the curve using angle grinder.



Make a score first on the tile surface


Then cut deeper and then turn over and cut from the back of the tile by using the same template and cut through it.

The finishing tiling


Next installing shower screen glass piece by piece...

Installing shower screen??? Not yet. Got to remove the basin sink and remove the bolts from the wall.


The basin was removed and the expansion bolts 4 pieces could not be pull out. I cut the bolts and push them into the wall and plastered.

Sliding or swing door?

I choose swing door because opening and closing is easier.

Since it is 6 feet long (and 34 inches wide) I chose to have 3 pieces screen with the door at the middle, 24 inches fixed panel, 26 inches door and around 20 inches remaining fixed panel like this.

Side view


Top view


This means the hinges are the glass to glass type. As per diagram above the door opening has to be on the shower side where the hinges are away from the shower head. this is so to keep water seeping to the other side.

I order 2 pieces of 10mm tempered glass first and not 3 pieces at one go. This will allow me to measure accurately the final piece after installing the first 2 pieces.

Fixed panel is RM18 per sq foot, door or anything that need cutting is RM20/sq ft. Since the first piece fixed panel also need to be cut to hang the hinges it is RM20 per sq ft.

Price:

1. 24" (2 feet) x 72" (6 feet) x RM20 = RM240
2. 26" x 6' x RM20 ---> 30" (2 1/2') x 6' x RM20 = RM300. They charge nearer to the next 6 inches or half foot.
3. Door sweep 8 feet = RM25
4. Glass to glass shower hinges with auto shut at 30 degree 2 way opening = RM300. If no auto swing is RM200.
5. Stainless steel L handle = RM120
6. 20 x 20 setting block =RM5.

Total now RM990. Not cheap la. Still got one more panel to order and other things.

Door sweep for the bottom of the door keeping water away


The L handle



This post has been edited by stevie8: Feb 20 2014, 02:04 AM

The main reasons I wanted to DIY :

1. I want it frameless. No one who are in this industry agreed and all want me to have U channel. So no choice have to DIY
2. I want a fine job, good workmanship especially on applying silicone on glass. Also things like little or no gaps, equal or near perfect height of all the 3 pieces of glass.

The first piece installed

Thanks for appreciating my sharing.

Floor trap? Hmmm... Great question.

There is no floor trap. In modern living other than the shower area everything else is "dry". In fact in the dry area there will be a piece of nice thick carpet on the floor at the sink standing area.

There will be no water or water flow, no need. Imagine our living room, bedroom, etc there is no floor trap. The toilet dry area is just one of these rooms same and the way to clean it is same, not like old fashion toilet. Time has change. In olden days, you could not imagine how could a toilet be built inside a bedroom! what's more many houses their toilets were built outside the houses!!! Today this is made possible by the seat toilet (not the squad type) clean and hygienic and also our sewerage system.

Likewise, the wet market, dirty, wet, wet, wet. Now super market has "wet market" selling fish, meat, vege without the dirty wet floor and so no floor trap. Also a modern houses/ especially apartments need no wet and dry kitchens. One kitchen will do with efficient hood and hob system, electric oven, fridge and cabinet. The hob with gas burner or electric burner, not fire wood or charcoal. With hood, not chimney. And fridge keeps the food odor in or rather preserve the foods and no odor. The cabinets are for keeping plates, pots and pans, etc, not food.

So, I want to go a bit modern and build the shower screen lor.

This post has been edited by stevie8: Feb 20 2014, 04:11 PM

You can do same if you want to. First you got to like doing it yourself. 2nd you got to scarify your free time. No tv, litter internet ( i have not been on facebook since), then some research.

Swing out is important in emergency. Imagine if someone fainted inside and his/body is blocking the door opening???!!! You cannot open the door to safe him/her. You can't climb over the glass and even if you can climb over and if the shower room area is too small to move him/her aside and two of you inside a cram area to open the door. The only way is to break the glass And it is 10mm tempered glass, moreover 4 to 5 times harder than normal glass See mine open both side

Open to the inside


Open outside

Aiyah, the laying of tiles is done. Why need to soak? The original tiles cant seep or suck up water except the grout lines, maybe only the sika top. Anyway I tried to remove one of the semi harden tiles, I could dug up the tile but the cement glue stuck hard to the floor and sika top and I had to hack it.

They do not believe the strength of silicone glue. By just using silicone glue without U channel they think the glass will come off. In their minds they only see that only if screws and/or bolts locked into concrete will it hold. With U channel they will drill holes into the floor and screw the U channel into the floor and wall and then the channel is filled with silicone and glass is place into the channel.

Frameless is elegant and classy just like a one big piece of frameless mirror, compare to a framed mirror with stainless steel frames on two sides and two other side no frame, not nice.

As a diyer before doing the job for the first time we usually do testing and experiment and sometime even prototype. I tested the silicone glue on the left over tiles and acrylic which I would let the shower screen glass sitting on top of it. Here is the result of the test in the pix. I could not pry open the silicone that glued between the acrylic rod and the tile. To force it I would break the acrylic rod. The only way was bending the acrylic rod and using a blade cutting the silicone glue. Unlike acrylic rod, as for the tiles that cannot bend I could not even insert the blade in between them. See pic, hanging them on the tree.


Also, I tested the acid based silicone. It just couldnot stick on to the acrylic. But that is a different story for the neutral based silicone, it stuck as per the experiment.

Acid based that cant glue to acrylic plastic


100% RTV Neutral Silicone Glue that works well with acrylic


Not only that. I also compared and tested the imported GE silicone sealer as in the picture above with this locally made X'traseal. The locally made proved to be better The GE USA made costs RM24 for a small tube. The xtra seal only RM7 a tube.

Here another pic of the silicone test

Again angle grinder was use to cut the bolts that hang the old basin. Picture below show the right side bolts had been cut and push inside. Using tape and newspaper to cover the tiles in case accidentally cut the hit the tiles with the angle grinder.

When the 2 pieces of glass was delivered, the first piece which is the side panel was chipped due to carelessness of worker during transportation. The workers agreed it was badly chipped and said to bring back to factory to polished the chipped part. I was wondering how could they polish a tempered glass. True, the factory people called up said it could not be polished but to make new one for me.

The moral of the story is inspect before you accept delivery. Even for hard tempered glass it chips or scratches.

The fixed panel temper glass was supposed to sit on the setting block which made from rubber or cured silicone and is translucent brownish. I have to cut 2 pieces at the height of 10mm and width not more than 10mm so that it is not wider than the 10mm tempered glass panel and to be seal in silicone glue. The height need to be exact 10mm to accommodate the door bottom as the door sweep is 10mm.

Instead of the setting block which I paid RM5, I decided not to use it, and used acrylic sheet. So I went and bought one piece 10mm 6"x24" and cut two pieces of 10mm width. The reasons for using acrylic instead of the rubber setting block

1. Acrylic is transparent, clear and see thru better than glass. Whereas if i use setting block there would be 10mm of silicon glue at the bottom with two setting blocks. Silicone is not transparent when it is thick like 10mm and it becomes translucent and blur.

2. When it is soft, the setting block if I were to cut 10mm height, with the heavy tempered glass sitting on it it should sink and could be 9mm or 9 1/2mm, too much of trials and errors. Also, the first piece will hang the door and that will sink further and become uneven. This is how heavy the door 26" x 72", 64lbs or 28kg. Imagine you carry a 10kg rice bag. This is 3 times! How woiuld two rubber blocks hold 2 pieces of 2' x 6' temper glass ?


3. It is not a problem for the hard tempered glass to sit on acrylic which is plastic and this acrylic should not disintegrate as early as setting block.

4. Of course it is the look i like.

Of course it will last many many years. Look at the data sheet here: http://www.xtraseal.com/tds/3559219836TDS%...(Low%20VOC).pdf

The data sheet states 1.2 MPa = 174psi of pressure tensile. Dont know how strong it is but the number look like very strong pressure it can takes so long as the material stick well.

100% silicone glue are used in sealing aquarium, strong and last many years. The kitchen seal you used are coloured ones and paintable, I guess, which likely to be acrylic glue, not silicone that wont last. Do not use acid base silicone for your kitchen. The acid will eat/corrode the concrete surface and make sealing loose. Use the neutral one as shown in my post.

This post has been edited by stevie8: Feb 20 2014, 11:51 PM

How I silicone glued the glass panel standing vertically.

Things required: L brackets or anything square or rectangular 90 degree 8 pieces,double sided tape, 3 feet long ruler, spirit level, silicone glue of course, masking tape, a used credit card and a helper for positioning.

Bracket at the floor


Bracket on the wall


1. Once the acrylic stick is silicone sealed down to the floor and cured over night 4 L bracket were stuck next to the acrylic stick with double sided tape on 4 sides of the acrylic stick. This will provide guide to the glass to sit on the acrylic stick in position.

2. With the 3 feet long ruler using spirit level measure it vertically on the wall and stick another 2 L brackets on the wall about 20mm apart. This will allow the glass panel to be slot in and hold the glass vertically but loosely.

3. Then just lift the glass panel and helper guide you placing the glass panel on the acrylic stick.

4. With the spirit level leveling the glass panel vertically against the wall and stick another 2 L brackets to the wall. This time the 2 L brackets provide a true vertical for the glass panel to slot it correctly vertical. The earlier 2 L brackets can be taken out but no harm leaving it there. Same time make a mark on the floor the glass panel would sits. There should be at least 2mm gap between the wall and glass panel for silicone glue.

5. Take the glass panel away. Stick masking tape along the two sides of the acrylic stick of the floor (so that silicone glue will not stick on the acrylic stick but on the masking tape later) and stick the bottom edge two sides of the glass panel where the it will sit on the acrylic stick.

6. Apply silicone glue to the top of the acrylic stick where the glass panel will sit, then carry the glass panel and again the helper guide the glass panel to the correct position on the acrylic stick. The glass panel will stand vertically and hold by the 2 wall brackets and you can let go your hands. Make adjustment where necessary.

7. Use credit card wipe away the excess silicone glue. Do not use your finger, the glass still could cut you if you press too hard. Then pull away the 4 masking tape one by one.

8. You cannot silicone glue the glass panel to the wall yet because there are 2 brackets holding the glass panel you cannot removed as it will fall. Apply a litter silicone glue to hold the glass panel to the wall allow to cure over night then only you can remove the two wall bracket and apply silicone glue to it. So, do same 4 masking tape on the very top of the glass panel and wall about 4 to 5 inches inches from the top of the glass panel. The 2 masking tapes width on the wall should be less than 10mm about 8mm will do (so that it would be covered by new silicone glue tomorrow). Apply silicone glue to 3 inches between the top of the glass panel and wall not more than the masking tape, wipe away excess silicone glue and pull the masking tapes.

Let it dries over night before applying silicone glue bwteen the wall and glass panel. That is when the silicone is cured overnight you can remove the wall L brackets and apply silicone glue and do not forget to use masking tape.

From the above you can see it takes 3 days to do this one glass panel mainly waiting for silicone to cure. That could be one of the reason why contractors do not want to do frameless shower screen and never have experience in it as no sifu to learn from.

When U channels are used it takes just one day. Measure, drill holes, screw U channels, place setting blocks in U channel, apply silicone to U channel, slot in glass panel, wipe excess silicone glue and done, all go in a day.

No. I have same problem basically lime from water. You can try using rubbing compound buy from hardware shop. It is a hard work. Do not use acid. Acid cannot help instead corrode your grout and then you will have water leak problem at the drain holes which are concrete.