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 Unemployed Uni Grads, whose fault

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TSrexis
post Jul 5 2006, 11:40 AM, updated 20y ago

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This issue going on since 5(or more) years ago. And none stop, and no sign of reducing, and getting more and more serious day by day. Why? Is it something wrong somewhere? Whats wrong?

This is a huge question mark.

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(img credit to alanyuppie biggrin.gif)

This post has been edited by rexis: Jul 5 2006, 02:09 PM
mervyn
post Jul 5 2006, 11:44 AM

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Big part of the problem is within the graduates themselve. I believe the industry refusal to take in fresh graduates are second to that. I don't think they'll refuse to those quality graduates with some working experience. However, how many ppl in university today will take a part time job during the holidays? some, but not the majority.
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post Jul 5 2006, 11:45 AM

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The graduates, for not having correct attitude to learn and work. [ 1 ] [100.00%]
goliath
post Jul 5 2006, 11:53 AM

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These are few reasons that I could think of:

Company:
1) Does not hire fresh graduates
2) Salary too low (I mean below average expected salaries)
3) Hires the one with best academic results.

Fresh Graduate:
1) Taking their time so-called holiday not realising that it takes a while to get hired.
2) Choosy (in terms of salary, their dream job, location)
3) Lazy
4) Bad academic results
nada-
post Jul 5 2006, 12:05 PM

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discussed earlier.. at link and also at de-funk.blogspot.com


Why does it seem shocking to anybody that our (120k) fresh graduates are unemployed? People are offering far to many excuses from needing a long 'break', to the market saturated, not enough jobs, etc. At the end of the day i got only to ask
do our fresh graduates or students in colleges/uni show self intiative and are really working hard to prepare for the market?

Thats like asking can our MPs stop implementing and saying stupid things. whistling.gif

This post has been edited by nada-: Jul 5 2006, 12:06 PM
alanyuppie
post Jul 5 2006, 12:07 PM

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QUOTE(rexis @ Jul 5 2006, 12:40 PM)

This is a huge question mark.

?
*
I beg to differ. that's is not a huge question mark.

this, my fren... is...
user posted image

K. back to the real issue. Well the past few years technology been making us "limp" . And some sort of distracted. Look at around us, some of they r preoccupied (even in uni time) is playing online games, joining MLM. How many fractions really did utilised the power of connectivity to say... learn a few more skills to be put into their credentials and enhance their resume.



I had some trainees who are not motivated to learn, juz hoping for perks here n there (calculative claims) even though the were only in for few months. I even let them use the projector to watch Naruto* during lunchtime to boost their morale n work/learn but in the end.. some of their effort are juz so so . So I guess it's not that they was not given chance lo.

Further back I have some xtrainees who complained of migrain every other day or juz find ways to not to work.

Ah.. those good ol days..

*i know some of you (my xtrainees.. lurking around this forum) already started to know who i am. hehe. emmm.. Hie?

igor_is300
post Jul 5 2006, 12:31 PM

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QUOTE(alanyuppie @ Jul 5 2006, 12:07 PM)
I beg to differ. that's is not a huge question mark.

this, my fren... is...
user posted image

K. back to the real issue. Well the past few years technology been making us "limp" . And some sort of distracted. Look at around us, some of they r preoccupied (even in uni time) is playing online games, joining MLM. How many fractions really did utilised the power of connectivity to say... learn a few more skills to be put into their credentials and enhance their resume.
I had some trainees who are not motivated to learn, juz hoping for perks here n there (calculative claims) even though the were only in for few months. I even let them use the projector to watch Naruto*  during lunchtime to boost their morale n work/learn but in the end..  some of their effort are juz so so . So I guess it's not that they was not given chance lo.

Further back I have some xtrainees who complained of migrain every other day or juz find ways to not to work.

Ah.. those good ol days..

*i know some of you (my xtrainees.. lurking around this forum) already started to know who i am. hehe. emmm.. Hie?
*
Yeah right. I have a few trainees in my company as well. They are indeed in their own fantasies LOL. One of them asked me about my work. I told him some of my work descriptions and instructions. He surprised that I can managed all the burden. He even said there is no use working hard when the salary is not well compensated. I agree with that statement but to survive in this dog-eat-dog world you need to prove yourself worth every cent. wink.gif

This post has been edited by igor_is300: Jul 5 2006, 12:33 PM
alextan99
post Jul 5 2006, 12:37 PM

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Well most of the fresh grad are not proactive when they are looking for the job especially those that their parents have some money. Then it comes out to the fresh grad that have good results thinks that they are too good for this and that and dun want to accept low salary and lastly the industry is not too good so the company would rather hire someone that have experience than a trainee due to the cost and time needed to train them
TSrexis
post Jul 5 2006, 02:08 PM

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Ahhh, most people say its the graduates' fault, nobody standing from the graduate's point of view?(POW)

During school since young, we were trained to score in exam, they put a big A in front of us and tell us that is our goal, and goal as many as possible. And then, we are trained to memorise things, for those who failed to do so, punishment is applied, like copy 100 times the whole article, stand outside class, rotan etc.

If we manage to score plenty of A, our piece of work will be stuck on billboard, our mum and dad will grant us extra pocket money and the teacher will praised us in front of the class.

And then life goes on, we manage to enter university.

The first class of the semester the lecturer will tell us how is the marks distributed among tutorial assignments and exams, and tell us when is the mid term exam is so everybody prepare for it. And then we are provided with notes, and due to our experience, the teachers are expected to prepare their notes for the students.

The lecturer has to tell/beg the students to highlight the important chapters in a text book hoping that they will actually go thru it. And lecturers who didn't do so and expect their students to find it out themselves, will have to write a report regarding why so many students under him failed.

The university has to keep the standard, they cannot mark their students with marks too low, if lots of the students scored less then 50% they eventually has to graph it to a suitable percentage. If a university cannot produce any first class students at all, its their shame.

The amount of subjects we studied in a university is massive, almost each subject will required a few years of careful study to fully understand it, but with multiple subjects in a short semester, we just have less then a glance on it, memorised the symbols and text mechenically as we were trained to do so since birth.

And most importantly, students, with our current education system, are all trained to pass exams, not seek for knowledge.

So, blame the kids, or blame those who produced the kids?

This post has been edited by rexis: Jul 5 2006, 02:12 PM
jinyee80
post Jul 5 2006, 02:18 PM

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I think that everyone should play their role. This apply the same to the government.

Education - erms, perhaps when you go for the interview, the interviewer will warn you that the theory that you have learned in the class may not be the same that might apply in the real world. I think that fundamental knowledge in class is important and financial literacy is also important.

Attitude of learning - come on, talking about this. Students in foreign countries study before they attend lecture, and that's why they know what is happening and what the lecturer is teaching in front. They have doubts, they asked, then they understand more. Whilst in Malaysia, you do nothing, attend the lecture( maybe late due to overslept), then you look at the lecturer, then she looks at you, then when the time's up, you went home. Then when its exam, you listen to the tips and memorize. This applies to majority of students, so no offence to those really dedicated students!

Parents - they pay for your education, what do you expect more? Parent should not 'force' their children to study what ever they want. Listen to their children's opinion, and discuss about it.



Jinyee
dopodplaya
post Jul 5 2006, 02:23 PM

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The student, It is always the person fault. Btw, I am technically jobless, but I have many part time jobs.
havenzhiv
post Jul 5 2006, 02:41 PM

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QUOTE
QFT, infact the lack of tenderness to communicate in english in general is the reason behind all this. How many local universities students are able to fluently pass his/her message in english?So little of them. They can write, yes but speak?Well that is a whole different agenda. I remembered once, i had an american friend who came to visit me, most of my friends tend to back off or shy away rather than speak to him.

Another sad truth is that (in my experience, in my university) 80% of IT students in my batch, not only they lack communication skills, they lack the technical skills but they dont have the drive to learn things by themselves, they bought PC as a very expensive typewritter and gaming console, they scored 3.0+ CGPA and A for database subject, yet they no clue how to install mysql, let alone creat a complex database.

Yet, they have the guts to ask for a higher salary with the fact that they are almost skilless.

Most students lack the competitive edge that we need since we are sooooo comfortable in the situation we are in especially bumis (no pun intended since i am a bumi myself). We are so good at following till we dont have the drive to step up and take the lead.

I blame the lack of awareness to the vast knowledge available, I blame the lack of facilities available, i blame that most of graduates thinks they are too good yet not they know that they are clueless and i blame the lack of self motivation for all the unemployment issues.

I remembered not too long ago, a primary school kid (who is infact my little brother in-law) who is in fact a lazy bum sits in the bottom 3 class said he hates the smart kids because they tend to belagak abit and calls them "poyo". I told him, "you are a lazy bum and you got F for your exams and becasue of that they have the right to be proud of their achievements and show it. What have you got to show?You should be the "poyo", stupid." I said right in front of my father in-law.

The moral is, most of us are always envious about other's achievements yet we do nothing about ouselves.

Just my 12 cents
quoting myself in a previous thread.

nada-
post Jul 5 2006, 03:49 PM

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Graduates have no self intiative (researching on the local market and companies and being able to learn new things and multi-task as well as taking critique in a positive and construction manner than a negative one)

They have no self realisation (like havenzhiv has said so many students wield their degrees and diplomas like a golden ticket and think automatically they are to earn a certain $$$ amount. how many students you know are working partime jobs? Or know their own capabilty? How many are even honest with themselves about this?)
and are unable to self educate.

Problem is also the mindset that has been drilled that 'academics' and 'grades' are everything. All educational institutions in the world have a certain academic criteria that they uphold and follow. But it has been said that the education/ educational system in Asia focuses deeply in academics and technicality more.
This can be shown clearly in the Malaysian paper (The Star), students are always getting remarkable results and constantly show the achievements academically in the paper, yet Malaysia has a problem of over 120,000 unemployed graduates shown in statistics and one third of them (30,000 graduates) are design students.
In many government schools in Asia especially the South-East Asia region, they focus mostly in academics and technicality where many of these educational institutions do not encourage to ask questions or to promote discussions and critical thinking within classes.

Yes there is problems with our educational institutions and there always will be. The students need to make a stand and also learn how to improve the quality of education. Too many graduates and students in colleges are expected to be spoon-fed by information cuz one paid for the tuition fees?

I'm so tired of students moaning and groaning about no jobs or the its so hard to get jobs when I can clearly see so many reasons why they cant get one. Stop blaming others and take some damn responsiblity.


nada-
post Jul 5 2006, 03:51 PM

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*sorry double post

This post has been edited by nada-: Jul 5 2006, 03:52 PM
Mavik
post Jul 5 2006, 05:31 PM

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I believe it all boils down to the attitude of the graduate themselves.

For one thing, you can't blame on the education system, why? Because out of the 120k graduates who are jobless, there are many more with jobs. Most people would point to the fact that we only target towards A's in exams, but in fact it is targeting towards excellence.

With the right attitude and willingness, anyone can find a job. I guess it all depends on whether how choosy they choose to be. Do they want jobs that suit them or are they willing to step out of their own comfort zones to try out new horizons?

Why attitude? Because of their attitude in Uni was that of lack-lustre, copy off friends and lacking in initiative, they have no one else to blame but themselves. It doesn't matter which prestigious uni they can come from, as long as they have bad attitudes, they complain at the very sight of not being able to get a job.

A few examples, a uni graduate, comes out with no clue on how to write a CV. So they search online and find a couple of examples or even yet get a program to write out the whole CV for them. Then they send out their resumes straight to various companies. They don't get a reply or no answer, then they come and b**** about it in the forums. What I see is lack of research as well, did they reviewed back on their resumes and cover letters? Did they ask for opinions from other people on the content? Did they get someone to proof read their documents? Did they call back the companies and ask for feedback?

The reason why I am banging on attitude, try reading the posts here in this forum. I hardly encounter any type of posts asking questions based on their hard work, rather instead I see so many types of questions being asked without proper research done. That is the kind of attitude here, waiting for people to drop food on their plate without even trying to sing for their supper. vmad.gif
chypp
post Jul 6 2006, 12:15 AM

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*intrigued to post a reply*

i strongly agree with graduate's ATTITUDE as a factor of the unemployment. with the right attitude everyone can get a job. underqualified? start from lower position to gain experience), take some time to learn. attitude also influence communication skills; which is one of the most looked for criteria from employer nowadays. Being more open minded, initiative, socialize all helps improving communication/ teamworking skills. Its not in the syllabus, but only can be gained with the correct attitude.

Education? neh, its the environmental factor, if there are any. Most ppl i know who have hard time so start their career were 'too comfortable' in their life. Heh when their parents stop giving them pocket money; or having crisis; only then the reality comes into the picture. so it goes back to the ATTITUDE factor.

Industry? never involved in HR/management before, but im sure one of the reason why the industry hesitated from hiring fresh grads because the majorities of graduates themselves are incompetent enough. Why bother training new recruits who 'shouldve' gotten all the skills during their graduate studies?

just my 2 cents. im one of those who falls into the 'unemployed' category dry.gif
swlong
post Jul 6 2006, 08:42 AM

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The graduates, for not having correct attitude to learn and work
THis is the main reason...
casper04
post Jul 6 2006, 10:35 PM

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jobstreet
Job Position XXX

Total applicants: 450

but only 1 person will successfully gain entry.
olman
post Jul 6 2006, 10:57 PM

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QUOTE(Mavik @ Jul 5 2006, 05:31 PM)
I believe it all boils down to the attitude of the graduate themselves.

For one thing, you can't blame on the education system, why? Because out of the 120k graduates who are jobless, there are many more with jobs. Most people would point to the fact that we only target towards A's in exams, but in fact it is targeting towards excellence.

With the right attitude and willingness, anyone can find a job. I guess it all depends on whether how choosy they choose to be. Do they want jobs that suit them or are they willing to step out of their own comfort zones to try out new horizons?

Why attitude? Because of their attitude in Uni was that of lack-lustre, copy off friends and lacking in initiative, they have no one else to blame but themselves. It doesn't matter which prestigious uni they can come from, as long as they have bad attitudes, they complain at the very sight of not being able to get a job.

A few examples, a uni graduate, comes out with no clue on how to write a CV. So they search online and find a couple of examples or even yet get a program to write out the whole CV for them. Then they send out their resumes straight to various companies. They don't get a reply or no answer, then they come and b**** about it in the forums. What I see is lack of research as well, did they reviewed back on their resumes and cover letters? Did they ask for opinions from other people on the content? Did they get someone to proof read their documents? Did they call back the companies and ask for feedback?

The reason why I am banging on attitude, try reading the posts here in this forum. I hardly encounter any type of posts asking questions based on their hard work, rather instead I see so many types of questions being asked without proper research done. That is the kind of attitude here, waiting for people to drop food on their plate without even trying to sing for their supper.  vmad.gif
*
Come on amigo, don't be so hard hitting, everyone was once a newbie, laugh.gif

My take on who's/what to blame:
1- Increasing number of people flooding and aiming for the same piece of pie/field which is limited.

2- Most positions requires one to have some years of experience add that too with some advertising with insane number of skill sets one should have (A-Z). Saw such job postings in Jobstreet.

3- Our Education system in short.

4- Yeah, persona plays a significant role too sweat.gif

5-last but not least, choosy laugh.gif

This post has been edited by AMDs-PoOp: Jul 6 2006, 11:02 PM
Lestat
post Jul 6 2006, 11:40 PM

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my advice for freshies who are choosy about salary: u are the bottom of the food chain. start from there n climb up.

from my survey on my friends, most dip freshies start at 1.2k. degree freshies start at 1.8k-2k. if u start with more than that, consider urdelf lucky.
sinoffire
post Jul 7 2006, 12:03 AM

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freshies. just bcos they got a paper & they think they can do/know everything?? WRONG!! choosy when finding a job as a freshie? a big NO-NO! well, if u got hired by a MNC company that pays really handsomely whilst u aint got experience in that job, congrats.

'wat u learn in ur beloved uni/college/school might not be exactly applicable in ur future job.' this is wat i was told by a mlm guy more than 8 years ago. and i stil remember it til today. why? becos it's sooooooo true. no? try luk around ppl near u, ask them wat's their major during schooling days & wat's their job now.

if u lack in something, go equip urself with hardwork, research etc etc. dun expect spoon-feeding. come back to reality, welcome back to the REAL WORLD!

time will tell. experiences count.
Ken
post Jul 7 2006, 09:08 AM

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i thought the main reason is dunno mandarin rolleyes.gif
havenzhiv
post Jul 7 2006, 10:21 AM

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QUOTE
Its never about the course or the subjects in my opinion, it is always the content of the subjects and the essence of it. Subjects taught are not outdated but the materials, contents and methodology is somewhat questionable.

Local universities (public universities especially) is still using the same teaching method over the past 20-30 years which does not encourage self learning and to be outspoken.This however, is the result of the teaching methods during primary and secondary school. So blame them as well.

If you look at developed countries, children are being taught to be independant, outspoken and they are encouraged to learn things by themselves. This contributes to their supremacy over us in many ways.

Contents and material used in local universities, especially in ICT subjects covers only the tip of the iceberg of what is out there. There are only theories (which in some if not mose cases are outdated), no practical or hands on in matters that would make them well if not little prepare for what lies ahead of them.

Certain courses requires a lot of budget if they need make subjects practicalable. Thus, cost comes in play as well. It does affect the quality but not much since there are always a workaround out of it.

Eventhough the method they are using is wrong, it is up to the students to forecast his future, not taking his own initiative to make himself marketable is his own fault. Ok, so he has been taught for 12 years to be spoon fed but being an adult, he could have think what is best for him.

So, the question is why is this happening, it is the outcome / product / result of multiple elements (methodology, cost, student themselves, contents, etc etc etc) catalyzed into one. Dont blame one, blame them all.
here, i quote myself again

This post has been edited by havenzhiv: Jul 7 2006, 10:21 AM
Mavik
post Jul 7 2006, 12:01 PM

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QUOTE(havenzhiv @ Jul 7 2006, 10:21 AM)
here, i quote myself again
*
Very true when you said about in western countries that children are brought up to be independent.

When I was studying in the UK, almost all of my british friends were kicked out of the house by the time they were 18. That means, they take student loans for themselves, work during term time to earn enough money to survive their rental fees and living expenses. Non of them drive cars except for those who come from rich families, everyone walked around.

Then you see them do a lot of innovative things to try to earn extra cash. They do a lot of trading on Ebay, buying glow-in-the-dark wristbands by bulk and selling them for a hefty profit at concerts, buying houses and renting them out to cover the repayments and many more things.


cleverlynn
post Jul 7 2006, 01:27 PM

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how can ppl be jobless when the schools are lacking of teachers? go teach in primary or secondary school or be a tutor in uni while applying for industry job then! it will at least earn u some income while u r waiting for yr 'dream' job and help the teaching staffs problems..
TSrexis
post Jul 7 2006, 03:34 PM

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There will always some people looking for job and some job looking for people.

Everybody want to make the best money out of minimum effort.

Everyboss want to hire the best people with the least money.

Now the market just have to find a balance in between.
Ido
post Jul 7 2006, 07:06 PM

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there always a jobs out there....don't expect it to come to you..
normaldude
post Jul 8 2006, 10:59 PM

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I think fresh graduates need to do 2 kinds of learning when in University:

1. Formal Study
Study and do well in exams that the university is teaching to get a nice paper to show to your future employers

2. Real World Study
Create a jobstreet account fast fast. See what kind of jobs are available, what you like to do and what skills are employers asking for. Then, drop by MPH / Kinokuniya or any bookstore of you choice to get a book and learn what the heck are those things mentioned in the job ad.

After you have done your uni assignments, spend some time to do your own stuff that you learned from the book. Example for IT grads: Create some simple program to exercise what you have learned, or redo your uni assignment in a different language method.

Then think and ponder. Take other subjects as deemed fit if you have the opportunity. Example: Take an advance database course to complement your self study on database. From the job ads in jobstreet, you can roughly see which technologies / software are "in" and which are not. You'll be surprised that some of your lecturers might be very shallow and might not even know what people are using in the real world.

I'm pretty sure if you can try to keep up to date with jobstreet during your uni years, by the time you graduate, you should have some of the important skills needed by the industry.
nightzstar
post Jul 9 2006, 12:27 AM

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I got some worries here. I don't know which path i gonna take. I have found my interest but still have some vague.Well i do like computing and cars but i have taken form six as well. I thought automotive mechatronics but that spm graduate can take already and i already wasted one and half year for form six.Oh yeah i have some urgent question to ask you all, what do you think about Bachelor Of Information Technology (Hons) Communication and Networking? How about the job prospect in future? Well most of the employee will seek for experienced ones.I have done research on jobstreet.com
sinoffire
post Jul 9 2006, 01:56 AM

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QUOTE(nightzstar @ Jul 9 2006, 12:27 AM)
I got some worries here. I don't know which path i gonna take. I have found my interest but still have some vague.Well i do like computing and cars but i have taken form six as well. I thought automotive mechatronics but that spm graduate can take already and i already wasted one and half year for form six.Oh yeah i have some urgent question to ask you all, what do you think about Bachelor Of Information Technology (Hons) Communication and Networking? How about the job prospect in future? Well most of the employee will seek for experienced ones.I have done research on jobstreet.com
*
now, i know shite about the computing & stuff. so i aint the proper person to ask on the good/bad of that particular course tt u mentioned. but one thing for sure is, equip urself in wateva way u can. bcos, once u start working, the time for u to go back to study is gonna reduce edi. yes, u may do it partime, but think of it, it's gonna be tiring & u gotta pandai2 divide ur time between work & study. so, do all ur study before u come out to the society & work.

as for experience, well...just send in those resumes, only thing is that show ur eager/hunger to learn to the interviewer eventho u got no experience in that particular field. someone for sure gonna hire u, it's just a matter of which company got the gut to hire a fresh grad nia.

erm, one thing for sure is, network ppl sure earn lotsa $$$ tho. my trainer told me that few days back. tongue.gif

just my op.
scorgio
post Jul 9 2006, 02:19 AM

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Had a TT with a gentleman who holds a managing post of an advertising company.
He was talking about how he hired people smarter than him. So that they work for him & he himself don't have to work.
When we came to the topic of young grads unemployed. This was his statement:
"I don't care even if you're an MBA. Unless you have 10 years under your belt, you are nothing."

This post has been edited by scorgio: Jul 9 2006, 02:19 AM
Chester
post Jul 9 2006, 02:52 AM

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I think they dont have the knowledge, especially in local uni, including me.

From what I see, we only study when there's exam. Even so, we study the tips that is given. Thats why we still can pass in exa and grad on time.

But whats the point of grad-ing when nobody wants to hire us. Thats why I felt, student itself is the problem. They simply dont have the knowledge and only study tips to pass exam. But of coz this din't involve all.
olman
post Jul 9 2006, 02:54 AM

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QUOTE(scorgio @ Jul 9 2006, 02:19 AM)
Had a TT with a gentleman who holds a managing post of an advertising company.
He was talking about how he hired people smarter than him. So that they work for him & he himself don't have to work.
When we came to the topic of young grads unemployed. This was his statement:
"I don't care even if you're an MBA. Unless you have 10 years under your belt, you are nothing."
*
How would anyone gain experience if opportunity to get entry is not given, in part it is people like that gentleman that's contributing to the unemployment issue no matter how small part he played. It is always easier to talk with pride when you are already there.

 

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