Aiyah,

Can argue until the cows come home but the fact is .. snake oil stuff is the epitome of a hifi shops bread and butter - they earn the most for this..
Definitely this will be uhm.. recommended..
Facts ; science .. in audio .. fat chance..
Go n ask the guy who just plonked de 800 - you expect him to say l am a fool and it dont sound any better???
Psychologically it already registered that it will sound better..

Thanks anyway biamp better or ht bypass. tq

People who only use movies to test speakers are the people who knows nothing about audio. That's why you mostly see music as being the preferred usage test for speakers.

As long as you have proper placement, bass management, some basic form of acoustic treatment, logic and common sense (by not buying into snake oil bs), most speakers will sound good already.
Then all that's left is whether you like that speaker's particular sound signature or not. If you don't, then it doesn't mean it's not good, it simply means you have a different preference.

The ELAC Debut series, to me... they're nice speakers for whatever I threw at them. Music, movies, games, it does everything well considering the price they are being sold at.
If I want to pick faults while ignoring the price, well I think they're not dynamic enough. I feel that they don't have enough air, they don't "disappear" either and the center channel does have lobing issues as well, which is annoying when sitting off axis. But again, given the price, there's not many other speakers around this price range that can match the ELAC Debuts.

Haha..

Tats why the rule of thumb is tat a decent hifi speaker will make a good HT speaker but not necessarily vice versa..

YMMV..

First of all, these are different league speakers you are comparing

KEF Reference is a match for SF Olympica....but not against even Amathi, let alone Aida or Lillium

most of the higher speakers are 4 ohm load, hence they need different power requirement and different way of setting up
using a Pioneer or Denon or Onkyo to power these speakers are not going to do any justice to the speaker...hence the lower range of KEF or Paradigm will sound better

perhaps you should visit KS & Sons in Bangkok and see how their Sonus Faber + McIntosh HT system sound like....

Like I said.. YMMV..

Besides sound is subjective.. to each his own.. I am glad tat l find my own chokia system is to my liking.. in the end .. its your own ears tat need pleasing.. irrespective of what anyone else says..

Talking about proper setting. In pure audio is even more settings than HT. Having said that, this does not mean those brands are not good for HT. It only means is not done right.

It depends.

If you're doing a setup like this - http://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-dedicated...ater-build.html
You can bet your entire savings that it is much more complex than analog gears.

Obviously you don't know what is consider as complex.

here's my 2 cents....

have I owned and played with above 100k (not accumulated value) hifi....yes I have....

HT....hah sooner will be reaching there too..not yet cross 100k...but getting there....

my years of hifi playing.....eerrrr maybe 20++ years....considering i grew up listening vintage luxmans, accuphase, JBLs and so on
my parents and god parents are music lovers....we used to gather on weekends for makan minum...my dad and my godfather would spin vinyls all day long

HT...maybe 2 years into serious HT...other wise just basic 5.1 couldn't careless sound

in terms of complexity.....getting a pair of speakers to reproduce the intended music emotion and liveliness is one tough thing....
getting it sound analog/organic.....musical and tonal balance....it is very tough given the fact that there is limited software controls (next to none)
from speaker placement to equipment isolation....power requirement....
a good sounding system is not only lively....you feel the soul of the music.....the tempo and rhythm....the texture of the instruments
the higher end the system...the less forgiving it gets due to its precision...the worse part is....even the basic balance, bass, treble semua hilang...just power on, input selector and volume.
so what to adjust and where to adjust?? adjust how much?? speaker balance one sided...how??? overdose bass....tak cukup high....what to do??

HT....well i can't say i spent the same amount of time like I have in hifi.....
through my 2 year journey in HT....
the visual has to be right first for myself....if the visual is not there...the feel of enjoying a movie is no longer there

sound....i like the sound effects to be as realistic (realistic does not equate loud) as possible....now getting it sound realistic...is it just software and EQ...not quite enough....proper power matching with speakers....how different DSPs will sound....
i wont say it is less complicated...neither would I call it more complicated
getting the headroom, ambience is not that tough...provided u have a proper room
getting the micro details, each sound effect dynamics...thats tough
generally HT requires less juice to play...albeit if you use a power hungry speaker...u still need a good power amp to drive

can I use a SF Cremona or Amathi for HT...sure...by all means....whats the difference against say SVS Ultra or Klipsch or HT THX certified speakers....
but make no mistake...the creators of Cremona and Amathi are for music enthusiast who might want to use it to watch a movie but not particular about how the movie sound.
let's take the high frequency range first....the SF cremona or Amathi uses a custom make Scanspeaks Ring Radiator for SF that provides a very airy, refined and smooth highs...the ting a ling sound will be sweet...
now comes the mids.....the character of the mids is pretty much refined vocals, instruments sound airy and musical...
the lows are less pounding and you hear nice kick drums, very smooth cello strings....watching Chris Botti Live in Boston is a great example of how live music should sound....

If you use the same speaker for Jurassic Park....T Rex will have nice smooth vocals....can you expect some ommph in the scream and the stomping of the T Rex foot?? yes u can...but it wont be as nice as the HT speakers. the dynamic slams wont be as hard as it would...

but at the end of day....stick to what you have and in hifi/HT....one mans meat is another man's poison....so chill guys....hifi/HT is like tailor made clothes...it fits only you

what I am building today is different from what i use to play.....my master plan is to have a nice 2 in 1 system combo...which has proven to be a real challenge

why I chose KEF Q series...no fancy reason...it was on sale...it met my budget...it sounded ok to me for HT....have i got every sound out from the Q series....probably not fully...is it a software/eq tuning or any setting?? still testing....but me being me...i still place the importance of how good my front L&R sound first on music....

So as you journey through either one....you face newer challenge because the listening skill has increased.....the demand for better sound is there....that's the drive for people to upgrade....

going to showroom to audit only gives you an idea of the sound character....if you are truly a seasoned guy in listening....you roughly know what u want and how you want it....
google is only 10% to the answer....go out and be open to listen to other people's system.....

i learn alot listening in showrooms and private individual rooms....talking to individuals as to how they listen to music....

All system sound shit without tuning regardless of the money spent.....

Going -5 volume or -10 doesnt fully proof your system sounds good...it could be a person able to adapt to loud music..
If a guy frequents disco....what is 80db to them??

Having a system that doesnt make u fatigue after hours of listeninf is 101 regardless of hifi or HT

Cable voodoo out of the way, let's talk logic;

1) In theory, at least for home theater runs; no it does not matter. Electric travels at the speed of light, a difference of 1.4m isn't going to make a snort of a difference provided both runs are the exact same cable.

2) YPAO adjusts delay in relevance to where the mic is position at (MLP), not the cable.

3) If you were to use an oscillator and measure the conductance of 2 cables with different lengths and of different quality, then yes it is measurable that the difference in length can and will show a difference in conductance. Whether that is audible or not, well.. it shouldn't be, but we have people who can hear the difference between cheap tin solder vs rosin solder used on the cable end.
Straight uses YPAO processing and adjustments, Pure Direct doesn't. They're not relative to each other.

4) Again, if you were to take oscillator and measure; you will see a difference. But the difference is so minute that it doesn't actually matter.

5) Logically speaking, the farther your cables are from the amp/receiver, the thicker of a gauge you want for the cable. But we will reach a point (around 10 gauge) where any thicker doesn't provide any more benefit unless you have a room as big as Michael Bay's own home cinema.
People place all their cable budget on the main speakers (LCR) because apparently, the cables will make a huge difference because the mains are the important speakers.
Sidenote;
As to why YPAO set one side of your speaker louder than the other, there can be various factors.
Example;

- Difference in noise level within surrounding environment, are you absolutely sure that prior to the YPAO measurement after you switched cables that your environment's noise level was the SAME?
- Did you verify the SPL with an SPL meter at least, not just by going off the reading on the receiver?
- Was the mic in the exact same position before and after you change the cables?

I don't know how to answer your question because any answer from me may cause further replies of disagreement to my poor knowledge of speaker, interconnect or whatever cables. So I do feel that it makes more sense for me to just post a few articles and videos that I have read and watched before. I hope I do not cause further confusion to you as well as be able to help you make a much better choice.

http://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cab...ker-cable-gauge
http://machinedesign.com/blog/5-myths-about-speaker-wire
http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/tech_ti...re_gauge_right/
http://www.cablecurls.com/cable-curls/cabl...-speaker-cable/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG-3KyURXqk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7DdcZCbABo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR4crLxpd4U

I think that speaker cables selection can cause "heated discussions" between different camps, similar to the question of HDMI cables and other cables.

My own uneducated opinion is... get a cable which you think is supposed to be reasonable AWG thickness for the length used (refer to the links I posted above) AND do make sure that the speaker cables have proper shielding because electro-magnetic interference (EMI) can cause some problems... and of course, I know that you will not put your speaker cables near to any electrical wires or anything that can cause EMI issues. Don't worry too much about not equal length of speaker cables... just use equal lengths for left and right speakers since its DIY so the costs of saving a few Ringgit for just a short length will not matter. Branded (factory terminated) expensive ones ALWAYS come with equal lengths so that is never an issue. I sensed bullets being fired at me now or am I just hallucinating?

Below is an interesting YouTube Video about cable curls ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6duVvwdd5F0

Phew! Tough, tough.

The cable topic neverending arguements.....hehehehehe

Well just my 2cents here....

Good cables are not neccessarily expensive (my definition of expensive are those above few K cables)
but cheap...doesnt mean chap ayam lar.....for me at least some brands like Belden, Canare and similar type of cables manufactured by reputable companies

In hifi or ht world....marketing has been very effective in leading people to buy their products...not that its wrong....but a little further research would do no harm

For instance....is there a difference between a basic hdmi 1.4 vs a branded hdmi 1.4.....in terms of price...yes

In terms of quality....maybe not...most technical measures showed relatively close results between the two (provided the unbranded is really compliant to the standards).
Hdmi u might face problem in long run where a good quality remains better
Having your projector or tv calibrated to ISF standards yields better result than buying a 2000 hdmi

For interconnects....single ended or balanced....
Generally good copper cables will do the job.....and an important part of it is shielding and how d cables cores are braided to be resistant against EMI

Speaker cables and power cord are the same as well

Investing in 5000 interconnect on a 10000 system will not make it fly or sound heaven and earth
Its a matter of having the right balance
You might be better off with a 13k system n 2k cabling

There r a alot more things you can do to improve sound apart from investing in cables

For 1.....making your power clean
2....room acoustics

Generally what changes the sound character (note that i dont equate to sound quality) are the other types of metal they include in the cable core....such as silver, gold, carbon and etc.

Personally i am using canare interconnects, Gotham for my xlr....these are not any expensive cables but they get the job done effectively.
I used to use hisago from japan which is hard to find now.

In a lot of blind test....most people can't tell the difference

In high end hifi...where the equipment is tuned and calibrated to reference standards and in a good acoustic room with clean power...one can tell the difference in terms of sound character.....at that point...its more of a preference

I am learning to make my own cables as an enthusiast and currently still using high quality upocc copper core 7N using Litz braiding technique...
I use multi gauges and different type of cores for testing
I am still a fan of pure copper...
Have not started any shielding discovery at this point but will be my next stage of discovery

At the end of the day...apart from lab tests...your ears are the most important to tell d difference...

If you can't hear the difference....don't buy it...

I am not against any branded or unbranded....i have used diy cables, branded cables....high end cables for testing.....personally i hv mixtures in my system now...and gradually its becoming diy for fun....may not be any better than what u hv in the market

well blind tests are generally a self challenge to learn to listen more; ie micro details, micro dynamics, depth, dark sound stage and many more

have you wondered how far your 80k equipment can go?

so what am i trying to improve on my current setup....i'm trying to improve the overall micro details from micro imaging to micro dynamics.....its not just about having nice deep bass or loud gun shot....

i'm trying to get the ambiance feel right.....the micro imaging of the conversations layered with background creating more depth and realism
i'm trying to get the sound effect to be as real as it gets.....example...the texture of the wooden door opening with creaking sound...

while Audessy is very good at making sure the room corrections are done and the measurements are accurate....what the DSP doesn't do enough is getting that micro detail out....
and based on my experience....it is the bottle neck of my cables which i experience in my hifi set....that being said....I dont think throwing 20k cables can get the job done...hahahahahahahahahahaha

so....hence am trying out various combination of the neotech to get the power signal delivered.....once I'm done with that...perhaps slowly i will get the Neotech to work on the interconnects and finally for my speaker cables