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 [Home Appliances] Air-con, (Household)

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SUSOptiplex330
post Feb 11 2014, 05:04 PM

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QUOTE(freestyler87 @ Feb 11 2014, 03:08 PM)
thanks for your feed back, i dont need 1.5hp which it would over power to my room... haha
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If you intend to get an Inverter air cond, getting a more powerful air cond instead of an under-powered ones is always a good idea.

SUSOptiplex330
post Feb 11 2014, 05:26 PM

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QUOTE(freestyler87 @ Feb 11 2014, 05:12 PM)
hmm? i thought over power air cond would be take more power consumption which make it more expensive in electricity bills?
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What you said is for non-inverter air cond.

Imagine you are driving a car. A car driven in city has plenty of stop start so uses more petrol. By preventing such stop-start operation (Inverter), you save petrol. A tiny air cond in a big room will never encounter that stop-start nor when you set temperature at 16C.

I have both and I can confirm if used properly, inverter indeed can save you 40%. The trick is to know what size to fit and how to use them.







SUSOptiplex330
post Feb 11 2014, 05:42 PM

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QUOTE(freestyler87 @ Feb 11 2014, 05:33 PM)
so you trying to said, go for a bigger 1.5hp for faster cooling and faster went to inverter mode which maintain the temp only?
but my room for 1HP already quite over power abit lolz... i dont know my calculation right or wrong.

my room 15 feet (wide) x 15 feet (depth) x 15 feet (high)
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Yes, something like that. Try comparing the power consumption of non-inverter and inverter and you should be able to note the differences. I have similar concern as yours but settled for "over" instead of "under" power. My rationale, if over-powered, the ampere will automatically drop anyway with inverter so why worry?

I don't know about calculation but do know there are other factors to consider beside sizes. Is the room facing the afternoon sun? How many people? How often door opening and closing? etc

SUSOptiplex330
post Feb 11 2014, 06:05 PM

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QUOTE(dannyw @ Feb 11 2014, 05:55 PM)
Talk about power consumption, let say I set the same temperature for 1.0HP Inverter and 1.5HP Inverter, which one will consume more power?

I know the concept is 1.0HP should take slightly longer compare to 1.5HP to reach the temperature, after reach both may run at low power.

So one with higher power in short period, another is lower power but slightly longer time, but overall which one consume more power?
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Sorry to say but you are focusing on the wrong thing.

As long as you get the RIGHT size air cond and know how Inverter works and can accept the higher initial cost, get an Inverter. I expect to recoup the higher initial cost in 12 months through lower electricity bills. My only regret is not having the opportunities to get the Inverter sooner.

Now there is another benefit of Inverter which I seldom see mentioned. With Inverter, once the inverter cuts in, the air cond is a LOT quieter than non-inverter. I really meant "a lot". This is because they no longer work "at full load" nor any more "thump" stop-starting.

This post has been edited by Optiplex330: Feb 11 2014, 06:05 PM
SUSOptiplex330
post Feb 11 2014, 06:35 PM

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For air cond, Daikin is bigger than Panasonic. They also own York.

I would take after sales service into consideration. For example, if your reliable friend sell Daikin, I will get that and vice versa.

Another tiny consideration, the remote control that goes rosak often. Panasonic wanted RM100 and York at half price. The multiple China-made remote I got all last a couple of months only.


This post has been edited by Optiplex330: Feb 11 2014, 06:36 PM
SUSOptiplex330
post Feb 11 2014, 10:52 PM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Feb 11 2014, 10:11 PM)
York is under daikin company and sharing same technology from daikin low budget design and cut cost for without eye motion in York Y Series inverter.

These is same like Toyota = Daikin
Perodua = York
But both also have passo or Myvi right.

From here if you can't understand then go for google it out notworthy.gif

Just noted that Daikin compressor using E-Scoll type & York compressor use DC Rotary type.
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may i ask, what's the different? What's the pros and cons?

A quick Google came up with this http://docs.lib.purdue.edu/cgi/viewcontent...84&context=icec

it says with R22 gas like what Daikin is using, Rotary is only better up to 8000 BTU. With R410a gas, rotary is better up to 24,000btu.



This post has been edited by Optiplex330: Feb 11 2014, 11:04 PM
SUSOptiplex330
post Feb 11 2014, 11:18 PM

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QUOTE(platinum_12 @ Feb 11 2014, 11:17 PM)
Sure or not? Where you get this info, or its just speculation?  shocking.gif What i know, acson is under york. Never heard york is under daikin.

N what the problem with low budget? High budget doesn't necessary means its good. Take example proton n toyota. Did expensive proton have greater quality than a cheap toyota? No right?
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Daikin owns OYL. OYL owns York, Ascon and several other brands. Google.



SUSOptiplex330
post Feb 13 2014, 10:43 AM

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QUOTE(freestyler87 @ Feb 13 2014, 09:24 AM)
i dont think panasonic aircond pricey...

i got quoted for Daikin 1HP Inverter RM1500 with installation
for York Inverter RM1450 with installation..
guess what without inverter i can get RM980 for York... >.<

i still try to search better price
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I think the price different is about RM500 for inverter and non-inverter. If you use it properly, you should be able to recoup back in 12 months in terms of reduced electricity bills.

SUSOptiplex330
post Feb 13 2014, 11:51 AM

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QUOTE(supersound @ Feb 13 2014, 11:49 AM)
This statement are too general and very misleading. Recoup back in 12 months based on what? For people that are using it for 3-4 hours daily, it will take 4-5 years to recoup back. But if using it for 24/7, then it will recoup back within 1-2 years.
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Bedroom night time use every night.

SUSOptiplex330
post Feb 13 2014, 11:59 AM

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QUOTE(supersound @ Feb 13 2014, 11:55 AM)
How long? State the duration, don't like the other racist jerk that keep on claiming made in China stuffs is not good but can't provide any solid prove.
I also turn on my air cond every night, but just for 3-4 hours max.
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How come you didn't know an average person sleep for about 7 or 8 hours? Do you need me to tell you what pajamas to wear and what pillow to use?



SUSOptiplex330
post Feb 13 2014, 12:11 PM

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QUOTE(supersound @ Feb 13 2014, 12:04 PM)
All air cond have a function : timer to on and timer to off. How come you don't know on this?
As said, state clearly in the first place would be the best. As inverter won't really save if the duration is short.
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True but not quite correct.

An inverter save ONLY if there are stop-start operation. The more often the occurrence, the more the saving.
It's the same as driving a car in town with plenty of stop-start and even if you drive whole day, still use plenty of petrol.

For example
You could put a huge inverter 1.5HP in a tiny 9 ft x 9 ft room, night time, no hot wall, no leakage, 2 occupants and it would cool the room to 24C in 30 minutes. After 30 minutes, saving starts.

Or you could put a tiny inverter 1.0HP in a 20 x 20 rooms, day time, hot wall, door opening all the time, 10 occupants and it still wouldn't cool the room to 24C in 3 hrs. So no saving even after 3 hours.


SUSOptiplex330
post Feb 13 2014, 04:30 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Feb 13 2014, 03:21 PM)
How much saving of inverter depended a lot of factor, there is no magical number, you use inverter, means you can automatically get 30% saving in electricity bill, 50%, or 10% whatever number.

Inverter just to replace the start-stop-start cycle of non-inverter, by using variable speed of its motor.

If one set the temp too low, like 18C, whereby inverter need to run full load most of the time aka full speed, the saving won't be much, or your room is not insulated good enough, plenty of heat loss factor around, aka inverter motor always need to run at higher speed to cool down the room, then the saving also won't be much.

That's why no manufacturers dare to use an accurate figure how much saving inverter can have compared to non-inverter, but just stated x% saving with typical use with *mark on it, as it depends on how the usage condition.
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Yes, that's how inverter save money.

In fact, if inverter working at FULL LOAD all the time, it will use more electricity than non-inverter that is also working FULL LOAD because there is some power lost due to conversion from AC current to DC current. Inverter works on DC current.

Like you said, Inverter WILL ONLY SAVE money in situation whereby it has the opportunities to run PARTIAL LOAD.





SUSOptiplex330
post Feb 13 2014, 04:39 PM

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QUOTE(supersound @ Feb 13 2014, 03:29 PM)
Maybe we should wait the inverter fanboy clarify on this.
Set at 18C won't do much help, only the piping will freeze.
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Assuming you have a adequately sized air cond in a room for the night. 8 hours running. 25C

FULL LOAD OR F
PARTIAL LOAD OR P

With non-inverter, during the entire night, a non-inverter will work like this: F-P-F-P-F-P-F-P-F-P-F-P-F-P-F-P-F-P-F-P-F
The continuous switching from F to P to F to P etc is similar to driving a car in city with plenty of Stop-Start-Stop-Start, using more fuel. The stopping and re-starting is that "thump" you hear in the night from the non-inverter air cond and which you will never hear from Inverter.


With Inverter, it will work this way: F-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-P.
After less than 1 hour, it is always running in Partial Load for the rest of the night. This is similar to a car that never have to fully stop, just run smoothly and continuously. This car DEFINITELY give far better mpg.








SUSOptiplex330
post Feb 13 2014, 05:45 PM

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QUOTE(supersound @ Feb 13 2014, 05:42 PM)
But what is the interval of cut in cut out of the non inverter unit?
Set 26C more frequent, set 24 less frequent.
Again, if you know how the non air cond behaves, it will be more money saving than inverter type.
Also, non inverter don't have partial or full load story like you say, it only have full or off.
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Like I said, when BOTH running full load, non-Inverter uses less electricity.


QUOTE(Optiplex330 @ Feb 13 2014, 04:30 PM)
Yes, that's how inverter save money.

In fact, if inverter working at FULL LOAD all the time, it will use more electricity than non-inverter that is also working FULL LOAD because there is some power lost due to conversion from AC current to DC current. Inverter works on DC current.


Like you said, Inverter WILL ONLY SAVE money in situation whereby it has the opportunities to run PARTIAL LOAD.
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This post has been edited by Optiplex330: Feb 13 2014, 05:53 PM
SUSOptiplex330
post Feb 13 2014, 06:45 PM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Feb 13 2014, 06:24 PM)
If both runing full load.

I would said inverter still more efficient than non-inverter.
Due to non inverter today still quite a numbers an runing R22 gas for working slower to cold down whole in place.

From inverter used R410a gas may high pressure to boots up more faster from 50% than R22 gas.

At the end still inverter unit for more power saving.
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Inverter works on DC current.
So have to convert our Tenaga AC current to DC current before use. The lost due to conversion is between 5 to 10%


SUSOptiplex330
post Feb 14 2014, 09:44 AM

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QUOTE(syafu @ Feb 14 2014, 09:08 AM)
Hi all,

I'm looking for an air cond for my bedroom.

Since I'm staying at flat, few thing need to be done:
1) no electric point for air cond. Do inverter need different type of electric point?
2) not using sliding windows, installer need to cut the windows steel bar.
3) no balcony to put the compressor (outside wall 9th floor above ground).

As the compressor going to be near my bedroom windows, I'm looking for quiet compressor (Mitsubishi is my option right now).

I have been offer RM1599 for MSY-GJ10VA complete with standard installation (10 feet cobbler hose, 10 feet wiring to electric point). Is the price reasonable?

Can anybody suggest good installer and estimated cost for above activity?

Thanks.
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I notice Inverter compressor sounded different from non-Inverter. Anyone noticed that?

SUSOptiplex330
post Feb 14 2014, 09:52 AM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Feb 14 2014, 09:50 AM)
What is ur model?

To compare mine and my neighbor used Daikin non inverter really noisy and installed newer than mine.

If you want hear I can record down brows.gif
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I am not talking about loudness. I am talking about the tone being different.

The tone of Inverter compresser sounded more like jet engine.
SUSOptiplex330
post Feb 14 2014, 09:57 AM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Feb 14 2014, 09:54 AM)
Lol jet meant when starter boot up right?
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I notice "inverter" or partial load starts coming in after 15 minutes switching on. Once it did that, I notice the TONE of the compressor changes to sound more like jet engine.

SUSOptiplex330
post Apr 24 2014, 09:01 PM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Apr 17 2014, 07:15 PM)
Daikin inverter not really cold and set for lower 25c usage like non inverter.

If try to set in 25c with low fan how does it work?

Mitsubishi electric only require for 25c with low fan speed.
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I used to think inverter air cond not as cold as conventional air cond but I now think that is wrong thinking.

When a conventional air cond is working, it's working at full power. Full Power means maximum coldness.

So to know how cold is an inverter, it MUST also be working at full power. Inverter only work in full power all the time if you set it to 16C. At any other setting, it's not working at full power so less cold.


If one knows HOW INVERTER works, it can cut your electricity bill by 40% easily. But if you don't know how it works, you may get zero saving.


This post has been edited by Optiplex330: Apr 24 2014, 09:03 PM

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