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 Bitcoin Thread v1, and other cryptocurrencies

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kmarc
post Feb 20 2017, 12:27 AM

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QUOTE(sirxl @ Feb 19 2017, 11:36 PM)
First rule of security, be paranoid.

Second rule, assume you don't know everything.

Third rule, assume your Mac/Linux laptop is as insecure as Windows.

Bitcoin was never meant to be an investment,
it was called the peer to peer decentralised payment system by Satoshi Nakamoto.
*
Thx for the advices. Will keep that in mind. thumbup.gif
kmarc
post Feb 20 2017, 11:18 AM

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QUOTE(wengherng @ Feb 20 2017, 01:31 AM)
As with any investment, it could go up to USD 5k, or even USD 100k, or it could go down to zero.
History will tell whether you made the right decision or not, 5 years down the road.

Instead of just being an investment, think of bitcoins as a hedge.
In that sense, it works somewhat similar to gold, but in digital form......it's intrinsic value is purely determined by what the global population perceives its value to be, and it could be an effective hedge when global fiat currencies are too volatile, for example during an economic crisis.
This is why we see such a sudden demand for bitcoins in countries like India, Venezuela, China, etc. where their governments started enforcing currency controls.
Or in Zimbabwe, Nigeria and other African countries with high and volatile inflations.
*
Thx for the info. For me, I have some other instruments for hedging. That is why I'm treating bitcoin as an "investment tool".

From what I can understand, bitcoin value is based on multiple factors but I just can't help wondering what happens if the USD dollar crashes (predicted by some). Will bitcoin's value go down with the dollar?

This post has been edited by kmarc: Feb 20 2017, 11:56 AM
kmarc
post Feb 20 2017, 05:47 PM

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QUOTE(wengherng @ Feb 20 2017, 11:56 AM)
Well, that's the beauty about cryptocurrencies......they are decentralised, and the value depends on whatever people think they are worth.
If that hypothetical situation really happens (USD crash), then my prediction is that the bitcoin value will soar exponentially.

Think about it this way.
Currently, the USD is only worth what it is worth at the moment, because all the other countries in the world use it for international trade, and everyone collectively say it is worth this much, at this time.
If the US dollar crashes, that just means that people think it is not worth this much anymore, and nobody wants to keep it anymore, meaning people are selling it off for cash in their own currency.
All those cash need to go somewhere (people don't trust banks anymore as the bank interest rates are generally barely enough to beat inflation) so they would then place them into other investment vehicles, and bitcoin is one of the fastest growing ones, gaining popularity on a global scale.
At the same time, American citizens would realise that their own savings in USD is getting devalued at a crazy pace, so in order to stop their losses, they need to convert their savings into something that is not as volatile, and again, bitcoin offers exactly that.
Traditionally, people in these situations put their money into gold, as it is seen as a safe hedge during economic turmoil, but these days, bitcoin offers the same, with more security and versatility.
The problem is, there are only limited numbers of bitcoins available, and only 21 million bitcoins will ever be available, EVER.
So, the more money pours into the bitcoin market capitalisation (i.e. the higher the demand), the higher the price will go.

Above is just an extremely simplified scenario (much more factors are involved), but I hope it sort of answers your question to some extent.
*
Yes, that's the answer I'm looking for. thumbup.gif

If bitcoin goes higher, they probably have to split the value like stock split. Imagine buying a pizza for 0.0000000001 BTC. biggrin.gif

QUOTE(Nocomment25 @ Feb 20 2017, 01:50 PM)
Hi all,

I'm quite amazed by the level of knowledge and level of  maturity we have here.. really take me by surprise, I really thought bitcoin in malaysia is still 'ais age' though still many are yet to know.

In my personal opinion.. I think we are getting abit paranoia about cold storage. I think if we plan to buy BTC in big numbers like our forummers taikors here then yes.. please go ahead and get a hardware wallet..
Is a must!! Get yourself protected..

For those who are starting out and still testing water, leave the cold storage aside first.. I mean if u have 0.001BTC, what cold storage u r talking about!!

If u start to accumulate around 1-2BTC then yes.. time to think like a pro and guard it as much as u can..

Hope it helps!
*
Yes, I'm amazed myself. Should have asked here much earlier when bitcoin was hovering around USD 300-400. I actually wanted to buy then but found it extremely difficult to buy using MYR. Oh well, better late than never. nod.gif


kmarc
post Feb 20 2017, 08:14 PM

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QUOTE(wengherng @ Feb 20 2017, 06:18 PM)
At the moment, the smallest division of bitcoin sub-unit is the satoshi, which is equivalent to 0.00000001 BTC (one hundred millionth of a bitcoin).
But you're right, if the value continues to go up, perhaps one day it might be necessary to divide it even smaller.
The blockchain technology is designed so that further subdivisions are possible in future.

Don't think about what "could have been" by looking in the past.
We always have perfect vision in hindsight......back then, while the value was still low, there were not so many companies and businesses that agreed to adopt bitcoin as an acceptable form of payment, so if things didn't work out, you could very well have seen the USD 300 value drop to USD 0.30 per bitcoin.
On the other hand, if the value goes to USD 10k per bitcoin in future, you will be thinking to yourself, "Why didn't I buy more bitcoins when it was so cheap at USD 1000 per bitcoin...???"
*
Yeah, not looking back. From my reading (of some sources), there are reasons to believe that bitcoin may go up further. Hence the reason why I chose bitcoin over stocks. To me, the overall stock market is sky-high just waiting for a crash (Have been waiting for market to crash for quite some time actually sweat.gif ). Bitcoin may crash too but the potential to go up is also there. Only time will tell...... smile.gif

This post has been edited by kmarc: Feb 20 2017, 08:23 PM
kmarc
post Feb 21 2017, 12:40 PM

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Damn you bitcoin. You're going up too fast. Please come down a bit. sad.gif
kmarc
post Feb 21 2017, 03:34 PM

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QUOTE(jack2 @ Feb 21 2017, 01:03 PM)
Wow.. it is so high now... happyyyyyyyy
*
Lucky you didn't sell to me tongue.gif

Oh no, increase some more!!!! sweat.gif
kmarc
post Feb 21 2017, 04:37 PM

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QUOTE(wengherng @ Feb 21 2017, 03:38 PM)
Perhaps you can consider to exercise dollar cost averaging.
And if it helps, maybe you can try to think like this: if the future price of a bitcoin will go up to RM10k per bitcoin (for example), will it still matter so much whether you bought it at USD 1000 or USD 1080 now?

Hope that helps to ease the pain a little......  biggrin.gif
*
Already accumulating but still not reaching my target amount as I wanted to wait for my hardware wallet. Looks like I can't wait, just have to use software wallet like Airbitz for now.

Thx for the easing of pain. biggrin.gif I'm actually thinking along that line too, that it doesn't matter it is going up as my target price is at least x5.... ya ya, I'm dreaming... smile.gif
kmarc
post Feb 21 2017, 05:42 PM

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QUOTE(wengherng @ Feb 21 2017, 05:23 PM)
If you don't mind sharing, what's your target amount, that you mentioned above?
Thinking of joining the Million Club?
*
Hehe, not wise to reveal things on internet. Let's just say my first transaction's profit based on current price already paid for my hardware wallet. Not important because as mentioned, I'm cutting big tree with small knife, like what we used to say in stock trading. Of course, the big tree can still fall on us!!!! biggrin.gif

Oh ya, definitely cannot join millionaire club! sad.gif what about you tongue.gif

This post has been edited by kmarc: Feb 21 2017, 05:53 PM
kmarc
post Feb 21 2017, 10:34 PM

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QUOTE(sirxl @ Feb 21 2017, 09:29 PM)
and we say Moon...
crazy jump today.
*
Thx to China. If not, the price will probably be higher as below laugh.gif :

Attached Image

Disclaimer : No, I did not do any statistical analysis. I just drew the line using mspaint..... whistling.gif

This post has been edited by kmarc: Feb 21 2017, 10:35 PM
kmarc
post Feb 21 2017, 11:59 PM

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QUOTE(wengherng @ Feb 21 2017, 11:30 PM)
Well, let's just say I set a target for myself to join the million club first.
Then slowly build up from there.
But even now I am still a long way away from achieving that first step.
sweat.gif
*
Cool. Hope to meet you in the BTC millionaire club one day! thumbup.gif
kmarc
post Feb 22 2017, 06:45 AM

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QUOTE(wengherng @ Feb 22 2017, 12:31 AM)
At current prices, it would take just over USD 23k to join the prestigious club...... shocking.gif
Damn, I'm not saving fast enough!
*
Let's just pray it doesn't crash. Security of bitcoin is still my main concern though because as mentioned, I have decided to go all in and am prepared to lose the investment. Yeah, like you, I'm also not "investing" fast enough!!! Don't even need to think about DCA as the price keeps on going up.

Bitcoin at RM 4959. I hate you!!!!!

This post has been edited by kmarc: Feb 22 2017, 06:50 AM
kmarc
post Feb 22 2017, 08:23 AM

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RM 5021..... who is still buying? sad.gif
kmarc
post Feb 22 2017, 07:41 PM

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QUOTE(jack2 @ Feb 22 2017, 09:08 AM)
Happy happy...

Last week I bought 1BTC at 980usd...
*
thumbup.gif

Say, why are you all using USD? You're buying with MYR right?

QUOTE(wengherng @ Feb 22 2017, 10:48 AM)
We're now in a different era compared to 2013. With so many international companies and financial institutions adopting blockchain technology and investing so much into it, I honestly do not think bitcoin will crash.
Correction, maybe......but not crash.
Several countries like Japan and UAE have already started to accept bitcoin as a legitimate currency.
This will mean more regulation controls over its usage, but will massively increase its adoption to the general population, which I see as a good thing.
Exciting times ahead.
Good for you.
I added some too, at around USD 1040.
*
Most reassuring to the ears!!!! Exciting times indeed! thumbup.gif

See see, just when I want to add some BTC, it shoots up from RM 4900 to RM4988 in a couple of hours! bangwall.gif
kmarc
post Feb 22 2017, 11:08 PM

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QUOTE(jack2 @ Feb 22 2017, 10:16 PM)
No. I use USD to buy.
*
Interesting. Which exchange are you using? Earning USD? smile.gif
kmarc
post Feb 22 2017, 11:15 PM

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QUOTE(wengherng @ Feb 22 2017, 11:08 PM)
You can use whatever currency you like to benchmark your profits and losses.
I personally use USD just for easy benchmarking, because I buy not only using MYR but also other currencies.
*
I see. Anyway, bitcoin on upward trend again. Hope it drops a bit........
kmarc
post Feb 23 2017, 06:50 AM

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QUOTE(wengherng @ Feb 23 2017, 01:03 AM)
The next two and a half weeks is going to be very interesting indeed.
11th March is the final deadline for the American Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) to decide on their approval or disapproval of the first bitcoin ETF, and I predict that until that day, we'll still be seeing quite a bit of volatility yet.
If they approve, then it means that they are legally and officially opening the gate to hundreds of millions of US dollars to be flowing into the bitcoin market capitalisation, in which case the price will soar.
If they say nothing (i.e. do not approve or disapprove), then after the deadline, it is considered as an automatic approval, in which case the price will soar.
If they explicitly disapprove (which, unfortunately, is currently the general expectation), then there will probably be a dip, in which case, we can take advantage to buy at the dip and average down our investment cost.
Previously, the SEC Chairman was Mary Jo White, who is sort of a conservative and will probably push to disapprove it.
However, as she had stepped down as Chairman at the end of the Obama administration, and we don't yet know when the replacement is going to be sworn in, there is now a real possibility that the deadline will pass without an official ruling, meaning the application might just be automatically approved.
Exciting.
cool2.gif
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What a second. I thought it was March 31st? If it is truly March 11th, then I'm really a late comer and running out of time!!! sad.gif

Is it true what some say, the even if SEC reject the ETF, future ETF application will be made and as such, the potential for bitcoin to rise is still there?

QUOTE(sirxl @ Feb 23 2017, 06:14 AM)
not sure why you want it to drop?
*
Drop a bit so that can accumulate more wink.gif
kmarc
post Feb 23 2017, 02:01 PM

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QUOTE(wengherng @ Feb 23 2017, 11:37 AM)
To my knowledge, there are at least 3 different applications to the SEC for a bitcoin ETF, which the SEC has been stalling for a few years now.
The Winklevoss twins' one is probably the most high profile at the moment, and the final deadline for this application is 11th March.
I'm not too sure about the other two.
SEC approvals are done on a per-application basis, so even if the current 3 ETF applications are rejected, future applications can still be made, but they will have to go through the same vetting and approval process, which could take years.
Personally, I think that at some point, with so much global attention and financial investments being directed to developing the blockchain technology and bitcoin in general, I believe that an approval for a bitcoin ETF will be inevitable, the only question is "when".

My suggestion is: don't be greedy and buy bitcoins with money that you cannot afford to lose, or with money that you will need in the near future. As I said, if the applications are rejected, there could be a price dip, and it might take months before it recovers back to its original level.
On the other hand, if you're in it for the long run, and you believe in the technology and how it could revolutionalise the financial world, then I think now is a good time to invest, as technically speaking, cryptocurrency is still in its infancy stages.
*
I see. I was actually targeting 31st March. sweat.gif

Meaning bitcoin is here to stay and not going away anytime soon.

Yeah, cannot be greedy. If bitcoin keeps on increasing before the EFT ruling dateline, I might offload a certain percentage to recoup the original amount. Definitely in for the long-term barring any unforseen events.

Still wondering how each country will handle bitcoin transaction in terms of money laundering and ill-gotten gains...... hmm.gif As previously noted, bitcoin prices dropped recently due to China's clampdown on bitcoin exchanges. However, looks like it is only temporary......

Some recent news on the ETFs:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/2017...f/#61cc9a193d84
https://www.wsj.com/articles/irrational-exu...etfs-1486350601

This post has been edited by kmarc: Feb 23 2017, 04:05 PM
kmarc
post Feb 23 2017, 07:13 PM

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QUOTE(wengherng @ Feb 23 2017, 05:58 PM)
The bitcoin prices affected by China's uncertain policies against bitcoin are purely reflective of the general public's interest in it.
It just means that there are so many people interested in it and putting money in it, that when the government announces certain hints of potential changes in regulations, the public panics and scramble to sell it off.
But as you can see, the China government's influence over the price seems to be waning now, and although there are still sudden price dips when announcements are made, the volatility is nowhere near 2 - 3 years ago. In fact, in just one month, the price of bitcoin has recovered back to the level before the PBoC public announcement in January.
Money laundering is always a problem, but it is no different with any currency vehicle......especially cash.
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As usual, valuable info! thumbup.gif notworthy.gif

From the time I entered bitcoin about a week ago until now, BTC already increased by about 10%! Actually, anything below RM5000/BTC I was prepared to accumulate. Now that it is above that, I'm slightly hesitant. Will see the trend. You still accumulating? smile.gif

Edit : Bitcoin at RM 5140..... sad.gif Wait I go cry first... will come back later.... cry.gif cry.gif cry.gif

This post has been edited by kmarc: Feb 23 2017, 08:42 PM
kmarc
post Feb 24 2017, 08:27 AM

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QUOTE(wengherng @ Feb 23 2017, 11:36 PM)
Even I am surprised by the sudden rally today.
I tend to think this is just euphoria, a kind of adrenaline rush by the general population as the price inches towards the All Time High (ATH).
My prediction is that we will break the ATH of USD 1165 soon, and when it does, there will be a lot of opportunists who will say "This is it! We've broken through the barrier! We've achieved what we wanted to do!" and then promptly proceed to sell off to lock in their profits, during which we will see a mild price correction.
But, this is just my personal prediction.
The price could just as well suddenly go haywire and hit the moon.
biggrin.gif
*
#%@F%JGA@%#WS%FF@%&*@$

No, that's not my cursing. It's my bitcoin address, can send some bitcoins please? bangwall.gif

RM5281!!!!! Resistance (was there ANY resistance???) of USD 1165 easily punched thru. Most of the time in stocks, when resistance is broken, historically the value would hit a new high. Until another event causes it to dip/drop/crash. The only question is when. And the other question is whether to chase or sit back. cry.gif It's getting a little scary for me and I'm not even halfway there yet! cry.gif

My previous opinion was that the price now should have been much higher. Just because of China's clamp-down that it is at current levels. Here, my new excellent statistically analyzed one-arrow one-minute MSPAINT chart....... whistling.gif It's off the charts but if I take my ruler to measure, I think it will be at the RM6500-RM7000 level.... laugh.gif

Attached Image

Even though it is sky high at the moment, I think (MY opinion only) it will still go up, at least until near the time the first ETF decision is made. That gives another 1 - 2 weeks for it to rise. From then on, the trend would depend on the outcome.

Note : My 0.0000000002 BTC opinion only......

Hmmmmm..... was just thinking, if BTC keeps on going up and maintain at high value, there would be a threshold where mining would be viable again. Anybody knows what that threshold might be?

QUOTE(sirxl @ Feb 24 2017, 07:01 AM)
Are you all at bct? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=85430.600
*
Wow! Didn't realize bitcoin is so extensively discussed. thumbup.gif

I just checked out some of the links of bitcoin mining farms and those on youtube. The first thing I thought was CRAZY!!! However, in this day and age, technology seems to be the one that make quick millionaires and multimillionaires. 8-5 traditional jobs just doesn't cut it anymore. sad.gif

I really new to this and I just can't comprehend why you need to mine bitcoins to make it into "currency" which is used for transactions. Just.... can't.... brain... this.... Why not just create a new digital currency for the whole world to use? hmm.gif Yeah, some equate it to like gold mining but instead of shovel, you use computers. My first thought, man-made craziness.....

This post has been edited by kmarc: Feb 24 2017, 08:58 AM
kmarc
post Feb 24 2017, 12:44 PM

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QUOTE(wengherng @ Feb 24 2017, 11:10 AM)
Your excellent statistically analyzed one-arrow one-minute MSPAINT chart is amazing. biggrin.gif
Unfortunately for me, despite me thinking that I'm so well-prepared and analytical, I also always seem to be buying at the highs.
I've never lost money in the long run, but my investments could definitely have been much better than what they are now.  sad.gif
*
I think that's called a prudent and careful investor? Me too, I'm more of the low-risk type of guy. Understandably, the only problem with this type of approach is the returns are also comparatively low.

My recent foray into AUD bonds also "lost" some value. However, because AUD strengthen so much, I'm actually making a profit! biggrin.gif

QUOTE(sirxl @ Feb 24 2017, 12:03 PM)
SEC go or no go on the Bitcoin ETF comes out 11 March. Buy on rumours, sell on news. Beware guys. Don't risk all your MYR.
*
Thx for the warning. Wise advice. I'm in the clouds dreaming with bitcoins. Bitcoin just touch RM5400....... laugh and cry at the same time..... rclxm9.gif cry.gif sad.gif thumbup.gif

This post has been edited by kmarc: Feb 24 2017, 12:48 PM
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