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Investment 4 Critical Signs of a Bubble Market, Property Investment

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hondaracer
post Nov 16 2013, 07:48 AM

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QUOTE(joeblows @ Nov 15 2013, 03:28 PM)
Good, my friend.  biggrin.gif

Btw, since you are another TTDI kaki, you may be interested:
Since I informed my agent contacts that I'm looking for good-value props around TTDI, phone has been ringing non-stop with news of 2 auction units in TTDI.

1 unit 2000sf TTDI Plaza 910k
1 unit 1700sf Sinaran TTDI 950k

Both non-bumi, agents desperate to do a deal.

Seems like subsales is plenty slow. Those prices are close to 2010 prices IIRC.....  hmm.gif

Already viewed the sinaran one. Just next to LRT but again next to LRT track too! LOL....so got pros and cons.
*
Are you buying??

hondaracer
post Nov 16 2013, 07:51 AM

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QUOTE(UFO-ET @ Nov 15 2013, 04:26 PM)
For all states in America perhaps..
*
It would be great if there are specific numbers for the locations in KV 😎😎😎
hondaracer
post Nov 16 2013, 07:54 AM

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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Nov 15 2013, 03:38 PM)
Aiyo! Not these 2 condo's la. Very poor sales / capital appreciation. Hold many years also not sure if can make any profit. These 2 condo's good for own stay only. TTDI Plaza is the worst. Bad feng shui. None of the retail outlets there are doing well. So many change of owners. Dunno what's wrong with that place.

Anyway, those prices are the starting auction prices rite? Furnished or bare?
*
Are these condo half full or half empty??? Errrrrr..... Investment condo 😭😭😭😭
hondaracer
post Nov 17 2013, 11:57 AM

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Any signs that are easily detected by lay-man? 😎

Empty units? Minimum lighted units in condo?
hondaracer
post Nov 18 2013, 06:28 AM

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Deleted.



This post has been edited by hondaracer: Nov 18 2013, 06:32 AM
hondaracer
post Dec 4 2013, 03:38 PM

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QUOTE(kochin @ Dec 3 2013, 11:38 AM)
sugar price .... up
assessment ... up
fuel subsidy ... down
fuel price ... up
power tariff ... up
toll rates ... up

salary ...?
prop price ... ?
rental rates ... ?
*
Time to increase the rent 😎😎😎, I am increasing my rental for my new tenant for next year

Property developer increasing price😳😳?
hondaracer
post Dec 22 2013, 10:34 AM

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Any cheap deal?
hondaracer
post Dec 28 2013, 08:23 AM

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Article by Tong Kooi Ong in EDGE 27 Dec 2013

_____________________________________





UNIVERSALLY, we accept that all humans have the basic need for food, clothing and shelter. Modern theorists have updated this to include sanitation, education and healthcare.

Indian economist and Nobel laureate Amartya Sen has gone one step further in articulating that it is the people’s capabilities to generate these basic needs, rather than their mere consumption, that determines their own individual significance and socio-economic well-being.

Having a roof over one’s family is not just a basic necessity but also a human right. Every citizen has the right to safety, freedom and human decency.

For the same reason we strive to ensure that everyone has access to basic food – either through price controls, subsidies or some form of distribution to those in need – so too should housing be made equally accessible.

Over the past ten years, since 2003, average home prices in Malaysia, as measured by the Malaysian House Price Index, have gone up by a total of 80%. Meanwhile, average income, as measured by nominal GDP per capita, has risen by 92% over the same period.

However, the bulk of the property gains have occurred in the past four years, when average home prices surged 48% from end of 2009 to 3Q2013. That suggests a compounded annual increase of 10%, outpacing income growth of around 7% per year.

The surge in home prices in the Klang Valley have been more marked with landed homes generally doubling in the same four-year period.

Rising home prices, combined with high rates of home ownership and low income levels have converged to create a high level of household debt in Malaysia. Our household debt to GDP ratio of over 83% is the second highest in Asia.

To be fair, property prices in Malaysia are not universally expensive or out of reach. According to government statistics, the average home price in Malaysia is RM269,324 as at 3Q2013. It will take 8.4 years for an average Malaysian to buy a home, based on nominal GDP per capita of RM32,144 per year.

By comparison, it takes about 5 to 6 years of average incomes to buy homes in Singapore (based on a HDB apartment), the United Kingdom and the US.

Thus, Malaysians are worse off, although the two-year difference is not too wide.

However, the urban-rural divide here is very large.

The national average home price of RM269,324 would be able to buy only about 200-300 sq ft in the city centre, or half a shoebox apartment.

Indeed, statistics show that the average price of homes in Kuala Lumpur are 130% above the national average, at RM620,758 while those in Selangor are 50% higher, at RM405,836.

In other words, using similar level of affordability, urbanites have to earn a lot more – about 2.3 times more -- than the average Malaysian. This means about RM6,200 per person per month, on average. The question is, how many people living in the Klang Valley earn this figure?

Apart from demand, supply and costs, another major variable affects property pricing: Speculation.

Take the example of the DIBS (Developer Interest Bearing Scheme) financing structures. Here, a buyer pays a minimum down payment, say 10% of the value, to secure the purchase of a home. In the case of a high-rise apartment, the buyer pays nothing more until completion three to four years later. The bank provides the mortgage and pays the developer base on percentage of completion. The developer pays the bank the interest servicing on the mortgages.

Thus, for 10% of the home value, the buyer gets the upside of any appreciation of this property value over a four years period. Even if it goes up by 20%, it is a 200% return on investment. In effect, it becomes a high gearing warrant, turning properties into speculative investment instrument.

A reasonable counter argument would be to leave free market forces to determine property prices. But this only happens in the absence of large externalities. Creating asset bubbles have large economic and social costs. Depriving genuine home buyers of their capabilities to own their own homes and the long lead time to bring supply to market are good reasons to justify limited macro market interventions.

Recognising the need for social inclusion, we saw the Federal Government and the State Governments of Johor and Penang introducing a number of measures to cool down property prices.

Some of the measures announced since Budget 2014 include revising upwards the Real Property Gains Tax (RPGT) rate for disposal of properties within first five years for foreign buyers, raising the minimum foreign purchase restriction from RM500,000 to RM1 million, imposing a 2% levy on foreign buyers and removing the DIBS scheme.

In Penang, more radical measures were announced recently to make housing more accessible to the people. This includes the imposition of levy on property transactions to curb speculative buying and the moratorium on sale of affordable and public housing for five and ten years respectively.

The point is that making home affordable is not an option. The real question is how. Home prices must reflect the real economic fundamentals. It will rise and fall base on demand and supply. And like all economic goods, the market must be efficient and competitive to ensure a fair price.

I believe the measures taken so far to cool down property prices are reasonable. These are mainly punitive in nature. What are also needed are measures to support genuine home ownership and investments.

The Singapore Government’s investment into HDB homes is a good tested model. Malaysia has similar schemes but lacks quantity, quality and locality.

Tax incentives like deduction for first time home mortgage will assist first time home ownership. This was done on a limited scale for homes purchased from March 2009 to Dec 2010, with a RM10,000 per year tax relief for three years. The scheme should be made into a permanent one.

Developers will also be encouraged to reduce profitability if the risk of their business can be further mitigated. These include timely approvals and transparency on land use and densification as well as better infrastructure planning.

Developers should also be allowed to withdraw a project launch and return deposits on bookings if the launch fails to achieve the pre-disclosed sales target. This eliminates further financial risks to developers, buyers and the banks.

On balance, the rise in overall home prices in Malaysia is consistent with income growth. It is only in urban areas where housing affordability becomes a major issue. I suspect this is in part contributed by speculation.

Access to affordable housing is a basic human need and a fundamental responsibility of every government. As such, the degree of speculation on homes must be contained in every society. While punitive measures are necessary, positive measures to encourage home ownership and investments must also be formulated as a comprehensive solution.


Tong Kooi Ong is executive chairman of The Edge Media Group. Feedback is welcomed at www.tongkooiong.com.

hondaracer
post Dec 28 2013, 08:28 AM

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QUOTE(hondaracer @ Dec 28 2013, 08:23 AM)
Article by Tong Kooi Ong in EDGE 27 Dec 2013

_____________________________________
UNIVERSALLY, we accept that all humans have the basic need for food, clothing and shelter. Modern theorists have updated this to include sanitation, education and healthcare.

Indian economist and Nobel laureate Amartya Sen has gone one step further in articulating that it is the people’s capabilities to generate these basic needs, rather than their mere consumption, that determines their own individual significance and socio-economic well-being.

Having a roof over one’s family is not just a basic necessity but also a human right. Every citizen has the right to safety, freedom and human decency.

For the same reason we strive to ensure that everyone has access to basic food – either through price controls, subsidies or some form of distribution to those in need – so too should housing be made equally accessible.

Over the past ten years, since 2003, average home prices in Malaysia, as measured by the Malaysian House Price Index, have gone up by a total of 80%. Meanwhile, average income, as measured by nominal GDP per capita, has risen by 92% over the same period.

However, the bulk of the property gains have occurred in the past four years, when average home prices surged 48% from end of 2009 to 3Q2013. That suggests a compounded annual increase of 10%, outpacing income growth of around 7% per year.

The surge in home prices in the Klang Valley have been more marked with landed homes generally doubling in the same four-year period.

Rising home prices, combined with high rates of home ownership and low income levels have converged to create a high level of household debt in Malaysia. Our household debt to GDP ratio of over 83% is the second highest in Asia. 

To be fair, property prices in Malaysia are not universally expensive or out of reach. According to government statistics, the average home price in Malaysia is RM269,324 as at 3Q2013. It will take 8.4 years for an average Malaysian to buy a home, based on nominal GDP per capita of RM32,144 per year.

By comparison, it takes about 5 to 6 years of average incomes to buy homes in Singapore (based on a HDB apartment), the United Kingdom and the US.

Thus, Malaysians are worse off, although the two-year difference is not too wide.

However, the urban-rural divide here is very large.

The national average home price of RM269,324 would be able to buy only about 200-300 sq ft in the city centre, or half a shoebox apartment.

Indeed, statistics show that the average price of homes in Kuala Lumpur are 130% above the national average, at RM620,758 while those in Selangor are 50% higher, at RM405,836.

In other words, using similar level of affordability, urbanites have to earn a lot more – about 2.3 times more -- than the average Malaysian. This means about RM6,200 per person per month, on average. The question is, how many people living in the Klang Valley earn this figure?

Apart from demand, supply and costs, another major variable affects property pricing: Speculation.

Take the example of the DIBS (Developer Interest Bearing Scheme) financing structures. Here, a buyer pays a minimum down payment, say 10% of the value, to secure the purchase of a home. In the case of a high-rise apartment, the buyer pays nothing more until completion three to four years later. The bank provides the mortgage and pays the developer base on percentage of completion. The developer pays the bank the interest servicing on the mortgages.

Thus, for 10% of the home value, the buyer gets the upside of any appreciation of this property value over a four years period. Even if it goes up by 20%, it is a 200% return on investment. In effect, it becomes a high gearing warrant, turning properties into speculative investment instrument.

A reasonable counter argument would be to leave free market forces to determine property prices. But this only happens in the absence of large externalities. Creating asset bubbles have large economic and social costs. Depriving genuine home buyers of their capabilities to own their own homes and the long lead time to bring supply to market are good reasons to justify limited macro market interventions.

Recognising the need for social inclusion, we saw the Federal Government and the State Governments of Johor and Penang introducing  a number of measures to cool down property prices.

Some of the measures announced since Budget 2014 include revising upwards the Real Property Gains Tax (RPGT) rate for disposal of properties within first five years for foreign buyers, raising the minimum foreign purchase restriction from RM500,000 to RM1 million, imposing a 2% levy on foreign buyers and removing the DIBS scheme.

In Penang, more radical measures were announced recently to make housing more accessible to the people.  This includes the imposition of levy on property transactions to curb speculative buying and the moratorium on sale of affordable and public housing for five and ten years respectively.   

The point is that making home affordable is not an option. The real question is how. Home prices must reflect the real economic fundamentals. It will rise and fall base on demand and supply. And like all economic goods, the market must be efficient and competitive to ensure a fair price.

I believe the measures taken so far to cool down property prices are reasonable. These are mainly punitive in nature. What are also needed are measures to support genuine home ownership and investments.

The Singapore Government’s investment into HDB homes is a good tested model. Malaysia has similar schemes but lacks quantity, quality and locality.

Tax incentives like deduction for first time home mortgage will assist first time home ownership. This was done on a limited scale for homes purchased from March 2009 to Dec 2010, with a RM10,000 per year tax relief for three years. The scheme should be made into a permanent one.

Developers will also be encouraged to reduce profitability if the risk of their business can be further mitigated. These include timely approvals and transparency on land use and densification as well as better infrastructure planning.

Developers should also be allowed to withdraw a project launch and return deposits on bookings if the launch fails to achieve the pre-disclosed sales target. This eliminates further financial risks to developers, buyers and the banks.

On balance, the rise in overall home prices in Malaysia is consistent with income growth. It is only in urban areas where housing affordability becomes a major issue. I suspect this is in part contributed by speculation.

Access to affordable housing is a basic human need and a fundamental responsibility of every government. As such, the degree of speculation on homes must be contained in every society. While punitive measures are necessary, positive measures to encourage home ownership and investments must also be formulated as a comprehensive solution.
Tong Kooi Ong is executive chairman of The Edge Media Group. Feedback is welcomed at www.tongkooiong.com.
*
Interesting fact quoted is:

The national average home price of RM269,324 would be able to buy only about 200-300 sq ft in the city centre, or half a shoebox apartment.

Indeed, statistics show that the average price of homes in Kuala Lumpur are 130% above the national average, at RM620,758 while those in Selangor are 50% higher, at RM405,836.


hondaracer
post Dec 29 2013, 12:58 AM

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What are the other critical signs hinting at the direction of the property markets??

Is the auction listing a [cool.gif'potential critical sign'[\B] of a particular area?

I recently browse prop-wall for auctions, certain area like Bandar Utama do also have auctions but only 1 or 2 houses and most of the listings are condos; there are multiple listings of the same properties by different agents as well.

Any other signs?

hondaracer
post Dec 29 2013, 10:35 AM

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QUOTE(HELLO HELLO @ Dec 29 2013, 01:33 AM)
Open a Sdn Bhd company made fake report...set n pay high income tax with company profit up 1mil. Use it as a prove to loan more money from bank. Sapu all the kl/pj new launch landed prop more than 100 units. When VP sell half of it with double and triple the price. Already made huge profit. Now Remain half sell high n slow to wait for big fish or desperately need a landed prop. This Penang guy did it 2 -3 years ago. Now rich like hell driving beamer n have a hot trophy gf. n become a small player developer buy land join venture built factory.

And another case is a guy pakat with dato n a Malay politician which have a seat in parliment...  Open company n using his malay politician partner name to sapu all the landed/condo projects in big quantity with bumi discount. And sell off after VP with 50%+ higher or double the price... Now the 3 guys also rich like no tomorrow.

Now still ada people using this path.... Dunno later still got this lucky or not.

Also see many young people buy 700k+ prop with only 3-5k pm net income. N they try to fake the side income add in become 7-8k pm. Hope within 3 years they manage to increase their "real" salary before the project VP.. If not.. Cant sell off in time or rent out....it soon become as auction unit after 3 years.
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How many people do the above???

As far as I know, during new property launch, I do see several young people going to new launches with friends and share the "investment", besides siblings, parents and relatives.



hondaracer
post Dec 29 2013, 07:57 PM

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QUOTE(HuiChyr @ Dec 29 2013, 02:13 PM)
That a good analysis on Spain. It's like a Proton income earner take a loan to drive a Merz.
But wait .... this scenario does exist in Msia. Msians with average income committed to property worth RM1 mill using wife, parants, uncles etc name to get loans approved. Not forgetting sharing amongst frens to venture into properties. Their "business" was high rental to cover the installment. Is this the scenario now? Do you know rental in Mont Kiara area drop by 50%?

So the above is private debt. How abt public debt (govern) ? Currently, Msia's sovereign bond is 50%++ of GDP. Do we wait until 100% and above to GDP like USA, Japan and UK to take measures and realize we are in trouble? Msia cannot afford to bcoz we are not superpower of the world. 50% of GDP is bad enuf.

USA, Japan and UK are economically & politically stronger so they can bend some rules. Spain was lucky bcoz they are tied to Euro .... if they weren't, Euro countries won't be bothered to support the PIGS. Iceland defaulted because they use their own currency, Krona.

It is NOT the matter of Msia (gov or private) able to borrow to the level of Spain. WE ARE ALREADY THERE!
http://www.consumer.org.my/index.php/perso...-it-sustainable

So when Msia private loans turn to NPL (Non-performing loans), our banks will be affected. That will definitely affect the businesses that survive under loans. Public listed company with bonds too. Credit crunch may occur or interest rate bankrupt the businesses. Ppl will lose their jobs.

So what happen to Msia financial market? Investors will flee our market on stocks, bond and direct investments. Our currency weaker causing inflation on daily goods. Food, petrol etc . Hard times will be upon us question is can each household weather the storm and survive?

Sovereign bond (gov debt) will experience high interest rate. Can our government pay the interest + principal to survive? At 50% debt to GDP, it gonna be a tough ride.

Why do you think BN gov suddenly increase price like hell. Petrol, Toll, sugar etc ..... They are using this tactic to increase revenue and pay off debt. They increase price first before the price increase due to factors mentioned earlier. They KNOW it is coming anyway so best to do it NOW than having economics forces dictates the terms.

Oppositions know this as well. But their policy is different. Get the GLCs and Petronas to pay for the debt instead of the rakyat. BN wants the rakyat to pay while maintaining profit to the GLCs.

It's ALL interlink. Politics & economy, property, industries, businesses, private, government ...... and it ALL comes down to DEBT. How to keep the right balance.
*
😎😎

πŸ’°πŸ’°πŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰πŸŽˆπŸŽˆπŸ”«πŸ”«πŸ’£πŸ’£

Are u an economist?? Work in BNM??

😎😎


hondaracer
post Dec 29 2013, 08:06 PM

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QUOTE(TiramisuCoffee @ Dec 29 2013, 03:24 PM)
There are 2 types of flippers. 1) cash rich, dunno what to do with excess cash type. 2) borrow $ to flip type. First category sure survive no matter what happen. Langit runtuh only treat it as blanket .... biggrin.gif

Bottom line, must have flex.gif $ ability to flip !  wink.gif

It's the 2nd cat. of flipper that's terperangkap!

I guess come 2014, no need kan jeon. Look see look see first. See developer/sellers can hold their breathe longer than buyers or not ( before turning blue.... rclxub.gif ).... tongue.gif  I just went check 3 developers booked/sales units last week. Not moving much since budget announcement. After cny, I go again 2 check see check see....... brows.gif
*
Please share intelligence here...sharing is caring.


hondaracer
post Dec 29 2013, 08:13 PM

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QUOTE(kamilnu @ Dec 29 2013, 06:14 PM)
True, i have 2 walkup apartments in Ukay Perdana, Ampang. When my tenant of 5 years left, i put up sign For Let on the window. That area almost all own stay. No competition with other owner or agent. At least average 3 people call me everyday. Give me headache....hishh. I bought cash. Maintenance cost is next to nothing. When u have no lifts, swimming pool how bad can the maintenance be right? Got onli security. Now renting > 1K.....i bought RM96K maybe almost 10 years ago. All money in the pocket every month.....and forever.
*
How much are your apartment now??

Any recommended apartments???
hondaracer
post Jan 2 2014, 12:04 AM

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QUOTE(yugimudo @ Jan 1 2014, 05:04 PM)
Hello all just to share a "reality" of Gen Y today so that you can guesstimate our purchasing power and desire to buy.

I am a fresh graduate of local Uni (degree) with 1year++ working exp. Its already 2014 but I am still not able to secure a house. My friends are at the age of 24~27 years old. So far, their trend of lifestyle complied with Gen Y standards. I am lucky/unlucky to be born at KL, live here and landed a job near to my parent home. The unlucky part is that all the house surrounding me already at a bracket that require a 3k++ salary to own.

Back to our trend/thought of owning property, believe me when I said it is not even in our mind to own a property. Some of the "awakened" may start to look for investment properties but majority are aiming for:

1. Cars/Motors > The higher end the better.
2. Fashion sense > The coolest the better
3. Mobile phone
4. Getting married > Age of 25 is an age of desperation for love.
5. Fancy vacation
6. Social status > After achieving above points, we can claimed a somewhat "status" that we are brainwashed to believing it exist.

I am quite active checking FB, major of my news feed is about food, vacation photo, new car, getting married, but no one yet claim to own a house.

But if you think logically, there is no sentiment for our generation to own a house (yet) even after marriage. We are still looking for that "One" job, hence we might go to several places. If we are still singles, living with friends are the best thing that could happen. Do we need to worry about the increase of house price? I think we only cares about what phone will samsung produce to beat Apple. I know I cant generalize all my friends but most of my FB friends are also undergraduate, and sadly our education has not helped much in this matter.

If you want to wait for us, wait 2~3 years, when 1 of us started to own a house. When it become a trend, it will become a nice bubble. Until some of us with salary of 2k++ started to DP for a 300K property.

Just sharing my observation biggrin.gif
*
Thanks for sharing.

From point #4 above, won't future wifey bug you to get your own place?? Or woman only date/marry you if u got roof over your head??

Somehow buying property will be on the list for young guys, I still remember the 4 "C" requirement mentioned by lang lui to me when I was dating:

Career
Cash
Credit Card
Condo

πŸ˜„πŸ’°πŸ’³πŸ’

Is it any different today?? πŸ‘€


hondaracer
post Jan 2 2014, 12:12 AM

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Critical Signs of Bubble:

Lots of pitch black units in Sri Pilmoor GnG bungalow located in Ara Damansara.
Lots of pitch black unit in Tropicana Grande.

These are supposed to be high end properties, located in hot spots.

πŸ™ˆπŸ™‰πŸ™ŠπŸ’°πŸ’°πŸ’°πŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰πŸ“ˆπŸ“ˆπŸ“ˆπŸ’£πŸ’£πŸ’£


hondaracer
post Jan 2 2014, 12:15 AM

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QUOTE(twincharger07 @ Jan 2 2014, 12:11 AM)
you missed 1 C - Car

new mantra is 5-B

Businessman
Billionaire
Bungalow
BMW/Bentley
Branded lifestyle
*
Good one, I missed one C: I was in siangapore, it was 4C, when I returned to KL it was 5C.

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