Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

 some story..., ...to ponder

views
     
TSonibaru
post Oct 31 2013, 07:25 AM, updated 13y ago

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
161 posts

Joined: Nov 2011
First of all, a little background:

In South Korea, World of Warcraft's popularity has been certainly waning down. It is nowhere to be found in Top 10 game rankings in terms of usage in PC cafes, and it is a well-known fact that most of the servers are suffering from severe lack of populations. Other games such as League of Legends have been rapidly growing, and Mists of Pandaria expansion did not help much; if it did not hurt in fact.

Some Korean WoW players have pointed out that one of the factors for such decrease in player number could be that Korean players are getting too competitive and hard-hearted. I am not 100% sure about this, but their servers seem to have different lockouts for 10 mans and 25 mans, and I think, at one point, their servers were resetting every 3-4 days, which give them more chances to raid. Such changes have forced many Korean players to be as hardcore as they can be, leaving no room to breathe and forgive others for their mistakes. Many new players, especially people who just started playing WoW (surprisingly), could not adapt to such situations because no one would help them understand the game better. And the whole community was getting more elitist in general, with most of the players playing from the original WoW, since WoW has been around almost 10 years. And the whole topic of 'bullying' and 'cyber-bullying' has been a major issue in a Korean society.

Then THIS happened.

Original post in "Inven" community (in Korean language): http://www.inven.co.kr/board/powerbbs.php?come_idx=4&l=2933

There have been thousands of replies and reactions to this incident, and apparently there have been visible changes in servers, and the whole community have asked themselves: What happened to the good ol' WoW we enjoyed?

Below is my translation of the whole incident and several posts related to it. Not perfectly literal translation though.

----------------------------------------------

Thread: He needed attention and help... The story of Zul'jin server 'outcast' warrior.

In the afternoon of February 3rd, a player who identified himself as a PUG raid leader/organizer of Zul'jin server posted a thread titled "Zul'jin server outcast", and it has been the hottest topic in the Korean WoW community.

Below is the thread:

----------------------------------------------

Sub-Thread: Zul'jin server outcast

Hello, I am one of the many players who have been playing WoW for 8 years.
I am writing this because I had quite an incident today.
I'm not sure where to start... I will just state what comes to my mind. Please read.

One fine Saturday afternoon, I was organizing a PUG raid.
There was a whisper.
"DPS Warrior, ilvl 496, I'd like to go!"
Hmm... he was quite infamous in our server. DPS below tanks. "The Hole". He was well-known by raid leaders for his lack of skills which eventually break apart any raids.
I told him that it was to be a 10-man raid, and gently said no.

"Well... sir, you are not intentionally avoiding me, right...? I was really thankful when you brought me to ToES last time..."
Yes... I brought him to ToES once, without knowing about him, and he did 30k DPS to the last boss. I could never forget him.
But, seeing him saying he was thankful, I suddenly felt bad and sorry.
I was like... !@#$... Was I one of the snobs who would calculate and bring only maniacs to make an easy raid...? I felt really bad, so I gave him a reply.

I was not able to gather up a full raid anyways that day, so I was able to talk to him for a long time.
He was saying: "I really want to do better DPS, but I don't know how to do that... Even if I join a raid, I don't qualify to get any gold (Translator: In all Korean servers, they pay gold to loot items, and players who didn't get any loot divide up the gold in the end, if their DPS/HPS qualify), so I can't get much gold... which again affects my gear settings. I can't join any raid nowadays. No one would bring me. I whisper, no one answers... Please help... My current guild wouldn't even help me... Please."

And I felt really really really bad. I inspected his gears. He was using Stam gems, wrong gems on red sockets, wrong enchants and everything... And the whole reforging was just totally wrong.
After an hour of trying to organize a raid, I just called it, and I was on GameTalk (Korean Vent) with him to teach him gear settings, rotations, and basic DPS strategies.
You know you don't even get "Yes" on the GameTalk nowadays?
He was answering "Yes" to every sentence I was saying, like he was spamming. He was really learning.
I wanted to bring him on to my guild, so I can keep him closely to help him as much as I can.
Then I never expected my guildies would object.

"Brother... Please don't ginvite him, please..."
"Oh, if he's coming, I'm out of this guild. Sorry."
He was that infamous, sucked too bad in many dungeons and raids. So everyone in the server knew him, and hated him.
And I didn't know my guildies were on the same boat.
Still, I asked him to join my guild, and he was like, "Is that really OK??" "Thank you so much... I will speak to my current GM first and go over there."
He was saying "thank you" multiple times, and gquitted. Then, because of my guildies' objections, I ended up not being able to ginvite him.
I didn't know what to say, and he first said: "Oh... There are people there who don't like me... That's OK! smile.gif"
And I realized that he knows he was hated by many. I really didn't want him to know, but he already knew. I was even more sorry.

All I could do was just letting him know more about the game, and encouraging him to change his character name.
I don't think I helped him a lot, but he said thank you so many times, and I still feel really bad.

All my fellow players, I had so much fun playing WoW.
But one day, because of random LFG dungeons and LFR raids, we didn't have to hang out with people in the server any more. And the game got old. And people have been saying about WoW: "A game for only maniacs and hardcores. Noobs not allowed. Nothing humane about it."
Yes... I did feel that.
If you went to army, you'd know that there are all kinds of people in this world.
This guy was different too.
It took him good 4 hours to understand a few things I taught him.
He was not as fast as you are in this game. He was not as game-savvy as we are.
I even got to know some stuff about his personal life and his family situation, and there were a lot of problems.
He was old, and he was just trying to have fun playing WoW, because he was stressed from the real world out there.
He was just trying to do his best, but he was hated by many fellow players in the server, without getting any help. And I felt really bad.

If there is any warrior who can help him, please whisper me.
And people, please do not hate and bully bad players too much... Some of them are not intentionally being bad.
There are certain jackasses and losers who are intentionally being bad, but not everyone.
There are some people who really need attention and help to be better, like this person.
I will wait for your response.

----------------------------------------------------

This thread has been the top thread for this week, and the actual 'outcast' warrior posted a thread himself, saying 'sorry' to his fellow players in Zul'jin server:

----------------------------------------------------

Sub-Thread: I would like to apologize and ask for your forgiveness... I know it's late, but can you give me one more chance?

Hello, I was reading the original thread and I thought I should post one myself to speak to all of you... I am that 'outcast warrior'.
I know that I wasted much of your time in many raids and dungeons, because I was bad.
In all the raids I joined, my DPS was below any tank, and I would really like to apologize to all players who had to suffer because of my poor play.
Many people have been posting encouraging words to me, and I wanted to say something here too, so here I am.

I am indeed a bad player, as you all know.
Many people in my last guild explained how to DPS, great websites, forums, and guides, but I could not understand what they were saying. I was reading up all the posts in Inven community, but I could not get better. I didn't even know how to make macros.
WoW is my first online game ever, and it was just so difficult for me to understand certain things.
And the raid leader, who posted the original thread, taught me how to DPS, how to install add-ons like DBM, how to reforge, and how to set up gears.
And it was totally my fault that I didn't get to learn those things all this time. And I deserve to be bullied.
All my friends in Zul'jin server, I know you all hate me, but when I log on and see any of you, I really feel like all of you are my friends... In fact, I see you more often than my friends in real life... I know many of you hate me and blocked me, but please forgive me once.
Again, this was my first online game... And I made your raids 'hell' because I didn't know anything about the encounters. I apologize for that.

Can you please give me one more chance to play with you again? If I make same mistakes again and again, without fixing anything, then I will only do quests and LFRs.
I know you don't even want to see my face, but I just like being in a community. I know you do not want to see me around, so I just hide myself around mountains or corners of big cities...
And I feel so thankful to raid leaders and raiders who brought me onboard time to time... But then I was only a burden to them. I am truly sorry. Please do not hate me so much...

I really want to play with you and have fun. I know this post is not enough to forgive me, but I really want to show you that I have changed and will keep changing.
Happy New Year, and if you forgive me, I will be a better player I promise.
And for the last time, thank you to all raid leaders who tried to work with me, and sorry...

----------------------------------------------------

And even more players replied. Not just WoW players, but players from all different communities (Diablo, Starcraft, you name it) were checking the thread and posting encouraging words.

Many people cried. Many people remembered what it was like to play as newbies. Many people questioned: "Why are we not having fun any more? What happened to our good ol' WoW? What happened to us?"

People started talking about how much they sucked when they first played this game, and shared how brutal and non-forgiving they are to other players nowadays, leaving no room for mistakes or lack of skills.

I almost cried reading all those posts and threads. I myself was a newbie once. Every person starts somewhere. I remember when I was tanking on my warrior with Hypnotic Blade (spell dagger). I remember my first raid and how bad I was. I remember how many people have helped me and encouraged me to play this game on the level I am in now.

This whole incident has been a huge impact to the whole Korean WoW community that has been waning down. In many servers, there have been movements to create "Mentor Raids", in which raid leaders will give detailed guidance and mentor players to understand the raid and their classes better. It is such a positive change. And I hope this whole incident makes a positive change that will last for a long time in many people's hearts.

I remembered: This is why I play a MMORPG. This is why I play WoW. And I just wanted to share with you, so sorry for such long post.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7864486403
GetMePhones
post Oct 31 2013, 07:37 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
163 posts

Joined: Sep 2013
From: Somewhere between sanity and psychotic

A rather beautiful story...
it's moving...though too bad
most people wouldn't read it.
games are that much fun when its
enjoyed, too much competition kills a game
ray123
post Oct 31 2013, 10:10 AM

Senior Citizen
*******
Senior Member
2,510 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
I cried.
mengdez
post Oct 31 2013, 10:18 AM

No title
*****
Senior Member
766 posts

Joined: Nov 2004


Well, this forum already got a lot of elites kind of players, nothing will change, the mentality of them won't just because this post.
make87
post Oct 31 2013, 10:36 AM

On my way
****
Senior Member
684 posts

Joined: Mar 2010
lol ~ well , it will get bored someday , and that is the day you will forget all about this bullying thing.
adam20
post Oct 31 2013, 12:44 PM

Casual
***
Junior Member
462 posts

Joined: Jun 2007


Damn this story is so sad. But yea its better to teach the newb players than avoid them forever..
shojikun
post Oct 31 2013, 02:55 PM

エオルゼア
******
Senior Member
1,475 posts

Joined: Dec 2007
From: Sharyalan


QUOTE(mengdez @ Oct 31 2013, 10:18 AM)
Well, this forum already got a lot of elites kind of players, nothing will change, the mentality of them won't just because this post.
*
we can change, if we allow ourself to be negative and not strive for that community, then we lost.

We can change.


Madgeiser
post Oct 31 2013, 03:17 PM

Casual
***
Junior Member
433 posts

Joined: Jan 2003


QUOTE(mengdez @ Oct 31 2013, 10:18 AM)
Well, this forum already got a lot of elites kind of players, nothing will change, the mentality of them won't just because this post.
*
True, i happen to unfortunately know a few.
Anyhow, practices makes perfect. You just need to keep practicing. Connection is important too (Latency!)! tongue.gif
ganstream1
post Oct 31 2013, 05:01 PM

Casual
***
Junior Member
432 posts

Joined: Jan 2007
Wow... what an eye opener.

Thank you for posting this.
wanritsu
post Oct 31 2013, 06:15 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
267 posts

Joined: Jul 2012
From: live and let live

Manly tears T.T

Dreadlock13
post Oct 31 2013, 08:09 PM

Casual
***
Junior Member
480 posts

Joined: Aug 2011
im thankful that my Free company has a great GM and cool people in it,
everyone is easy going,

i even apologize to my guild master for being so slow,
but he Ok with it smile.gif


lightning90
post Nov 1 2013, 06:49 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
183 posts

Joined: Dec 2009


I had to beat my neighbor's kids to regain my masculinity back.

Jokes aside, it is sad that gaming got to where it is today. My first MMO was RO, I knew absolutely nothing about it and I can't even recall doing any quest in it. Then comes Cabal, I actually did some quest after pure-grinding on RO, I just had fun doing the quest, PK/PVP, at lower level. No instance, no raid. Just me playing with a bunch of people. Then I learn more and more about MMO genre, taking what I learn from previous games to the next. Honestly, it sickens me how people can easily forget that at one point in time, they knew nothing.

I had my own Legion on aion, made mainly for newbies like myself back then, I helped them power-level myself, each one of them. I taught them everything they know about end game dungeons (it was dark poeta at the time. Looooong time ago.) I watched them grow from total nublet who don't even know how to play their own class, I studied their class just to teach them how to play. And then.. Months later, they're all 'leet'. I still help the newer players, help them, teach them. Yet those 'leet' players kept taunting the newbies, telling them to leave the Legion because they're 'useless' and 'dumb' for asking 'obvious' questions. This coming from a bunch of nublet that didn't even know how to choose proper stigma skills and use those Sin rune combos once upon a time. Disbanded the legion due to massive leetness overtaking the legion's original theme. I stayed in Poeta and helped out the newbies while they're still low-level, so they don't get the 'noob' stamp when they make it to cap.

It's human nature to forget one's crappy origin, I guess. And I understand that, punishing end game dungeon/raid that you can only do x times per x days kinda add the pressure to succeed in the first try, but nobody even bothered to teach the 'less skilled' people. Even the other day, my friend and I ran copperbell, and the tank was absolutely clueless how to tank. The other player kept insulting the tank, whining and b*tching during the whole run (said player got level 50 dragoon that failed garuda hm over and over). My friend main as tank but decided to level up cnj for that run, and helped the sucky tank, taught him about the skills, red area/aoe, and guess what? By the end boss, he never lost aggro again (and he seemed to get the handle of multi-mob aggro, something not even I can do just yet).

Like the post in OP said, sometimes, people don't suck out of choice. And just linking posts doesn't work for some people. I find that people learn better when they ask something and you answer, or you teach them in your own words instead of copy-pasting tutorials. Made an FC for newbies, I'm just hoping that whatever happened in Aion doesn't repeat itself here once these newbies made it to end game.
mengdez
post Nov 1 2013, 10:49 AM

No title
*****
Senior Member
766 posts

Joined: Nov 2004


QUOTE(shojikun @ Oct 31 2013, 02:55 PM)
we can change, if we allow ourself to be negative and not strive for that community, then we lost.

We can change.
*
Well, for me, everyone has their own interest of playing a game, i don't think you can change someone behavior (talk about gaming, even marry couple can't change their couple behavior), it is best that we just left them alone, from World of Warcraft, i seldom group with Asean people, not that i am not Asean but i met too many elite kind of players in this region just simply likes to show his supremacy over a game.

I play a game just to have fun, that's all.
z4520ft
post Nov 4 2013, 12:43 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
154 posts

Joined: Feb 2009


...

This post has been edited by z4520ft: Nov 4 2013, 12:43 PM
darkskies
post Nov 4 2013, 01:10 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
2,336 posts

Joined: Nov 2007
From: 特別壱参番対ゴミ人間調査隊大将



As mentioned, noone is born to be a pro.
A pro doesnt mean being in full overkill gear.
Gathering a full set of overkill gear doesnt mean the player acquire it himself.
We're dependable on each other regardless of how informed or skillful we're.
Players who tend to despise and snort at lowly geared or poorfully skilled teammates need to reevalute themselves.
It isnt that the player who wants to be poorly equiped or unskilled in his job.
It's just that noone gave him a chance.
CloudDave
post Nov 4 2013, 03:52 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
174 posts

Joined: Dec 2004


As a complete noob to MMORPG and online gaming in general, I know exactly what the guy is going through. Though I have to say, sometimes having a 'mentor' definitely beats doing the research yourself.

On the other hand, there are some noobs who are rather full of themselves and refuse to change or even listen to advice. Some even go as far as scolding you for giving them tips. I account that to stubbornness and plain foolish pride.

If the person is willing to learn, I won't mind spending hours upon hours explaining stuff to them. But the change has to come from within also. For me, whenever someone gives me some tips I try to follow as best as I can.

Even if I fail, at least I know I did my best. Unfortunately, there are those who are too elitist to even care. I am lucky in the sense that my current FC has some really good players who take the time and effort to 'carry' noobs like me.

Some aren't so lucky and end up having bitter experiences in an otherwise communal-based game. When all is said and done, it's usually the community that speaks for itself. That's why certain individuals migrate here and there until they find a group suited to them.

If you wanna be elitist and be the best, then look for a guild that represents that. Those in it for the fun can also do so. You just have to be aware of which crowd you join. This condition doesn't merely exist online. It's a reflection of the real world. Perhaps it is just amplified due to the 'anonymity' of the people involved.

Good looking people and affluent people always gain the upper hand even in real life society. We pretend it doesn't but there you go. Just find a balance that suits you the best and if you don't like it: leave. smile.gif

/End rant
mikonito
post Nov 7 2013, 03:51 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
229 posts

Joined: Jan 2009


you guys should watch Log Horizon anime, they compress most of the problem mmo facing now such as elites player, big guild vs small guild, newbie treatment ect. nice anime thou
ray123
post Nov 7 2013, 09:08 AM

Senior Citizen
*******
Senior Member
2,510 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
There are some who feel "entitled" to be helped by veterans. When explained that gearing up and grinding the same dungeons over and over again for gear, I can imagine them going "ain't nobody got time fo' dat!" and demand to be carried in Garuda and Titan because they want their relic immediately, not realizing they still need 900 ATPs for the quenching oil anyway.

I applaud some who walk such newbies with 3000hp through Titan, but I can't help but wonder if this is too much pampering and making them to be bad players in the future. I can already imagine these newly minted 50s with their relic weapon but with lvl 38 armor and accessories asking for FC-only dungeon speedruns and annoying the entire FC with their selfish demands.
lightning90
post Nov 16 2013, 10:43 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
183 posts

Joined: Dec 2009


QUOTE(ray123 @ Nov 7 2013, 09:08 AM)
There are some who feel "entitled" to be helped by veterans. When explained that gearing up and grinding the same dungeons over and over again for gear, I can imagine them going "ain't nobody got time fo' dat!" and demand to be carried in Garuda and Titan because they want their relic immediately.
I remember that from my days on AION. Grabbed a bunch of newbies in party to help them with powerleveling, and while helping some gear up for the tougher areas, one left after cussing me out for being too slow. The next day, he saw those same party members but 10 levels above him, and whispered me asking that I help him too. Sadly, I was busy helping the rest of my legion mates, and was again cussed out for being 'selfish'. Luckily the other 3 was polite enough and ended up joining my legion. :3
darkskies
post Nov 25 2013, 09:01 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
2,336 posts

Joined: Nov 2007
From: 特別壱参番対ゴミ人間調査隊大将



QUOTE(lightning90 @ Nov 16 2013, 10:43 AM)
I remember that from my days on AION. Grabbed a bunch of newbies in party to help them with powerleveling, and while helping some gear up for the tougher areas, one left after cussing me out for being too slow. The next day, he saw those same party members but 10 levels above him, and whispered me asking that I help him too. Sadly, I was busy helping the rest of my legion mates, and was again cussed out for being 'selfish'. Luckily the other 3 was polite enough and ended up joining my legion. :3
*
Humans bound to rely on someone naturally. Each time u help them, they bind themselves to you with a chain. Eventually you become their mount and they ride on you. Most of the time i stick to solo because i dont like to get chain down by someone or i myself putting chain on somebody else.
I believe thing in the sense that i get help by others, i will need to contribute something in return.
But the problem is i dont really have much time in running other activities. Joining their party in some continuous activity might slow me down in other aspects. In the end i manage to get fully geared from head to toe with the top gear in one specific class. But i didnt get to level other class or even a single craft once i get tied down to these continuous "run" scheme.

2 Pages  1 2 >Top
 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0226sec    0.29    5 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 21st December 2025 - 12:04 AM