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This post has been edited by alaskanbunny: Oct 23 2013, 08:11 AM

I saw Monash and Nottingham

what happened ?

i wonder how many people contributed data for malaysia as compared to the other countries?

can't see what you've posted. the link seems to be broken too.

Too bad not all of us can afford to study abroad

Given a choice, I would prefer a foreign grad but then.....

A fren's son graduated from a oz university and wrote in to apply for a post with an international bank. He was among the 100 shorlisted and was given a short interview over the phone and thereafter was among the few shortlisted and asked to attend an interview in person.

He speaks good english and was a good communicator but the interviewer was in for a shock when he notice from the results transcript that this chap just merely passed most of his papers with some supplementary passes.

If it was a marketing position it doesn't really matter but this position deals with analysis of figures and comes up with a summary and interpretations.

Impossible to have all student graduated from above universities

What is alaskanbunny's point?

no idea... dont know the methodology.. they are not professional stats coy

not broken leh..

heh? scholarship?

i also merely pass during uni time... but from kindergarten all the way till college i had straight As.... probably lost interest or teenage puppy love broke my heart... anyway, i found out that in local unis, 1/3 of the class gets 1st class hons... and some of these students dont even have a single A or usually pretty poor results during high school.. not implying that all grads from local gov unis are not up to par, but it says something.. and these are from um, ukm, usm..

impossible for everyone to be rich, impossible for everyone to do well, impossible for a lot of things...

just sharing something i had found on the net..

This post has been edited by alaskanbunny: Oct 24 2013, 12:54 AM

Thanks! It was a good factual-sharing from the non-academic perspective.

Do you want to change people's perception of Malaysian Universities?

definitely.. and hopefully one day i can be proud to be promoting the premier msian school to others... but unfortunately and sad to say, chances of this happening is diminishing year by year...

woot in the top 100!

You had the intelligence but got love struck. The interviewer would have asked you, what happened?

Unfortunately, first impression counts unless limited choices

In my experience, it all depends on your employer, some employer only see the academic achievements, some see attitude.. i dunno how the survey is being done, but fresh grads from local uni still can cari makan.. haha...

well this survey is conducted globally so highly unlikely Malaysia uni will be in the chart. however if its a local survey,then Malaysian uni would be well placed

it depends on the employers and also the companies. Most companies still employ local grads because either they are cheapskate (most of the time local grads demand lower salary) or they have no other option because oversea grads are rare

what you mentioned is actually very common in a lot of universities. take note that the method of learning and examination during primary, secondary schools and college is quite different when compared to university. hence the difference in results.

a person who merely passed in secondary school could be a top scorer in university and vice versa.

in fact, you even see this during the transition from lower secondary to upper secondary too (going from pure multiple choice exams to short question & essay questions)

it's same like in out countries.
i do personally know a few companies in uk are outsourcing their cad drawings to india so that they don't need to hire a full time cad operator

Us too at times hire outside people because if i'm not mistaken , most foreigners are happy to have a job and would end working extra just to keep that job secure, whereas their own people tend to take things for granted.

Are you hinting that statistically, students tend to do better in Soalan Aneka Pilihan (SAP) than in Essay-type questions (long answers) or Problems/Computational questions?

no, I'm saying that there are those who do well in one, and there are others who do better in the other.

True! I'm generally bad at Soalan Aneka Pilihan (SAP) because the rest of the choices in some questions tend to distract my concentration. For example, "A" is logically correct, but "D" also seems acceptable...

Now, they make it simpler:

Which of the following is not in Malaysia:

1. Perak
2. Pahang
3. Perlis
4. Kedah
5. Singapore

When you complain, they will take note.

You mean local unis or private unis ?

Does it make any difference?

they did, i mentioned i gotta work while i study which was partially true.. but not the main reason.. hahaha

well... went through 4 interviewers, the 1st to 3rd didnt look at my results and the 3rd was the ceo.. she accepted me.. the 4th was the chairman, when he noticed, it was too late for him to retract... hahahaha, a little bit of luck

well, it was conducted in countries that are listed below, including malaysia... therefore recruiters from even msia are within the sample

probably that was it... anyway, shouldnt have studied... i think i would have enjoyed being a pilot

local public unis... out of the so many, at least 1-3 should be designated as the country's premier school... but unfortunately non are up to standard including UM... so sad to say

exactly against what academic standard?

definitely not the local msian standard..

very easy, a crude method would be to take the criteria used by those ranking reports..

admit the best, create individuals that can think for themselves not mindless robots, challenge the norm when it is wrong, contribute to society, bring betterment to humankind... stuff like that

hardly any of these exist...

yup. and even more interesting is the computational type of exams that you mentioned above too.

Comp Sci that I went through had most of the exam papers in 3 hours. The first hour will determine if you're gonna pass or fail. In fact, one look at the paper will already tell you if you're gonna ace it, or struggle for just a pass. If you're still working on it by the end of the 2nd hour, chances are that you're gonna flunk it. Its just one of those courses where most of the subjects will have a really odd looking grade curve that plays hell when the markers tries to apply the bell curve to it.

Alright! Even when you claimed that any of these hardly exist, they are good criteria. Now, let's go 360°.

Generally, when we set standards for people, we need to ensure that the standard we set is not open to misinterpretation and provide as much appropriate detail as it can. One tried and trusted method that is used by numerous organizations in all sectors, is called S.M.A.R.T. Standard. You probably already know S.M.A.R.T. stands for:

S = Specific
M = Measurable
A = Achievable
R = Relevant
T = Time-bound

Here are some examples to you would want to tie in to globally acceptable S.M.A.R.T. Standard. Without that, the criteria will probably end up with paradoxical thinking, e.g., "I define the BEST, so this must be the BEST."

(1) What specifically is the BEST?
(2) How many individuals should the university train them to think for themselves?
(3) What are the reasons they don't like to be challenged? Lack confidence in their own ability? Or fear they are being set up to fail?
(4) How relevant would you like the universities to show contributions to the society?
(5) When is the good time to bring betterment to humankind?

This post has been edited by Critical_Fallacy: Oct 25 2013, 01:01 AM

As a foreign grad (Australia), and as someone who works in one of the big 4 for almost 4 years, it is true that foreign grads are generally more outspoken and have better command in english, and local grads are generally more submissive...and many of them are fairly hardworking and have better technical skills especially the ACCA grads...

Academic results is not everything (a straight As student many times do not perform as well as other second class upper uni grads), but still it is academic results is still an indicator of a person's intelligence (which is important because at any kind of jobs the smart ones learn and pick up faster), and attitude (to get straight As most likely one has to work his/her asses off and thus more likely will work his/her asses off for the company).....

In my line of work the most important elements to become a good and effective worker is very good common sense + very good logic + the right attitude........normally staffs who satisfy these 3 elements deliver their work rather quickly and accurately with minimal guidance.....technical skills are important, but it's not a life and death situation if we can't recite the financial reporting standards/auditing standards by heart........I suck in these standards......

Having said that, it all depends on wat the job requires....... if it's a job that requires day and night analysis of figures and ratios, maybe someone who merely passes most of his papers wouldn't do coz most likely he has no determination to put in the long hours and to crack his head in order to analyse the whole damn thing properly... but it could be because he was just too playful in uni.......check his high school results for further referenced then.....

I have a friend who can talk like a salesman who's capable of selling an igloo to an eskimo, but he grades really sucks, he graduated from one of the very famous international school in KL, his dad used to be co-owner of a very famous club in KL and thus he was CEO of that club.....

He could smart talk his way in getting wat he wants....but he changes from one job to the next........this guy is only a marketing grad but he got an internship in one of the big 4 back in Australia coz his team won 1st place in a case study+presentation conducted by one of the big 4, after his internship he never got hired as a full time coz i think the boss found out he's not that good...he changes from uni to the next, the 1st uni kicked him out coz he forged his transcript (he did 1 or 2 years study in Malaysia before he transferred his credits to Australia)..... after that he changes from one job to the next....he got job offers in a company to do marketing, during that time when he was with the company he was driving a Porche (this is real) and he said his company let him drives it but we didnt think he was telling the truth coz we know he lies about everything most of the time, most likely that Porche is for for the occasional usage of higher level management staffs from marketing department while they were doing client liasing+PR...true enough he got fired after a few months....had a nervous breakdown coz his gf left him, his mom even had to go to Australia to take care of him when he had nervous breakdown......

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This post has been edited by henghuang: Dec 2 2013, 07:54 PM

is this list according to the list of top 100 universities..

The fact that some people think that the only thing these unis have above Malaysian unis is academic achievements is telling about the flaws of the education system here.

Top schools already get the best students, so academic excellence is generally already a given with the general student body. What makes these unis distinguish themselves from the rest is that they are successful in cultivating independence, critical thinking as well as work ethic within their culture. It's in the blood of their graduates, and employers obviously have observed that.

Credibility of a school's degree also matters a lot. I'm always dumbfounded whenever I hear about undeserving students passing, and their fellow coursemates responding "Aiya whatever la, doesn't affect me also, everybody happy wat". Well guess what? It does affect you, because recruiters aren't stupid. The more your school does this, the more meaningless your degree becomes.

I would say it's a FACT. Many students are unable to handle computational questions bcs they cannot analyse or think logically. They are unable to handle essay-type questions bcs they are weak in language,esp'ly english and poor in logical thinking/analysis. Bcs of spoon-feeding and the lack of reading they cannot write on questions that require some facts. I've seen exam transcripts of of Form 4/5/6 students and undergrads. How could they expect to be given 15-25 marks by writing a one-sentence answer to an open-ended question like ... Why do you agree or disagree? The answer - I agree bcs ...or I disagree bcs ... that's all. No elaboration. They do not know how to present their case,how to argue for or against etc,how to persuade the readers to agree with their views which they dun seem to have. That's the low quality of students and graduates today.

There are also masters and Phd students of such low calibre. You should read the kind of sentences these post-grad students write. Even those at the NUS can't write well. I've seen some in my time.

well, u cant take the few u know and generalize it across the whole school... apparently those u know arent up to par, ppl say if u wanna be successful u gotta mix with the right ppl which u arent doing... also internationally, ppl dont agree with what you're saying bout nus

Local grads lack social and cultural capital. Ditto whatever @S_Sienz said.

I'm not just saying about NUS. It's happening all over the world at almost all the unis except perhaps the ivy leagues. It's the falling standards all over the world but it's worse in MY. How do you know I'm mixing with the wrong people? Dun tok like you know me. I could be doing better than you,you know and perhaps I am too so dun patronize.

if it happens all over the world then its not a comparison point... with u saying 'except perhaps' means u are not too sure?

standards arent dropping, because it is set by the general student population at that time and in fact it is going up not down due to competitiveness and increase population for the good schools

well, u already mentioned bout u seeing some of them in your time, i didnt mention it...

If you plan to work in Malaysia, IPTA with cgpa around 3.5 is enough. I have friends graduated from UMT and Unimap working at Petronas and Intel now. Starting salary 3k+

hi there...

the question is not whether enough or not... the question is whether they are up for high value employment..

1. u can just handpick a few and use them as an example.. we should look at the cohort in general.. not the top 90% percentile...

2. petronas is a glc, intel in msia is a manufacturing cost centre... rm3k i must say is a reasonable pay in msia... but internationally, its not very good

In public universities locally, the quality of graduates produced is getting bad from each passing year. Not too say that private unis are much better but most at least try to maintain their standards due to the competitive nature of this business.

In public universities, the fees payable are so much less and despite the deteriorating standards, they are never short of students in filling up the places.

It's okay. I'm not in the frame of mind to argue or to explain further. The good schools are an exception. Generally,the standards are going down everywhere.

bro, constructive arguments mer.. anyway... thanks for sharing

Yeah bro,thx for sharing too. You must forgive me bcs I had some serious problems to handle so could not explain further. Yes,arguments should be constructive so we learn. I wasn't talking about the top schools but even some good schools have seen standards dropping. It's a worldwide phenomenon but in MY it's generally very bad. If they simply admit spm holders who had never studied/worked hard thru'out their school career into matric,then uni what do you expect?

I agree. The public unis are picking up all the trash. The private ones are no better bcs they have to survive so all those rubbishy ones who can afford the exorbitant fees are more than welcomed. These are the copy-pasta/copy-cat students who are actually "unemployable". In my time I've spoken to so-called graduate who cannot understand a basic simple question which many primary 3 bright kids could easily understand. I used to get application letters written in real trashy English which I never bothered to read.

I agree with both 1 and 2.

Mind sharing that question ?

+1

When I advertise for vacancies, I asked them to write to my email address and most send their cv. When I find them ok, I call for an interview and normally ask them to fill up a form. I dont ask them to fill up the form now as most need about 1 hour to fill up the form.

Its only when I offer them the job, then I will ask them to take the form back, fill it up and passed it back to me later.

goodness 1 hour? Sounds like you're joking but I'm not surprised at today's graduates who dun seem to
understand basic English. Thank God,there are also some good ones around. The teruk ones are those who dun make an effort to improve themselves.