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 2ndhand 308Turbo or New Preve, which is worth it?

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jayraptor
post Oct 23 2013, 11:39 AM

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QUOTE(Dwango @ Oct 22 2013, 09:23 PM)
Don't buy used French cars especially Peugeot. If you want to know the answer, go ask experienced mechanics and used car dealers. If you want to buy Peugeot, buy new and within the warranty period. Preve Turbo is good value.
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Lol!!! Pug is sold all over the world and is famous in hot harsh desert Iran as the locals there luxury dream cars. Even if the Pug doesn't last long, it is still using a globally recognised engine & gearbox.

As for TS:
Preve/Suprima Turbo, the engine design is taken by modifying old MMC 4G92 engine. When MMC merged with Chrysler and wanted to heal its ruined reputation, they took back almost everything from P1. That was when the S4 Campo engine was made after 4G15 is banned from Wajunk. Its turbocharger is obsolete wastegate type turbo that most brands no longer use them due to lag and prone to carbon buildup. Preve/Suprima turbo could only start spinning from 2000rpm or higher, depends on gas pressure. On certain sudden deceleration and needs to accelerate again, the gas pressure might need much higher RPM to spin turbine.

FC wise, refinement and proper turbo go to Pug's Prince THP engine. Want to go for car with turbo, make sure it is Variable Geometry Turbocharger or Twin-scroll Turbocharger that could operate from lower RPM as in Pug THP at 1400rpm with no more lag. Check with Pug owners especially newer batch on maintenance. The earlier Pugs, there have been incompatible issue with our hot & humid climate. The new ones, if they are willing to check our weather and come up with proper parts that could withstand our heat, they should be ok. Can't help you on this as my tech buddies have left Pug technical few years ago.

This post has been edited by jayraptor: Oct 23 2013, 11:39 AM
jayraptor
post Oct 25 2013, 10:49 AM

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QUOTE(jfcheong @ Oct 23 2013, 12:00 PM)
So many techinal terms ya... haha
Anythg to do with the weather?
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Our climate is hot and humid. Carmakers should make sure the model they wanted to sell in that particular country could withstand the local weather & temperature there. In Europe nice winter weather, everything tend to last longer there compared to here. So cars that are sold here required stronger material to withstand the heat expansion and also must come with more cooling items such as larger radiator, cooler and the cooling tubes to gearbox.

Those grey imports especially, if they imported cars directly from Japan without much modification done to adapt to our weather, more likely they will breakdown faster. Happen in 90's often, those imported Mercs & Japan only models like Inspire tend to overheat that led to breakdown.

Since the Pug is now assembled locally, the French should know that the cars sold here must be able to withstand our local climate and condition for long term. French deals a lot with Arabs since 70's in many things so they should know what they are doing.
jayraptor
post Oct 25 2013, 10:58 AM

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QUOTE(theanswer @ Oct 24 2013, 11:26 AM)
he failed to mention that suprima/preve use low inertia turbo. peak torque at 2000rpm still can be considered as low and good enough. of course u cant compare with twin scroll or vgt.  rclxms.gif
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As tested, the S4 engine without turbo could hardly pull the Preve/Suprima around. Its torque below 2000rpm (no turbo assist), especially around 1500-1800rpm (as per K3's comment) is way less than 100Nm that is way weaker than other 1.6L engine strength, does it mean you have to floor the pedal to over 2000rpm just to keep the car moving (over 1300kg kerb weight) in bumper to bumper crawl and city driving?

Don't be fooled by the specs, you don't always get the peak torque at 2000rpm with that obsolete turbocharger. Preve/Suprima engine sounds weak when you floor it, like Mr K3xxx modified cars with poor torque, it sounds hollow yet noisy require lots of revving just to keep it moving. Braarrrr Braaarrrr.... This is directed to Mr K3xxxx, not you. Don't be offended. It's using timing belt that could not operate VVT at optimum level.
jayraptor
post Oct 25 2013, 11:07 AM

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QUOTE(Volkswagen2 @ Oct 23 2013, 12:46 PM)
Try not to go for uncertained vehicles which will bring you problems later on. Why not buy new? Nasim's after-sales are notoriously known to be poor, and in the even of a breakdown and parts need to be replaced, it's not only you are paying more for these replacement parts but the possibility that you may need to wait for several weeks for the parts to be available. Few friends who owned Peugeot don't have much good words for it when it comes to reliability and maintenance. When it comes to driving, it can be good. But when problem crops up after warranty period, then you will feel it. Especially if warranty period is over.

The Preve is quite a solid car with decent handling. Only the Turbo engine is not very refined and loud but guess that is what to expect for a vehicle that's below RM70k. Brand new you have peace of mind.

And I believe Proton's after-sales service is anytime better than Peugeot Nasim's too.
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Do you own Volkswagen in the first place? Or you just took that as your username to bash conti with false problems, etc in which you are personally with crappy N-brand.

Based on your comment, it shows that you are the type that stick to Japanese make and won't go conti at all. If that is the case, aren't you supposed to avoid P1 as well when they no longer get MMC engines especially Preve/Suprima? It's not even Japanese made.

Warranty or not, you still fork out own money for the service. Your N-brand Teana/Sylphy, the fragile CVT gearbox maintenance, you still have to pay with own money while under warranty. So what crap are you talking about here? As for the few unlucky but lucky cases for some Sylphy owners that had the CVT gearbox steel belt dislocated a bit, lucky for them it happened while under 3 years warranty, any guarantee for them after the 3 years? How do you explained the X-Trail, Sentra N16 and Cefiro engine blown cases due to excessive overheating when no more warranty? Aren't they paying with own money too?
jayraptor
post Oct 25 2013, 11:15 AM

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QUOTE(dtna7 @ Oct 24 2013, 01:03 AM)
No. Cars like Vios/City reach the century sprint in 11s-12s. If its less than 10 seconds, lots of cars no need to sell liao.

We would see so many ah bengs on the road with Vios / City intimidating others to race everyday. LOL

Some people are so imaginative that they think there is a VTEC "kick" in a City 1.5. Gosh, fanboyism has reached new level~
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To be exact, Vios/City 1.5L 0-100km/h in 11.8s to 12s. The City new one is more sluggish than Vios. By the way, both the Vios/City aren't really performance cars, take them for racing would risk getting into understeer and hit something for thinking they have conti handling.

News for those who praised Insight, Jazz, CRZ hybrid like they have great FC:

http://www.worldcarfans.com/113101664547/h...europe---report

Diesel owned the weaker hybrids in 100% city driving actual FC. People are dumping these cars out of Europe and America. Those people here still want to go for these cars, there'll be lots of surplus stocks when the official phase out begin. So peoples junk is treated as precious gems here. For Japanese makes, only Toyota hybrid still left standing.
jayraptor
post Nov 1 2013, 12:36 PM

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QUOTE(Volkswagen2 @ Oct 27 2013, 11:27 AM)
What is this nonsense you are spewing? And what is it about my N-brand Teana and Sylphy? Why was this in the discussion? I think something is wrong with your head.
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There is no nonsense. Based on your comments all these while, you know nuts about conti. There is nothing in your comment that talks about conti all these. Those who really owned conti could have given some facts properly.

If VW so that unreliable, wonder why so many buy them nowadays? The Passat and Golf look dull but people still go for them when they could go for the nicer Mazda 6. So why is that? For Japanese brand, the most reliable is Toyota followed by Mazda then MMC, etc. Honta is never durable while N-brand, not sure whether they have overcome the overheating issue. Can you explain?
jayraptor
post Nov 12 2013, 09:41 AM

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QUOTE(wayfeel @ Nov 1 2013, 03:59 PM)
beside a toyota, my family n i owned 2 used n 1 new Honda, no problem pun...wat ru talking about lol
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Do you own N-brand like Cefiro, N16, X-Trail that have several cases of overheating at SC? Read properly.

As for your crappy Honda, drive it rough together with your Toyota, 10 years later, you tell me which one still in 1 piece. Answer is Toyota. Honda engine will experience more leakage, wear and tear, failure, etc compared to Toyota. Understand?

This is why Toyota is reliability king. Honda is not, not even close. Mazda, MMC and even Korean Hyundai-Kia are more durable than Honda. You can find Toyota and now Korean made included on harshest condition Arab states today. Mind you, only cars that have proven reliability/durability survive on those terrain and condition.

This post has been edited by jayraptor: Nov 12 2013, 09:58 AM
jayraptor
post Nov 12 2013, 09:56 AM

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QUOTE(runemastertan @ Nov 1 2013, 02:48 PM)
Please know that a lot of people buying the car does not mean it is good. Is Proton Saga BLM good?
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Ofcourse, car price here are so expensive, they don't have much choice.

Thanks to people like jolokia mentality that put their own priority and interest on top, they ruin things up and make others suffer. Even he himself not getting much bonus and incentives compared to few years back due to all time low car sales and economic slump. He doesn't think about others, so he too became victim of other bad people with similar mentality as his.

When more and more people are poor, every1 is holding back their horses and stick to exiting rides. Would you pay RM20 to go to this weekend motorshow? jolokia will definitely be there with his free visitor pass granted to car companies certain staff.


jayraptor
post Nov 20 2013, 11:15 AM

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QUOTE(wayfeel @ Nov 12 2013, 06:02 PM)
Crappy? Lol....why are you so emotional &..

...I don't get your logic.
U mention honda never reliable but it's few of the more reliable brands irregardless of order...my previous post I just mention we have hontas at home and didn't give problem. I think it's a valid owner input/
these r little cars not to be driven harsh like in Arab states, what has Korean cars and toyota made in the harshest condition has relevancy to do with honda being a reliable  car for a normal household usage in malaysia ROFL....
Are you hallucinating there. and are the brands toyotas and korean car brands being under attack here?

most cars after 10years will not be surprisingly to replace parts be it any brands. there are both 10 over to 20 years  toyotas and hontas cars OTR
DUDE....R U OK
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You move your house and workplace to industrial area where the roads are in poorest condition. Then you tell me whether your Toyota better or Honda better after few years? Even Korean made is way more reliable than your Honda. Those who say Honda more reliable than Toyota are nothing more than some people that live in areas with good road condition, don't have to travel much in city traffic crawl and don't have to exposed to harsh weather much.


jayraptor
post Nov 22 2013, 10:18 AM

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QUOTE(wayfeel @ Nov 21 2013, 01:43 AM)
Ya I said for "normal household usage in malaysia" thats about majority of the ppls' need fulfill....at least far more than how much vote coalition could get in the last few PRU so I think 99% still extraordinarily high. then why does Jay still wants to argue about the 1% toyota does better than hontas
Logically speaking, you buy car that fits your purpose. means if you live plantation, rough terrain, harsh road condition , u buy 4WD, pickups, that fits the purpose not sedan car. U don't buy sedan car n goto field and complain of why is it breaking down prematurely.

Industrial area? So u live in one? why don't u just straightaway buy range rover...or Cygnus or Toyota Vigo . those r meant for 'harsh condition' you mentioned.

Besides, just that hontas rarely specialised in 4WD ,pickups and the likes and you are arguing toyota over hontas in a segment they r not particularly strong in and the forte of the toyotas? I think unfair comparison in THAT sense. Actually i for one, do live in an industrial area... but only 4 years, n the roads r REMOTELY flat (edit: and I counted there r about 10 big yellow bumps I've to drive thru , that's about 20 both ways if I go out. I do go out about twice a day.... u do the maths, alot of turnings into my house also, leftrightx5, few roundabouts. SRSLY I hate where i'm living now.) The 9yo honda city is ok with it....and TBH, I do think Msia roads are generally not of good condition but majority of hontas is ok....what do you expect? A gravel road in the whole of msia only u satisfied to say hontas car r OK? lol

I didn't even argue about hontas r more reliable than toyota but merely refute your claims of hontas r not reliable *in a fair level n logic discussion* i.e. nobody gonna drive a honda city around in plantation or pick the wrong car for the right job. There is a reason why sabah has one of the highest 4WD , pickups around in msia....3or 4  out of 10 cars on the road r pickups, 4wd n the likes because of the whole sabah is very unfriendly roads....ppl pick the right car for the right task ok. Hontas more specialised for city use n others that i didnt mentioned

Edit: and SRSLY , ppl less prefer korean cars in sabah, IDK why....so what if reliable. so far T,H,N are doing well here n still relatively reliable even if not as realiable as a Koreans....u think ppl stupiak not buy korean because they r more reliable. and there is alot more than just about reliability when the overall owning a car experience that sadly include RV as well but not the largely of it. and the korean didnt provide the holistic benefit in that sense
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You think our road condition is nice? Living in city, ofcourse going for cars for lower FC. Unless it's a diesel powered & with higher budget, can go for SUV. Bad road condition and under hot & humid weather, best is go for cars that are reliable & durable that won't wear & tear early. Also, car price expensive, have to get cars with reasonable maintenance and would last for over 10 years as we are tied to long term loan.

Range Rover is rich man's ride. If I can get that, I would have more choices to go with that budget. Use your brain next time. You are talking about less than RM100k cars here.

Sabah & Sarawak terrain are more practical to drive 4WD pickups and SUVs. You want to drive Honta in Sabah, up to you, might get you into more maintenance headache. N-brand, ever since they switch to CVT gearbox, they are now rejected by countries with harsh conditions. As for Korean made, those existing management don't know much about their products, do you think they know how to market their products? That is why Korean brands didn't do well in Sabah.

FYI, Korean brands have proven reliability & durability. Their RV has improved in models launched from 2010 onwards and the newer models are getting closer to Toyota & Honda RV. Your stupid mentality no longer works.

 

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