Hi, I'm a fresh graduate and still pondering whether to pursue Master.

I like lab work but my lecturer told me once that doing research is all about the efforts you give in which means you need to sacrifice lots of time in it. I'm thinking that if I really choose to pursue Master then sooner and later need to get a PhD as well.

So, I hope that I can get some feedback and opinion from you guys.

Oh and from my final year project experience is that you'll like go to the lab early in the morning and go back "not on time" like you have to korek more and more time for your project. I never seem to hate holiday until I'm doing my project because that means that the lab will close and no progression.

So is it like going to PhD like you probably won't have time for anything else and just to your work?

Life as a Doctoral Student? Some find the balanced lifestyle and some are struggling. At the end of the day, you will get the ratio of those with the similar experience to those without (e.g. 1 = 50/50). Making a wise decision is essential to career planning. Therefore, what is your threshold to clear or confirm your doubt?

Honestly, at the first place, why do you want to further your Master? I personally think that the only reason for one to take up MSc and PhD in Science is to go into the lecturing line. Other than that, it's almost non beneficial.

Having the same doubt too. For me, pursuing Masters and eventually PhD is somehow like a target for me to achieve in my life. From what I heard, life of postgrad students is most likely dependent to the research you will involve in, and also yourself to balance it the most

It is good to have something else (other than a career) to look forward to, and to work on. I believe that makes a person well-rounded.

The problem with graduates nowadays is they'd prefer to continue their study even without knowing what they actually want to do. In the end, having a PhD or a Master may not be beneficial anymore as it may not be related to their future job

Based on your findings, Why do graduates nowadays prefer to continue study?

1. unsure of what they want to do-thus furthering study because they are not ready to face the working world

2. naive; thinking that the higher you go, the better it'll be without considering IF this is what they'll be doing in the future.

3. study till the highest level; then only search for job without considering if that job requires this kinda qualification?


I personally never encourage my students to take this path. One should know or at least have some idea of their pathway before pursuing further. I myself took 2 years off after my Bachelor to identify exactly what I'm into, then only pursue my MSc. Took me 3 jumps of jobs in 1 year to find out.

We call this group of people "anti-visionary"... these people tend to go down the rabbit trails.

Does this [statistics] have something to with "Culture"?

This post has been edited by Critical_Fallacy: Oct 9 2013, 10:10 PM

When you said you took 2 years off, did you mean you were actually working in industry, and finally found your true calling in pursuing a MSc? Or did you mean you did not do anything at all, then spent a year with 3 different jobs, before pursuing your MSc?

Were the 2 years well-spent, in your opinion? And are you advocating your students to follow your path, or not?

I must be a confused old man for failing to comprehend what you wrote.

Meaning I do intend to pursue my MSc after my Bachelor. However, I've decided to work for 2 years just to (1) gain some working experience in the industry (2) see what exactly I want to do (3) identify which area I would want to further into (4) do I really need to take up MSc.

My third job-which is a tutoring job, answers everything. After tutoring for about 2 years I applied for a MSc relevant to my teaching. It was very well spent of course because without it, I wouldn't even know my direction.

I'm not advocating them to follow my path. Just an advice to them IF they do not know what to do next. Why do something if you are unsure if it will be useful to you in the future?

This post has been edited by LoveMeNot: Oct 10 2013, 11:38 AM

Thanks for elaborating and glad hearing you have found a pathway for yourself.

The point I would like to make is that: who amongst us actually could tell exactly what we want to do, if not after some trials and errors? If life is often that straightforward, it wouldn't be as interesting.

Yeah understood. I was a little lost too right after my degree. And that's why working is the best way to find out isn't it? I was job hopping among 3 industries within a year to know. If indeed I'm alright with my 1st job, my MSc will not really be beneficial at all already. They won't even pay higher for it.

I suppose every individual has unique reasons for pursuing MSc. Some pursue it because they like teaching (like you), some do it for monetary returns (as you had expected), some do it to further their knowledge, some do it to hone their research skills, some do a field that was never their forte, some do it because they want to stick to their comfort zone on campus, some do it because it is a natural progression from a BSc.

There is no right or wrong in wanting to pursue higher education. It is like asking why get a Mercedes, when a MyVi would suffice to bring you to point A to B, without examining the intrinsic values people attach to driving a Merc.

You got your points there. Indeed different individual has their reasons. I guess mine is applicable for those who kinda have their mind set and wants to move forward rather than dilly dallying. Also, money play an important role too. I personally don't have that much money to do it just to further my knowledge.

And thus, most of the time I'll have a long chat with my students just to understand better their reason before I advice them. Mine is not always right.


ps: you should add on this reason why people wanna pursue their Master these days : peer pressure; seeing everyone is doing it and you are left out.

Study master or phd no future. Better start career early. In sales line when u start after degree u already own a house when ppl finish master/phd. When they start buy house u already finish paying for your house.

You can have a career while pursuing postgraduate too..be it in the academic or industry line

u mean part time study? Depend on what your master/phd is about. If MBA and stuff sure ok.

But if scientific then alot ppl drop out from what i seen real life experience. Its too tough to be doing master and phd part time and take along time that u just give up naturally

One of the limitations with this reasoning is that it does not explain Why do so few sales people get rich?

In fact, WintersuN's argument seemed to rely too heavily on time comparison. It also seems that WintersuN's understanding of the postgraduate study is questionable. Like LoveMeNot, postgraduate study can be the foundation to a great career. WintersuN's interpretation of "Study master or PhD no future" tends to overlook the fact that postgraduate studies can help one's career in lots of ways, such as specialising in the field of study, increasing your salary, gaining access to industry and forging invaluable contacts, etc.

Its difficult to explain to ppl who never experience before cos if u experience study masters/phd beforeand look for job in the corporate you will know. If continue as lecturer in academic field ok la..

I have to agree with you on this. In lecturing, Master in Science is beneficial. But if you go into other field e.g. sales, MBA may be more relevant.

Also, like you said, it's almost impossible to do part time studying in science if one is working. I personally had to go let go of my job for both MSc and PhD to go full time.

I am interested to know the benchmark you are using to come up with this statement. Why would a MSc or PhD graduate face difficulty getting a job in industry if they have the right attitude, expectations, and fit for the job?

Try think in terms of employer mindset and you will know the reason

It is not only fit for the job and stuff but in hiring someone everything takes into account. Example u r phd right atitude, expectation ,etc ,etc candidate...

You are only focusing on yourself as a candidate why u r fit for the job. But u never realise besides you there are many more applying for the job and they are your competitors. As a phd you have no xperience in working field,etc etc..

The employer have many choices and they are choosing the best that suits them and it is not academic knowledge that they are looking at. Every candidate has their own unique skill sets.

This post has been edited by WintersuN: Oct 11 2013, 12:42 PM

Are you living for your employer, or are you living for yourself?

dafuq? ww are talking about getting a job now and wat r u asking..

r u gonna b your own boss after u grad or look for employment?

That is why I am interested to know why you assert that employers would not hire master or doctorate students. Going by your assumption, you might as well ask everyone to suppress their desires and ambition, and just submit themselves as slaves to whoever is merciful enough to hire them.

Im just saying master/phd no future cos just having phd doesnt make u the best candidate out there. If u r employer u will not take phd student over a degree grad who already have 5 yrs experience in the job you r looking for

Who knows? I may be an extraordinary employer looking for extraordinary employee and willing to pay extraordinary bucks. Just saying. There is no certainty in life. Just do what you want to do and be happy.

u mean having phd is extraordinary compare against degre having 5 yrs experience? I no comment on u willing pay extraordinary bucks.

Of cos can do wat u 1 2 do and b happy but not always your life in in your control. Many times u it depends on other ppl like getting a job. Unless u haf rich father then u can do wat ever u 1 and b happy. Nobody 1 employ u just ask your father open a company for u b boss.

If you think inside the box of course you are absolutely right. Going by linear thinking also you are right. You win on both counts. Congrats.

Thanks for sharing your painful experience and now I know. It's true that postgraduate studies may not be for everyone. And it's probably quite difficult for some salespeople who hold Master/PhD and DO NOT excel in their career to envision the many benefits of postgraduate study, as well as to open doors of marketing opportunity to new or related fields of career.

Good luck!

Im not purposely post here to win la but just share my opinion. If there are ppl who success have master/phd and success work in corporate in malaysia I will glad to hear his experience.

Most I know is that degree who enter Intel and from there the company give them scholarship for master/phd. That will be best case cost u already secure a job and at same time study. After finish u haf both experience and acedemic.

It's true that having a PhD doesn't necessarily make one the best candidate in a job interview. But your statement does not explain why would a PhD holder compete in Diploma/Bachelor-qualified sales jobs?

i thinku mis-track here la.. since when im talking about sales job? Im talking of getting employer with master/phd degree not care if sales or research or watever

You would at least need a masters to compete in the corporate world nowadays. For PhD, only if you're planning to go into teaching or researching line. Does not make much difference in corporate world.

aiya you all don't lari topic la. The focus here is on science related MSc or PhD. I don't think one need a Master or PhD in Science to compete in the corporate world. It is only useful if you are in the academic line.

Are you saying it is better NOT to have a Masters in order to compete better in the corporate world?

Different type of masters for different field my friend. Having a science master may not be beneficial if you are in the management line.

Do you consider a Technical Director with a PhD and an Engineering Manager with MSc not part of the Corporate Management?

In large and high-value construction projects, we prefer a project manager with PMP qualification. Half of them that I encountered have postgraduate degrees.

Yes, Ma'am!

Perhaps you think that you don't need a MSc or PhD to climb the corporate ladder?

This post has been edited by Critical_Fallacy: Oct 11 2013, 03:44 PM

IMO, prolly not a science master or PhD; but something else. This is however, based on my personal experience only. I don't see my knowledge in biomed comes in handy now since I'm in the management team.

Since Post #16 if you recall. Even if you generalize ALL kinds of job, the existing accounts fail to resolve the contradiction between PhD-qualified jobs and Bachelor-qualified jobs. Any idea?

Are you a lecturer or are you a manager actually? I'm utterly confused.

I used to lecture for almost 5 years. I'm in the management team now

Ok, so you got your masters, started lecturing after your masters, got promoted to management, and now say that your masters is useless?

It's certainly useful if I am still lecturing. But now since I'm in the management, it doesn't really help at all. I'm not saying it's useless. I'm considering taking up PhD non related to my MSc.

Yeah, I could see how your signature tagline reflects the way you tell a story.

Just saying that the time u take to pursue your masters/phd is better use at gaining experience in the job. Of course its always better to have a masters but you do not have all the time in the world. WHenu finish your masters/phd you are at an age where the employers are looking at experience to hire not some 30 year old fresh phd graduate. Yes i think it is not need msc or phd to climb corporate ladder. U need experience more than those academic qualification.



I dunno wat u trying to tok and using special english to make me look lousy

It's a good thing to hear about the usefulness of MSc in getting a promotion in management. Which division of management are you currently in?

So... What kind of PhD are you considering?

I would like to learn of your age, qualification(s) and job role. Perhaps I may make you my model of success. I am not being sarcastic. Perhaps I would write a book on how to be successful with just a degree, and name you as co-author.

The most interesting finding is that it'd become an instant best seller when you decide to write a book on "How to be successful without a degree."

Yes. Never mind that it is written by someone who has a degree or two. No one can tell the difference anyway.

It would also be an instant hit as almost everyone wants shortcuts to success. Whatever the definition of "success" is.

in my case,

1) the company did pay MSc more as compare to BSc (around rm700). eventho the BSc holdr have more experience in working, around 3years more.

2) my boss has PhD and the management always sought for his opinion if there is any issues eventho the management have more experience on the issues.

so i think to say that employer bias on what u hold and how much your experience only is not totally right. it really depends as u guys discuss.

so for TS, my advice.. if you are into education line..go straight MSc and PhD.

if you more into industrial line. go MSc then find job at related to your MSc. dont worry that u cant find job cause uve no experience. there is no such thing. most of my friends that continue MSc after degree got better offer at international company. MSc part time also not bad. only if you willing to lose ur weekend for 1-2years max.

then later go for Industrial PhD if you dont mind staying at that company until u finish PhD la (bonded)...at the end of the day u have experience and PhD.

its not easy. but lose some. gain some

goodluck

yeah yeah.. laugh at me la.. how about u write a book how to be successful with a master/phd in malaysia and i name u as co author

I am neither successful nor wise enough to write such a book. That is why I am very excited to read people's comments on their sure-win recipes for success.

This post has been edited by Starbucki: Oct 11 2013, 04:54 PM

i think u abit mis-track. I never say i sure-win. Just saying that master/phd got no future in malaysia corporate.

You are of course entitled to your opinion and I am not bound to agree with it. Can bo.

I've already come up with a good book title!

PhD Boss, BSc Boss: What the PhD Teach Their Workers About Success--That the Bachelors and the Masters Do Not!

Good one.

My retard book will be called:

"Permanent Head Damage? Better than BullSchitters and MSchmucks!"

This post has been edited by Starbucki: Oct 11 2013, 05:16 PM

let me get the point straight to you.. in research,giving 101% does not guarantee you will be successful..it is unlike taking an exam, whereby u study hard+smart, BOM! there it goes, u ace it that exam. u need luck, luck and luck, and 1 thing that tends to bug many of us is..we are so accustomed to getting a right answer..but this is not the case in science research..it makes u feel stupid.

It depends on where you apply. Over here, the support department for research e.g. Bioinformatics Unit, Microscopy unit only hire people with master/phd as research support staff. And good bioinformaticians with specific skills are always being searched for to fill a position in a project for 2-3 years, with good benefits.

As far as I know, local unis don't have this level of support for the staff. They usually higher basic degree ppl to fill in staff positions like technicians or lab assistants. Postgrad degrees only help if you want to apply as lecturer.

If you're talking about locally, then it's a bit harder because the industry is not fully geared towards basic r&d. Still, there are some research institutues like Carif, Sime Darby etc that might pay more for good degrees. If you're applying for positions in sales with those bioscience distributors, then having a Msc/Phd will have little benefit.

Ya la u guys master phd ppl always think u all very smart la... Thats the problem wif u guys got attitude problem not willing to learn think self already very smart than other pppl.

Wif this attitude where u work also sure will problem.

Most adults probably understand that the book title is for comic relief; a parody of Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad, Poor Dad: What the Rich Teach Their Kids About Money--That the Poor and the Middle Class Do Not! Do you mean Robert Kiyosaki has attitude problem too?

I'm not both and I don't know, but since you claimed that, have you found that so-called “attitude problem” with ALL Masters & PhD people in your life in every possible circumstance? Mind you, LoveMeNot has a Master's degree. By your claim, if everyone had that belief, then would it be sensible to say these Masters & PhD people would never willing to continue learning at the postgraduate level in the first place?

So when you shared that honestly to us in earlier post but now ranting on attitude problem, would it be fair to say that your “attitude theory” made you against yourself? My advice: Don't let your mind wander. It's way too small to be outside by itself.

Hmmm... why are you clustering all of us in the same boat just because the ones you have encountered sucks big time?

Fyi I personally never think that I'm smart. In fact I think I'm stupid. How?

Yes, Msc and PhD are useful in the academic line. Some companies look for these qualifications as well, but not much. More emphases were being put into work experience. Taking Msc and PhD is like upgrading yourself to have higher qualifications and better knowledge in certain fields/topics/sections.

This very much sums it up. Of course, it goes back again to the line of work and what you have done during your Master or PhD program. For example, if you're in engineering, getting a Master degree or a PhD in Korea or Japan will somehow give you "work" experience. As the graduate students more often than not participate in lab projects, which actually comes from the industry via the government. If you're studying in US, Master degree is basically classes all over again, tho of course with more specific and in-depth lessons.

Sacrificing 4 years for a PhD will eventually pay for itself in the long run. Having a PhD distinguishes yourself from the pack, whether or not the PhD is related to your career. It opens doors to senior management or policy-making roles in many situations where a a bachelor's degree isn't enough. Put simply, a PhD unlocks potential and options and tells people you are capable of solving problems and thinking critically, both of which are transferable generic skills. I'd rather have a thought-altering, career-changing, attitude-shaping PhD than get a 4 year entry-level start to a 40 year career. Of course, it is arguably more desirable if your PhD is somewhat related to your field