Hi there.

What does it takes to be a underwriter in terms of character (someone who has patience? loves detail work?) and qualification?



This post has been edited by moOn_uNit: Jun 2 2006, 10:39 AM

underwriter for the assurance job 1 ?

Underwriters working in insurance company, for example Prudential.

This post has been edited by moOn_uNit: Jun 2 2006, 11:10 AM

that depends.... life or general insurance?..... if Prudential normally life, unless you're talking about the new islamic tie-up with HLA.

if general, needs strong product knowledge in terms of scope of insurance coverage, its exclusions, applicable clauses and such. must be damn good in balancing between loading, exclusion and excess.

if life insurance, need to have some actuarial knowledge and lots of product knowledge in terms of coverage and exposure. basically your job is to asses the application and categorise the applicant in what risk class (bad, good, preferred, moral hazard) and whether to accept the proposal or impose certain restrictions or requirements (medical checkup, stress test, loading, lower sum insured, etc) and finally to offer the proposer with a plan at a certain premium.

wallah.

What is the minimum qualification to enter this industry?
Thx in advance.

Did anyone know of or work as a life insurance underwriter??is it an interesting job?

for life underwriter...Biology graduated or with medical knowledge background canditate, if you got LOMA certificate then that's better!!

An underwriter must of course know the workarounds of law(insurance policies) and this is best if you have a degree which is associated with law in whatever type of insurance policy that your employer wants.

* Possess a recognized degree, preferably in Statistics, Mathematics, Business
Studies, Computer Science OR professional life insurance qualification
* Experience in system testing is an added advantage
* Good analytical and problem solving skills
* Strong communication skills in both written and spoken English

Erm is it too late to post here? hehe

Ok, underwriter.. what's this about? first, my background: grad with biomed degree, working as a medical underwriter for two years with a Life Insurance Company. When I first joined this company, I have no prior knowledge about insurance. The insurance I know is you pay money, you get protection and might earn some money in terms of bonus etc. Depends on company whether it's a general or a life insurance company, they will need different requirement for potential employee. What I'm talking here is purely on Life Insurance, not about general insurance
First, preferably require a bio-related degree: biomed/biochem especially. What you don't know about insurance, they will have internal training for you but about the Life Sciences, they can't teach you much. Gone are the days when anyone can become underwriter. Now when the market is getting competitive, they need someone who has bio-related background so that the new staff can learn faster as he/she already familiar with the science/medical term.
My starting salary is slightly over RM2K, not inclusive of bonus and OT.
Life of an underwriter..hmm tricky question.. Depends on company also. If you work with a company which practise manual system, then you can leave office sharp-sharp after office hour but you need to bring back the work to do (if you haven't finish your work) as manual system means paper and pen. If your company use computerised system, you need to stay in the office till your work finish. Office hour can drag till 12-13 hrs daily, depends on the volume of cases you need to process especially during month-end or year-end when the income of the agent depends on the number of cases they manage to send in and get processed. So you might end up sitting in front of pc for 10-11 hrs daily (minus out lunch and toilet break). Kinda passive work. If you like to walk around, talk to people, this job is definitely a no-no for you
Like what alqa mentioned, you need to have product knowledge and actuarial knowledge, but to me medical knowledge is equally important if not more important than the first two. This is because the actuarial and product specifications are dead stuff, meaning they are fixed in black and white. We just learn and refer to the guidelines/paper. However, it's different when comes to medical/health as different people though same age, gender, race, etc can have a whole lot of variety of term condition. Even though two people might have the same condition like hypertension, these two could have different loadings as we need to consider other variables like fat or not, got raised cholesterol or not, got diabetes or not etc. Hence we require the medical knowledge to help us to assess the conditions accordingly.
We do have guidelines but these guidelines are just for reference, not to be used as ultimate truth as these guidelines cannot possibly cover each and every combinations of health conditions.
Apart from the medical conditions as declared by client, we also need to determine whether the client is telling the truth or not and need to know where to seek out additional information about the client's condition. So kinda a treasure hunter cum private investigator too. Kinda fun too...and you get the chance to encounter a lot of weird and funny health declarations.
To me, this job is still okay but not many guys can last long as medical underwriter as this job could be boring to guys. I think male: female under writer is 7:3.

prepare to work really hard ..can be as early as 7.30 am right up to 10.00pm ..if you r not the type of fella that are willingly to sacrifice your time for your work..then duneed la... ull be staring at the pc for over 12 hours...your life is basically you and the pc... i quit cause i think its stupid.. pay is good..but no life...

Yep, agreed with LoveMeNot on the come in the morning part and staring at the pc part. I actually start my day from 6.30am. About whether no life or not, it's subject to individual preference, wouldn't discuss much about that. Cheers

i doubt the pay is good part, if u say pay = time working , may be...
no life, memang no life.....

the pay is only good if u work ur as* around the clock.

and yeah agree with tatmeng, life or no life, its up to you..some people may enjoy it n some may not..
but one thing i can say it, 2 mata can become 4 mata....really can juling straight your eyes la...

This post has been edited by LoveMeNot: Jun 2 2007, 04:37 PM

i still don quite agree, even if u work OT everyday, how much is the Max can earn from the company?
performance bonus?

with 6 months experience, basic salary and OT, one can earn up to 3k. i guess its quite reasonable for a newly grad..
but long term, im not too sure.

100% agreed. May be can use as stepping stones and earn some savings before jump to other jobs. If other jobs doesn't turn out so good, can come back to this industry. At least can put in the resume "X years of experience"

Haha replies are from 2 or 3 persons only..not many lah. Honestly speaking, being an underwriter really takes away a lot of your weekdays time. If you are still single, like me then may be still okay. If you have gf, then where got time for dating or other activities because by the time you finish work, you'll be dead tired. Wait, may be that's the reason why I'm still single okay okay just a cold joke... I believe there are other jobs which are also very time-consuming like auditor but underwriter is definitely in this category. Subject to individual preference

Pay....hmm very subjective also whether it's good or not but most company will pay slightly above RM2K. I'm not so sure about general insurance company though. The information I provided is mainly on life insurance.
Benefit..hmm.. typical benefits as in every MNC? increment will be about RM100-200 per year, depends on your performance.
Loss adjuster, kinda dangerous job especially when dealing with car accident. My father's friend is a workshop owner and he said most of the time they will "co-operate" with the loss adjuster to make a bigger claim like taking pictures from another damaged vehicle, knock a few more dents to it etc. If that loss adjuster doesn't want to "co-operate" siap lah dia... haha

for a biomed grad, there are more better career path u can choose other than the office or labwork. try not to lock urself too long in the office, get some outdoor explosure.

if i hav to OT everyday to get 3K , i might as well use my time spent on OT to do side business / MLM/ trade business.

just my 2cents....

Nope, it's not a waste if you work as a medical underwriter. If work as a general insurance underwriter, that's lain cerita lah.

You see, when underwriting life/health insurance, we need to know a great deal about the basic science of the medical conditions as we read client's declaration, medical check-up report, lab report, MRI/Echocardiogram/X-ray/Ultrasound/ECG/EEG report, Dr's letter etc and assess the condition after gathering all these pieces of data.

However, graduating from biomed or other related bio courses only give us an advantage in learning the skills required in medical underwriting. Actually any Ali, Bala, Chong can become medical underwriter and excel in this field regardless of the courses taken in university. However, currently most companies will prefer those from bio-related background, easier to train as they are familiar with the terms/jargon used in medical reports.

No exams (as in getting license from governing body) required to become underwriter but most company will have internal exams/training before they give you authority to approve the contract/business on company behalf. That's why most insurance agent don't like underwriter. If underwriter say No, then they'll loose their business (together with their commission) but they always can appeal through their manager.

Still, it's up to individual preference whether this is a good job or not. Like bro yewkhuay is very successful in the day job and also in side business/MLM but some people don't like to do side business/MLM.

My stand is "you are free to choose but be prepare to bear the consequence". A man's meat is another man's poison (or is it the other way round?

General underwriter not so sure, sorry can't help you in this.

Agents need to take exams because they are governed by Bank Negara in order to protect the rights of customer, to prevent the customer from being cheated etc

Underwriter is hired mainly to safeguard the interest of the company. If we charge them more (meaning higher loadings) the customers have the rights not to buy from us and go to another company. Therefore whatever we do, won't harm the customers.

Haha... given enough time anyone also can both the medical term and the insurance terms. However, learning the medical terms is just the beginning. The next thing is to connect the different conditions together, correlate the clinical findings with the laboratory findings, client's medical history etc and decide. That's the hardest part and I'm still learning..haha.. Hence, medical underwriting is not an exact science as 1+1 doesn't equals to 2 here. It's more like a mixture of art and science. Sounds abstract eh?

for your information, basic salary for executive underwriter in prudential, without any experience, newly grad, is rm1900. depending on how fast you catch up during the probationary period (you have to attend classes), can be as fast as 3 months right up to 6 months. after confirm, it is increase to rm2100.

also, the reason why a biomed. graduates choose to work as an underwriter, it is because the job involves interpretation of medical results, usually the diagnostic part of it such as lab reports.

and in prudential, there are tests that one need to take before you can actually proceed to a higher level. everyday, you'll be given case studies to be solve. your performance during the probationary period is mostly depending on how well you solve the cases.

This post has been edited by LoveMeNot: Jun 3 2007, 09:24 PM

RM1900 is ok la. Depends on you spend it only. If you want to drive big car, dress from head to toe all branded stuff, buy expensive gift for your girls, go clubbing every weekends, go dating eat candle-light dinner every day, etc double that amount also not enough lah. I guess that's one problem with young people (including myself) nowadays. We only look into how much we earn but we don't care how much we spend. No wonder so many people "die" because of credit cards debts. IMHO, pay is important but not the only thing which is important. How much you spend is also important.
RM1900-2100 is pretty decent to me

hello guys..
i currently undergraduate from a private university college(will upgrade to university soon) taking Bachelor(hons) in Biomedicine and will graduate on 2009..
i kinda interested with the job, mainly becos the pay.. it is a very good pay for a fresh graduate compared to other courses. and i think if we work in the lab, the initial pay is around rm1.5k-1.8k...
can someone give some info to me the actual requirements for this position?
how much cgpa is required to get this position...and do we(biomedical graduates) face competition for this position from other courses?

biotech its better to go overseas to find work .....

Hi,
looks like this thread is almost dead as i can only see 2 person discussing on the life of being an underwriter.
I am also an underwriter myself and have been in the industry for 2yrs...and i can say that all the facts has been given by tatmeng and lovemenot but the part on the OT, bonus and salary side really depends on which company u r working for...my company is a bit stinggy on this aspect... :,( which causes me to work like a cow but still earning only peanuts...

Act i am an underwriter too. I agree wit u ahwai. d salary is low n need to do a lot of OT. yearly increment little onli. faint. wondering whether ur comp paying lower or my company......jus a bit curious, wat is ur comp paying for u/w position?

any1 here is doing underwriter in Kurnia?
how's the pay?
still rm1.9k?

I wonder after 2 years as an underwriter, after that you feel boring and want to change a new job, what other job you can choose?
I received an offer from an insurance company for this position, so i am abit worried now whether to accept the offer onot. sigh....
Coz, I still hope that I can get PhD degree.

hi people. it sounds interesting to be an underwriter... to be a writer i think they need to be really good at what they think and want to say through words. haha, i don't think i'm good enough to be one. anyway, i saw this writing job that really caught my attention! I log on to their site and it totally blew me away. but this company is in penang. maybe if u r still looking for a career in writing, u might be interested to check out the creative writer's position at www.studeografix.com/joinus and you’ll know what I mean - good luck

I think the writing u mention in the web is not similar to underwriter job.... jz my opinion.
Quite funny site

hi i'm a fresh grad with a degree in bioinformatics...kinda interested in underwriting...can somebody tell me wat's the difference between underwriter in an life insurance company and underwriter in life insurance company's service hub? are they doing the same thing? which one is better?thanks in advance^^

hihi~~
juz came bc to this forum n found someone replied to my post..
let's c...ur question was regarding the salary..currently for fresh grad is rm2100 frm what i heard...
i started working in this job 2yrs back and the starting pay was different...
the increment has been fixed basically so not much hope on getting a sudden increase in the basic salary..haha...
so which company u working in?

May i know who can gv comment on general insurance underwriter job?

I'm fresh graduate form biomed, still struggling whether want apply for underwriter job or not since my communication skills in English (written and spoken) not strong...

"Mei13", are yu a Univ graduate? With bad English proficiency? Hmmm...what really happened to our Education System?

Regards, Joey

Don't worry Mei13. You still can learn while you on the job.
As long u get the job and willing to learn, that's ok already. It means your employer have confidence in you.
Btw, may I know which company u want to apply? can reply through PM if u want to be "privacy"

I got 2 years working in Bank, do I qualify to become an underwriter?

er most likely they will put you at entry level medical underwriter. Unless you are planning to join as financial underwrite (non-insurance related financial company), then your 2-year experience should be enough.

may i know with 3 yrs exp in med underwriting.. we can get how much for salary?

im now working in POS department of an insurance company...actually i would like to become an underwriter, but i dunno how to apply for it as i cant see any vacancy in jobstreet....

my advise is.. dont expect much unless ure going for managerial position

can anyone advise on which company to choose as a stepping stone for a freshie? GE or Pru as a medical underwriter, got offer from both companies, the pay for GE is slightly lower than Pru
but regardless of the pay, which is better?

thanks in advance..

Stepping stone? Have you consider your milage when you have stepped on that stone you choose.
Resume Path 1 : 3 years Medical U/W, GEA
Resume Path 2 : 3 years Medical U/W, Pru Ins

Tell me do you see a difference?

From a HR prespective there is no difference. For an insurance industry prespective GE hold a small bit of extra weight because GE is a more establish company in Malaysia. I guess that is why they pay a little lower.

Since you said stepping stone, dont exceed 3 years. There would be no difference for both HR and industry precpective.

This post has been edited by faceless: Oct 5 2010, 10:21 AM

Thanks for your reply.
I've just called to Pru and accepted the offer.

For me I think it makes no difference as for freshie, everything has to be restarted, both places provide training, it is depends on myself whether I can cope with it and absorb as much as I can.

At last, I chose a better pay company, no regrets, even if I did, that's my choice at 1st, no blames..

This post has been edited by summercamguy: Oct 5 2010, 12:30 PM

Good luck to to you. In 3 years you should know almost 90% of the job.

i am interested in this medical underwriting field. May i know the starting paid by prudential and GE for a fresh graduate??

http://www.courses-careers.com/undergradua...nderwriter.html

Underwriters weigh up many factors as they try to decide whether applications for insurance should be accepted, at what price and under what special terms, if any. Much of the job is about trying to minimise any financial loss on the part of the insurance company, so there is a mixture of pressure and accountability, not to mention a significant amount of skill and personal judgement.

At the same time, underwriters must make sure that premiums are competitive enough to attract and keep customers but sufficient to cover the potential losses from settling claims.

Entry requirements vary between employers and depend on the entry route. Underwriting requires good numerical and communication skills. As a minimum, employers usually expect level 2 qualifications, such as GCSEs (A*-C) or equivalent, in English or maths. The Diploma in business, administration and finance may be relevant for this area of work.

Some entrants start out as insurance technicians, underwriting assistants or claims handlers. Careers at this level can be accessed via the Apprenticeship in providing financial services, which offers pathways in general insurance, including:
- Level 2 Apprenticeship in providing financial services - no formal academic entry requirements
- Level 3 Advanced Apprenticeship in providing financial services - entry with Level 2 qualifications, such as completion of the Apprenticeship or GCSEs (A*-C), or equivalent

Both Apprenticeship programmes contain units from the Certificate in Insurance, making up the technical certificate element.

Training is often in-house, with around two years spent working alongside senior underwriters as you learn about claims, accounting and investment insurance processes. This may be followed by a further three years training in a specialist risk area.

During training, you would normally work towards industry-specific professional qualifications, choosing units of study relevant to underwriting and a specific insurance function, such as marine, commercial or general insurance. The professional qualifications undertaken depend to some extent on your employer and your personal abilities, but quite often start at the Chartered Insurance Institute (CII) Certificate level and progress upwards as follows:
- CII Certificate in Insurance
- CII Diploma in Insurance
- CII Advanced Diploma in Insurance, leading to Associate membership of the CII (ACII)

Senior underwriters are normally expected to achieve ACII status. Study can be by distance learning, online learning, and full-time and part-time study, including day release, block release and evening classes.

Underwriters working in the London Market must also complete the Lloyd's and London Market Introductory Test (LLMIT). This provides an introduction to working in the London Market, covering the roles and working practices of brokers, Lloyd's underwriters and insurance companies.

just sharing...

Malaysia has its own accreditation body which is called MII or Malaysian Insurance Institute..those who are working in insurance industry do not have to take CII paper instead they can take MII papers which were tweaked to suit Malaysian market..

u mean this http://insurance.com.my/
r from the industry ?

Yeah..that's the one..certification is tailored to local need..but you might want to take international cert to get fellowship level..

http://www.cii.co.uk/app/news/default.aspx?endstem=1&id=1018

The CII has launched a new assessment method that allows candidates to utilise their previous experience to achieve an Advanced Diploma in Insurance (ACII).

The Advanced Diploma in Insurance demonstrates an applied level of learning. The experiential prior learning route is only suitable for experienced practitioners operating at senior executive level as it based on recognition of prior learning.

The premise is that the candidate already has the level of insurance knowledge required for the Advanced Diploma in Insurance. The CII takes into account candidates’ previous qualifications and evidence from their day to day work, roles and responsibilities. These combine with a verbal assessment, and are used to assess whether the candidate has reached Advanced Diploma standard.

The experiential prior learning route involves two stages of assessment by the CII:

1. Assessment of the candidate’s application.
2. A half day assessor interview where candidates will be individually assessed by an independent assessor on specific learning outcomes.

Successful completion results in an award of the Advanced Diploma in Insurance.

sux .. they making it easier to get the tittle now



This post has been edited by ivanswk: Aug 24 2011, 11:09 AM

i got 1 question, if a client report from doctor is perennial rhinitis....
will company fully accept? or is loading, or decline for that?
anybody got the guideliness? thank you

me not a life uw,
anyway can i make a guess since u should know the answer by now ?
should be fully acceptance
or acceptance with exclusion of complication from the above illness
if can pm me your approach ? thanks

because my guideliness here is exclude for the upper respiratory system. thats why i m looking if there is any other life company guideliness that will fully accept for this case.

you are general UW? may i know which company? mayb pm me?
thanks.

another option is do a postpone and ask the applicant to apply after 6 month
the illness u mention is not life threatening thou,
u might want to discuss with your chief

marine UW, in SG, anychance u pursuing your FLMI currently ?

Erm...are you malaysian?
may i know what mean by FLMI...
for the case, company only exclude for the medical coverage. all life, 36 criticall is fully accepted.
even send to re-insurer, the result is the same...

yes, malaysian
the IT professional got their CCNA, PMP, SAP

for life underwriter u have FLMI
http://www.loma.org/learn/learners/designations/flmi.aspx
then u combo with FLHC
http://www.claim.org/index.htm

then u become a good life uw , how long in the industry ?

To become a good life uw, not necessary to get those professional certificates. Even if you have ALU, doesn't meet that you have a good underwriting skills. Yeah, may be can impress the HR ppl a bit but won't get you far.

Life underwriting field in Malaysia is very small. Those HOD and/or chief uw basically knows each others and if you are a good uw, your reputation is good enough for you to get higher salary if you want to switch company.

If you are so infamous, then perhaps may be you need to change field or go to another countries.

Guidelines is just a guidelines. They cannot cover A-Z of the multiple scenario which we face daily. The most important thing is know out to think and reason it out.

Getting an underwriting decision is just the first step. Getting your agent and/or client to accept your decision is the most difficult part.

If they don't accept your decision-> no business-> company cannot make money-> no salary/bonus-> no job.

Learn how to be a businessman but safeguards the interest of the rest of the policyholders. Anyway, we are in risk-taking business. Often time, there's no right or wrong in underwriting decision but of course, sometimes we made bad decision also.

To err is human

it is always good to hear POV from another UW ,
good reputation must be working very well for u hehe..

your last sentence ouch....
there is a large community of malaysian insurance pro in singapore, now only i know they are infamous

so sorry, i didnt mentioned earlier, i am actually agent.
just trying to hep my client to search to see if any company can fully accept his case.
sorry for inconvenient.

bro is just a forum, u dun need to apologize
u did the right thing anyway, best interest for your client

This post has been edited by ivanswk: Sep 1 2011, 11:51 AM

Sorry, bro, I guess my last sentence is too general and opened for different interpretations.
A lot of my friends are working in Sg and they are very good underwriters.

There are many reasons why someone might want to leave for another country. Better income, better future, more things to learn etc.

Being infamous is just one of the infinite reasons out there. Hope you don't "generalise" the whole statement.

The road is still very long to me as compared to others whom I met along the way. The future is bright as long as we keep learning and don't mind the long hours

hehe, ok bro...
i m just back from singapore nia....
going cityhall, ion orchard, hougang mall to meet clients....
really a lot shopping there~

hi guys, sorry for bumping an old topic, but i didnt feel appropriate to create a new one for a simple question.

the question is, i got job offer as medical underwriter for rm2700. do u think it's a good offer? how about futuree career development for underwriters? easy to climb corporate ladder or is it a dead-end job?

wow, sounds scary job...

got what field can choose ?

i am think of taking DMII (Diploma of The Malaysian Insurance Institute).

Im not in insurance line but would like to advance my career into risk engineering.

Wonder can we self study for exam or better register for full time program?